Loxus
Member
There might be some meaning behind it.
More than just Matrix names.
PS4 Pro codename is Neo, which can mean modified.
Modified PS4 Shader Engines?
PS5 Pro is Trinity, meaning a group of three.
So, 3 modified PS5 Shader Engines?
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Rumor: PS5 Pro Codenamed "Trinity" targeting Late 2024 (some alleged specs leaked)
- Thread starter MisterXDTV
- Start date
- Rumor Platform
More than just Matrix names.
PS4 Pro codename is Neo, which can mean modified.
Modified PS4 Shader Engines?
PS5 Pro is Trinity, meaning a group of three.
So, 3 modified PS5 Shader Engines?
Keep it coming I love it!
Loxus
Member
twilo99
Member
The PS5 seems to be a 5700xt / 6700 hybrid of some sort
DeepEnigma
Gold Member
Maybe we'll even see a wild 9.2, no RT, and overheat leak or two.
Mr.Phoenix
Member
That guys prediction was clearly extremist whack. Cause as its stands, the 3090 only stands to be about 15-20% more powerful than a PS5pro. A PS6 would run circles around that thing. And likely even a 4090. And that stuff he was saying about graphics without reconstruction techniques... lol. His mindset was showing its age even then. At this point, we can only hope that reconstruction gets better and better to the point its indistinguishable from native rendering. Because its not going anywhere.
SegaSnatcher
Member
Honestly, that list seems wishful thinking. 20GBs of GDDR6 doesn't seem necessary. If they want to open up more GDDR6 for games they could add like an 1 - 2 GBs of cheaper ram to handle OS/Background tasks.
GPU Tflop number and CU count also very suspect. I don't see it going higher than 20 Tflops, but most likely will be around 18 Tflops.
HTK
Banned
My games that can’t maintain a solid 60 or 120fps at native 4k disagree at the notion that PS5 Pro is useless.
SegaSnatcher
Member
I was honestly quite surprised how uninterested John was regarding PS5 Pro, especially when he was so big on the benefits of the PS4 Pro last gen, especially with the hardware boost mode that basically benefitted most games.
And it kinda annoyed me when he dropped the "It feels like the gen just started" line which is such BS considering the PS5 sold over 10 million units in its first year alone and is now at around 40 million units. The generation started when the PS5 launched in 2020 and nothing changes that.
The fact is there are many games that fail to hit their FPS targets consistently. Show me all the 120fps modes that actually are consistent, not to mention so many require such a huge reduction to resolution.
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mckmas8808
Mckmaster uses MasterCard to buy Slave drives
He's talking about games being built for this gen only.
yeah and they already struggle at framerate/resolution front with current hw.
they are being wilfully obtuse about a “reason” for pro to exist, while it’s obviously targeted for people wanting more than 1080p30 for the rest of the gen.
they desperately cling to 8k bullshit for an “own” which isn’t even an official sony line.
it’s pretty weird coming from tech “enthusiasts” channel honestly.
pretty sure they would be salivating over series double x at microsoft office by now , if tables were turned
CanYouFlyBobby?
Banned
If the ps5 pro has a split memory pool for their OS, how much extra real estate would the memory controller take up on the die?
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SegaSnatcher
Member
The PS5 is already struggling to maintain consistent FPS in a lot of cross gen games, so its only going to be harder for PS5 to do that with more next gen only titles.
If the base PS5 already ran most 120fps modes consistently I'd agree that Pro wouldn't be as needed, but the fact is there are so few 120fps modes the base PS5 can truly hit consistently.
Ray tracing modes is another issue base PS5 seems to struggle with.
saintjules
Member
I mean to be fair, none of the games so far with the exception of a few titles felt next-gen in any way. So maybe that's why the "this gen just started" comment was said.
It's not even about the sales. It's about what experience we are getting from the games. Which has been a bit lackluster if I am being honest. People are buying it sure, but how many of them are satisfied currently despite that? That's why I cringe sometimes whenever I see a post/thread/comment about sales of a game or hardware. What does that even really mean in the end? I bought a PSVR2 at launch. I was hyped for like 2 weeks after I got it. Now? It's in the box for a few months now. I'm one of those who bought it, but am I 100% happy with it, playing it every day? That's stats I'd personally like to see more of. Maybe I'm one of these guys, which could be the case. I am busy these days anyway.
I do however agree with games failing to hit their FPS target. I am currently forcing myself to play FFXVI in perf mode, but the inconsistency outside of battles is off-putting. I don't feel compelled to finish it in it's current state. So yeah, as I was saying months back; if we could get games hitting 4k or even 1440p at 60fps comfortably, I'd be happy getting a Pro.
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SegaSnatcher
Member
The problem is the hardware leaps continue to get smaller and smaller making generation shifts less noticeable in games anyways.
The PS5 not crushing through all these multiplatform games in terms of performance kinda proves that. The biggest thing PS5 has brought to the table is being able to offer more 60fps modes which I think it has done pretty well at, but if multiplatform games still have issues with FPS consistently then it'll only get worse with games that specifically target next gen hardware.
We will never see a generation shift like PS2/Xbox to PS3/360 ever again.
Look at Spider-Man 2 for PS5, an exclusive title, yet that doesn't look a generation better than the previous Spider-Man games on PS4.
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deriks
4-Time GIF/Meme God
So PS6 Pro will be Morpheus, and if flops will be changed to Morbius
*Laugh_track.mp3*
Mr.Phoenix
Member
The thing is, the PS5 already has a split memory pool. 16GB GDDR6 and 512MB DDR4.
Making that 512MB (4Gb chip) bigger is the easiest part. They could replace that chip with a 16Gb or 32Gb chip if they wanted to and instantly give the PS5 4GB or 8GB of DDR4 RAM. The problem is in how that RAM is connected to the APU.
Currently, it's on the same PCIe x4 lane that the SSD is connected to. If you want that RAM handing anything more than background tasks, and take more of the Core OS stuff which will in turn free up GDDR6 ram on the system for more RAM-intensive apps (like games), then you have to increase the bandwidth of that pool. And right now the easiest way to do that would be to give the PS5pro APU, more PCIe lanes. Eg, increasing that channel from 4x to 16x, would allow the APU to use the full bandwidth that SDRAM chip offers. At that point, the entire OS just sits on the DDR4 module.
Right now, the PS5 has background OS tasks running off the RAM chip like its a live Linux USB drive.
I think the entire question of if a pro console is necessary is redundant.
even if you can get 2160p@30/40fps native game and 1080p/1440p at 60fps consistently on the PS5right now, A pro console that could give you native 2160p@60fps and 1440p@120fps is still worth t and justified. I mean, it's not mandatory, and it's just a bonus, so who has the right to decide for everyone else if they should or shouldn't spend more money on slightly better hardware and how important those extra frames or higher pixels are to who?
How can any human being on this planet that can justify the existence of $1500 GPUs, maybe giving you 30% better performance than their $1000 counterparts... not see the sense or value in a $500 console giving you 100% more performance than its $400 counterpart?
When I see anyone being that blatantly obtuse... I can't help but feel it's staged and there is an agenda somewhere. I mean, there better be one, cause then at least they aren't just being stupid. I can respect agendas, a man gotta eat right? I can't respect stupidity though.
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Loxus
Member
PS5 has a unified memory architecture.
How many RAM does PS5 have?
The PS5's RAM is unified, which means it is used as system RAM and VRAM at the same time. This improves performance because data doesn't need to be copied between multiple pools of memory.
So base on this, having another pool of RAM isn't going to make sense. Best solution is to just add more GDDR6.
That 512 MB DDR4 SDRAM is for the SSD Controller, an ARM Cortex processor. That RAM is used to mainly to handle all the background tasks.
Sony PS5 SSD
You can see the DDR4 PHY in the SSD Controller and not in the main chip.
1-2 Zen2 Core are used to run the OS.
Unified memory increases performance.
Why hurt performance with two RAM pools on the main chip?
Not only that, imagine the performance lost for the CPU to access the DDR4 through the SSD controller.
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TheRedRiders
Member
MLiD has corroborated Tom Henderson's and Keplars leaks about the PS5 Pro and it's codenames Viola and Trinity. Of course it's likely he's pulling it out his arse but thought it's worth mentioning.
Mr.Phoenix
Member
Thanks. I get the true breadth f the limitations now. So basically, the only way that works is if the DDR4 PHY bus is on the main chip. And what you are saying is if you are going to do that, you might as well just put on 2 more GDDR6 PHY and add two more GDDR6 chips to the APU pool.PS5 has a unified memory architecture.
How many RAM does PS5 have?
The PS5's RAM is unified, which means it is used as system RAM and VRAM at the same time. This improves performance because data doesn't need to be copied between multiple pools of memory.
So base on this, having another pool of RAM isn't going to make sense. Best solution is to just add more GDDR6.
That 512 MB DDR4 SDRAM is for the SSD Controller, an ARM Cortex processor. That RAM is used to mainly to handle all the background tasks.
Sony PS5 SSD
You can see the DDR4 PHY in the SSD Controller and not in the main chip.
1-2 Zen2 Core are used to run the OS.
Unified memory increases performance.
Why hurt performance with two RAM pools on the main chip?
Not only that, imagine the performance lost for the CPU to access the DDR4 through the SSD controller.
TheRedRiders
Member
DeepEnigma
Gold Member
Morpheus was the PSVR codename.
Loxus
Member
Mr.Phoenix
Member
I always just assumed that the APU could just access a larger pool of DDR4 over the PCIe bus. like how PC CPUs interface with their GPUs. figured that simply increasing the number of PCIe gen 4 lanes from 4 to even 8 or 12, would allow the APU still get the full SSD bandwidth but so interface directly with the DDR4 RAM if need be.Exactly, like the second one which adds up to 20GB.
But from taking a closer look at the image you provided, the only way they can do that currently is if interfacing through the ARM chip (which would be stupid) or somehow allowing both the ARM and the APU chips to write directly to that dr4 pool of RAM.
The more I think about it, the more sense it makes to do what you are suggesting. Just add two more GGDDR6 PHY buses and make the APU have 20GB of GDDR6 at its disposal.
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YOU PC BRO?!
Gold Member
Such bizarre sentiment from so many in here.
There is no such thing as too much power. It’s not like the PS5 is consistent at hitting even 60fps in every game anyways. I’m all for options. If there is a market for a higher tier sku then it justifies its existence. Given how happy Sony were with PS4Pro sales then why not.
Microsoft on the other hand need to respond with something. Even if it’s simply a premium Series X with all CU activated and clocked higher due to better cooling.
Edit: The more I think about it Microsoft could have an easy win here. Series X Premium with a better cooling solution. Die shrink 5nm, full 56CU GPU clocked at ~2.2GHz or higher, slightly larger pool of ‘fast‘ RAM, higher clocked CPU and slightly faster SSD (same capacity). Such a system would likely perform + ~30% in non cpu bound scenarios. Would clock in at around ~16TFlop on pretty much the exact same die shrunk chip. Would likely fall a little behind PS5Pro but it would be close enough without any real effort. This is war, why not?
There is no such thing as too much power. It’s not like the PS5 is consistent at hitting even 60fps in every game anyways. I’m all for options. If there is a market for a higher tier sku then it justifies its existence. Given how happy Sony were with PS4Pro sales then why not.
Microsoft on the other hand need to respond with something. Even if it’s simply a premium Series X with all CU activated and clocked higher due to better cooling.
Edit: The more I think about it Microsoft could have an easy win here. Series X Premium with a better cooling solution. Die shrink 5nm, full 56CU GPU clocked at ~2.2GHz or higher, slightly larger pool of ‘fast‘ RAM, higher clocked CPU and slightly faster SSD (same capacity). Such a system would likely perform + ~30% in non cpu bound scenarios. Would clock in at around ~16TFlop on pretty much the exact same die shrunk chip. Would likely fall a little behind PS5Pro but it would be close enough without any real effort. This is war, why not?
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DeepEnigma
Gold Member
Cerny did say the more you add, the more speed you need to feed.
Ronin_7
Member
Yup. Cerny is a Big Big fan of high clocks.
James Sawyer Ford
Member
He’s a big big fan of big clocks
Ronin_7
Member
CanYouFlyBobby?
Banned
Can someone explain why having fewer CUs at high clocks is superior to more CUs with lower clocks? And is that always the case?
Sethbacca
Member
IIRC it's got something to do with utilization. It's easier to keep fewer CUs utilized than to simply increase the number of them.
ChiefDada
Member
It isn't,a Crytec dev and Mark Cerny basically said it becomes more difficult to put all those shaders to work.
Ronin_7
Member
Post in thread 'Rumor: PS5 Pro Codenamed "Trinity" targeting Late 2024 (some alleged specs leaked)' https://www.neogaf.com/threads/rumo...e-alleged-specs-leaked.1659012/post-268245258
Tqaulity
Member
Would nice but depends on what you mean by astronomically high. Practically speaking a 54 CU RDNA part (i.e 7700XT) could be clocked at 2.5-2.6 Ghz using similar cooling as the current PS5 no problem. The max speed I can see in a console would be 3Ghz which would be plenty to get this card performing on par with a 6900 XT/RTX 3090 (or even exceeding it). Astronomically high would be anything above 3Ghz IMO and I don't see that happening at all as that would be nearly 40%+ boost to clock speed which would be excessive (but I'd love to be surprised there).
Mr.Phoenix
Member
For me, astronomically high would be anything above 2600Mhz in a console. 2400/2500Mhz seem easily doable as that is just around 10% clock increase over the 7nm GPU in the og PS5.
Dream-Knife
Banned
Why not just have a removable APU and they just make a more powerful one every year or two?
Physiognomonics
Member
If true, N4P is good news as it would allow about 10% higher performance compared to 5nm.
Daniel_Mallorca1985
Member
Sony PS5 Pro SoC Reportedly To Use N4P, 4nm Process Node - PlayStation Universe
A new report claims that the SoC for the PS5 Pro will use a N4P, 4nm process node.
www.psu.com
Its sadly the pessimism stemming from getting our expectations thoroughly shredded this gen. This gen has showcased little ambition from even sony first parties so far in terms of tech advancement/innovation and ambition so now everyone expects the bare minimum.. I mean the 72 cu rumor is treated as incredulous for some reason as if it is a outlandish upgrade when it would be just par for the course compared to even the ps4 pro which was a 2.2boost in compute and it itself was a rather conservative mid gen console compared to the one x..this gen broke people.
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Daniel_Mallorca1985
Member
24 TF only?
mansoor1980
Gold Member
+extra ps tech
cerny sauce 2.0
cerny sauce 2.0
DeepEnigma
Gold Member
You know we are in a new console time of speculation, when a wild Tidux appears repeating information we all already heard.
TheRedRiders
Member
It’s tradition at this point.
Skifi28
Member
What do you mean only?
Tqaulity
Member
I'd just like to point out that your comment about Sony first parties having little ambition to push tech advancement is a little bit disingenuous given that Sony has yet to release but a small handful of new "built for PS5" games to date. We really don't know how ambitious they are and what those games will look like. All we've seen so far are Demon's Souls (arguably the best looking next gen game to date), Ratchet & Clank (arguably the best looking next gen game to date along with best utilization of Fast I/O to date), AstroBot (best Dualsense utilization yet), and Returnal (technically not 1st party when it was developed it but still one of the best uses of Dualsense, Tempest 3D audio, and SSD in a game to date). Remember both Spiderman games were PS4 ports, Horizon FW was cross gen, God of War R was cross gen, GT7 was cross gen, Naughty Dog has only released remakes and remastered so far, Sucker Punch has only done an update to GOT, and MLB of course is still cross gen.
I mean, if you're judging upcoming games based on their trailers, I wouldn't as many of the games from the PS Showcase this year are still far out. But in terms of what has actually released, all 4 are some of the most ambitious "next gen" games to date.
CanYouFlyBobby?
Banned
more than enough for 4k 60 no?
Codeblew
Member
Only? That is higher than I expect for 54 CU's (won't be 60 usable for obvious reasons).