ChuckeRearmed
Member
Fundamentally Captain America is a character from a different era. These days - at least in the western world - it is frown upon to love your own country.
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Captain America: Brave New World | Official Trailer
- Thread starter HRK69
- Start date
Agreed. Steve Rogers is, now anyway, versus his initial series, is a DELIBERATE throw back to "the good old days" and that is his role and purpose in a team. He stands as a "well, it was different in MY day" contrast and that can be a positive or negative thing. Buuuuuuut his physical strength and strong moral compass allow him to be that rock of virtue embodying the heyday of American ideals being exported across the world. Had he been from the 1780s or 1860s then it might be a very different message, but he is from that era where America's sins were largely smoothed over and the image of the country stood in stark contrast to fascism, socialism, communism, and dictators worldwide.
Lord Panda
The Sea is Always Right
The YouTubers are now circling.
Shame as Mackie's arguable faux pas couldn't have come at a worse time. From that clip, I think he realised the hole he had just found himself in, and he was trying to dig himself out.
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ManaByte
Member
Bucky was Cap in the comics before Sam was. It resulted in a courtroom drama where he was put on trail for his actions as the Winter Soldier. These people don't know what they're asking for.
Jinzo Prime
Member
Yes, the Captain America who went insane and brutally murdered people. That's what people want.
I'm confused. Who is this? Is he supposed to be U.S. Agent?
ManaByte
Member
Yes, he’s US Agent.
Ulysses 31
Member
That's John Walker Captain America from Falcon and the Wintersoldier series. He killed a terrorist with his shield shortly after that terrorist killed his buddy.
BlackTron
Member
Even before that happened he was unbelievably lame. Like it was specifically written for you to know he was a shit Captain meant to be replaced from the beginning.
Ulysses 31
Member
Yeah, and the show tried hard to vilify him even when he seemed sensible (IIRC).
DeafTourette
Perpetually Offended
And he still helped in the end.
The reason Sam and Bucky didn't like him as Cap was because he took the mantle for granted. He was basically just working for the government, which, after his awakening, Steve didn't do. Especially not Sam. Bucky ESPECIALLY didn't like Walker because he wasn't given the Shield (which actually wasn't the property of the government because the OG shield was destroyed by Thanos) by Steve... Sam was given it because he embodies the traits Steve has.... Sam is a good man. Walker wasn't. He was just a good soldier.
GateofD
Member
Yea, like John definitely messed up in that big moment, but Bucky and Sam started off hating him to the nth degree. The series really wanted you to hate him, and really wanted you to sympathize the terrorists in the show that was just going around blowing things.
I actually liked the Bucky and Sam dynamic in the show, it be a shame if Bucky didn't show up at all during the movie.
I actually liked the Bucky and Sam dynamic in the show, it be a shame if Bucky didn't show up at all during the movie.
Doom85
Member
-I think John came off as too forward in instantly trying to buddy up to Sam and Bucky which they found off-putting. For all of Bucky’s rival-like attitude towards Sam in the prior movies and early episodes of this show, he fully respected Steve’s choice at the end of Endgame (you even see him nodding in approval when Sam realizes Steve is giving him the shield). John was not picked by Steve, he was picked by the government which took Sam’s handing over the shield and wasted no time instead of preserving it in a museum but rather rushing to pick somebody to be the new Cap. That’s why Bucky and Sam can’t be chill around him.
Dr. Erskine selected Steve to be the man who would become Captain America. Steve chose Sam to continue that legacy. Each was selected because their selector knew them personally and thus knew that they could be trusted with the moral responsibility of what they were being picked for. John, for as fine of a soldier as he might be, was selected by some politicians who don’t know him on a personal level. It makes him feel like a not authentic pick as a result.
Regardless, John does do his best to do the right thing in the last episode, though based on the Thunderbolts trailer, he likely did end up doing more morally shady jobs afterwards
-I feel Bucky could be brought in during the third act to join Sam and Ross to take on The Leader, or at least a post credits sequence to lead into Thunderbolts
ManaByte
Member
Bucky is off with the Thunderbolts now.
Doom85
Member
Anthony Mackie’s Controversial Captain America Quote Mirrors Chris Evans, The Comics
Ahead of the release of Captain America: Brave New World, star Anthony Mackie went viral with his take on what Captain America represents. But he's not wrong.
www.forbes.com
After Seeing This 2011 Chris Evans Interview, I'm Convinced The Anthony Mackie Backlash For His Recent Captain America Comments Is Hypocritical
Anthony Mackie and Chris Evans agree about Cap.
screenrant.com
A 2011 interview from Chris Evans.
As in an interview from FOURTEEN YEARS AGO.
Where he basically says what Anthony Mackie said.
What did I fucking say? DOUBLE STANDARDS.
Now every single Youtuber and other “news” site and such who witch hunted Mackie over nothing best be posting one fast as hell update with an apology for their little bitch behavior (I’m not expecting them to phrase it exactly like that, LOL).
Or they can go even further beyond into Super Saiyan Clown 2 and crucify Chris Evans as well, which, heh heh, we all know that’s unlikely from most of them.
Or they can continue to grift their audience and pretend they haven’t heard about this update which, oh yeah, I’m SO SURE they won’t hear about this, they totally conveniently heard about the Mackie part but didn’t hear about the reminder about what Evans said, sure, sure.
Ooh, it’s so exciting, it’s like a Choose Your Own Adventure: Ragebait Bullshiter Edition!
God, it’s like shooting fish in a barrel. Every time someone tries to say, “nah, only one side on this ‘war’ has people full of shit” or “nah, these Youtubers are legit and not grifters, they always research their stuff properly as opposed to just throwing out ragebait”, let this moment serve as a history lesson.
DeafTourette
Perpetually Offended
Anthony Mackie’s Controversial Captain America Quote Mirrors Chris Evans, The Comics
Ahead of the release of Captain America: Brave New World, star Anthony Mackie went viral with his take on what Captain America represents. But he's not wrong.
After Seeing This 2011 Chris Evans Interview, I'm Convinced The Anthony Mackie Backlash For His Recent Captain America Comments Is Hypocritical
Anthony Mackie and Chris Evans agree about Cap.
A 2011 interview from Chris Evans.
As in an interview from FOURTEEN YEARS AGO.
Where he basically says what Anthony Mackie said.
What did I fucking say? DOUBLE STANDARDS.
Now every single Youtuber and other “news” site and such who witch hunted Mackie over nothing best be posting one fast as hell update with an apology for their little bitch behavior (I’m not expecting them to phrase it exactly like that, LOL).
Or they can go even further beyond into Super Saiyan Clown 2 and crucify Chris Evans as well, which, heh heh, we all know that’s unlikely from most of them.
Or they can continue to grift their audience and pretend they haven’t heard about this update which, oh yeah, I’m SO SURE they won’t hear about this, they totally conveniently heard about the Mackie part but didn’t hear about the reminder about what Evans said, sure, sure.
Ooh, it’s so exciting, it’s like a Choose Your Own Adventure: Ragebait Bullshiter Edition!
God, it’s like shooting fish in a barrel. Every time someone tries to say, “nah, only one side on this ‘war’ has people full of shit” or “nah, these Youtubers are legit and not grifters, they always research their stuff properly as opposed to just throwing out ragebait”, let this moment serve as a history lesson.
This! All of this!
And yes... Many of those rage baiters on YouTube are hypocrites... And SOME of this is due to not wanting Cap to be a black man because that's somehow not possible.
Trogdor1123
Member
People need to chill on the recent comment. It was made in Italy or something and he just said something stupid where I think he was meaning it’s just not one country he represents. It was a stupid comment people need to let go of.
One might say, he needs to do better.
One might say, he needs to do better.
DeafTourette
Perpetually Offended
It was a similar comment Chris Evans gave that received NONE of this backlash...
Professional hypocrites gotta get those clicks in and people need to stop acting like he said something about their momma.
Trogdor1123
Member
Even the folks like the critical drinker were not taking this to heart. They were telling folks it was just a mistake and to relax and I think they are right.
The movie will still suck though but it’s not Anthony’s fault. I like him as an actor and thought he was a good character in the mcu.
DeafTourette
Perpetually Offended
I'm going to try to catch this on day one ... I want to give it the benefit of the doubt and see for myself if it's good or not. I like Sam and I'm excited to see how this turns out.
I'm actually am surprised some are actually not taking the ideological rage bait .. happily surprised!
If that israeli chick they are desperately trying to hide in all the trailers ends up with a buncha cleavage and ass shots like Black Widow in her early films....no one is gonna care what Sam says or does
If anything, the fact that the director of this film has fuck all credits to his name to base any action SFX expectations on should be the most worrying thing. The Cloverfield Paradox is the only thing even remotely in this wheelhouse,,,and has anyone ever heard of it? It smacks of the same "we hire you to do some talky bits while all the action and FX are done by our team" auteur director hiring we saw on The Eternals, The Marvels, and some other MCU stuff, usually with disastrous results. Maybe this guy is another McTiernan, Verhoven, Donner, or Hill and has incredible chops just waiting to blow us away, but the odds suggest otherwise. Almost none of these massive, big budget spectacle films done by directors with limited creds ever ends up well.
ManaByte
Member
DeafTourette
Perpetually Offended
For the people who called that speech cringe or something akin to that, are not understanding what he's saying. And it's a thing among the people who are historically oppressed or disadvantaged because they don't have the power. There are some who will try to rise up against an overwhelming power like the revolutionaries who were themselves called terrorists... But we call them heroes.
NotMyProblemAnymoreCunt
Biggest Trails Stan
That's because it is cringe especially the use of "Do Better". That's usually used by people who are massive pieces of shit and try to put all the blame on another person. Not to mention simping for that girl. I like Sam as Captain America but I don't like the writing in that show. Especially anything involving Sam..
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Doom85
Member
He did give us an awesome quote to use:
Also, still probably my favorite closing scene of the D+ Marvel shows. Not that I mind a setup for future films and such, but just having Sam and Bucky being happy and chilling at a party with friends and family. A satisfying moment to end the season on.
NotMyProblemAnymoreCunt
Biggest Trails Stan
He did give us an awesome quote to use:
Also, still probably my favorite closing scene of the D+ Marvel shows. Not that I mind a setup for future films and such, but just having Sam and Bucky being happy and chilling at a party with friends and family. A satisfying moment to end the season on.
I'm not saying all the writing is bad. There's certain parts I loved like Bucky Sessions with the Therapist and that response is one my favorite lines from the show. Zemo monoluge before that line was perfect too
ManaByte
Member
I dunno, if "hero" in your lexicon encompasses folks who blow up school kids and uses phrases like "they died for a noble cause" when referencing the civilian pop that they use as shields against opposing military force.....yah might wanna reconsider your vocabulary.
The term "terrorist" does get slapped around a little loosely at times, but it's a pretty fucking clear distinction for most of the folks who eaen it. And those very same folks would be OBLITERATED if the major world powers took off the gloves and sunk to their level.
I find it amusing to see the fairly, heh heh, -stark- depiction of terrorists in the first Iron Man film, then to see how the MCU has turned on itself just a decade later.
In the US you mean
DeafTourette
Perpetually Offended
I thought the word "revolutionaries" would tell you I'm talking about America declaring Independence from The UK ... And how the early Americans were called Terrorists back then... Who were fighting against an overwhelming power. I didn't think I needed to spell it out but then again, now that I think about it, modern terrorists DO call themselves "revolutionaries"... Ironic
Sure, but there is definitely a realm of behavior that puts you FIRMLY in the terrorist camp that just can't be written off as "ends justify the means".
Take Colonel Stuart from Die Hard 2. He crashes a plane full of random civilians to make a point. CLEAR terrorist behavior. But the attack on the hospital tac team? Justified. The painters they presumably iced to take over that wing....maybe collateral damage. Now Major Grant kills one of his own men not privy to the "revolutionary effort to free a great man", that's justifiable and a clear military target. McClain blowing up the whole plane...naturally that's just good guy stuff.
Even Red Dawn had this discussion. We can see that the kids only hit military targets and they attempt to minimize civilian casualties. They do not retaliate against civvies that work with the ruskies, only their own who turned traitor (even under duress). The Cuban sympathizes with their plight as it echoes his own and he cautions the Russian about the methods to be used, which does target civilian people and uses collective punishment as a tool. So the MCU really ought to brush up on how they draw their moral lines if they want to play in the messy world of antifa type "peaceful riots" and the like.
DeafTourette
Perpetually Offended
Sam was actively trying to stop Carly, not join up with her. Sam is like Steve in that he wants to NOT have war. He was going to bring Carly in alive... Not kill her. A literal 17 yr old in the story. While her fight was somewhat noble, she went about it all wrong. Especially when she started killing... Look at what they were fighting for: all those displaced by the snap and want to live where they choose, not be rounded up like cattle to places they aren't familiar with. And I understand that. I don't agree with what Carly did... Only a psychopath would.
Sam's whole speech was to get those leaders to "do better" because they DON'T want Carly Morganthou 2.0 ... Which isn't an unreasonable ask. Because that was why all this flagsmashers terrorist business started. Take out the root causes, you eliminate the problem.
DeafTourette
Perpetually Offended
They were.
ManaByte
Member
The new Falcon. He was Sam’s sidekick in the show.
who the guy opposite side of Harrison Ford suppose to be
Donald mac Ronald
Member
So anyone seen it yet. Any good? 
Revolutionary
Member
It's not out yet. Next week is when we'll start seeing these kinds ofSo anyone seen it yet. Any good?
Got my tickets. My kid is already saying bucky would have been a better captain. Not sure if he is just parroting a youtuber or if it's an indication that the MCU may have misjudged the appeal of bucky to young fans. Might put on The Incredible Hulk because I hear there may be some callbacks.
Doom85
Member
I just really don’t understand why anyone who saw where Bucky was at the end of Endgame think he was an ideal Cap. He has no connections to anyone in the Avengers except Sam whereas the latter had time spent with a good deal of them, and he was still recovering from issues of his time as the Winter Soldier.
It would have honestly made Steve look like an asshole if he handed the shield to Bucky with where the latter was at that time. You don’t look at your friend who has only recently gotten HYDRA programming out of his head, barely knows anyone around him, and then go, “okay, I’m going to now permanently retire now, so could you please take this massive responsibility in addition to all the other shit you’re trying to deal with? Thanks.”
Wanting Bucky as Cap right now feels like a very shallow view of the characters’ journeys rather than actual analysis of what they’re going through. He could be Cap someday, but it would have been unearned to have it happen this soon.
Saber
Member
Then people ask why adults/parents should be the ones to criticize or voice concern for kids movies. Kids don't know anything, they don't know the difference between what is good or bad, most of times they just repeat what others have said. I would be willing to bet he heard that from either from a youtuber or his friend parroting this from youtubers/twitchers.
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Idleyes
Gold Member
I see they ass creed shadowed this franchise.
Oh, you mad now? Just wait til Black Cap gets clapped in the first 10 minutes like most of us in horror movies, then they throw the shield to Ralph Barbosa talkin bout some ole "Yeah, so uh… I guess I gotta save the world now… but like… do I gotta do it today? Cause traffic kinda crazy and I just ordered tacos."
Honestly? That’d be an upgrade, but I’mma let Sam Wilson cook. I just need these writers to level him up from insecure manchild to straight-up Wesley Snipes in Blade mode. Like, gimme that nigga tryna ice-skate up a dirt hill energy and I'm good.
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