Support NeoGAF

[Squishy3]

Its an always online game thats built around grouping to do content. If you don't keep everything together for the people who are upgrading (which is the vast majority of players) it fragments the base.

Basically if you aren't going to buy every expansion and keep up with the game its best to play something else. The game was not designed for you. People need to stop looking at Destiny like something like Halo. Its entire structure and game philosophy is different

plenty of other games with similar structure as destiny keeps all the content there for vanilla players to play in dailies or what have you

i'm going to use ffxiv as an example, which just got an expansion 3 months ago

all the daily roulettes from a realm reborn is there for people to play still, despite whether or not they've upgraded to heavensward. they added new matchmaking specifically for the heavensward content (or incorporated the heavensward content into the existing leveling roulette, but the dungeons that are randomly selected in the leveling roulette are added as you unlock them instead of preventing you from running the roulette until you unlock all the dungeons)

instead of having daily nightfall or daily pvp or whatever being randomly selected from content you as a player have access to it's randomly selected from all available content in the game and anyone who doesn't have that content is unable to do it, even though the icon is there staring everyone in the face (while simultaneously yelling at them "taken king required")

 

[DR2K]

It sucks that they're removing content for vanilla only players, but there are some deals to upgrade for cheaper.

 

[firehawk12]

This happened with the two expansions as well. I don't know why this is a surprise.

If you're not buying TTK, there's no reason at all to keep playing the game. It was the same as when Crota and House of Wolves came out.

 

[Dunlop]

Biggest fall from grace ever in my opinion...shocking lack of respect or regard for the fanbase.

Sorry Destiny 1.0 holds that crown by far.

I'm loving Destiny 2.0 but let's not pretend that Bungie didn't bank on our goodwill towards them for the pre sales

 

[Jito]

I pointed this out in the OT and was told I was spreading "misinformation"

Gating off nightfalls, dailies and most of the old strike lists is incredibly shitty

Same thing happened with the other DLCs, how is anyone who's being playing Destiny surprised by this? It was well known that Bungie set all the Dailies, Heroics and Nightfalls to be DLC based around the new DLC release, surprisingly people want to play the new content.

"Hey thanks for buying our new DLC, now play this old content you've done 100 times already because if we don't the people who didn't buy it will cry "

 

[zashga]

The amount of shit that Destiny players will put up with is baffling to me. And no, most MMOs don't do this when a new expansion rolls around. Activision/Blizzard's own World of Warcraft certainly doesn't; they tend to add functionality (LFG, redone low-level zones, etc.) even for players who don't buy the latest expansion.

 

[firehawk12]

Same thing happened with the other DLCs, how is anyone who's being playing Destiny surprised by this? It was well known that Bungie set all the Dailies, Heroics and Nightfalls to be DLC based around the new DLC release, surprisingly people want to play the new content.

"Hey thanks for buying our new DLC, now play this old content you've done 100 times already because if we don't the people who didn't buy it will cry "

Yeah, if you're not buying the DLC, you're basically quitting the game. I mean, why would anyone bother playing Destiny now if they're not all in?

 

[Squishy3]

Same thing happened with the other DLCs, how is anyone who's being playing Destiny surprised by this? It was well known that Bungie set all the Dailies, Heroics and Nightfalls to be DLC based around the new DLC release, surprisingly people want to play the new content.

destiny borrows a lot of things from mmos, including daily things you can run that earn you bonus endgame currency or whatever, except most mmos have the dailies set up in that it's randomly selected from content you as a player have access to instead of being randomly selected from all available content in the game on a daily basis in the case of pvp and a weekly basis in the case of nightfall and heroic strikes and the people without that content are prevented from running it

To be honest with retailers like game stop doing $20 trade in value for vanilla destiny, you can get taken king for $20 which really is a great value.

except for the part where you need a copy of vanilla destiny to play the taken king

 

[Audible Phonetics]

To be honest with retailers like game stop doing $20 trade in value for vanilla destiny, you can get taken king for $20 which really is a great value.

 

[Deleted member 752119]

I think labeling it as 'locked content' is a bit questionable. Every strike in the vanilla game is still in the game and still accessible to everyone. Same for the DLCs. Same for story missions. Same for PvP modes and maps (plus you get the first two expansion's maps for free even if you don't have them).

You just can't do this stuff at the max difficulty level anymore because you're not at the max level anymore.

While true, there's really not a good reason to have the strike playlist only be up to level 20. They could have left the 24, 28, 30 or whatever they were before as options in the legacy playlist, put options for 30 or lower daily missions when it's not a TTK one and so forth for those that didn't upgrade.

That said, it's clear Bungie just wants to build a base of dedicated players who buy every update, and don't care if others jump ship. They're doing the MMO type option where you need to keep paying to keep playing in a relevant manner. Though most MMOs don't drop lower level play lists etc., and just make expansions new areas etc. So i do agree with the article (and the other thread earlier today) that they need some play list optoins in the 20-34 range like before in a legacy strike mode etc.

 

[Ken]

To be honest with retailers like game stop doing $20 trade in value for vanilla destiny, you can get taken king for $20 which really is a great value.

Don't you need CE and HoW to play TTK though.

 

[Jito]

destiny borrows a lot of things from mmos, including daily things you can run that earn you bonus endgame currency or whatever, except most mmos have the dailies set up in that it's randomly selected from content you as a player have access to instead of being randomly selected from all available content in the game on a daily basis in the case of pvp and a weekly basis in the case of nightfall and heroic strikes and the people without that content are prevented from running it

There will be a point where it gets back to being all the missions in the game eventually, the DLC has been out for two days, people want to play the new missions.

yep, I notice this today when I wanted to make my weekly strike., then wanted to do my daily and nothing. At then end I just played the Wolf's DLC story missions (which I haven't played yet) and could only play it at lvl 20. Scolas fell with 3 shotgun shots.

I won't upgrade until TKK DLC is $20.

Why are you even bothered if you're only just playing the HoW DLC? It's not like you're invested in the game anyway. You were probably going to wait for a price drop regardless of this news.

 

[Archaix]

So I did the right thing ignoring the first release? Good for me I guess.

Personally I'm going to play it safe and continue to do the right thing and ignore all future releases.

 

[LordBaztion]

yep, I notice this today when I wanted to make my weekly strike., then wanted to do my daily and nothing. At then end I just played the Wolf's DLC story missions (which I haven't played yet) and could only play it at lvl 20. Scolas fell with 3 shotgun shots.

I won't upgrade until TKK DLC is $20.

 

[Anton Sugar]

The Level 26 and 28 playlists came with the DLC packs, right? And they were available to vanilla players?

 

[atbigelow]

MMOs and other online games don't do this. It's shady as fuck that Bungie is.

 

[Broadbandito]

While true, there's really not a good reason to have the strike playlist only be up to level 20. They could have left the 24, 28, 30 or whatever they were before as options in the legacy playlist, put options for 30 or lower daily missions when it's not a TTK one and so forth for those that didn't upgrade.

That said, it's clear Bungie just wants to build a base of dedicated players who buy every update, and don't care if others jump ship. They're doing the MMO type option where you need to keep paying to keep playing in a relevant manner. Though most MMOs don't drop lower level play lists etc., and just make expansions new areas etc. So i do agree with the article (and the other thread earlier today) that they need some play list optoins in the 20-34 range like before in a legacy strike mode etc.

Thing is, all year 1 weapons are LEVEL 20. You can still obtain year 1 exotics through the strike playlist. This was done due to the changes to the leveling system which is MUCH BETTER now too

 

[Shao Kahn Brewing a Stew]

Best selling DLC right here folks. That Reddit list is jarring, to be honest. Good going Bung.

 

[Ragged Gloves]

Different game I know, but there are people in my FFXIV guild who still haven't bought the new Heavensward expansion. They're perfectly happy running old content and dungeons they haven't done before because they're behind. Same basic principle behind holding off on the new expansion/DLC.

I might be off, but this sounds like if every FFXIV 50 dungeon suddenly became 60 only on expansion day, which would be ridiculous.

To add to this, in MMO's, you can create upwards of 6 or more characters of different classes that you may not have played yet. In a game like Rift, many characters on many different servers.

 

[NullPointer]

Awful behaviour from Bungie, but not all that surprising.

And Destiny is all about getting as much of the playerbase as possible to buy into the new DLC. Always. All paths and systems lead to that end.

Its good that these stories get written up and gain traction so that newcomers can at least know exactly what they're getting into.

Same thing happened with the other DLCs, how is anyone who's being playing Destiny surprised by this?

And I remember seeing a lot of complaints each and every time they've done this. So Bungie can't be surprised either.

 

[HalfBakedProphet]

Same thing happened with the other DLCs, how is anyone who's being playing Destiny surprised by this? It was well known that Bungie set all the Dailies, Heroics and Nightfalls to be DLC based around the new DLC release, surprisingly people want to play the new content.

Not true. Before, you could play weeklies without the DLC when they'd rotate old strikes. That is gone for vanilla players now regardless of the strike due to the gated light level.

And they easily could have left the old strike list alone. That's just cutting content

 

[AcePartyN7]

I think for the first time I can say that I am agree with Kotaku.
I played a bit of Destiny yesterday and I was totally shocked, I could not do nothing! Only story strike at lvl 18-20 at max (I'm lvl 35...) got no loot or reward, only some XP.
Same for MP, mostly of the gametype are now blocked too. Everything anyway is made to make you buy TTK, TTK menu and music in vanilla Destiny, same for maps and other stuff with a missing spot where you can click to buy TTK etc. I will not say it's like a F2P game but for sure the vanilla Destiny remind these type of game now except that the game is not free.

They can dream to have my money for TTK…At least Halo 5 is not that far now and will not split the community with some pay wall because all the future maps will be free.
That’s ironic when I think to this situation.

 

[Grinchy]

Wow, not having the first two expansions was already a big headache for vanilla players, but at least you could do whatever scraps they allowed you to for the week. Now you can't do any of that AND vendor gear is locked off? And that's not to mention all the other items on that list.

This is as close as a developer/publisher can get to forcing you to buy DLC without driving to your house and pointing a gun at your head. I am so glad I never gave them a dime for any DLC.

 

[kinaesthete]

This happened with the two expansions as well. I don't know why this is a surprise.

If you're not buying TTK, there's no reason at all to keep playing the game. It was the same as when Crota and House of Wolves came out.

...what? What was the reason to play it before the expansions came out then?

After not touching the game since vanilla after that detestable post game grind I am, perhaps foolishly, considering getting TTK just to play through new areas with some new enemy types since the actual shooting and movement mechanics were pretty great to begin with. Was going to pop back on sans any expansions to replay some older stuff to see if I'd still like it but this patch seems like it's Bungie devaluing what I think is the most worthwhile part of their game, going through some challenging, well crafted levels for its own sake and not for fucking loot drops. Sad that a portion of the player base looks to be on the same page as them.

 

[Yurikerr]

The problem is that Bungie doesn't seem slightly interested in providing a good experience to the players that don't upgrade.

They could had implemented lots of ways to check the content that the player have and just exclude the maps/strikes that he doesn't have access, and just up the difficulty. It's not like players that bought TTK won't play high level variations of vanilla strikes.

So much for the articles and the empty blog posts that told us how much Destiny would improve even if we didn't spent one more cent.

To be honest with retailers like game stop doing $20 trade in value for vanilla destiny, you can get taken king for $20 which really is a great value.

You have to remember that not all players are from US, and Destiny is sold worldwide.

 

[Jito]

And Destiny is all about getting as much of the playerbase as possible to buy into the new DLC. Always. All paths and systems lead to that end.

Its good that these stories get written up and gain traction so that newcomers can at least know exactly what they're getting into.


And I remember seeing a lot of complaints each and every time they've done this. So Bungie can't be surprised either.

Ah well, top selling on PSN means they don't have to give a fuck what the minority of players think

Not true. Before, you could play weeklies without the DLC when they'd rotate old strikes. That is gone for vanilla players now regardless of the strike due to the gated light level.

And they easily could have left the old strike list alone. That's just cutting content

Oh right, that does suck. Oh well, win some lose some. If you're not going to keep up with the DLC then there's no point in playing at this point.

 

[McArkus]

Yeah, as a vanilla Destiny player with only the HoW dlc, feels like now I'm a second hand guardian, I understand that I should not have access to the new content from the dlc like missions, strikes and raid, but locking modes that were available before the update leaves a bad taste.

Before we could select story missions at a higher lever (up to 32 I believe) and now is just the default setting, vanguard strikes could go up to level 28 depending of your dlc for better rewards (some good weapons), now is a flat 20 for everyone no matter the previous dlc if you don't own TTK with rewards from blue engrams level 26 tops and no legendary marks.

With the crucible, there was several list with different modes you could chose from, now everything goes to 3 core playlists with a random selection of the activity, no ability to choose what mode you want now. Also I fear that we are locked now from the Iron Banner and Trials of Osiris due to the impossibility of leveling pass level 34, meaning that light levels will be tops170 for year 1 while TTK are +280. Before you could still reach a close enough level to still be a fun experience, a difference between level 33 and 34 light was something about 95% attack and 95% defense, now with that new gap, I don't think is possible anymore.

 

[eksy]

It should be stated on the fuckin' outside of the game box like the Surgeon General's Warning on cigarettes: "Some of the content you get in this game can and will be restricted and/or unplayable when future expansions are released."

It should state this plainly and clearly. I don't give a damn if there is precedent for it, which there never was. You never assume people should know this. You take away parts of the game people used to play and allow only those that purchased the DLCs access is BS. There is no justification for this. They should have accommodated them by making a non-DLC playlist, for the Weekly, Crucible, etc. Otherwise, state it very clearly so people know exactly what they are getting into when they spend their money and invest their time into this game. Just another example of how Bungie treats it's player base.

 

[Corronchilejano]

I remember when Blizzard locked the low level questing and parts of the world that already existed when a new expansion came out. You couldn't even do the old dungeons anymore!

Spoiler

Seriously, it's Halo 3 Playlists all over again.

 

[Pie and Beans]

Good to see "the worst gaming purchase I ever made" actually continue to get worse. Quite a legacy of shit its built up, and the answer right now is "if you throw another $60 at it, its kinda okay now!!"

Shame its not actually taking a toll on their bottom line, but thats billion dollar marketing I guess. Aint nothing gonna stop that train.

 

[dottme]

Yeah, if you're not buying the DLC, you're basically quitting the game. I mean, why would anyone bother playing Destiny now if they're not all in?

There was some threads on Neogaf that suggests TTK improve a lot of things even in the base game. New voice over, new loot system....
So some people like me who bought Destiny day 1 because of this great marketing were thinking to play it again.
But I won't invest more money after trying it a lot.
And now, I won't even invest time as I cannot access the content anymore.

For some time, I was having the feeling that Bungie doesn't care about player in my case. Now, I have the confirmation.

 

[Squishy3]

There will be a point where it gets back to being all the missions in the game eventually, the DLC has been out for two days, people want to play the new missions.

So make one for non-expansion owners and one for expansion owners that's only the new content. FFXIV has daily roulettes, none of them lock out players who haven't purchased the latest expansion. There's one for leveling which contains all instances from level 15-50 as you unlock them for non-expansion owners or 15-60 for people who own the expansion, then there's hard roulette for all the dungeons (you need to do each of them once before unlocking them for the daily roulette) that were added through patches to the base game, then there's expert roulette for the 2 level 60 dungeons that unlock after you finish the main scenario for the expansion.

Other games that are similar in structure to this don't lock players out of doing daily or weekly content because the content is randomly selected for the entire playerbase, so players who currently can't upgrade due to money constraints are at the mercy of the random selection picking content that they have access to.

This isn't even including the fact that players can't pick just control or whatever because the playlist has maps exclusive to The Taken King in it.

 

[TheSlySoul]

Personally I'm going to play it safe and continue to do the right thing and ignore all future releases.

I am debating it. Busy with Mario Maker currently and still need to play Danganronpa.
So not in a rush...

 

[firehawk12]

...what? What was the reason to play it before the expansions came out then?

After not touching the game since vanilla after that detestable post game grind I am, perhaps foolishly, considering getting TTK just to play through new areas with some new enemy types since the actual shooting and movement mechanics were pretty great to begin with. Was going to pop back on sans any expansions to replay some older stuff to see if I'd still like it but this patch seems like it's Bungie devaluing what I think is the most worthwhile part of their game, going through some challenging, well crafted levels for its own sake and not for fucking loot drops. Sad that a portion of the player base looks to be on the same page as them.

The grind is exactly the same, they just moved the numbers around. But other than doing grindy quests, there's nothing there for you if you don't have any of the expansions.

Also, for people who say you can just buy TTK - you can't. The only way to get TTK is if you have the other expansions, either through the new "GOTY" edition of the game or through PSN. The game is built around you being up to date with all the DLC.

 

[Samurai G0SU]

I was coming back to play the year 2 patch that i assumed were available to anyone who owned destiny w/o the expansions. Items and mission tweaks etc.

Now with this information, did i just really downloaded a patch that made the game more restrictive? Only two playlists available to me now since i dont own TTK? -__- .....

So really this is not an add-on expansion to 'expand' destiny to be greater than it was but more of a revision release of Vanilla Destiny ... I almost want to say Vanilla destiny should have included ALL OF THIS from the get-go. The Dark Below, House of Wolves and The Taken King. Where content unlocks for free over the year to these areas. Then maybe an expansion in the holiday season with 4 new planets and locations (*cough old chicago) Im still jaded by the story i played. The Dark Below and House of Wolves addition didnt even excite me. come on bungie.. i love your story telling..

Oh well, i know what to do. For those enjoying it. You will be the reason we will have Destiny 2 that will draw me back in (hopefully)!! Keep up that feedback and hopefully they make the next one so awesome, it'll be in direct competition with Gears 4.

 

[firehawk12]

I was coming back to play the year 2 patch that i assumed were available to anyone who owned destiny w/o the expansions. Items and mission tweaks etc.

Now with this information, did i just really downloaded a patch that made the game more restrictive? Only two playlists available to me now since i dont own TTK? -__- .....

You downloaded the DLC that you can't access. lol

 

[GRIMREEFZ]

While this is poor deal for vanilla, the content is withheld, I believe, because theyve changed a lot of it to incorporate the taken enemies. If the vanilla content is changed to contain dlc, how can it be played by everyone? It can not.

 

[JetBlackPanda]

guys I'm still running burning crusade.. how does this work?

 

[Anton Sugar]

While this is poor deal for vanilla, the content is withheld, I believe, because theyve changed a lot of it to incorporate the taken enemies. If the vanilla content is changed to contain dlc, how can it be played by everyone? It can not.

So the level 22+ Strikes on vanilla maps have new enemies?

EDIT: I don't think that's right, considering it sounds like you can still play the Strikes at higher levels individually, but the playlists are gone.

 

[LifEndz]

That crucible playlist thing is just crazy. I can't imagine any other dev doing that because a new dlc was released.

 

[Squishy3]

While this is poor deal for vanilla, the content is withheld, I believe, because theyve changed a lot of it to incorporate the taken enemies. If the vanilla content is changed to contain dlc, how can it be played by everyone? It can not.

so people without taken king shouldn't be allowed to do patrols on earth, venus and mars because taken enemies spawn in specific areas of the map on those planets now, right?

 

[Majanew]

That's very nice of them, but that's ok. I left Destiny and Bungie behind after the abysmal vanilla turd was released. Dumb fucking unexplained story with nothing to do in the game but run around in a circle to loot chests and enemies that quickly respawn when you move a few feet to hope you get something good. I put a grind in for this better Scout rifle that ended up doing the exact same amount of damage as the one I was using, even though the stats said otherwise. Yay! I ran around for hours to buy a gun that was the same as the one I was using for hours. "Gee, what should we do now? I guess go run around in a circle in that one Old Russia area to hope we eventually get a purple engram." And Bungie made the game worse by removing cave farming. How dare we get bored and find things to do besides run around in a goddamn circle.

 

[PedroLumpy]

Cool, glad this perspective is getting some attention. Along with all the stuff changing in TTK, they went absolutely scorched earth on the vanilla experience. At level 40, any content they have access to will be trivial.

I'm surprised at how far they went, seems totally unnecessary. Doesn't even seem to benefit TTK players.

Bungie took their old playlist/DLC habits to a whole new level with this.

 

[SaganIsGOAT]

No half measures. You either go all in with destiny or get left behind. That's cool with me. The consumers who keep supporting the product expansion after expansion, and release after release are top priority.

 

[firehawk12]

Cool, glad this perspective is getting some attention. Along with all the stuff changing in TTK, they went absolutely scorched earth on the vanilla experience. At level 40, any content they have access to will be trivial.

I'm surprised at how far they went, seems totally unnecessary. Doesn't even seem to benefit TTK players.

Bungie took their old playlist/DLC habits to a whole new level with this.

But this isn't new? It's like Jason was so excited that he got carried to Mercury by GAF that he didn't notice that this was how the game has always been.

 

[Alabamaman]

All kill missions are locked? So patrol is basically useless.

Fuck this shit, I'm deleting the game.

 

[Ken]

No half measures. You either go all in with destiny or get left behind. That's cool with me. The consumers who keep supporting the product expansion after expansion, and release after release are top priority.

Eh, depends on what you want out of Destiny. I had a lull in games to play when HoW came out so I picked that up, did everything and left feeling satisfied without picking up TTK.

 

[Broadbandito]

I understand why people are mad but you really gotta understand what's happening.

Level 20 Strike. Technically all armor/items/weapons that we earned in the first year of Destiny were only level 20 with light attached to it. Look at your exotic(s) they are level 20. The level 20 strike playlist still rewards you as if you were playing the old 30 or whatever strikes. The obviously condensed it for everyone that is still on the vanilla version so they get better matchmaking times and just makes it easier for everyone to get into a strike.

edit: and it sounds like Vanilla players also got the strikes from TDB and HOW for free as well in this playlist.

Vault of Glass is still available. You can still earn the legendaries that drop in the raid.

Condensing the PVP modes was also, I believe, done to keep the vanilla player base still playing together. instead of having 6 playlists that would cause for longer matchmaking times and turnarounds. ALSO: VANILLA PLAYERS ACTUALLY RECEIVED MORE MULTIPLAYER MAPS FOR FREE. TDB and HOW maps were added to vanilla version for free.

Dailies/Heroic/Nightfall. This content was always aimed for the highest level(s). Since now there is a discrepancy in levels 34 vs 40, these are no longer available for the vanilla players.

I would say the biggest mistake that anyone should be mad about is the upgrading to the Taken King, especially if you bought the vanilla digital version without the first 2 expansions. If you stayed all digital you would have to purchase the first expansion pass for $35 and then the TTK for $40, which is then $75. Or you could purchase the legendary digital edition for $60 or the physical for the same price.

all in all I believe the vanilla players RECEIVED MORE content and lost out on the high level activities.

This is where I feel like bungie/activision needs to improve. I believe that they should have made TDB/HOW part of vanilla and reward everyone who bought them with rewards (respectively). Kind of like how wow does with the battle chest.

If people are interested in checking out the 2.0 changes, don't buy the vanilla game for $15. Go download the trial version and if you like what you are playing then get the legendary version.

 

[firehawk12]

There was some threads on Neogaf that suggests TTK improve a lot of things even in the base game. New voice over, new loot system....
So some people like me who bought Destiny day 1 because of this great marketing were thinking to play it again.
But I won't invest more money after trying it a lot.
And now, I won't even invest time as I cannot access the content anymore.

For some time, I was having the feeling that Bungie doesn't care about player in my case. Now, I have the confirmation.

It's an enhanced experience if you have TTK. You still get the new campaign and stuff I suppose, but the end game content is always going to be locked out based on how they've handled it previously. When the next expansion comes out and you don't get it, your copy of TTK is going to be obsolete.

 

[Jito]

All kill missions are locked? So patrol is basically useless.

Fuck this shit, I'm deleting the game.

No that's worded poorly, there's new patrol missions that involves finding and killing high level Taken. The kill a ton of enemies patrol mission still exists.