Eh, I dunno about that one. He is a carbon copy of "that breaking bad guy" in damn near everything I've seen him in lately, to include Mando and The Gentlemen, so I hope he has a new character that is more than precise diction.
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Captain America: Brave New World | Official Trailer
- Thread starter HRK69
- Start date
ForAcademicPurposes
Member
Isn't his face like freezing up there? I'm cold right now actually.
AJUMP23
Parody of actual AJUMP23
Why are these people so insufferable. American audiences make you wealthy beyond your wildest dreams and you loathe the place you live and what the give you.
Lord Panda
The Sea is Always Right
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RagnarokIV
Battlebus imprisoning me \m/ >.< \m/
Woke is dying, mate. Nobody wants to hear it, just let it go and promote the movie.
"Wait wait just watch, this brave last one will knock 'em dead!!"
BlackTron
Member
Well there goes any chance I ever had of watching the movie. He should never have been Captain America.
They confronted the elephant in the room in the show, where he was hesitant to take on the mantle of Captain because he is black, and made this conflict a theme of the show.
Now, with all eyes on you as black cap'n, when you need to stick the landing that there's no difference between black and white, you say the most insufferable shit that will always make you look terrible next to the "real" Captain America.
I resent what an idiot he is.
They confronted the elephant in the room in the show, where he was hesitant to take on the mantle of Captain because he is black, and made this conflict a theme of the show.
Now, with all eyes on you as black cap'n, when you need to stick the landing that there's no difference between black and white, you say the most insufferable shit that will always make you look terrible next to the "real" Captain America.
I resent what an idiot he is.
I'd like to see the rest of that clip. Mackie seems pretty chill and reasonable in interviews, I'm willing to give him the benefit of the doubt that his was juuuust about to qualify that statement and that's why it cuts off so abruptly mid-sentence.
Doom85
Member
Yeah, how dare he! Captain America, especially Steve Rogers, has NEVER criticized the perfect nation of Ameri-
This was written in 1984, mind you.
Maybe Mackie could have phrased it better, but any Cap doesn’t blindly follow his nation, but rather what the nation should stand for ideally (this was reinforced in another Cap comic written by Frank Miller). For fucks’ sake, did Civil War, the comic or movie, not make that abundantly clear?
And even if he meant in a different way:
He’s not a screenwriter for the movie. I would let this influence my decision in seeing the movie as much as I would let Tom Cruise being a believer of Scientology influence my decision to see the next Mission Impossible.
As in not at all. Funny how certain people used to repeatedly say, “separate the art from the artist” but don’t seem to say it as often anymore since they realized they couldn’t be consistent in that if they wanted to devote their life to a stupid culture “war”.
This was written in 1984, mind you.
Maybe Mackie could have phrased it better, but any Cap doesn’t blindly follow his nation, but rather what the nation should stand for ideally (this was reinforced in another Cap comic written by Frank Miller). For fucks’ sake, did Civil War, the comic or movie, not make that abundantly clear?
And even if he meant in a different way:
He’s not a screenwriter for the movie. I would let this influence my decision in seeing the movie as much as I would let Tom Cruise being a believer of Scientology influence my decision to see the next Mission Impossible.
As in not at all. Funny how certain people used to repeatedly say, “separate the art from the artist” but don’t seem to say it as often anymore since they realized they couldn’t be consistent in that if they wanted to devote their life to a stupid culture “war”.
GymWolf
Member
Charismaless dumbass, i hope the movie make 1000 yen total.
DeepEnigma
Gold Member
Is this before or after she "makes daddy a sandwich?"
BlackTron
Member
I mean...precisely? Captain America is great precisely because he questions authority and sticks to his guns. The point is supposed to be that's American. He's cut from a 1940's cloth and is utterly unshakable. It's a symbol of what America is supposed to be, even when it isn't. That's why he's a role model, and "we need him".
I think it's disingenuous to try and separate those values from being American ones as that's the entire point of the character.
Doom85
Member
So in Civil War, being a fugitive from the American government, not to mention the U.N., is “American”?
Like, I sort of see what you mean, but I think Steve himself always valued his views of right and wrong over any loyalty to his country.
The way I see it, Mackie is likely saying (but poorly phrasing) that the values he listed, honor, dignity, integrity, SHOULD be American, but sometimes the American government and even some of the American people don’t reflect that all the time. It’s extremely naive to think ANY country is always upholding those values. So the idea is that the mantle should represent those values but it shouldn’t automatically represent “America” because that would imply America, or any country for that matter, is always upholding those values, which is just not true, and history is a clear indication of this. EVERY country has some skeletons in their closets.
So in short, it’s better to say Captain America represents these good values, but we shouldn’t say Cap automatically represents “America” because America or any country can be less than ideal in different periods of time, in the past and future. A Captain America represents what the best of us as Americans should strive to be as a moral person, but that will never reflect the nation, in its government and its people, entirely all the time. Look to the one holding the shield as one to aspire to as an American, not as one who automatically represents how the country is at any time.
Like I said in an earlier post, Mackie might not have meant it like what I just said, but I don’t think it’s an unreasonable interpretation, and it’s consistent with how Steve and Sam have behaved at times in the comics.
Come On Tars
Member
Enjoy your flop A. Mackie
BlackTron
Member
Valuing your own view of right and wrong over the government are exactly the American values Cap is supposed to represent.
That's how America got here to begin with.
SmokedMeat
Gamer™
I’ve never been less interested in a big Marvel movie, than this.
MayauMiao
Member
I dunno, I think an ACTUAL 40's era Steve Rogers would be a far cry from what we saw with Chris Evans. Even a nerdy scrawny kid from Brooklyn or whatever has prejudices and behaviors that would clash with the MCU caricature we got. Steve in the MCU is virtually monastic in his devotion and focus, he stands out quite a bit from the other MCU characters because of this, he is almost like a DC character in that respect. Trying to pass the mantle of "Captain America" in that context is gonna be EXTREMELY hard because Steven wasn't really a complete person and certainly didn't exist independent of his heroic alter-ego. There is no "role" to play, it was just who he was due to his super-serum privilege. I don't see how or even why Sam would care to assume that role if his vision of America wasn't as crystal clear and unshakable as Steves. Flipping the script from "idealized 40's wholesome values meets squirrely modern corruption of those values" to "skeptical of an honest appearance and SURPRISE it turns out that skepticism was well placed" doesn't have nearly the narrative value. Sam throwing the shield around doesn't make him Captain America. Championing trendy social causes, which I'm sure will be in this film, doesn't either.
Chuck Berry
Gold Member
Case in point, The Hurt Locker. He was fucking fantastic in that.
(Just rewatched recently)
Pagusas
Elden Member
Wow... Fuck you mate. Mantel should be stripped off him instantly and given to someone who appreciates it.
Kacho
Gold Member
I always thought Mackie was one of the more reasonable Hollywood actors. Shame.
spookyfish
Member
It's true. Now his name is "Captain Movie Cost $500 Million In Just Production Budget Alone Holy SH T We're Gonna Lose So. Much. Money. On This" now.
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I guess he didn't get Bob's memo.
HoodWinked
Member
Is it some kind of mandate that he had to out woke Chris Evans now that he became Captain America. Insanity since Mackie had always been one of the few sensible actors on that roster. WTF happened.
ProtoByte
Weeb Underling
Eh, this is a pretty purposefully ragebaiting cut of the clip, and a mealy mouthed response from Mackey. Not the best phrasing, but I understand it, speaking as someone with no interest in watching this movie. Of course though, the End Wokeness account is obviously going to jump on this. It's funny because Mackey talks about boys imagining that they're saving a princess from a dragon, which is pretty "trad".
I definitely don't think the best interpretations of Cap are an American Avatar, whatever that would mean to a given person. Actually, those are the worst interpretations.
Captain America is Steve Rogers, it's not a mantle. I don't think Bucky should've had the shield either; Bucky is Winter Soldier. It never made any sense for either him or Sam to take up the shield.
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ChuckeRearmed
Member
I think probably originally the Captain America supposed to represent the symbol but over the years it has become ingrained into psyche that the Captain America is Steve Rogers. Plus the first three phases were great and Captain American has become a synonymous to Steve Rogers (again). And Chris Evans played that character great.
I am not even sure if there was successful transitions for superheroes where the "mantle" was transferred to somebody else. Miles Morales seems like to be a decent attempt? And pretty successful too.
Plus post first three phases the MCU has run out of steam. I do curious how the movie is going to perform. It is so disjointed that they can make Snow White as a part of MCU and it won't change anything.
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Doom85
Member
There have been four major Flashes, not to mention other members of the Flash family.
Countless Green Lanterns of the Earth sector.
Two Batmen (Dick Grayson held the mantle for a while)
Four Robins.
Three Batgirls.
Multiple Supergirls.
Three Wondergirls.
Three Blue Beetles.
Two Green Arrows.
Multiple Atoms.
Multiple Dr. Fates.
Two Mr. Terrifics.
Two Firestorms.
Multiple Spider-man/woman (Miles isn’t even the first Spider-man after Peter, that would be Ben and Miguel)
Two Ant-mans.
Two Wasps.
Two Ms. Marvels.
Two Hawkeyes.
Two Black Panthers (not counting the prior generations of BPs).
Two Human Torches (Stan Lee based Johnny off an existing Golden Age character).
Several Ghost Riders.
Multiple Green Goblins.
Multiple Venoms.
Donald mac Ronald
Member
Any chance we can see the full video instead of the editted click bait, although the outrage has already happened.
Mackie to scrawny for cap anyway.
DeafTourette
Perpetually Offended
Captain America represents traits that AMERICA should strive towards. He hasn't represented America for a loooong time. He represents honor, dignity and integrity that America and Americans should strive towards.
He's right.
TDiddyLive
Member
Mackie lacks main character energy. He’s always been fine as a side character with bits and pieces here and there, but not as the main focus. Falcon and Winter Soldier was a pain to get through as it was with him sharing the lead, but with him as the main lead, I had already been on the fence about seeing this new movie in theaters. After this crap, this will be only the second MCU movie I will be have skipped in theaters, with The Marvels being the first.
The framing here is the notion that America NEVER reached its ideals, and in fact was NEVER EVEN CLOSE. That is the sticking point for lots of us because objectively America HAS been a beacon of hope, freedom, and opportunity and the ideals espoused by the founding fathers HAVE been true for millions upon millions of americans for centuries. Clearly there were some where that took longer to be realized but to say that America was always a shiny shell around a rotten core, which is how its depicted a lot these days, is just odious and gross, as its coming from the very platform of strength and security America created in the first place.
So Captain A against the deep state, or the mil-indust complex, or secret fascists within the gov, thats ok. But to say that Captain America stands for an idealized America but not the very land and people there now is just a horrible take (and not I think what he was trying to say). I sort of would expect a black American to have a very different idea of America than a white one, or a recent immigrant versus a generational dweller, or an indigenous person still tied to a culture that was brutally supplanted. I'm not sure some of these viewpoints are the best for Captain America, IMHO. There should be little to no cynicism in there and I think modern writers couldn't help but inject it.
Doom85
Member
You know what, maybe Anthony Mackie was in the wrong. Just MAKE your movie. Maybe people shouldn’t even suggest AMERICA isn’t always GREAT. It’s not very American, in fact it’s downright unpatriotic! Hopefully he doesn’t say something like this AGAIN.
M….ackie should apologize for what he said.
A….nthony should check himself.
G….ood god, how dare a person who isn’t writing the movie share a political opinion!
A….nd thank god all the people who criticized Mackie for this have always considered America great EVERY SINGLE YEAR.
Certainly none of them have walked around with a bright cap on their head with a four letter acronym slogan that suggests America isn’t great in their eyes during certain periods. Why, if they were doing all that, and yet also criticize Mackie for even suggesting one time that America isn’t always great, why that would make them massive fucking hypocrites.
Thank god that isn’t the case. This has been a totally fair criticism of Mackie, and zero double standards are at play here from anyone who has been triggered, I mean, angry about what he said.
I mean, at least nobody’s trying to cancel him for it. Sure, a bunch of people are now hoping his movie fails (because “separate art from artist” mysteriously vanished a while back, investigators have yet to find its whereabouts) which could negatively affect his career, but that’s KIND OF different, I mean no one blatantly said to just immediately fire hi-
M….ackie should apologize for what he said.
A….nthony should check himself.
G….ood god, how dare a person who isn’t writing the movie share a political opinion!
A….nd thank god all the people who criticized Mackie for this have always considered America great EVERY SINGLE YEAR.
Certainly none of them have walked around with a bright cap on their head with a four letter acronym slogan that suggests America isn’t great in their eyes during certain periods. Why, if they were doing all that, and yet also criticize Mackie for even suggesting one time that America isn’t always great, why that would make them massive fucking hypocrites.
Thank god that isn’t the case. This has been a totally fair criticism of Mackie, and zero double standards are at play here from anyone who has been triggered, I mean, angry about what he said.
I mean, at least nobody’s trying to cancel him for it. Sure, a bunch of people are now hoping his movie fails (because “separate art from artist” mysteriously vanished a while back, investigators have yet to find its whereabouts) which could negatively affect his career, but that’s KIND OF different, I mean no one blatantly said to just immediately fire hi-
DeafTourette
Perpetually Offended
Um... Those are HIS thoughts. Not the movie's. What "modern writers"?
And you're right... Many, if not most, black Americans have a different view of America because of how it's treated us for so long. My mom, sister and brother were alive and cognizant during American apartheid (Jim Crow/segregation) and are NOT in their 100s (the young's favorite talking point about recent history). For many, America has never been great for us (probably even more so with Native Americans and the rampant crime that happens to that population on and off the Rez). Racism never went away ... People who say that never paid attention because it didn't affect them.
I don't think he's saying "America's never been great"... I think what he's saying is Captain America as a PERSON AND SYMBOL is seen as a beacon to world... He's from America but doesn't represent the government or the nation as a whole. Just himself. Who he is.
And Sam embodies the same qualities as Steve (sans super soldier serum). Remember what Dr. Erskine said to Steve?
"I'm not looking for the perfect soldier... But a good man."
And what did Steve say to Sam just before he went to live with Peggy?
"You're a good man, Sam Wilson."
That's why he gave Sam the shield. That's why he's Captain America and not Bucky.
That's why some of the comments are so weird and ridiculous... Clutching their pearls and acting just like SJWs...
Chuck Berry
Gold Member
How can you take anything anyone says seriously when its typed out in fucking Comic Sans
Represent.
Represent(ative) of bad opinions
More fake outrage... Right? I refuse to believe grown men get so worked up about this stuff.
Oh my god anthony mackie said CAP represents more than just america, how could he, i hope the movie is a failure!!1
Oh my god anthony mackie said CAP represents more than just america, how could he, i hope the movie is a failure!!1
Doom85
Member
Well, Bucky is a good man too, but given what he had been through and how he still needed to recover (and the Thunderbolts trailer suggests either his WS programming hasn’t been 100% removed or something else is going on), it would have been highly irresponsible as a friend for Steve to place such a burden on Bucky.
When people suggest Bucky should have been Cap, my first thought is, “so do you hate Bucky and just want him to be overwhelmed mentally, and/or do you think Steve is a shitty friend deep down?”
I’m not opposed to Bucky someday becoming Cap if Sebastian is down with playing the role for years to come, but it definitely shouldn’t be until the character is mentally prepared, and for that matter is better acquainted with many of the Avengers like Sam is (as Bucky barely spoke to anyone besides Steve and Sam in Civil War and Infinity War).
DeafTourette
Perpetually Offended
I think he'll be a variant version of Cap in Doomsday or Secret Wars. He's hinted at such.
Ulysses 31
Member
GateofD
Member
its such a mess now. like the big event is secret wars or whatever, and there's been zero building up to it, and its just gonna happen. Like whatever scraps with had we Kang or Eternals of Shang Chi is so a bunch of nothing at this point.
Compared to the beginnings with the infinity saga, each movie was being steered so tightly with a clear road.
DC is ahead now with total rebooting.
Compared to the beginnings with the infinity saga, each movie was being steered so tightly with a clear road.
DC is ahead now with total rebooting.
DeafTourette
Perpetually Offended
I kinda agree. There's been more hints at Multiverse in the shows than the movies and not too many have seen the shows. And that's a bummer. There's been some genuine gems on D+. Not all, but more than one. IMO. But nothing building to the end of the Multiverse saga. Not even in Deadpool and Wolverine. Or Loki season 2.
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Fair enough. Not sure what the situation was for Mackie, was that a press junket (in which case it can be assumed that he is parroting what PR is telling him to say) or a more casual interview of him personally. Regardless, if you had a black man with the power and authority of Captain America (not really sure what authority he actually has other than what he can get with his fists or from friends, does Cap typically get assigned troops to report to him directly?) then what does he do with it? Does he go all out on BLM and ACAB, essentially acting as an activist enforcer? Or is he in the MLK vein of brotherhood, achieving goals through peace, and gradual resistance? Or does he just support baseball, apple pie, freedom of speech, the right to vote, being a good citizen, supporting authority, and paying taxes like Batman '66? Lots of ways to play CapA, some I think embody the character more. If Falcon is handed a title and a shield but just does his own thing, why call himself Captain America instead of Super Falcon or whatever? What separates the 'generalship', for lack of a better word, of Steve Rodgers AS Cap A in his role as leader of the Avengers/the preferred hitman for America with Sam who perhaps isn't as much of a symbol, a uniter, a shrewd tactician, a charismatic leader and inspiration AND who won't be a lackey for SHIELD, SWORD, or the USA, whoever is actually paying his bills.
Most of this is beyond what a comic needs to concern itself with, but if the BNW film is gonna tackle social issues (which F&WS apparently did) then BWN has a steeeeep hill to climb with viewers already wary of lectures cloaked in capeshit. It's a tough position to be in, no one is gonna go see "Falcon: Brave new World" but if he doesn't act at least a bit like Captain America, then it's just Marvel appropriating the name because they know it will trick folks to show up by trading in on the goodwill created be Chris Evans.
I'm seeing it regardless as the boy insists, but I just hope its a solid action spy film, not a social message with some hulk smash at the end.
I'm not against a more introspective Falcon centered film where he DOES try to reconcile his experiences (whatever they may have been) as a black american with the expectations and responsibilities of Captain America, but that is a HARD writing job and seems like F&WS tried it to dismal results. Better as a comic, novel, or short film, really. Or give it to Tarantino so Falcon can drop 100 N (and F) bombs and he and Sam Jackson can have a blacksploitation style road trip film
Doom85
Member
I see it like this:
-Fantastic Four (film) is the big set up for Avengers: Doomsday
-Avengers Doomsday features plenty of Avengers but is particularly focused on the F4 dealing with Doom. It’s been confirmed Dr. Strange won’t be in Doomsday but will be in Secret Wars, so the F4 won’t have even all the Avnegers helping them just yet
-Secret Wars will have the F4 and the Avengers who were in Doomsday recover from their defeat, and now reunite with the remaining Avengers to face Doom. FOX’s Deadpool and Wolverine will join them. Maybe Maguire and/or Garfield Peter Parkers as well. Loki (TVA variant) could appear. So in this way, these films and shows did end up mattering to Secret Wars.
The only issue is too many new characters introduced and haven’t had enough appearances since. It’ll be several years since we last saw Shang-Chi and Moon Knight for example. But if they show up in Avengers Doomsday, that could help give them more development.
Oh, and by the way:
The YouTube “press” instantly slandering Mackie with clickbait-loving outrage is fittingly ironic. Way to make Mackie even more fitting of the mantle, geniuses.
The YouTube press and such sound as up their own ass as this stupid bitch.
It’s like, “gee, what mental gymnastics and baseless slander can I get away with to destroy this person’s reputation” is kind of a douche-y move.
And I guarantee most of these Youtubers will avoid addressing Mackie’s follow-up comment because it debunks all their bullshit. Or they’ll spin it like he’s backpedaling, as opposed to any sane person who is capable of putting two and two together and knows this is obviously what Mackie meant.
But as a true fan of Captain America, I’ll be seeing Brave New World in theaters. I’m all about Captain America punching some dirtbag in the face, not missing that because some manipulative clickbait-loving tool on YouTube who has 90% likelihood never even read a Captain America comic in their life wants me to get mad over a man having an opinion that’s perfectly rational to anyone who isn’t trying to twist those words into something sinister to serve their own purpose.
See, the issue with a panel like this is Cap A would be standing up to someone who SEEMS noble, but ends up being a total traitorous sleasebag so Cap A was correct all along to put himself out there.I see it like this:
-Fantastic Four (film) is the big set up for Avengers: Doomsday
-Avengers Doomsday features plenty of Avengers but is particularly focused on the F4 dealing with Doom. It’s been confirmed Dr. Strange won’t be in Doomsday but will be in Secret Wars, so the F4 won’t have even all the Avnegers helping them just yet
-Secret Wars will have the F4 and the Avengers who were in Doomsday recover from their defeat, and now reunite with the remaining Avengers to face Doom. FOX’s Deadpool and Wolverine will join them. Maybe Maguire and/or Garfield Peter Parkers as well. Loki (TVA variant) could appear. So in this way, these films and shows did end up mattering to Secret Wars.
The only issue is too many new characters introduced and haven’t had enough appearances since. It’ll be several years since we last saw Shang-Chi and Moon Knight for example. But if they show up in Avengers Doomsday, that could help give them more development.
Oh, and by the way:
It's not like he runs along, destroying dams and redirecting water to save a little fish in a bay because he is prud of the environment.....while a city burns now deprived of water. Rarely are comic characters faced with a truly BAD decision that then haunts them, or shown to make a choice that causes suffering to thousands that is directly put in front of the reader.
I'm not sure superheroes are the best vehicle for a morally grey message as they can often ignore any consequences due to them being, well, SUPER. When the outcomes are largely predetermined then that kind of journey often feels forced and hamfisted.
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