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EuroGamer: More details on the BALANCE of XB1
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SenjutsuSage
Banned
S¡mon;83181885 said:
It was dangerously close, but we pulled ourselves back from the brink.
Plus, you had a sense mods were prepping for a little target practice lol.Not gameplay, but not CG either. Real-Time. However, there was one scene shown in that trailer that was real gameplay. It was shown to a site, and they confirmed real player control. It's the part when he pushes the glass away. That was real gameplay. It's going to be exciting as hell watching them bring together that concept of insane shootouts inside such crazy looking disaster areas.
James Sawyer Ford
Member
not_so_special
Banned
It was dangerously close, but we pulled ourselves back from the brink.
maybe im wrong..but the problem here its not the choice to buy any console,the problem here its microsoft downplaying the power difference with some bogus claims and pr bs
So...open world vs. confined doesn't matter....1080p vs 900p doesn't matter
Like I said, I'm not going to bother responding. The guy is a walking talking contradiction and the epitome of double standards and will never admit when he's wrong. Case in point, 3 characters max, oh no wait 5, oh no wait who cares what I said before it's less quality on distant characters anyway
This so called self assessed tech loving PC elitist who has for years championed IQ and Crysis's open world implications, now doesn't care about resolution and open world vs linear too. How many other countless things will he regressively double down on in defence of Crytek lol.
Oh well...
SenjutsuSage
Banned
Well, there in lies the issue, I guess. Some think certain claims are more bogus than others. I know for a fact that some stuff is being downplayed, because it isn't favorable, but I also at the same time believe that there's legitimately honest information that gives us a really good bit of insight into the platform that is also very much apart of this whole thing, too. I don't have this big distrust of what they say. I think I can read between the lines on the pr stuff, and get at the real info.
GribbleGrunger
Dreams in Digital
So...open world vs. confined doesn't matter....1080p vs 900p doesn't matter
You're flogging a dead horse because prospective X1 consumers think that when we say the PS4 is more powerful we are inferring that the X1 is terrible. That's not the case of course, but this debate will never ever be resolved until they realise the X1 is going to be a fantastic console, regardless of not being as powerful as the PS4.
viveks86
Member
Guys, isn't comparison of platform exclusives completely off topic here? I opened this thread hoping to see what some of the experts/hardware enthusiasts in the community have to say about Leadbetter's article. It seemed on topic for the first few pages and now most of what I see are game GIFs claiming one to have better graphical bells and whistles than the other.
This would make sense if we are comparing the same multi-platform game, but how does comparing exclusives really lead to any conclusion? Some of the comparisons being done are on totally different genres!
It's unfortunate that we don't have many real direct feed videos of multi-platform games for both platforms (most, from what I know, have been for PS4), to help show the difference. Until then, can we not just analyze the claims made in the article in the OP? I'm not a hardware guy, so I can't add anything constructive here, but I was hoping to learn something from others!
This would make sense if we are comparing the same multi-platform game, but how does comparing exclusives really lead to any conclusion? Some of the comparisons being done are on totally different genres!
It's unfortunate that we don't have many real direct feed videos of multi-platform games for both platforms (most, from what I know, have been for PS4), to help show the difference. Until then, can we not just analyze the claims made in the article in the OP? I'm not a hardware guy, so I can't add anything constructive here, but I was hoping to learn something from others!
not_so_special
Banned
seriously,dont get me wrong,i think you a are a nice guy,but come on you are so gullible to anything microsoft related,and y myself will buy a xbox one with ryse at launch,but their pr history is just a via cruxis of lies,deception and more lies,dont doubt this for a second,if microsoft were the one with the more powerfull system they will tell you ad nauseum
You are seriously crazy. Where i said that i dont care about resolution? Where i said that i dont care about open world and linear game. Read freaking post again.
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CryEngine Sandbox editor is open world engine. It doesnt matter if game zone is smaller in some way, if they've expanded it 100x times, it would not change the fidelity, because of their streaming engine.
ConteZero76
Member
No, because almost every game will be running better on the other console, the cheaper one.
X1 is going to be a overpriced less powerful box.
Right so the head is clearly higher poly and detail but the rest of the model might simply be a stick figure?
You can get a very good look at the models via the Trailer
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2FK8dgzW0o8
Just saying 'CryEngine 3 has much more optimized features that compensate for Xbone hardware weaknesses' is such a meaningless statement. Accounting for bandwidth or CPU bottleneck, whatever the cases may be, does not suddenly change anything to do with how the hardware functions in comparison. There no magic algorithm not possible on PS4 that will narrow the gap or some such.
You're just saying that CryEngine 3 is a good engine, which also runs on PS4, presumably with more headroom now and in the future when developers really start optimizing the engines around using spare CU cycles and the like.
James Sawyer Ford
Member
I don't think it's off-topic at all - especially when you have Microsoft technical fellows and product directors making comparisons to Sony's system in the linked article.
Ricerocket
Member
Does anyone know if there is anything like this from Sony side for the PS4?
GribbleGrunger
Dreams in Digital
I'm getting a PS4 and have no intention of buying an X1 but I won't enter into this whole nonsensical black and white argument. Isn't enough that you chose to go with the better hardware? Why do you feel the need to put down what will also be a great console?
Chobel
Member
PS4 doesn't have eSRAM, so there's probably nothing similar to Xbox one customizations in PS4.
EDIT: but of course that doesn't mean PS4 won't have its own customizations. Check RoboPlato comment below mine.
it seems MS are not the only one who have mastered the Art of 180.
But it WOULD change the amount of resource intensiveness of a particular scene or area, and that is the point. The larger your game worlds and the more elements that occupy them etc, the more resource demanding they are, correlating of course with the level of fidelity and graphical complexity on offer with everything else.
viveks86
Member
I'm not saying comparison is off topic. Comparison of hardware is what this thread is all about! I'm saying comparison of exclusive games, such as Ryse vs Killzone means nothing in the context of this thread.
If we had footage of BF4 on both platforms and people made a case based on that, then it's a valid comparison. Unfortunately, we don't have that. Doesn't mean we start comparing apples and oranges. A valid comparison needs to have the same scene, frame by frame. Anything else is just "my favorite game looks better than yours".
That still completely depends on the scope of the world being drawn (and at what fidelity/lod) at any one time. You're still going to be able to do more in a smaller space, particularly if you don't actually have to go be able to go over to that mountain 5000 yards away. Cryengine could still render a single room far better than it could render an entire House even with streaming.
James Sawyer Ford
Member
Panello has stated that he can't see any difference between exclusive games. Not that I would expect him to say otherwise, but when you have him making those statements some people are going to disagree.
Metalmurphy
Member
Those weren't the only situations where it hit 60... Also, Ryse can't even hit a stable 30fps... I consider that to be far worse.
GribbleGrunger
Dreams in Digital
If it had been an article on whether you prefer red M&Ms to blue M&Ms, by page 15 it would have turned into PS4 V X1. It's in Gaf's DNA!
Tripolygon
Banned
This makes no sense at all. While PS4 is more powerful than Xbox One on paper, it does not mean Xbox One will not be an awesome console. As for almost every game running better on PS4 than Xbox One, that is yet to be seen. We will not know that until we have games in our hands and test them to see how superior PS4 version is compared to Xbox One (vice versa) but many people still might not even care about that.
S¡mon;83181885 said:
Same here.
But I do always try to make it clear that the difference in power is not something that should be ignored or rationalized. I can understand people going for either console for various reasons, but what I don't understand is that, most people who go for the Xbone, try to rationalize and skew one of the biggest advantages the PS4 has.
They eagerly accept whatever marketing-bullshit MS throws at them. Even when it's demonstrably false.
Ricerocket
Member
cool thanks man.
Well, some people see differences between 1080p and 900p, or pre-baked lighing and dyniamic lightning, etc.
If he can't see it, it's his "problem".
You're fair, but for most people it's still probably going to come down to an either or proposition, and even if they were completely equal, the cheaper one would still be the better option for more people.
I don't know, maybe you really love an Xbox One exclusive so the system is worth it to you to pay more for weaker hardware, more power to you, but that's probably not going to be the case for many people. Heck I bought a PS3 and not an Xbox 360 due to exclusives, so I know it can happen, but I don't pretend that I wasn't a minority.
Agreed. Here is the video in question btw.
http://www.gamersyde.com/download_killzone_shadow_fall_gc_ps4_interface_1080p-30589_en.html
I'd say the average frame rate is probably in the mid to low 50's. Which is pretty damn good for a game that still has much of the final stages of polish and optimisation to go, especially one that looks as good as Shadow Fall does....at launch.
http://images.gamersyde.com/image_the_order_1886-22390-2752_0006.jpg
http://images.gamersyde.com/image_the_order_1886-22390-2752_0002.jpg
http://images.gamersyde.com/image_the_order_1886-22390-2752_0007.jpg
I dont see the gap, seems similar. Better looking head, mostly because of hair, but cloths arent higher polys than Marius armor
Its not about magic algorithms, its about better algorithms. For example KZ:SF is using 1/4 quarter res DoF with less taps than Ryse. KZ:SF do not even has per-pixel object motion blur currently, where Ryse has much higher quality. Shadows generators are much more advanced in Ryse than in KZ:SF and there is good presentation about them here:
http://crytek.com/download/Playing with Real-Time Shadows.pdf
There is also no other games that is even close in terms of vegetation geometry and its physics to Ryse [AC is closest]
There is just difference of matured engines and its features. For example C3 on current gen consoles have full HDR pipeline and physically based lighting, per-pixel motion blur and bokeh, where Killzone 3 didnt have HDR [just LDR], it was physically based, it was scrapped from per-pixel motion blur and didnt have bokeh. Sure it ran better and had better resolution, but there are more differences, because CryEngine 3 had very optimized features. Just for example Bioshock had Bokeh that half Your framerate, same goes for Metro 2033, where Crytek implemented Bokeh on current-gen console and it was almost free in low quality on PC.
Good algorithms can free up You much more performance than difference between PS4 and Xbone. Of course that wont work in multiplatform title, because algorithms will be the same for Bokeh for example.
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Why? You could stream everything in, tons of levels worked like that in Crysis 3. And being inside house just allow to You to cull out everything from outside.
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And i said that LoD transition would be more visible. Its not like beach scene from E3 was small or Stonehenge scene.
And CryEngine on PS4 won't be optimized to it's strengths and weaknesses?
What are you trying to say here?
They never have. That doesn't mean they never will, in fact, it's about to. The point was the debate over which of these is more capable isn't something the majority of the audience cares about. It's very difficult to say what caused any of the previous winners to sell the best. The Wii had the novelty and lower entry point, all the previous winners had the wealth of third party exclusive content. It's probably a lot of things, first party, third party, price, physical design, lineage, now we have things like online functionality and player profile legacy, etc.
This war over who has 'the most powerful console ever' is irrelevant to the market. It makes sense for Sony to brag, because they have the better box, but I don't think it makes sense for MS to argue over it, they should write off the debate entirely.
maximum360
Member
It will probably be similar to watching HD on Fox. 1080i on CBS and NBC is visually better; even 720p on ABC is better but the 720p on Fox is passable if you choose to ignore it. Also, if you know what to look for it makes it even harder, thus being ignorant to the facts may be to your advantage.
I don't want to get in the middle of this but the info on Shadow Fall's DoF and motion blur info you quote is from the February demo and both were on the list of things to improve by launch. There seemed to be more motion blur present in the TGS footage, although the quality was impossible to tell from off screen and I don't know if it was per pixel. The bokeh effect in the Gamescom b-roll was significantly better than in the reveal or E3 footage.
To be clear, I don't think anyone will beat out Crytek when it comes to motion blur or DoF but I think it will at least be closer than comparing Killzone in February with Ryse from a few days ago.
Because Xbox fanboys are in denial. They don't wanna admit that their console is very flawed for gaming.
I'm both a Nintendo fan & a Sony fan, & I at least can admit that the PS2 is stronger than the Dreamcast, but weaker than the Xbox & Gamecube & that most PS2/PS3 multiplats are weaker than the Xbox, Xbox 360, & Gamecube versions, etc.
CassidyIzABeast
Member
How do you know that at this point in time?
Prince Vultan
Banned
Watching KKRTOO and SenjutsuSage go is kind of amazing.
viveks86
Member
Penello made many blunders. His comparison of exclusive games is one of them. And I believe many of us did disagree and raise questions when he got a little too involved with GAF discussions. Some of his claims are still unclear, even after reading the DF article. Many people here that I normally find myself agreeing with are getting involved in these apples vs oranges comparisons. All it does is push this thread into a downward spiral as everyone starts posting their own GIFs and the thread turns into a free for all. It hasn't happened yet, I'm trying to do my part to prevent it
ConteZero76
Member
Yep, the premise of unsupported audio recognition and no HDMI features here in EU are the best.
andromeduck
Member
It's way too late for that :'(
Xbox One is clearly designed as a multimedia/kinect machine first, & a gaming machine second, while PS4 was designed as a gaming machine first, & a multimedia machine second, just like with the original Xbox & the Xbox 360 in which they were designed as gaming machines first.
Some interesting quote from Gubbi over at B3D on the question whether the 16 Rops are an issue - iirc he is a developer - correct me if I'm wrong.
http://beyond3d.com/showpost.php?p=1786976&postcount=6424
http://beyond3d.com/showpost.php?p=1786976&postcount=6424
He'll forget or won't recognize that pushing 44% more pixels at 100% frame rate is definitely a big difference.
His argument is, people won't be able to see the difference in many circumstances so it doesn't matter.