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[Spidey Fan]

BCounting chickens before they hatch seem to be order of the day for the last few years in the Xbox community. Anyone can look back at posts last year trash-talking about how Halo Infinite is going to blow our socks off at console launch. Now the same happpens with Gamepass.

Yes, of course, Gamepass is in the growth phase and they just MIGHT succeed in being the future of gaming one day. But the key word is MIGHT. Here we have a thread started by someone who very much assume Gamepass has already succeeded, and is confused when I told him it has not.

You know what was the latest PR for Gamepass? A confused and strange claim that Gamepass customers spend more time gaming than people who don't pay for subscription services. That was somehow suppose to be some kind of win, even though anyone who looked into it wonder why it was worth the promotional dollars.


That thread started with Xbox customers celebrating, and ended with everyone admitting it was just marketing speak that had no good news or bad news about Gamepass. The charts and words ended up being meaningless.

And that was the BEST thing Xbox marketing could come up with. "Gamepass customers are more hardcore than people who don't subscribe to gaming services".

I love how you go to your meaningless words, and accuse gamepass player not able to buy games, and consider them moochers.

Sadly arguing with you on that one is impossible.

Xbox had halo infinite last year. People screamed, it got delayed. They got day 1 3rd party games.

People will continue to buy games. Gamepass makes their choice easier now.

Gamepass will be the future. There is no might. It will happen. Because that is common sense, you people lack to see it.

Free games, 1st party games day1, xcloud, xlive, pc pass, all that at the cost of 15$. Anyone with a common sense will join it. And anyone with common sense will buy 3rd party games, since those leave the services after 1 year. But you dont get it (future, gamepass don't sell games durrrrr. It's all br drrrrrr).

This what happens when you argue people who 0 clues about the otherside of gaming world.

 

[CeeJay]

"Maintain position in that market"?
As in, coming THIRD behind Sony and Nintendo?
You expect Microsoft to maintain their current position by going all in on Gamepass? You are more pessimistic than I am.

If all you expect is for MS to come third at the end of it all, then what is the point of going all in on Gamepass?

Wait... Are you telling me MS is actually ahead in gaming right now? You actually Believe that?

I was meaning about Sony maintaining their position.

 

[Duchess]

I'm not sure they'll do it soon. Gamers are apparently happy to spend £70 on certain games:

Amazon.co.uk Best Sellers: The most popular items in PC & Video Games

Ratchet and Clank is #8 right now on Amazon UK, behind controllers and vouchers.

 

[Thirty7ven]

I think they have already countered with the PS collection and having exclusives being released throughout the year. By the time Gamepass starts delivering first party next gen games, these already released Playstation first party games will start being added either to PSnow, or PS plus or whatever.

Timing has worked out in their favor.

 

[Chukhopops]

Counting chickens before they hatch seem to be order of the day for the last few years in the Xbox community. Anyone can look back at posts last year trash-talking about how Halo Infinite is going to blow our socks off at console launch. Now the same happpens with Gamepass.

Yes, of course, Gamepass is in the growth phase and they just MIGHT succeed in being the future of gaming one day. But the key word is MIGHT. Here we have a thread started by someone who very much assume Gamepass has already succeeded, and is confused when I told him it has not.

You know what was the latest PR for Gamepass? A confused and strange claim that Gamepass customers spend more time gaming than people who don't pay for subscription services. That was somehow suppose to be some kind of win, even though anyone who looked into it wonder why it was worth the promotional dollars.


That thread started with Xbox customers celebrating, and ended with everyone admitting it was just marketing speak that had no good news or bad news about Gamepass. The charts and words ended up being meaningless.

And that was the BEST thing Xbox marketing could come up with. "Gamepass customers are more hardcore than people who don't subscribe to gaming services".

Now that’s a sad post, you really think you’re convincing people just by repeating the same wrong arguments until they give up? I think most GP users on GAF have simply accepted the idea that some people don’t like it and moved on - don’t have the energy to argue with an endless stream of the same tired and wrong arguments about how it’s not sustainable and low value at the same time, how it will kill AAA gaming, etc.

 

[Spidey Fan]

"Maintain position in that market"?
As in, coming THIRD behind Sony and Nintendo?
You expect Microsoft to maintain their current position by going all in on Gamepass? You are more pessimistic than I am.

If all you expect is for MS to come third at the end of it all, then what is the point of going all in on Gamepass?

Wait... Are you telling me MS is actually ahead in gaming right now? You actually Believe that?

They bought wrpg devs. That is quarter of Playstation side who will go to them to play bethesda games.

Not to mention, they are still buying studios and heavily invest in gaming.

Sony Nintendo had their time. This time is different. There is new generation, who aren't interested in the last gen stuff. SP games aren't interesting to these guys.

Gaming also took another form. People now play with their friends, and games with live service maintain that relationship.

Your great Sony had 10%-20% of Playstation sales for their 1st party games. Despite having huge numbers.

People go to where their friends go. That is always been the case.

Microsoft also spent that 7.5 billion, like a pocket change. They will buy more, to make gamepass more appealing. Mark my words. If gamepass fails, I will eat shit.

 

[Ass of Can Whooping]

They bought wrpg devs. That is quarter of Playstation side who will go to them to play bethesda games.

Not to mention, they are still buying studios and heavily invest in gaming.

Sony Nintendo had their time. This time is different. There is new generation, who aren't interested in the last gen stuff. SP games aren't interesting to these guys.

Gaming also took another form. People now play with their friends, and games with live service maintain that relationship.

Your great Sony had 10%-20% of Playstation sales for their 1st party games. Despite having huge numbers.

People go to where their friends go. That is always been the case.

Microsoft also spent that 7.5 billion, like a pocket change. They will buy more, to make gamepass more appealing. Mark my words. If gamepass fails, I will eat shit.

Gamepass might end up being a profitable venture for them

Doesn't mean it's going to take them out of 3rd place

 

[Orpheum]

I'd love to see them merge PS now and PS plus into one combined service.

Also while i do think that Gamepass is an amazing approach by Microsoft, directly countering it doesn't make much sense right now. Sony should go a different route by making PS now more of a nostalgia service. Add every PSX, PS2 and PS3 game and i'd subscribe in an instant. They can add more recent Titles too but older games should be priority number 1 until the library of older PS games is complete.

 

[HotPocket69]

Yet here you are cared enough to enter the thread and comment.

What’s your point Vanessa

 

[Spidey Fan]

Gamepass might end up being a profitable venture for them

Doesn't mean it's going to take them out of 3rd place

I doubt Sony is gonna be 1st this gen. That title might go to Nintendo.

This isn't last gen, where xbox shut itself down (both party at that time didn't had big 1st party games). If they didn't do what they did at that e3, it would have been close battle, considering shooter games where x360 home, same for wrpg games.

This gen Xbox has Microsoft and bethesda backing, with Xss (casual console), and pc. While Sony has ps5/ps5 digital.

Both will be strong contender. But Nintendo might steal n1 from them with their handle held console. Casual favorite console.

 

[oldergamer]

Why is there not a "no they won't." option. instead of the fanboyish " they make way more money... "

My guess is they will announce something next year.

 

[Ass of Can Whooping]

I doubt Sony is gonna be 1st this gen. That title might go to Nintendo.

This isn't last gen, where xbox shut itself down (both party at that time didn't had big 1st party games). If they didn't do what they did at that e3, it would have been close battle, considering shooter games where x360 home, same for wrpg games.

This gen Xbox has Microsoft and bethesda backing, with Xss (casual console), and pc. While Sony has ps5/ps5 digital.

Both will be strong contender. But Nintendo might steal n1 from them with their handle held console. Casual favorite console.

It wouldn't have been a close battle. Xbox doesn't have the worldwide presence PS does and until they fix that which isn't going to happen this gen there's still going to be a large gap between the two

Xbox not fucking up just means the gap is going to big instead of really big

 

[PropellerEar]

That is what gamepass is. Free as you are getting in on top of xbox 1st party. Anything else is free at no additional cost.

Back to my first conclusion, you live in fantasy land.

 

[DeltaPolarBear]

Now that’s a sad post, you really think you’re convincing people just by repeating the same wrong arguments until they give up? I think most GP users on GAF have simply accepted the idea that some people don’t like it and moved on - don’t have the energy to argue with an endless stream of the same tired and wrong arguments about how it’s not sustainable and low value at the same time, how it will kill AAA gaming, etc.

Then maybe stop making new threads claiming Sony need to respond . Trying to be defensive when this was a Gamepass fluff thread to start with is silly.

 

[CeeJay]

It wouldn't have been a close battle. Xbox doesn't have the worldwide presence PS does and until they fix that which isn't going to happen this gen there's still going to be a large gap between the two

Xbox not fucking up just means the gap is going to big instead of really big

Its going to be an interesting generation for sure. There are new markets opening up in parts of the world that weren't there at this point last generation which offer new opportunities. Sony are going for a specific part of the market (consoles) worldwide whereas Xbox are going after expanding their reach in the markets that they already do well in. Its also going to be more difficult than ever to know who is the market leader with both camps claiming the same victory with different sets of data!

How are we judging market position? Consoles sold? Physical game sales? MAUs? PS+ vs GamePass subs?

Those metrics in isolation are going to be missing so much revenue.

 

[Bernd Lauert]

How are we judging market position? Consoles sold? Physical game sales? MAUs? PS+ vs GamePass subs?

Revenue is the obvious one, but I also like profit.

 

[CeeJay]

Revenue is the obvious one, but I also like profit.

It's not necessarily straight forward to glean that info when MS bundle their gaming revenue in with other things and separate hardware, software and services.

 

[SoloKingRobert]

No, unless they increase the price and have different tiers. PS Now is too cheap, even when on Sale. Firstly they need to have a pricing structure.

 

[mr.dilya]

No. They'll probably just announce that their next major protagonist will be in a wheelchair.

 

[Thirty7ven]

There are new markets opening up in parts of the world that weren't there at this point last generation which offer new opportunities.

Which markets are these? Lemme guess, India? China? The same markets that people were hyping last gen because just because they are in countries with a lot of people. If you think India is gonna matter this gen, you have no clue.

 

[alabtrosMyster]

GamePass is the response, PSNow has a bigger and better selection of games, many are newer too, most are PS4.

The only benefit gamepass has is a giant astroturfing campaign, it makes people who join like they are taking part in something.

 

[Spidey Fan]

Back to my first conclusion, you live in fantasy land.

I wish. But man common sense is hard to find these days.

 

[SLB1904]

Why would Sony want to lose money?

 

[JohnnyFootball]

Until see Sony sees direct evidence that they Gamepass is causing them to lose gamers, they won't change much.

So far Gamepass hasn't changed but two things right now: Jack and shit... and Jack left town.

 

[CeeJay]

Which markets are these? Lemme guess, India? China? The same markets that people were hyping last gen because just because they are in countries with a lot of people. If you think India is gonna matter this gen, you have no clue.

No need to get aggressive, these are new markets that were not there at the start of last gen and are definitely areas with huge growth potential in the not so distant future. China and India have about 3 billion people compared to the USA that has 10 times less. So even if only a fraction of the population are affluent enough to buy luxury goods such as consoles, mobile phones and game consoles its equates to big numbers.

So, a 0.1% share in China and India is equivalent to a 1% share in USA. Any 1% percentage gains in India and China are worth the equivalent of a 10% gain in USA. Considering that a market like the USA is very mature as far as gaming is concerned and the markets in China and India are virtually untapped it is certainly not nothing. All it takes is for a few small but significant advancements in technology and it can push a massive number of people into the perspective market for a product. To not see the possibilities in this and judging it purely by what has gone before or where things are now is incredibly short sighted.

 

[Thirty7ven]

Yeah figured it would be the “if only 1%” argument.

I even see you slipped in there an ambiguous idea regarding tech advancements, which I bet is related to streaming.

Oh well.

 

[systemr123]

I think they have already countered with the PS collection and having exclusives being released throughout the year. By the time Gamepass starts delivering first party next gen games, these already released Playstation first party games will start being added either to PSnow, or PS plus or whatever.

Timing has worked out in their favor.

And ms will actually not earn anything on their first party games because they’ll be on gamepass day one. It’s a huge money sink for them and after this influx of new users because of extreme discounts a lot of people will actually cancel when they have to start full price for the service. It also has a severe lack of high quality third party games for obvious reasons.

 

[Bernd Lauert]

GamePass is the response, PSNow has a bigger and better selection of games, many are newer too, most are PS4.

Objectively false and borderline trolling with the astroturf part

 

[systemr123]

Objectively false and borderline trolling with the astroturf part

Objectively false if they’d have the same amount of games but ps now has more than twice the library size so this comparison reads like a Polygon pie chart. Instead of percentages for this chart you should use amount of games and suddenly the results will look very different.

 

[Bernd Lauert]

Objectively false if they’d have the same amount of games but ps now has more than twice the library size so this comparison reads like a Polygon pie chart. Instead of percentages for this chart you should use amount of games and suddenly the results will look very different.

Yeah?

 

[Chukhopops]

Then maybe stop making new threads claiming Sony need to respond . Trying to be defensive when this was a Gamepass fluff thread to start with is silly.

- Most of those threads are started by Sony fans, starting from the « Sony+ » thread. Why would MS fans care about a subscription service for a platform they don’t use?
- I have one post in this thread prior to calling you out and it’s to say that Sony does not need a response, so not sure where you’re going with your argument;
- Again, don’t delude yourself into thinking that repeating the same thing many times makes it true or a valid argument.

Objectively false if they’d have the same amount of games but ps now has more than twice the library size so this comparison reads like a Polygon pie chart. Instead of percentages for this chart you should use amount of games and suddenly the results will look very different.

- It doesn’t have more than twice the library size;
- It has fewer 80+ games even in absolute numbers despite the library size difference.

Another example of lie that keeps being repeated and eventually you just give up and let people in their bias.

 

[Gordon Freeman]

These threads confuse me. They already have Playstation Now which is both for streaming and downloadable games.

They aren’t going to shutter it and start something else. The only thing that would even get anyone to think it can compete with GamePass is if they put their first party games on it day one and they will NEVER do that.

They could at any time make an effort to add more third party games to launch day one on the service or even make one of their own first party games a day one launch to boost subs in the short term.

This notion of a third service coming on top of PS+ and PS Now is confusing.

 

[INC]

They already countered it, by having games people are willing to pay full price for

 

[CeeJay]

Yeah figured it would be the “if only 1%” argument.

I even see you slipped in there an ambiguous idea regarding tech advancements, which I bet is related to streaming.

Oh well.

OK, care to elaborate on the "you have no clue" comment? I have given some reasonable and grounded reasons why new markets can have a dramatic effect over the course of this generation. They might not but not being receptive to the possibility is really short-sighted.

The new tech advancements comments is ambiguous because that's the nature of disruptive technologies. You don't know what or how it will disrupt until it does. It could be new battery tech that allows for cheaper, smaller devices that could revolutionise mobile gaming and allow people to uncouple their devices from mains power entirely, it could be telecommunications tech that make land based copper obsolete. There could be some tech that enables a dramatic shift in workforce technologies that gives poorer countries with a higher percentage of physically fit people an advantage such as a wearable device that uses biomechanics to transfer a physical workload into computational workload. What gives you the all seeing eye to not only second guess my ambiguous tech remark as just streaming as well as spot disruptive technologies years into the future when large companies such as Nokia, IBM, Kodak or Blockbuster couldn't see it coming?

Markets change, tech changes and its always opening up new opportunities while closing others. As a company you gotta be prepared to change along with it and not being receptive to change is more likely to affect you negatively than positively.

 

[Spidey Fan]

Which markets are these? Lemme guess, India? China? The same markets that people were hyping last gen because just because they are in countries with a lot of people. If you think India is gonna matter this gen, you have no clue.

Honestly are you downplaying those markets? Man, go back to your world friend. You have no idea how much those guys love gaming. pubg mobile would have a talk with you.

 

[Chukhopops]

And ms will actually not earn anything on their first party games because they’ll be on gamepass day one. It’s a huge money sink for them and after this influx of new users because of extreme discounts a lot of people will actually cancel when they have to start full price for the service. It also has a severe lack of high quality third party games for obvious reasons.

Ori, Sea of Thieves, Halo MCC, Age of Empires 2 DE, all those games are in the 2M to 5M copies sold only on Steam, ignoring the sales on the Xbox store for console and PC.

Horizon Zéro Dawn is in the 1-2M range.

Being on GP does not mean that a game won’t sell, as long as it’s good.

 

[Spidey Fan]

It wouldn't have been a close battle. Xbox doesn't have the worldwide presence PS does and until they fix that which isn't going to happen this gen there's still going to be a large gap between the two

Xbox not fucking up just means the gap is going to big instead of really big

What game are those people are interested in? Dont tell me playstation, exclusive, because i will laugh at your face. Those people are interested in gta, Minecraft, FIFA, call of duty, battle field. Minecraft alone sold 234 million copy. That is all consoles combined during that generation.

Xbox fucked up ruined their brand name, and people picked up the popular brand. Now that stigma doesnt exist. With pc on their side, they will get to those market. Remember that your pc has windows store. all Microsoft needs to do is advertise on that section. Sony cant do it. Especially on pc field, where Microsoft is dominating with 2 stores. steam, and their store. Sony has to deal with their rapid fanbase, if they put their exclusive to pc (Uncharted caused those people to become rabid dogs).

At the end of the day, its what type of game that will sell the consoles. PlayStation has Spiderman as console seller. Other ip are good, but only God of war has big chance to get casuals. I dont hate them, its that PlayStation owners dont buy them alot (10%-20% is the curent sale for their exclusives). If they do Socom now, then that is different thing. Casuals might make that sale 20-30m, since people really wanna play army shooter game. And its the perfect game for ps5 this generation. Compared to skyrim having bethesda titles. Doom (pc guys), elder scrolls (pc mods), fall out (pc mods again). Pc will spread their games, which people will buy XSS for that reason.

Sorry about all these, I almost went in to fanboys world. I hope these 2 give us good things. with microsoft backing xbox fully, i hope they give VR, like psvr. This will make VR popular, since that device is next gen gaming after consoles. That is my only desire from their outcome.

 

[Spidey Fan]

These threads confuse me. They already have Playstation Now which is both for streaming and downloadable games.

They aren’t going to shutter it and start something else. The only thing that would even get anyone to think it can compete with GamePass is if they put their first party games on it day one and they will NEVER do that.

They could at any time make an effort to add more third party games to launch day one on the service or even make one of their own first party games a day one launch to boost subs in the short term.

This notion of a third service coming on top of PS+ and PS Now is confusing.

People are seriously underestimating ps now. Sony has to focus on that service, and proof to PlayStation people, this thing has value, same as how Microsoft did for their gamepass. With partnering with Microsoft, i hope i can see some drastic changes.

 

[Spidey Fan]

Ori, Sea of Thieves, Halo MCC, Age of Empires 2 DE, all those games are in the 2M to 5M copies sold only on Steam, ignoring the sales on the Xbox store for console and PC.

Horizon Zéro Dawn is in the 1-2M range.

Being on GP does not mean that a game won’t sell, as long as it’s good.

They wont get it. to them, gamepass is a failure that doesnt make money. Psnow existed for a long time, and still makes money for sony, why cant gamepass do that?

 

[laynelane]

- Most of those threads are started by Sony fans, starting from the « Sony+ » thread. Why would MS fans care about a subscription service for a platform they don’t use?
- I have one post in this thread prior to calling you out and it’s to say that Sony does not need a response, so not sure where you’re going with your argument;
- Again, don’t delude yourself into thinking that repeating the same thing many times makes it true or a valid argument.

- It doesn’t have more than twice the library size;
- It has fewer 80+ games even in absolute numbers despite the library size difference.

Another example of lie that keeps being repeated and eventually you just give up and let people in their bias.

Mid-page, it says PSNow has more than 800 games. Is that incorrect?

 

[Jadsey]

Man, I hope they don't.

You can keep your cheap-ass filler products on other consoles, but I prefer premium games on my PS5.

 

[Chukhopops]

Mid-page, it says PSNow has more than 800 games. Is that incorrect?

PSNow: 851 as of a month ago, counting PS3+PS4
Gamepass: 456 as of a month ago, counting console and PC (deduplicated).

 

[alabtrosMyster]

That is what gamepass is. Free as you are getting in on top of xbox 1st party. Anything else is free at no additional cost.

You spend all this money to get "free" stuff that gets taken away whenever the marketing deals end for the corporations involved.

Just play fortnite of you want "free stuff" at least you won't look like you are deluded when you say it's free.

 

[GuinGuin]

How was the other thread console warring but this isn't? They have a counter. It's a combination of top notch exclusives and an amazing deal with Playstation Plus and the PlayStation Plus Collection.

 

[alabtrosMyster]

Gamepass will be the future. There is no might. It will happen. Because that is common sense, you people lack to see it.

You ignored all the times you guys were so enclined in the trash talk, as if you were right only once in the past.

Are you one of those who think what they pay for is free because it's on gamepass?

The only benefit of gamepass is the marketing behind it.

 

[DarkMage619]

It's not necessarily straight forward to glean that info when MS bundle their gaming revenue in with other things and separate hardware, software and services.

Then maybe we can determine a 'winner' based on which platform appeals the most each person individually. If you like the PS ecosystem most that system won for you. If you like the Xbox ecosystem you have a winner right there! Getting caught up in profit margins of billion/trillion dollar companies doesn't accomplish much, unless you are a stockholder I suppose.

You ignored all the times you guys were so enclined in the trash talk, as if you were right only once in the past.

Are you one of those who think what they pay for is free because it's on gamepass?

The only benefit of gamepass is the marketing behind it.

That and the fantastic value it offers.

 

[laynelane]

PSNow: 851 as of a month ago, counting PS3+PS4
Gamepass: 456 as of a month ago, counting console and PC (deduplicated).

When you say: "It has fewer 80+ games even in absolute numbers despite the library size difference." - do you mean 80+ critical score?

I'm trying to follow along with the conversation but am dealing with a migraine, so I hope you don't mind me asking for clarification.

 

[Bernd Lauert]

How was the other thread console warring but this isn't?

If you can't see it, you might have a problem...

 

[SteelCurtain 59]

I think they won't (maybe some tweaks to PS Now bringing in 1st party games a bit sooner), but I think they should

 

[FloatingIslands]

Mm I think they'll wait to see if gamepass becomes viable in the long term and then they do their own service.

Kind of like how Disney now has Disney+.