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[MightySquirrel]

You could have build a PC in 2018 that beats ps5.

 

[recursive]

The percentage is low, but it's still overall a lot of people. This upcoming console generation with XSX and PS5 is a little different than last gen since these new consoles have way better specs out of the gate vs the average PC gamer specs today, compared to the launch PS4 and X1 specs vs the average PC gamer specs in 2013.

ppl don't make it seem like everyone has titans. The areas on the internet where people actually give a shit about this kind of stuff will naturally have more enthusiasts who naturally will probably have better gear than the average joe. They're also doing a lot of theorycrafting. The nature of the discussion as well as who is partaking in that discussion drastically shapes the perception of that discussion.

Anyway.

Some numbers for thought. According to that Reddit post about the DF video:

3% of Steam users have a GPU that is better than next gen. I dunno what the current total number of overall users are, but last year, there were 1 billion.

3% of 1 billion is 3 million current Steam users who currently have better than next gen hardware. Keep in mind that this number is also not representative of the entire PC userbase, but we only have so much to work with.

7% have an 8 core CPU, which is 7 million users.

So,

Steam users with better GPU than next gen: 3 million
Steam users with 8-core CPU: 7 million
First year-ish sales of PS4: 18.5 million
First year-ish sales of X1: 10 million
Total sales of PS4: 108.9 million
Total sales of X1: 46.9 million (estimated)

It'll be interesting to see how the numbers play out this fall and over the next year. There are some factors that are still the same as they were in 2013, but some are different. Personally I like how consoles this upcoming gen are pushing the envelope way more than in 2013.

3% of 1b is 30M. Recommend checking your math.

 

[Rentahamster]

3% of 1b is 30M. Recommend checking your math.

Lmfao oops, thanks

 

[Azurro]

Ps5 is $333.33 confirmed? Where did you get that information from? Do we need a mod in here to get you vetted status?

It's interesting to know that everyone who is not directly affiliated with Xbox and PS, aren't spreading FUD about PC and next gen games. No devs are saying they won't release x,y,z game on PC because of its supposed "lacking i/o subsystems". A matter a fact, how are all games going to run on PC from Microsoft? Aren't all exclusives coming to PC via MS themselves? Weren't some of the most impressive showcases from Sony's conference, also confirmed to be on PC? I wonder how that would be possible without these motherboard upgrades. Makes you wonder, huh?

Now tell me how you can run Photoshop, video editors, 3D modeling software, audio production tools, or even a basic internet browser from your ps5? Or will you be limited to strictly games, Netflix, and Spotify? There's a reason why PC is an open platform.

Well, MS said their games would be cross gen for two years right? Third party publishers themselves wil mostly publish cross gen titles during this time, right?

The baseline of the SSD speed will be the Xbox Series X, since it's the "slowest" one, so I guess developers will start requiring that after these couple of years, once more people have PCI Express 4.0 motherboards and faster SSDs.

I didn't make the argument that you can go without a PC to be able to do that, but let's be honest, the majority of PC builds meant for video processing, coding and such are a minority.

Most gaming PCs are toys for gaming that go vroom, vroom.

 

[iHaunter]

Getting the PS5 level SSD right now will cost more than PS5. The diminishing returns are very high.

 

[DoctaThompson]

Well, MS said their games would be cross gen for two years right? Third party publishers themselves wil mostly publish cross gen titles during this time, right?

The baseline of the SSD speed will be the Xbox Series X, since it's the "slowest" one, so I guess developers will start requiring that after these couple of years, once more people have PCI Express 4.0 motherboards and faster SSDs.

I didn't make the argument that you can go without a PC to be able to do that, but let's be honest, the majority of PC builds meant for video processing, coding and such are a minority.

Most gaming PCs are toys for gaming that go vroom, vroom.

Cross-gen is between Xbox one and Series X. Nothing to do with losing support for PC. As matter a fact, it was specifically stated verbatim:

"As our content comes out over the next year, two years, all of our games, sort of like PC, will play up and down that family of devices," Booty said. "We want to make sure that if someone invests in Xbox between now and [Series X] that they feel that they made a good investment and that we're committed to them with content."

What does that mean? It means Xbox one will be supported after the release of series X, and that the platform will be similar to PC, which can play older titles or next gen titles. All exclusives are coming to PC. And Sony is following the same strategy. How will ps5 games run on PC if it's SSD is faster than anything on PC?!

Why haven't hardware manufacturer jumped at the idea of this to make easy money from the PC market? I'll tell you a secret, because the systems operate completely different. Consoles don't have dedicated system memory, and manufacturers aren't going to nerf/downgrade the way motherboards are made. PC's won't ditch dedicated system memory, only to replace it with VRAM. This should be obvious.

 

[Azurro]

Cross-gen is between Xbox one and Series X. Nothing to do with losing support for PC. As matter a fact, it was specifically stated verbatim:



What does that mean? It means Xbox one will be supported after the release of series X, and that the platform will be similar to PC, which can play older titles or next gen titles. All exclusives are coming to PC. And Sony is following the same strategy. How will ps5 games run on PC if it's SSD is faster than anything on PC?!

Why haven't hardware manufacturer jumped at the idea of this to make easy money from the PC market? I'll tell you a secret, because the systems operate completely different. Consoles don't have dedicated system memory, and manufacturers aren't going to nerf/downgrade the way motherboards are made. PC's won't ditch dedicated system memory, only to replace it with VRAM. This should be obvious.

Ah, I probably shouldn't bother, because given your replies I can tell you don't understand anything about technical requirements, other than probably a shopping list at newegg, so I'll just keep it simple: cross gen with Xbox One means the games will be designed with the limitations of the Xbox One in mind, which means Series X games won't take full advantage of XSX and its improved I/O subsystem.

So, PC gamers won't need to upgrade anything, since those Series X games are effectively current gen games, just with settings sliders turned up and some extra graphical features that don't affect the design of the game much. Once XSX is the baseline, that's when the requirements on PC will go up.

 

[DoctaThompson]

Ah, I probably shouldn't bother, because given your replies I can tell you don't understand anything about technical requirements, other than probably a shopping list at newegg, so I'll just keep it simple: cross gen with Xbox One means the games will be designed with the limitations of the Xbox One in mind, which means Series X games won't take full advantage of XSX and its improved I/O subsystem.

So, PC gamers won't need to upgrade anything, since those Series X games are effectively current gen games, just with settings sliders turned up and some extra graphical features that don't affect the design of the game much. Once XSX is the baseline, that's when the requirements on PC will go up.

I don't think you understand anything about technical requirements. If some of the most impressive games at the Sony conference are launching on ps5 and PC same day, how would PC handle it without these new motherboards and specialized i/o you speak of? The ps5 has a faster SSD than both series x and PC. So how could those same games launch on PC as well? You keep avoiding answering that. Look at the multiplatform games from the conference, and explain why PC cannot run these games, yet are releasing for PC. Sony isn't doing the crossgen thing, which is where your argument completely falls flat.

Manufacturers aren't going back to the drawing board, and redesigning PC from the ground up by removing dedicated system ram for only VRAM. They aren't unifying the overall bandwidth between all of the components, etc. This is where you fail to realize the difference in how PC and consoles function.

 

[Azurro]

You like to argue by putting words in people's mouths. Some of the most impressive titles were Horizon 2 and Ratchet and Clank, I didn't know those were coming to PC, but apparently you have better information.

Now please, just stick to your Newegg shopping cart instead D DoctaThompson , don't forget to go "vroom vroom!".

 

[DoctaThompson]

You like to argue by putting words in people's mouths. Some of the most impressive titles were Horizon 2 and Ratchet and Clank, I didn't know those were coming to PC, but apparently you have better information.

Now please, just stick to your Newegg shopping cart instead D DoctaThompson , don't forget to go "vroom vroom!".

Ironic as you just put words in my mouth.

Several outlets have stated other games were more impressive, like DF for instance. And those multiplatform are still coming to PC, as well as ExClUsIvEs from both sides. Not sure why you are so upset about this though? Why are you triggered that other people get to play these games on other hardware platforms? I thought we were better than that as gamers?

Do you get mad when someone else has the same phone, car, or tv as you? If not, you wouldn't be mad that everyone gets to be apart of next gen gaming, including PC players. The sooner you can accept that, the less it will hurt your feelings.

 

[Azurro]

I can tell you what titles I found most impressive, and those were Ratchet and Clank due to its impressive use of the SSD, and Horizon 2 due to the sheer amount of detail on screen is mindboggling, o have similar titles on PC will take a while. What your hand picked outlets care I don't really care about, including DF (outside of John's awesome retro episodes).

Anyway, what needed to be said was said, you have pretty much no idea of what is required and what isn't. Now go be a good boy and vroom vroom in front of your PC D DoctaThompson .

 

[DoctaThompson]

I can tell you what titles I found most impressive, and those were Ratchet and Clank due to its impressive use of the SSD, and Horizon 2 due to the sheer amount of detail on screen is mindboggling, o have similar titles on PC will take a while. What your hand picked outlets care I don't really care about, including DF (outside of John's awesome retro episodes).

Anyway, what needed to be said was said, you have pretty much no idea of what is required and what isn't. Now go be a good boy and vroom vroom in front of your PC D DoctaThompson .

Don't be this guy when you finally realize why you have been wrong this whole time.

Can't wait to play some exclusives and multiplats this year! And I'll bookmark this post to remind you of how petty it is spread FUD about things you don't even know. Night night, sleep tight, don't let the bed bugs bite.

 

[Azurro]

I find curious that you think that you somehow won an argument. Is that how you deal with your daily interactions? Put words in people's mouths and then pat yourself in the back? Very curious. Anyway, to me you are a very good boy D DoctaThompson .

 

[Kerlurk]

Gaming Discussion

Video game news, industry analysis, sales figures, deals, impressions, reviews, and discussions of everything in the medium, covering all platforms, genres, and territories.

www.neogaf.com

 

[DoctaThompson]

I find curious that you think that you somehow won an argument. Is that how you deal with your daily interactions? Put words in people's mouths and then pat yourself in the back? Very curious. Anyway, to me you are a very good boy D DoctaThompson .

Ahem.... And this is on an older Intel skylake CPU, single core.

Hopefully you'll stop spreading the FUD and can take this time to learn a thing or two to ensure it doesn't happen anymore. I will not be going back and forth with you any longer, as this has already won the argument. Prove him wrong if you can. Pretty sure he knows more about this than some random console warrior online.

 

[Rikkori]

Since we now know the I/O special sauce in the PS5 will be done on the GPU, we can finally build a PS5 equivalent.

Here you go, optimised for cost:

PCPartPicker Part List

CPU: AMD Ryzen 7 3700X 3.6 GHz 8-Core Processor ($274.49 @ Amazon)
Motherboard: ASRock B550 Phantom Gaming 4 ATX AM4 Motherboard ($104.99 @ Newegg)
Memory: G.Skill Aegis 16 GB (2 x 8 GB) DDR4-3200 CL16 Memory ($58.99 @ Newegg)
Storage: Sabrent Rocket 4.0 1 TB M.2-2280 NVME Solid State Drive ($199.98 @ Amazon)
Video Card: MSI GeForce RTX 2070 8 GB VENTUS GP Video Card ($409.99 @ B&H)
Case: GameMax Kage ATX Mid Tower Case ($41.95 @ Amazon)
Power Supply: be quiet! Pure Power 11 500 W 80+ Gold Certified ATX Power Supply ($69.90 @ B&H)
Total: $1160.29
Prices include shipping, taxes, and discounts when available
Generated by PCPartPicker 2020-06-19 01:34 EDT-0400

It will probably be $300-$400 cheaper next year once new GPUs are out, more SSDs are out 4.0 (so cheaper), and general lower cost for 8 core CPU & mobo, and likely we can also get a better PSU for the same cost since those are overpriced right now due to corona (or simply pay less for this one).

PC builders next year are in for a TREAT!

 

[Allnamestakenlol]

Short answer, yes; long answer, more or less.

 

[PaintTinJr]

Since we now know the I/O special sauce in the PS5 will be done on the GPU, we can finally build a PS5 equivalent.

,,,,

How do you make that leap?

The IO complex and how it enables software rendering GI of 20m polys/frame from more than 1 Billiion/frame is significantly more than the ability to run a decompression algorithm in real-time on a compute unit - otherwise the PS3 has all PS5 special sauce in just one SPU.

The guy talking about his compression algorithm variant of zlib makes no mention of latency on GPU or the algorithm's ability to workaround lumen and nanite using GPU compute asynchronously with fixed path shaders and RT/rasterization running also - as is the design of UE5 demo running on PS5.

Zlib decompression with compute isn't new, the IO complex providing a latency removing system that can also retrieve compressed data without the need to unpack a complete asset for, is a little different than just unpacking a model into a PC's vram.

 

[Faenrir]

You can easily build a PC that rivals/surpasses the next-gen consoles.
Of course, you will probably pay close to double the amount of a console. But a PC is capable of doing more than just gaming.

At this point, consoles are essentially a "budget-friendly" version of a PC.
This recent video from Digital Foundry puts into perspective how underwhelming the next gen consoles will be... I miss the days of huge generational leaps. SNES to N64. N64 to Gamecube. PS2 to PS3.

Exactly. They're plug and play, cheap PC for lazy / poor people basically.
Not that it's wrong. But you'll always be able to build a better PC if they keep this trend. I miss the days when consoles had unique architectures with very specific parts and capabilities.

 

[Rikkori]

How do you make that leap?

The IO complex and how it enables software rendering GI of 20m polys/frame from more than 1 Billiion/frame is significantly more than the ability to run a decompression algorithm in real-time on a compute unit - otherwise the PS3 has all PS5 special sauce in just one SPU.

That's due to mesh shaders, which the GPU has tho that's not GI. The GI part doesn't depend on the i/o hence why equivalent or better GI is already available on PC in various games (SVOGI in KCD, Rtgi in Metro Exodus etc).



Nanite doesn't yet use mesh shader to accelerate it but they will so we'll have to see how the stats play out. Considering how far from release it is, it doesn't matter too much.

 

[PaintTinJr]

That's due to mesh shaders, which the GPU has tho that's not GI. The GI part doesn't depend on the i/o hence why equivalent or better GI is already available on PC in various games (SVOGI in KCD, Rtgi in Metro Exodus etc).



Nanite doesn't yet use mesh shader to accelerate it but they will so we'll have to see how the stats play out. Considering how far from release it is, it doesn't matter too much.

The UE5 demo on the PS5 mostly uses async compute for everything but the character model(and anything animated IIRC) which hardly touches the fixed path processing of the PS5 AFAIK.

It is the IO complex + async compute producing graphics superior to anything on PC at present that you have to build a PC to match, and somehow have enough in reserve to still add rasterized graphics better than the PS5's RDNA2 GPU.

If you tie up your GPU compute doing decompression, that's going to make scheduling harder to use nanite, lumen and fixed path deferred rendering to match a PS5 with software that exploits those benefits to REYES + rasterization/rt/etc.

You are still arguing against people like Cerny and Sweeney that could buy and sell 99.9%(IMHO) of the industry on knowledge/experience and thinking you know better.

 

[Max_Po]

Can you? Yeah quite easily.

It's expensive though.

My PC wipes the floor with the PS5 and even XSX specs. 9900k at 5.1ghz across 8/16 cores. 32gb ram. 2tb nvme ssd. Rtx 2080 ti. Plays games at 1440p 144hz or 4k 60hz. Some games 4k 144hz.

Let us know when all the developers in the world drop everything they are doing and make games around your rig...

R O F L

 

[Rikkori]

The UE5 demo on the PS5 mostly uses async compute for everything but the character model(and anything animated IIRC) which hardly touches the fixed path processing of the PS5 AFAIK.

It is the IO complex + async compute producing graphics superior to anything on PC at present that you have to build a PC to match, and somehow have enough in reserve to still add rasterized graphics better than the PS5's RDNA2 GPU.

If you tie up your GPU compute doing decompression, that's going to make scheduling harder to use nanite, lumen and fixed path deferred rendering to match a PS5 with software that exploits those benefits to REYES + rasterization/rt/etc.

You are still arguing against people like Cerny and Sweeney that could buy and sell 99.9%(IMHO) of the industry on knowledge/experience and thinking you know better.

Argument from authority has no effect on me. Stick to the facts and don't try to sell me on something we have no access to as if we did. Talk to me about how special what PS5 is doing with UE5 once those are out. I gave you examples of games with great tech that are out RIGHT NOW on PC - where's your PS5 & UE5? Last I checked you don't even know what the PS5 fully looks like because they've shown only some angles.

 

[PaintTinJr]

Argument from authority has no effect on me. Stick to the facts and don't try to sell me on something we have no access to as if we did. Talk to me about how special what PS5 is doing with UE5 once those are out. I gave you examples of games with great tech that are out RIGHT NOW on PC - where's your PS5 & UE5? Last I checked you don't even know what the PS5 fully looks like because they've shown only some angles.

The examples you gave are of large AA studios. UE5 will power most of next-gen console AAA games on both console systems, so listening to the facts about the PS5 hardware from Cerny and the facts about UE5 technology nanite and lumen that powers UE5 demo on the PS5 from Sweeney are not arguments of authority. They have delivered the facts that people like yourself are wilfully ignoring because you are too invested in one platform - rather than realise that this could all be very good for PC, too - when the IO on PC catches up to the PS5.

 

[D.Final]

Getting the PS5 level SSD right now will cost more than PS5. The diminishing returns are very high.

Yeah
But if you have money