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EDGE: "Power struggle: the real differences between PS4 and Xbox One performance"

KidBeta

Junior Member
Sooner or later the GPU has to decompress them. LZ packed DXT will then unpacked in a dedicated piece of HW without bothering the GPU with this task.

Congratulations you just destroyed your performance, the GPU supports uncompressing these textures at full speed, you keep them compressed as long as possible.
 
This whole "Tv distance" thing to dismiss the benefit of higher resolutions is just incredible.

There's actually a decent amount of merit to the argument. Most consumers can't tell the difference between 480 upscaled, 720p, and 1080p unless they're literally right next to each other.
 

Tycho_b

Member
All this talk about move engines, audio chips etc reminds me start of current generation and PS3 mantra about power of cell, how is it going to make a difference.

If You were around in these times, You know what I mean. SPEs able to run and exchange the code with each other, set in cascades, how collisions in Burnout are calculated thanks to this, SPEs having their own memory, SIMDisation of code etc.

In the end only few dev houses in whole industry were able to make this difference.
For all remaining it meant blood, tears an misery. Most often not appreciated which I think is best described as being 'lazy devs'.

No matter what, machine with simpler architecture will always be better than sophisticated one.

I am not telling that it will be the case, MS will work hard to offset any deficiencies on HW side with marketing, sales, publishing efforts, but looking at current announcements - 99,99% new games are being published on PS4 with very few exceptions. Virtually all new games will be there.

If this continues, we may see a PS1 or PS2-bis with most games on the market playable on just one box.
 
Lots of outrage and accusations of parity fixing incoming on DF faceoffs in future.

I disagree, the 50%+ alone will brute force better performance (framerates/tearing etc.) even if they don't implement better lighting/textures etc in the PS4 versions.

They will actually have to spend more money coding downgrading the PS4 versions to the low xbone level so that the framedrops are equal.
 
This whole "Tv distance" thing to dismiss the benefit of higher resolutions is just incredible.

I sit like 4 feet away from my tv because games are so blurry these days. Trying to play BF3 on PS3/360 is just baaad. Trying to see people with so few pixels... gotta sit close to see the single pixel that represents a person on the other side of a map that's shooting at you...
 

gofreak

GAF's Bob Woodward
I just checked it and it seems they can unpack LZ packed DXT.

Which is great, but I'm not sure I'd offer this as something that helps 'close the gap' with PS4. It also has hardware to decompress assets without bothering the CPU or GPU.
 

ekim

Member
Which is great, but I'm not sure I'd offer this as something that helps 'close the gap' with PS4. It also has hardware to decompress assets without bothering the CPU or GPU.

I didn't know that. You have a link or something at your disposal?
 

velociraptor

Junior Member
Personally I don't see how sub elements of the Xbox will mitigate the substantial GPU advantage the PS4 holds. It's 50% more powerful in raw performance alone. No amount of hardware scaling, audio chips and data move engines will do anything to achieve the same resolution or framerate that the PS4 may be capable of. Remember the Edge quote? 1080p 30FPS vs 900p 20-something FPS.

I sit like 4 feet away from my tv because games are so blurry these days. Trying to play BF3 on PS3/360 is just baaad. Trying to see people with so few pixels... gotta sit close to see the single pixel that represents a person on the other side of a map that's shooting at you...
And yet there are some out there who think resolution doesn't matter. Heh.

Higher resolutions will always look superior to lower resolutions, irrespective of TV viewing distance.
 
There's actually a decent amount of merit to the argument. Most consumers can't tell the difference between 480 upscaled, 720p, and 1080p unless they're literally right next to each other.

Well didn't you just bombed the shit out of the argument? By saying most consumers can't notice the difference between 480 upscaled and 1080p, which isn't even based on any sort of statistic, then you are just saying that most consumers wouldn't notice the difference between a Wii U and a Xbox One.

I can also say that if I sit 10 feet away from my 27"" T.V, I won't notice the difference between Bf3 on maximum on the PC, and BF3 on the PS3. What does that mean in the end?
 

foxbeldin

Member
Higher resolutions will always look superior to lower resolutions, irrespective of TV viewing distance.

And size !
I can remember people saying you couldn't tell the difference between 1080p and 720p under 32 inches. Well guess what, i can tell the difference on 4 inches smartphones...
 
Even once the consoles are released were not going to have any closure on this. If I am understanding things correctly, the Devs for PS4 only knew about the 4 extra gigs of RAM since February. So they have had very little time to really make use of that extra power. The Xbox One isn't really maximizing their potential either due to not being able to fully utilize "The Cloud", and their more complex construction. We're going to be at least the next holidays releases before we are going to see a difference. Not even necessarily then TBH. If the XB1 successfully recovers from their early PR blunders, and somehow manages to maintain parody with Sony in console sales. Titanfall explodes into some kind of mega game like HALO. We're looking at Devs having little choice but to ignore the specs and just port games to PS4, like they did this past generation. I have heard this in other threads. XB1 isn't going to be ignored no matter what the specs are. MS has too much influence with the big players. So a weaker XB1 could be the worst possible news for PS4 owners. Especially early adopters.


That's my concern too. It's only fair that a platform dedicated to mainly gaming is rewarded by games utilizing every ounce of power. There's something inherently wrong with "console parity".
 

Codeblew

Member
I can understand getting the ps4 for exclusives and the extra power. I can't imagine wanting to get it over Xbox one for multiplayer focused games from what we know now.

I dunno. I would gladly take 50% more power on GTA5. Would help the framerate a whole lot.
 
The bottom line is, if you get both consoles and want to buy a multiplatform game, it'd be wiser to get the ps4 version over the x1.

Sites like digital foundry will start losing money as there will be no drama since PS4 will win all face-offs and it will be the same old story in all comparisons.

That's a flat our lie, made up by Xbone fanboys and Penellos's (etc.) spin interviews.
The PS4 is just as "balanced" as the XBone. Maybe even more.

Agree, there no area where xbone is stronger for making better performing multiplatform games. PS4 is more balanced.
 

Skeff

Member
I can understand getting the ps4 for exclusives and the extra power. I can't imagine wanting to get it over Xbox one for multiplayer focused games from what we know now.

From what we know now? you mean seemingly parity in online features or PS4 being superior?
Party chat
Paywall for standard games
multiple profiles logged on to one console
2000 PS4 friends vs. 1000 XBL friends
Offline Co-op available full screen TV and Vita remote play together(!) - see the knack interview.

I'm really struggling to see why multiplayer focused would be better than PS4 from what we know now?

I would love for you to elaborate your, probably purposefully, vague post
 

daman824

Member
Well didn't you just bombed the shit out of the argument? By saying most consumers can't notice the difference between 480 upscaled and 1080p, which isn't even based on any sort of statistic, then you are just saying that most consumers wouldn't notice the difference between a Wii U and a Xbox One.

I can also say that if I sit 10 feet away from my 27"" T.V, I won't notice the difference between Bf3 on maximum on the PC, and BF3 on the PS3. What does that mean in the end?
There is a difference between scene complexity, draw distance, lighting, framerate, physics, ect. and resolution. The average consumer will be able to tell the difference between nextgen and current gen watchdogs. but they most likely wont be able to tell the difference between native 900p upscaled and native 1080p next gen watchdogs. However, that doesn't mean the difference isn't there.
 

daman824

Member
From what we know now? you mean seemingly parity in online features or PS4 being superior?
Party chat
Paywall for standard games
multiple profiles logged on to one console
2000 PS4 friends vs. 1000 XBL friends
Offline Co-op available full screen TV and Vita remote play together(!) - see the knack interview.

I'm really struggling to see why multiplayer focused would be better than PS4 from what we know now?

I would love for you to elaborate your, probably purposefully, vague post
dedicated servers arguably beat out all of those advantages.
 

cyberheater

PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 Xbone PS4 PS4
There is a difference between scene complexity, draw distance, lighting, framerate, physics, ect. and resolution. The average consumer will be able to tell the difference between nextgen and current gen watchdogs. but they most likely wont be able to tell the difference between native 900p upscaled and native 1080p next gen watchdogs. However, that doesn't mean the difference isn't there.
Which is my point.
 
dedicated servers arguably beat out all of those advantages.

Would it surprise you to learn that several PS3 games had dedicated servers, and a lot of Xbox games didn't?

And that only less than 5 games thus far are promising dedicated servers on XB1? ( Titanfall, Forza, Halo, CoD:Ghost)
 

Chobel

Member
Oh man. The denial in this thread that the pure ps4 paper numbers are not all mighty Thor from above and that downplaying of all of Xbox's inherently designed strengths and advantages ...silly man.

same old posts defending the power advantage to the end. Just like most things man, the truth is somewhere in the middle and these machines are as close as any generation ever.


lots of outrage and accusations of parity fixing incoming on DF faceoffs in future.

when in reality the parity comes from MS engineers designing a system that simply doesn't have the same number of CUs as PS but will be able to keep up with and in some cases exceed it.

good luck with the fight. I'll be enjoying all the great games

Oh god!
 

LiquidMetal14

hide your water-based mammals
From what we know now? you mean seemingly parity in online features or PS4 being superior?
Party chat
Paywall for standard games
multiple profiles logged on to one console
2000 PS4 friends vs. 1000 XBL friends
Offline Co-op available full screen TV and Vita remote play together(!) - see the knack interview.

I'm really struggling to see why multiplayer focused would be better than PS4 from what we know now?

I would love for you to elaborate your, probably purposefully, vague post

I would argue that PSN has been just fine with online. There's really no time where I feel crippled like I can't play other than some scheduled maintenance. I think that argument where people perceive XBL as better is a thing of the past but people seem to still cling to it.
 
Jesus fucking christ.

The mental gymnastics some of you make to justify the XB1's weaker hardware is just...wow.

I love it when I run into someone in real life who says "Well, everything I've been reading on the internet says they are on par...." It is like they have access to an entirely differently internet than what most of us have access to. I can see if they want it for the exclusives but if they don't care for the exclusives then it is all about trying to justify a very expensive preorder.
 

Skeff

Member
dedicated servers arguably beat out all of those advantages.

Possibly, but dedicated servers are not xb1 exclusive. your not one of those that think Microsoft are giving free dedicated servers to everyone are you? because I actually have a bridge i'm selling at the moment I could Pm you about.
 

Respawn

Banned
I would argue that PSN has been just fine with online. There's really no time where I feel crippled like I can't play other than some scheduled maintenance. I think that argument where people perceive XBL as better is a thing of the past but people seem to still cling to it.
Yup.
 

daman824

Member
Would it surprise you to learn that several PS3 games had dedicated servers, and a lot of Xbox games didn't?

And that only less than 5 games thus far are promising dedicated servers on XB1? ( Titanfall, Forza, Halo, CoD:Ghost)
MS will probably have dedicated servers for all of their first party games where it would be useful. And they offer them to third parties at a significantly reduced price. Only bf4 has dedis on ps4. It's 5 vs 1 so far.
 
dedicated servers arguably beat out all of those advantages.

If i had to choose between an console only multiplat with focus on multiplayer then X1 seems the version to get because of dedicated server but from what i gathered sony is also making deals with IaaS/HaaS providers like rackspace and amazon if im not mistaken.
Edit: Off course big part has to do with friends console choice most of my gaming friends have opted to stay with Microsoft next gen i will only get the cods and some console exclusives(launch) like GTA 5 the rest either double dip on pc or pc only for multiplats.
 
MS will probably have dedicated servers for all of their first party games where it would be useful. And they offer them to third parties at a significantly reduced price. Only bf4 has dedis on ps4. It's 5 vs 1 so far.

Cod:ghost devs have not said that the ps4 won't have dedicated servers. The dedicated server argument is a little too early to start trumpeting. This situation really isn't fully fleshed out by either side right now.
 

Doc Evils

Member
Oh man. The denial in this thread that the pure ps4 paper numbers are not all mighty Thor from above and that downplaying of all of Xbox's inherently designed strengths and advantages ...silly man.

same old posts defending the power advantage to the end. Just like most things man, the truth is somewhere in the middle and these machines are as close as any generation ever.


lots of outrage and accusations of parity fixing incoming on DF faceoffs in future.

when in reality the parity comes from MS engineers designing a system that simply doesn't have the same number of CUs as PS but will be able to keep up with and in some cases exceed it.

good luck with the fight. I'll be enjoying all the great games

I'm guessing you're the type of person that thinks a GTR is the same level as a Mustang?
 

daman824

Member
Possibly, but dedicated servers are not xb1 exclusive. your not one of those that think Microsoft are giving free dedicated servers to everyone are you? because I actually have a bridge i'm selling at the moment I could Pm you about.
No, but when MS spends so much time boasting about dedicated servers, and 5 x1 games have dedicated servers while only one ps4 game has them, I'd call it an advantage.
 

Chobel

Member
MS will probably have dedicated servers for all of their first party games where it would be useful. And they offer them to third parties at a significantly reduced price. Only bf4 has dedis on ps4. It's 5 vs 1 so far.

I'm not sure how counting exclusives helps here. So it's 1-0 now (COD).
 

daman824

Member
Cod:ghost devs have not said that the ps4 won't have dedicated servers. The dedicated server argument is a little too early to start trumpeting. This situation really isn't fully fleshed out by either side right now.
MS has stated that they give thirf party devs discouts for dedicated servers on x1 versions of their games. They probably give first party devs free use of dedicated servers. That is a benifit.
 
MS will probably have dedicated servers for all of their first party games where it would be useful. And they offer them to third parties at a significantly reduced price. Only bf4 has dedis on ps4. It's 5 vs 1 so far.

So will Sony for their first-party titles. Driveclub is confirmed to have dedis. KZ isn't confirmed yet, though they said they're addressing that soon. And there's actually a fair chance CoD: Ghost will also have dedis on PS4, since they refuse to say it's exclusive to XB1.

And offering them for significantly reduced prices doesn't mean devs will utilise it. It's still additional cost, especially if publishers already have their own server resources, not to mention needing to specifically code the game differently for XB1 compared to other platforms.

Until a significant uptake of MS's dedicated servers from 3rd-party titles happen, this advantage is only a potential.
 

daman824

Member
I'm not sure how counting exclusive helps here. So it's 1-0 now (COD).
Ah i see, I thought he said multiplayer focused, not multiplatform focused. My bad. Either way, MS gives third parties discounts on dedicated servers. That is an advantage for the xbox.
 

Knuf

Member
Jesus fucking christ.

The mental gymnastics some of you make to justify the XB1's weaker hardware is just...wow.

If you already shelled out some money to have your favourite console at launch, would you now accept the fact that you're paying more money for a far weaker gaming hardware?
Well, welcome to relativism! :)
 
MS has stated that they give thirf party devs discouts for dedicated servers on x1 versions of their games. They probably give first party devs free use of dedicated servers. That is a benifit.

So you're saying Sony won't be able to provide 1st party dedicated servers? The discounted servers MS is offering is the only known advantage, but could possibly be matched by Sony. Until we see who takes advantage of it and if there is a real gap in the number of games with dedicated servers on the X1 vs the PS4, that boast is quite premature.
 

Skeff

Member
MS will probably have dedicated servers for all of their first party games where it would be useful. And they offer them to third parties at a significantly reduced price. Only bf4 has dedis on ps4. It's 5 vs 1 so far.

CoD likely will, when asked they didn't say no which lines up with their marketing strategy.

Planetside 2
DC:UO
EQNext
Destiny
The Division
War Thunder

All obviously have dedicated servers as they are MMO's not sure where you got the 5 for xbox one though.
 
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