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[Anton Sugar]

Kotaku article by Jason Schreier

Please read the article before posting--this isn't about not having access to TTK content, but rather, about losing content that was previously accessible to vanilla players.

Are you a Destiny player with no interest in buying The Taken King? You might want to find another game to play.

As it turns out, The Taken King doesn’t just add a ton of excellent new stuff to Bungie’s ambitious MMO-shooter—it also locks out much of the old content both in PVE and PVP. Vanilla Destiny players can still access all the original story missions and raids, but they can’t do heroic strikes or nightfalls anymore. And because Bungie has totally revamped the way playlist strikes work, players without The Taken King can only run through the relatively useless level-20 Vanguard Legacy playlists—a big departure from the last incarnation of the game, which offered different tiers of playlists that anyone could access.

In the Crucible, while anyone with The Taken King installed can play through all the old modes and then some, vanilla players are stuck with three types of PVP playlists: Classic free-for-all, classic 3v3 (Skirmish/Salvage), and classic 6v6 (Clash/Control). If you don’t have The Taken King but only want to play one of those 3v3 or 6v6 modes, your only option is to pick a playlist and bail every time you get the one you don’t want.

Also, as you might expect, Destiny players who haven’t upgraded to Year Two can’t get the new subclasses, shiny gear, and cool quests that ship with The Taken King, which runs for $40. Vanilla players are also stuck with the old level cap of 34.

On one hand, this feels like a no-duh move: Of course people are going to have to buy all the expansions to keep up with all the stuff that Destiny’s developers tweak and add every few months. And from what we’ve seen so far, The Taken King is well worth the asking price, even if previous DLC has been a bit lacking.

But for Destiny players who aren’t yet sure if they want to upgrade—or can’t afford it yet—it’s something of a slap in the face to see half the old endgame content suddenly disappear. On September 14, anyone with a copy of Destiny could play a variety of crucible modes or take on the nightfall and weekly heroic strikes; as of September 15, they can’t. Quite a few people aren’t pleased about that, and they’ve taken to Reddit, forums, and Kotaku’s email inboxes to get out the message. (One Redditor has put together a good compilation of all the stuff that’s locked out now.)

Bungie’s forums are full of Destiny players complaining about this problem in colorful ways.

“Is this even legal?” writes one player. “Say you buy a couch for 100. After a year the company you bought it from comes to your door and asks you 40 dollars extra for the couch and if you buy it you get a nice pillow. You say you don’t want to pay. They saw your couch in half and take one half with them... That’s how I feel about TTK so far.”

“I didn’t buy the DLC for Elder Scrolls Online yet, and the total content that was taken away, or that I am locked out of as punishment is NOTHING,” writes another player.

Of course, Destiny is very different than other MMOs in a lot of ways, and many of the changes brought with The Taken King are huge, much-needed fixes to problems the game has had since it first launched last September. But Bungie never warned anyone that they’d be locking old players out of so much of the game, which is one of the main reasons so many people are upset about this paywall.

We’re dealing with growing pains, here. And the folks who didn’t upgrade are hurting most of all.

TL;DR
Reddit put together a comprehensive list of everything that is locked out now:

But I decided to jump on anyways, today, and see what I could do without the expansion. What I found was not much at all.

• Daily, Weekly heroic and nightfall missions are all gated off. Now it's not to say that these won't cycle through to older missions, but bungie seems to have set the new game to 'only level 40' mode, so who's to say that next week won't be undying mind with a level 40 requirement slapped on it?
• All Vendor gear is now locked, old vendor gear is gone completely and I'd assume unobtainable. The only gear that you can buy is from your vanguard mentor- uncommons with few perks and only some with 170 defense ratings.
• The vanguard legacy playlist is a shadow of what the old vanguard strike playlists were, providing paltry rewards and seemingly no legendary gear- compared to what you could do two weeks ago.
• All "kill objective" missions while patrolling lead to Taken, who you are unable to kill due to the high level difference. This effectively renders them unbeatable unless you have a fire team member who owns the expansion.
• crucible now only lets you select between random 3v3 or 6v6 match types, which is paltry compared, again, to what you could do two weeks ago.
• Level select on missions is gone, you can only do the mission on the default difficulty- this devalues content even as there are legacy quests being re implemented to give gear with 2.0
• the wandering wolf packs are gone, along with being able to level up queens wrath (at least I haven't found any way besides grinding the story missions endlessly).
• Doesn't seem like there's a way to earn legendary marks, so you can't purchase planetary materials. Back to farming Venus for some more spirit bloom, then.
• all Eris bounties are gone, and her item selection has been culled (so that's what, half of the dark below?)

This is just insanely frustrating and mind-boggling. I actually just re-bought Destiny (and TTK) last night after hearing all the praise and have yet to dive in, but it's practices exactly like this that made me sell my copy last year. When is Bungie going to stop making these stupid decisions? I had thought they put this kind of practice behind them with TTK.

 

[skynidas]

i can't see anyone that is still playing destiny that is only playing the vanilla content.

 

[Anoregon]

Shitty, but not really unprecedented. The stuff that vanilla players can no longer access is essentially end game activities, and those are usually expansion-only for online loot-oriented games with expansion releases.

This doesn't mean its OK, but I find it pretty hard to believe there are many classic players who didn't buy TTK. In general it seems that You either stopped playing Destiny a while ago for good, came back for TTK, or have been playing this whole time in which case you were obviously looking forward to TTK. I'm not sure what the audience/playerbase is for people still interested in Destiny but not enough to hop on the TTK bandwagon.

 

[super-famicom]

Could Bungie have just kept the original playlist and then added a TTK only playlist?

 

[curb]

i can't see anyone that is still playing destiny that is only playing the vanilla content.

I picked up a copy on the cheap recently just to check out Nolan North's Ghost having sold my original vanilla Destiny last year. If I were to ever actually start playing it for real though, I'd get TKK.

 

[Suzushiiro]

The pre-expansion endgame experience being gutted is par for the course when it comes to MMO expansion launches, but it sounds like this is going a little farther than MMOs usually go.

 

[Obliterator]

Its an always online game thats built around grouping to do content. If you don't keep everything together for the people who are upgrading (which is the vast majority of players) it fragments the base.

Basically if you aren't going to buy every expansion and keep up with the game its best to play something else. The game was not designed for you. People need to stop looking at Destiny like something like Halo. Its entire structure and game philosophy is different

 

[MikeDown]

Could Bungie have just kept the original playlist and then added a TTK only playlist?

they did the same thing with the DLCs for halo

 

[LewieP]

Awful behaviour from Bungie, but not all that surprising.

The decisions they have made with Destiny start making a lot of sense when you realise it is a stealth subscription fee, packaged up in a manner that is intended to be more palatable for the specific audience they were going for.

 

[BiggNife]

i can't see anyone that is still playing destiny that is only playing the vanilla content.

People who skipped Destiny before are buying the original game for cheap now because of the 2.0 patch and they don't know if they want TTK yet. I know my brother did this exact thing.

 

[Havik]

Most mmos are no fun to play if you dont buy expansion packs but outright locking content is shitty.

 

[Kalentan]

People who skipped Destiny before are buying the original game for cheap now because of the 2.0 patch and they don't know if they want TTK yet. I know my brother did this exact thing.

Why would they buy it for cheap now when they could have just waited for the Legendary Edition..?

 

[Jito]

It makes sense though, those players are no longer at the endgame so why would they be doing endgame content? Did people really expect Bungie to re-invent the game whilst also keeping the old system for players who won't be upgrading.

 

[TheSlySoul]

So I did the right thing ignoring the first release? Good for me I guess.

 

[BokehKing]

i can't see anyone that is still playing destiny that is only playing the vanilla content.

I agree, if you been playing religiously the last few months, you probably own TTK already or pre ordered it months ago.

 

[10k]

 

[Ken]

Why would they buy it for cheap now when they could have just waited for the Legendary Edition..?

Cause $16 is a lot lower investment than $60 for a game with so much bad word of mouth, warranted even for the base game and Crota's End.

 

[Effect]

The pre-expansion endgame experience being gutted is par for the course when it comes to MMO expansion launches, but it sounds like this is going a little farther than MMOs usually go.

Former endgame experiences change in that players move on to the next set of content and you have less players to run through the old content. That's it. You don't get locked out of that endgame content that you used to be able to do. You don't have content removed from the game. That isn't par for the course at all with MMOs and their expansions. There isn't an MMO I've played that has ever done anything similar or at all close to that. If new changes causes wide sweeping changes across old content then that old content is simply updated and everyone gets access to it even if you didn't buy the new expansion.

This is a huge F U to people by Bungie by making these changes.

 

[BiggNife]

Why would they buy it for cheap now when they could have just waited for the Legendary Edition..?

Because you can find the original game used for $15 and Legendary Edition is full price? And if you want to buy TTK later you wouldn't be paying anything extra.

 

[piratethingy]

Most mmos are no fun to play if you dont buy expansion packs but outright locking content is shitty.

I think labeling it as 'locked content' is a bit questionable. Every strike in the vanilla game is still in the game and still accessible to everyone. Same for the DLCs. Same for story missions. Same for PvP modes and maps (plus you get the first two expansion's maps for free even if you don't have them).

You just can't do this stuff at the max difficulty level anymore because you're not at the max level anymore.

 

[Krakn3Dfx]

i can't see anyone that is still playing destiny that is only playing the vanilla content.

I agree, if you been playing religiously the last few months, you probably own TTK already or pre ordered it months ago.

Well, that makes it okay then I guess. It's the consumer's fault.

 

[Zareka]

i can't see anyone that is still playing destiny that is only playing the vanilla content.

Different game I know, but there are people in my FFXIV guild who still haven't bought the new Heavensward expansion. They're perfectly happy running old content and dungeons they haven't done before because they're behind. Same basic principle behind holding off on the new expansion/DLC.

I might be off, but this sounds like if every FFXIV 50 dungeon suddenly became 60 only on expansion day, which would be ridiculous.

 

[styl3s]

i can't see anyone that is still playing destiny that is only playing the vanilla content.

I know quite a few people that still play vanilla SC2 but they do the arcade style games and stuff and blizzard is really good at not locking that content behind expansions.

 

[Obliterator]

I agree, if you been playing religiously the last few months, you probably own TTK already or pre ordered it months ago.

Its the most downloaded Day 1 game in Playstation history and has more players now then at launch which was already a massive player base.

The amount of players not upgrading to TTK are a small minority, if you get left behind, again maybe an always online social grouping game isn't for you. There are plenty of other titles to play

Edit - BTW I'm reinforcing your point not disagreeing

 

[piratethingy]

Different game I know, but there are people in my FFXIV guild who still haven't bought the new Heavensward expansion. They're perfectly happy running old content and dungeons they haven't done before because they're behind. Same basic principle behind holding off on the new expansion/DLC.

I might be off, but this sounds like if every FFXIV 50 dungeon suddenly became 60 only on expansion day, which would be ridiculous.

No, it'd be like if they restricted access to the highest level playlist for those dungeons upon release of the new expansion but still let you play lower level versions.

Like they did for Heavensward.

 

[Mushroomer25]

While I feel most players saw this coming, it definetely does make me worry about the future of Destiny. If I wanted to get in at The Taken King - I'm essentially committing to purchasing their yearly updates if I want to always play that content. It's an unspoken subscription.

 

[family_guy]

So I did the right thing ignoring the first release? Good for me I guess.

And people there at day 1 got shitted on.

 

[Miles Quaritch]

Man, how far Bungie fell in such a short span of time.

Guess it was MS who was keeping from being similarly shitty with Halo...

 

[Rei no Otaku]

People who skipped Destiny before are buying the original game for cheap now because of the 2.0 patch and they don't know if they want TTK yet. I know my brother did this exact thing.

To be fair, if he likes it enough to want to do the end game content he'd most likely want TTK.

 

[pizzacat]

You mean like what happened with the other dlcs

 

[Sephzilla]

Man, how far Bungie fell in such a short span of time.

Guess it was MS who was keeping from being similarly shitty with Halo...

well, arent a few of the bungie higher ups who worked on halo gone now?

 

[eFKac]

Given how much TTK is selling it seems, I don't think they will change their behaviour in the future.

I'm never getting tricked the second time though.

 

[flkraven]

This blows for vanilla Destiny players. This is exactly how I felt when the Dark Below released before I bought the DLC

 

[vctor182]

Did anyone did those vanguard strike playlists though? I think I did the Tiger once and then just skipped to the last one. they were pretty useless IMO only the one with the highest difficulty mattered.

 

[SmartWaffles]

Shitty, but not really unprecedented. The stuff that vanilla players can no longer access is essentially end game activities, and those are usually expansion-only for online loot-oriented games with expansion releases.

This doesn't mean its OK, but I find it pretty hard to believe there are many classic players who didn't buy TTK. In general it seems that You either stopped playing Destiny a while ago for good, came back for TTK, or have been playing this whole time in which case you were obviously looking forward to TTK. I'm not sure what the audience/playerbase is for people still interested in Destiny but not enough to hop on the TTK bandwagon.

Repeating things again: other loot oriented games, subscription based or not, do not block old players from stuff (both content and activities) they had access to.

Borderlands 2 does not block you from vanilla content if you don't have the story DLCs. It does not block you from farming level 50 gear if you do not have Ultimate Vault Hunter Upgrade 1 (increase level cap).
Diablo 3 does not block you from vanilla content if you do not have Reaper of Souls, in fact vanilla players get the updated legendaries for free as long as they can drop at level 60, plus a lot of the new gear added in patches are available to them for free as well.
World of Warcraft does not block you from Black Temple if you do not buy Wrath of the Lich King. They did block some of the older dungeons and raids because they were updated in another expansion but they were all done several years after they ship.

 

[DNAbro]

Different game I know, but there are people in my FFXIV guild who still haven't bought the new Heavensward expansion. They're perfectly happy running old content and dungeons they haven't done before because they're behind. Same basic principle behind holding off on the new expansion/DLC.

I might be off, but this sounds like if every FFXIV 50 dungeon suddenly became 60 only on expansion day, which would be ridiculous.

The only content they can't do anymore is high level playlists and certain crucible options. There is less reason to do older content because lack of loot though.

 

[Broadbandito]

sounds like people who are buying the base game to see if they want to get into the expansion are kind of doing it wrong since there is a TRIAL version of vanilla that was updated with the same changes

plus level 34** gear is actually level 20 gear with the new changes. So getting level 20 items from the level 20 strike playlist makes sense.

 

[mightynine]

I feel like what this game offers to certain players is needlessly complicated. Is it just because I don't play MMOs?

 

[Effnine]

While the practice on the outside seems kinda scummy, I think for those of us that played Destiny since day one, it's not that a big deal.

I kind of look at the Taken King as just Destiny 2 and have no problem paying for that considering the amount of time I spend playing the game.

I was done with the old content. I had no reason to ever play again. Now, if Taken King hadn't actually been worth it, I could see more of an uproar.

 

[Miles Quaritch]

well, arent a few of the bungie higher ups who worked on halo gone now?

Wouldn't surprise if it was a shadow of what it used to be.

I know some stayed behind at 343, guess others scattered to other studios. Good thing too with the direction the studio has gone. Biggest fall from grace ever in my opinion...shocking lack of respect or regard for the fanbase.

 

[Zareka]

No, it'd be like if they restricted access to the highest level playlist for those dungeons upon release of the new expansion but still let you play lower level versions.

Like they did for Heavensward.

The only content they can't do anymore is high level playlists and certain crucible options. There is less reason to do older content because lack of loot though.

Oh okay, that's not so bad then. As long as they still have access to their content I don't see the issue.

 

[lewisgone]

Different game I know, but there are people in my FFXIV guild who still haven't bought the new Heavensward expansion. They're perfectly happy running old content and dungeons they haven't done before because they're behind. Same basic principle behind holding off on the new expansion/DLC.

I might be off, but this sounds like if every FFXIV 50 dungeon suddenly became 60 only on expansion day, which would be ridiculous.

I was just about to mention FFXIV. I bought ARR about 3 months ago and only upgraded to Heavensward last month. You can play the 2.x content right up to the end without getting locked out of stuff that was accessible before Heavensward. The expansion is entirely separate and I didn't feel like I was hindering my progress by not buying Heavensward for a month after hitting level 50.

 

[Effnine]

I feel like what this game offers to certain players is needlessly complicated. Is it just because I don't play MMOs?

Destiny is far from complicated. Especially compared to other MMOs.

 

[Durden77]

In a way, they're probably just really trying to shove people into TTK. With all the improvements I've heard, I could see why they would probably want people to try and forget about the core game as soon as possible. But this is a dick way to do that.

Also lol at another Kotaku story based on a GAF thread.

 

[Forsaken82]

not really surprised (at least regarding online, as they did the same thing with Halo 3 playlist seperation when DLC started hitting)

What doesn't make much sense is locking previously vanilla content like strikes out though.

This pretty much confirms I won't be making the same mistake of Day 1 purchasing Destiny 2

 

[Japanmanx3]

You mean like what happened with the other dlcs

Right? I remember this happening for sure with the first two DLC's. I don't do much to defend Destiny but if you're still playing Vanilla Destiny, or Destiny without everything up to TTK, then you probably should not play launch week of new DLC or this frustration will be a recurring pain.

 

[Yurikerr]

I think it's pretty scary when we have people blaming players that bought a game last year and are mad that they don't have access to the same content now.

Yes, i'm entitled to everything that the game had until the first expansion hit. If i could play strikes until level 28, i want to have access to the same shit today.

There's no excuse, i know that maintaining two (or 3) different "game worlds" is almost impossible, but that's a Bungie problem, not mine as the costumer.

If they knew this was going to be the way the game would progress (and i'm sure they knew) they should have communicated this to everyone ages ago.


Edit: And people need to stop thinking everyone wants harder playlists because of loot. The difficulty has a direct impact of the enjoyment of the game. I don't want to run a piss poor easy 20 strike as a level 34.

 

[DNAbro]

not really surprised (at least regarding online, as they did the same thing with Halo 3 playlist seperation when DLC started hitting)

What doesn't make much sense is locking previously vanilla content like strikes out though.

This pretty much confirms I won't be making the same mistake of Day 1 purchasing Destiny 2

again they aren't locked out of strikes. They got rid of the multiple strike playlists in favor of a legacy playlist only at level 20. Before the only differences were just levels. They can still do those strikes.

 

[Anton Sugar]

I think it's pretty scary when we have people blaming players that bought a game last year and are mad that they don't have access to the same content now.

Yes, i'm entitled to everything that the game had until the first expansion hit. If i could play strikes until level 28, i want to have access to the same shit today.

There's no excuse, i know that maintaining two (or 3) different "game worlds" is almost impossible, but that's a Bungie problem, not mine as the costumer.

If they knew this was going to be the way the game would progress (and i'm sure they knew) they should have communicated this to everyone ages ago.

Bingo.

While the practice on the outside seems kinda scummy, I think for those of us that played Destiny since day one, it's not that a big deal.

I kind of look at the Taken King as just Destiny 2 and have no problem paying for that considering the amount of time I spend playing the game.

I was done with the old content. I had no reason to ever play again. Now, if Taken King hadn't actually been worth it, I could see more of an uproar.

But The Taken King isn't Destiny 2. It's an add-on to Destiny. And it's clearly a big deal for players who didn't buy TTK.

 

[HalfBakedProphet]

Daily, Weekly heroic and nightfall missions are all gated off. Now it's not to say that these won't cycle through to older missions, but bungie seems to have set the new game to 'only level 40' mode, so who's to say that next week won't be undying mind with a level 40 requirement slapped on it?

I pointed this out in the OT and was told I was spreading "misinformation"

Gating off nightfalls, dailies and most of the old strike lists is incredibly shitty