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Next-Gen PS5 & XSX |OT| Console tEch threaD

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CrustyBritches

Gold Member
It's called cross buy on PlayStation. Any 3rd part has had access to it and it's up to publishers to allow it. If cyberpunk doesn't support it, it's because CDPR chose not to.
Cross buy and Play Anywhere sound similar. Do we expect Sony to offer Cross Buy on their 1st-party games from PS4 to PS5 like MS is doing? I think they will as that's a great feature, but I haven't found anything definitive during my, admittedly, casual search.
 

FranXico

Member
Cross buy and Play Anywhere sound similar. Do we expect Sony to offer Cross Buy on their 1st-party games from PS4 to PS5 like MS is doing? I think they will as that's a great feature, but I haven't found anything definitive during my, admittedly, casual search.
They did this before for some PS3/PS4 games.
 
GitHub Facts haven’t changed, nice trolling though. You, Rusco, GamerNyc and the ilk can keep it up all you like. The presumed facts have not changed.

hqdefault.jpg

Since you are poking me, even when I had you on ignore for weeks and I have never engaged with you before...

I am proud to announce you "My most powerful meme ever made" ;)

RkZUdn0.gif
 

geordiemp

Member
But that's so low for a PS5 Pro. Not even a 2x increase over base PS5, while PS4 Pro was a 2.3x jump over the base. And if the consensus is that gamers want power, would not the early adopters just gravitate to the Pro model? Which would make manufacturing the base unit essentially a waste of resources? And that's provided a PS5 Pro is even made in sufficient quantities of a ratio relative to the base system, it's just too much that could go wrong for a PS5 Pro at launch.

It's not quite the same situation as Lockhart/XSX where the latter looks like it'll be a 3x increase over the former (and where we don't even know Lockhart's form factor; it could be a portable-esque hybrid device for all we know). Who wouldn't prefer a 2023 PS5 Pro with 22TF - 24TF RDNA3/RDNA4 and 32GB HBM3? I'm not even joking when I say that; those could actually be the specs for a 2023 PS5 Pro.

A Pro model right at launch when the logistics don't make any sense for one no matter where base PS5 actually lands specs-wise (because we already know the lowest worst-case range, which is still much higher than Lockhart's peak).

Ah, but what if the base Ps5 needs a minimum of 36 CU to be back compatible with Ps4 pro games ? So your stuck with 8.x TF and a Pro model in Therory.

Pro model they can shoot for the roof (if it exists).

This makes marketing sense, as even Sony themselves were surprised how many xbox fans moved to the Ps4 because of its strength over OG Xbox.

Sony even said the pro was not just for 4K CB but also to tempt some users away from PC, although Xbox X came out a year later.

So, I can see logic in 8 and 13 from a business standpoint, if they exist I know nothing, if Sony go less than XsX they potentially loose some of those high end purchasers who want hight quality 3rd party gaming (who buy lots of games)
 
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husomc

Member
It depends on gender, females start puberty between 8-13:

"Girls usually begin puberty between the ages of 8 and 13 years old."


For once...

3r2aey.jpg
so did BGs BGs give us a potential range from 8TF - 16TF ? 🤦‍♂️ the only thing he confirmed for sure is that it's not 9.X
 
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FeiRR

Banned
For what I understood, crossbuy impose you to download an entire different game, smart delivery should let you download just the files that you need, basically adapting the game that you have, not giving you another version. Is basically a space saver.
Digital games are archives of compressed files. If you have a cross-buy (or insert any other fancy name) game, the store app (website) will check your platform ID (user-agent in case of a browser) and serve you the correct version. It's basically two lines of simple scripting code, nothing more. You're not downloading anything else than you need, just your version of the game. It may have almost all files identical to the other version, save for the executable but it's not your concern.

Steam has it (about two thirds of the games I bought years ago for PC show up in the Steam app on OSX now), Google Play Store has it (checks your Android hardware and serves you the right version if it's available). There are probably more vendors that have it. Microsoft also had it as Xbox Play Anywhere. Now they invented a new fancy name just because they like inventing fancy names to fool simple minds.
 

Sosokrates

Report me if I continue to console war
A 9.2tf ps5 and a 13tf PS5 pro makes no sense, the standard ps5 would be like 1700p and the pro would be 4k, it's not a big enough difference if everything else is the same I doubht even the 9.2 model would be able to be $399.
 

Roronoa Zoro

Gold Member
If PS5 is indeed more powerfull than SeX, then why Sony don't tell us just the teraflops number to destroy the competition ? Their silence just play perfectly for Microsoft, and we got plenty of shitty articles like: 9,2 vs 12.
Sony doesn't reveal when MS makes them. Sony reveals when they feel like it. Remember they didn't outright deny DRM until E3 last time and many people thought theyd have it after the Xbox reveal

They may be 9.2 but hey it wouldn't be because of the silence it's because that's what they planned
 
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Roronoa Zoro

Gold Member
A 9.2tf ps5 and a 13tf PS5 pro makes no sense, the standard ps5 would be like 1700p and the pro would be 4k, it's not a big enough difference if everything else is the same I doubht even the 9.2 model would be able to be $399.
Remember the $100 difference in price for different HDD sizes?
 

Neo Blaster

Member
Ah, but what if the base Ps5 needs a minimum of 36 CU to be back compatible with Ps4 pro games ? So your stuck with 8.x TF and a Pro model in Therory.

Pro model they can shoot for the roof (if it exists).

This makes marketing sense, as even Sony themselves were surprised how many xbox fans moved to the Ps4 because of its strength over OG Xbox.

Sony even said the pro was not just for 4K CB but also to tempt some users away from PC, although Xbox X came out a year later.

So, I can see logic in 8 and 13 from a business standpoint, if they exist I know nothing, if Sony go less than XsX they potentially loose some of those high end purchasers who want hight quality 3rd party gaming (who buy lots of games)
PS4 pro used a butterfly design(18+18=36) to be backwards compatible to base PS4, why can't they do the same with a third CU bank(18+18+18=54) for PS5?
 

geordiemp

Member
A 9.2tf ps5 and a 13tf PS5 pro makes no sense, the standard ps5 would be like 1700p and the pro would be 4k, it's not a big enough difference if everything else is the same I doubht even the 9.2 model would be able to be $399.

A 8-9 TF base does make sense for back compatability if they need 36 CU minimum for ps4pro.
 

llien

Banned

If true, this is an admission of 'yeah, we bet on 9-10TF" on Sony side. (please don't get me dragged into console wars, I hate both sides)



This is one hell of a dangerous shit that can leave people paralyzed for life, this isn't funny.
 
When we talk 8-9TF base for BC, are we talking strictly to emulate it or offer it with enhancements(i.e. resolution and framerate improvements)? I assume the SSD would reduce the load times anyway. They already do that on PS4.
 

Bo_Hazem

Banned
If PS5 is indeed more powerfull than SeX, then why Sony don't tell us just the teraflops number to destroy the competition ? Their silence just play perfectly for Microsoft, and we got plenty of shitty articles like: 9,2 vs 12.

Probably because they're sharing the same/similar chip, and want to get the last squeeze with their expensive cooling method without giving enough gap for Xbox to respond.
 

splattered

Member
Wrong. Cross-buy extended across console generations too. Some games were even cross-buy PS3+PS4+PSVita.

Ah ok I see... so if someone developed a ps3 game the only thing missing to make it play on the ps4 was a few files needing to be downloaded so it worked on the ps4? And the Vita?

No, cross buy is not the same as smart delivery.

Smart delivery is just making sure you get all of the enhancement files for the XsX console without being charged for upgrades or as a whole new repackaged game when all it really would have taken was some patching to get it working and upgraded.

Because the ps3, ps4, and ps vita are all totally different system architectures it shouldn't be considered the same thing.

The Last of Us was released on ps3 first and then ps4 a year later they released it as a ps4 "enhanced" version at full price. That's why BC with at least the previous generation will be important going forward and something like Smart Delivery will make sure you dont have to buy the game multiple times to play the latest greatest version.

What we really need to hear from Sony this year is a guarantee "Yes, please buy the ps4 versions of TLOU2 or Ghosts at launch, and we will enhance it for you holiday 2020 at no extra cost"
 

JLMC469

Banned
So when Tuesday comes and nothing gets announced you guys expect something the following week? And instead of 13 tflops is going to be 14 right?
 
Probably because they're sharing the same/similar chip, and want to get the last squeeze with their expensive cooling method without giving enough gap for Xbox to respond.
Have you seen Microsoft's console?

XboxSeriesXHERO.jpg


What better cooling method could Sony have than a design which is not only shaped like this but larger? Also who is to say Microsoft can't just overclock their system to match or exceed it? They overclocked the Xbox One beyond its base frequencies with absolutely no thermal or noise penalty, and they said Series X is as silent as the Xbox One X so they clearly have headroom.
 
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Bo_Hazem

Banned
Have you seen Microsoft's console?

XboxSeriesXHERO.jpg


What better cooling method could Sony have than a design which is not only shaped like this but larger? Also who is to say Microsoft can't just overclock their system to match or exceed it? They overclocked the Xbox One beyond its base frequencies with absolutely no thermal or noise penalty, and they said Series X is as silent as the Xbox One X so they clearly have headroom.

They can, that's why Sony is "silent". You could always make smarter, efficient cooling on different forms. In that case, we would've not even seen this:

Acer-Predator-Triton-500-1340x754.jpg


Has RTX 2080. PS5 devkit is already much more larger and has insane amount of vents to suck in cool air and breathe out heat.
 
They can't launch a PS5 Pro in 2020 because there is not a process fab that can produce a 20TF GPU.

The idea that Sony would launch both a 8TF GPU and a more powerful one is ridiculous. It would mean that all of their developers would base their games on the weaker of the two systems.

I actually HATE the fact that Sony launched the PS4 Pro. It screwed up the whole system of generational leaps.
 

Norse

Member
if sony releases 2 ps5 systems at different specs, and ms does the same, which pro version do i get and which base system do i get?
 

Gudji

Member

AMD as a company…strongly believes in the value and capability of raytracing. RDNA 2, the next-gen, will support raytracing. Both the next-gen Xbox and PlayStation will support hardware raytracing with Radeon natively. We will be sure to have the content that gamers can actually use to run on those GPUs

We believe in our raytracing, and we will have it when the time is right.

Mithun Chandrashekhar, Product Management Lead, AMD
 
They can, that's why Sony is "silent". You could always make smarter, efficient cooling on different forms. In that case, we would've not even seen this:

Acer-Predator-Triton-500-1340x754.jpg


Has RTX 2080. PS5 devkit is already much more larger and has insane amount of vents to suck in cool air and breathe out heat.
Laptops in general are loud and hot, and gaming laptops are notoriously loud and hot.

mjpls.png
 

ANIMAL1975

Member
What's the difference between Xbox's audio ray tracing and PS5's 3d audio + hw-based ray tracing combo?
Nobody knows in here.

Probably both the same shit at the end of the day.
The only difference i can get out of Cernys Wired interview is the custom unit for 3D sound, pointing to a dedicated chip maybe, and not the use of the GPU itself, if by the AMD chip they are referring to the APU _ here's the exact quote:
The AMD chip also includes a custom unit for 3D audio that Cerny thinks will redefine what sound can do in a videogame. “As a gamer,” he says, “it's been a little bit of a frustration that audio did not change too much between PlayStation 3 and PlayStation 4. With the next console the dream is to show how dramatically different the audio experience can be when we apply significant amounts of hardware horsepower to it.”

But in the end it's like Deep is saying, and only when the two systems come out
and get all torn apart by tech sites, we will get the answers to that and other questions still unknown.

I mean yes, everything fine and dandy for me, but are we really even thinking about BGs hinting at 13 TF by examining the term "puberty"? A Spanish guy armed with Google Translator? Like, REALLY? What is he, some NeoGAF Edward Nigma angry with Nolan's trilogy? Don't overthink your overthinking at the very least.
Well to be fair Spanish people get puberty too, i know we are neighbors, and the Spanish word for it is 'pubertad' _ that's actually pretty similar to the English don't you think?
I'm not arguing that it was really BGs BGs intention to make that subtle imply, i know people get carried away for more than once by things he said and look something else... but this time that's a short and simple post, with a tease that could be really intentional.

Why do you say that? I think it's a nice feature. I just wonder if many cross platform games will actually use it!

edit: I mean specifically stating that they want to prevent separate games being sold for One X and Series X. Crossbuy would be very nice to have on PS as well!
Well, going by past generations, all Sony first party is going to be PS5 exclusives. The real question here is about third party cross platform games _ and is it only up to them (remember that was CD Project that twitted after Ms announced the program, saying that would do the same with Ciberpunk to support gamers), or do Sony and Ms have a saying on the matter? Maybe eating some of the costs? By the way, did Ms confirmed this to all games or only first/second party?
 
If PS5 is indeed more powerfull than SeX, then why Sony don't tell us just the teraflops number to destroy the competition ? Their silence just play perfectly for Microsoft, and we got plenty of shitty articles like: 9,2 vs 12.

No, Sony is laughing their heads off at all the XBots pushing the idea of a 9.2TF machine. They don't care about all the trolls pushing that idea right now. By waiting until a later date, they can announce a thirteen TF machine and totally humiliate all the XBots that went on and on and on about a thirteen TF machine being impossible. It would be an epic event unlike any other in gaming history.
 

jonnyp

Member
You can have 750Tf but in the end the important thing is the games.

My bet is 11.3Tf and $450

Oh I agree, but think 9 TF is a little bit too low for a good leap forward.

I think MS have hit the sweet spot personally with 12TF so I like your bet and would be happy with that for the PS5.
 
Ah, but what if the base Ps5 needs a minimum of 36 CU to be back compatible with Ps4 pro games ? So your stuck with 8.x TF and a Pro model in Therory.

Pro model they can shoot for the roof (if it exists).

This makes marketing sense, as even Sony themselves were surprised how many xbox fans moved to the Ps4 because of its strength over OG Xbox.

Sony even said the pro was not just for 4K CB but also to tempt some users away from PC, although Xbox X came out a year later.

So, I can see logic in 8 and 13 from a business standpoint, if they exist I know nothing, if Sony go less than XsX they potentially loose some of those high end purchasers who want hight quality 3rd party gaming (who buy lots of games)

That wasn't the only reason Xbox fans switched. The main reason was actually the terrible PR XBO had going into launch. The backlash was so bad that MS reversed almost every policy before release and it became a giant meme on the internet. I even remember Xbox fans who were pissed at MS for changing the policies, it was surreal.

The quickest way they could do a PS5 with the PS5-related chips we know actually exist at the moment (Gonzalo, Ariel, Oberon) would probably be 2x Oberons. But this would be very costly, and you're looking at a PS5 Pro that at least $600 if not likely more, especially if it released this year. There's also the issue of making both GPUs communicate and appear transparently as a single GPU to programmers, something that hasn't really been resolved yet. Then there's the question of how do you fit two such chips on an APU without it being mammoth, or do you go discrete APU (which seems very unlikely). There's not a lot of ways a dual GPU theory really works out.

The only other options for a 13TF PS5 are another Oberon revision with a massively larger CU count, or some other PS5-related chip that shows up. But given how frequent and recent Oberon has been tested I doubt Sony would sink all that time, and R&D into it and not do similar for another chip. And in either case, if one of those possibilities exist we'd either have some semi-concrete proof in their existence through datamined benchmarks, or we'll see them surface within a couple of months. If that doesn't happen, that possibility goes flying out the window.

Even if PS5 Pro is 13TF and base PS5 is 8, you have to wonder what the split between the two would be. If it's 50/50 and the Pro is the one everyone wants, that means Sony just wasted 50% of their resources on a base PS5 that was done in by its own Pro variant. If it's 75/25 in favor of base PS5 but it's only 8TF and early adopters prefer the 12TF XSX, that means Sony's just wasted perhaps up to 50% of their resources again. If they go 50/50 and there's some infux of price-conscious early adopters who think the PS5 Pro is too far beyond their means, and 12TF XSX is either more plentiful or more appealing on the price/power offering than PS5 Pro, then Sony's just wasted perhaps up to 50% of their resources on the PS5 Pro.

It's not the same scenario I think MS is doing, because I think a lot of the recent Lockhart evidence is pointing to something that isn't a "normal" home console form factor, and it's still not known if it's releasing this year. If that holds out true, and Lockhart is something more like a portable hybrid or gaming tablet-like device, that's a clear delineation between it and XSX, that PS5 and PS5 Pro won't enjoy. That means they won't eat into each other's resources or markets.

That's why it makes more sense IMO to just focus on a base PS5 for now, and hold off on the Pro until 2 or 3 years down the road.
 

Disco_

Member
Ah ok I see... so if someone developed a ps3 game the only thing missing to make it play on the ps4 was a few files needing to be downloaded so it worked on the ps4? And the Vita?

No, cross buy is not the same as smart delivery.

Smart delivery is just making sure you get all of the enhancement files for the XsX console without being charged for upgrades or as a whole new repackaged game when all it really would have taken was some patching to get it working and upgraded.

Smart Delivery: This technology empowers you to buy a game once and know that – whether you are playing it on Xbox One or Xbox Series X – you are getting the right version of that game on whatever Xbox you’re playing on. We’re making the commitment to use Smart Delivery on all our exclusive Xbox Game Studios titles, including Halo Infinite, ensuring you only have to purchase a title once in order to play the best available version for whichever Xbox console they choose to play on. This technology is available for all developers and publishers, and they can choose to use it for titles that will be release on Xbox One first and come to the Xbox Series X later.

Cross-Buy
Many games are available on more than one device in the PlayStation ecosystem. That ecosystem is currently composed of the PlayStation 4, PlayStation 3, and PS Vita.

If a game is available on more than one PlayStation device, the game’s developers have the option to make it support “Cross-Buy.” That means customers only have to buy the game once in order to play it on any compatible PlayStation device they own.

For instance, if you buy the game Resogun for PS Vita, you’ll also be able to download and play it on your PS4 for no additional cost.
Even if you don’t have a PS4, the game will stay in your account, ready to be downloaded if you buy a PS4 next month or next year.
Sounds like each system will put the correct version of the game on the correct system. If ps3 and ps4 were compatible as ps4/ps5 or xbone/xsx are, your opening statement would be meaningless.
You're not going to download a ps3 version of the game onto your ps4 and if it remains as it is, you won't be downloading a ps4 game to your ps5 if a ps5 version exists. Just as you won't be getting an xbone version on your xsx if an xsx version exists.
 
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