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[Darth Smurf X]

After reading this: http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=1113590 I don't think Bungie is all that concerned about the people not upgrading. It seems rather small.

And I bet they'll fix some of this as well. All they need to do is add a Level 34 strike playlist, one tier of medium difficulty (level 34) for each mission and a way to get legendary marks for vanilla players.

I look at it like this. If I don't upgrade my phone's OS every so often, I can't use certain apps. Even apps I used to use in the past since they've updated to the newest OS as well. And if my phone can't run the latest OS... I guess I have to buy a new one, right? Or a game publisher shutting down online servers after a year or two. You used to be able to play online, but now you can't. Features were removed. But if you want to continue playing online... buy the new version. Old things are constantly phased out forcing you to buy new things. This is the world we now live in. You should get used to it. It's not going away.

 

[PedroLumpy]

But this isn't new? It's like Jason was so excited that he got carried to Mercury by GAF that he didn't notice that this was how the game has always been.

Well, I would consider it way more severe this time around. VoG, CE and Skolas can be challenging at 34. But at 40, with new year 2 weapons? Probably a joke. That's if you can find people to play with, not sure how many people are going to be looking to do those now that the gear is worthless.

 

[border]

The number of people playing vanilla Destiny has got to be almost next to nothing at this point.

And with a smaller player population, matchmaking playlists have to be condensed to assure decent wait times.

 

[WickedLaharl]

Its an always online game thats built around grouping to do content. If you don't keep everything together for the people who are upgrading (which is the vast majority of players) it fragments the base.

Basically if you aren't going to buy every expansion and keep up with the game its best to play something else. The game was not designed for you. People need to stop looking at Destiny like something like Halo. Its entire structure and game philosophy is different

This attitude is really disgusting.

 

[Chezzymann]

I think it's pretty scary when we have people blaming players that bought a game last year and are mad that they don't have access to the same content now.

Yes, i'm entitled to everything that the game had until the first expansion hit. If i could play strikes until level 28, i want to have access to the same shit today.

There's no excuse, i know that maintaining two (or 3) different "game worlds" is almost impossible, but that's a Bungie problem, not mine as the costumer.

If they knew this was going to be the way the game would progress (and i'm sure they knew) they should have communicated this to everyone ages ago.


Edit: And people need to stop thinking everyone wants harder playlists because of loot. The difficulty has a direct impact of the enjoyment of the game. I don't want to run a piss poor easy 20 strike as a level 34.

Seriously, I don't care if destinys content is structured like an MMO. Taking away content someone bought just because they didn't upgrade to the latest expansion is objectively a terrible practice.

 

[Alabamaman]

No that's worded poorly, there's new patrol missions that involves finding and killing high level Taken. The kill a ton of enemies patrol mission still exists.

Ok, that's good. Thanks.

 

[LifEndz]

To be honest with retailers like game stop doing $20 trade in value for vanilla destiny, you can get taken king for $20 which really is a great value.

Wait....if I trade in the disc, I now have to buy taken King and the disc, which you can do with the legendary edition for 40 bucks which kinda leaves you were you already were, no? Unless I missed something...

 

[Hellshingu]

While it sucks that old content is "not available" anymore people should realize that it is mainly because they have completely changed the leveling and light systems. Gear no longer has a light stat on it that increases your "level". Your in game level is purely gained through XP now your light level is the combination of all your attack and defense ratings. The more defense and attack your items have the higher light level you are. End game ear is no longer level 20 with light values but level 40. Seeing as vanilla and its expansion were all level 20 gear it makes sense that you would get a level 20 playlist as that was the max level in the old level system. They should add a level 34 list to appease players but the lists will drop gear of the same effectiveness they currently have anyways so it wouldn't matter besides making players think they are getting better gear which in fact they really are not.

Having essentially different "games" to appease each person based on how many DLCs they wanted to purchase would be, IMO, would be a waste of time and resources.

 

[Phanatic8390]

Having watched this stuff since the game released, I'm not surprised. Never bought Destiny at launch but I jumped in with TTK. I'm planning on getting as much out of it before the next DLC and then getting the hell out. Doesn't seem worth it to stick around without paying more, which by default I'm not inclined to do.

 

[RMI]

wow was almost tempted to get back into this with my brother cause we had some good times with vanilla destiny, but nope won't be happening. I wouldn't even be effected by this as I would have to buy the $60 package with everything anyway to come back to the game, but the idea that this would happen again down the road if I didn't want to or wasn't able to upgrade is ridiculous.

 

[Arthr2ShdsJcksn]

This attitude is really disgusting.

I find it acceptable. Destiny is a living/evolving game. At certain points you need to prune the raggedy edges to keep the plant growing.

It's no different than when games shut off their servers. Old players who paid $60 still are cut out of a swath of the original content.

 

[Brandon F]

The pre-expansion endgame experience being gutted is par for the course when it comes to MMO expansion launches, but it sounds like this is going a little farther than MMOs usually go.

I can't think of any other examples being gutted, just that the population moves on in most MMOs, leaving old content empty.

I spent most of draenor' launch in wow doing old panda content I missed. Hard to find groups for dungeons at times but at least it was entirely still available for me to see despite everyone in the new expansion.

 

[Krappadizzle]

I can't really say I'm surprised. Bungie seems to take one step forward and two steps back. I can't really believe there are so many here defending this.

I can't think of any other examples being gutted, just that the population moves on in most MMOs, leaving old content empty.

I spent most of draenor' launch in wow doing old panda content I missed. Hard to find groups for dungeons at times but at least it was entirely still available for me to see despite everyone in the new expansion.

Exactly. I don't get those that can just hand wave this as "lol, they probably weren't playing Destiny anyways." So? That shouldn't stop the content from being available should they choose to want to go and play it.

 

[Ooccoo]

Destiny, the $120 game (if you bought everything before TKK).

 

[BRocknRolla]

I'd be very surprised if Bungie doesn't go back on some of this. It does seem super shady. Even that week lead up to TTK where the changes took place felt really barren (Which is what I imagine it looks like now). I'm really enjoying TTK, but I'd be pissed if I was still on vanilla Destiny.

 

[firehawk12]

I can't think of any other examples being gutted, just that the population moves on in most MMOs, leaving old content empty.

I spent most of draenor' launch in wow doing old panda content I missed. Hard to find groups for dungeons at times but at least it was entirely still available for me to see despite everyone in the new expansion.

Presumably you can still do all the strikes that you have access to. You just can't access the best versions of the strikes that would give you the better rewards. There's nothing stopping you from seeing that content, anyway.

 

[pantsmith]

This seems much worse than it is, especially without context.

You still have access to every mission, every strike, every raid, every crucible mode, every crucible map, and every item you previously had access to. You don't lose actual, tangible content.

What people are complaining about is that, in Vanilla Destiny, you lose modifiers to those strikes and missions meant as progression content - "Heroics" and "Nightfalls" - which add difficulty to that same content in the name of progression. That progression is meaningless to a player that can't hit the level cap anymore and thus can't equip any of the rewards.

Ignoring the fact that levels don't work how they used to, nor do the "Heroic" and "Nightfall" modifiers, it doesn't make sense to have low level progression content because then all the high level players would just run that instead. You also can't out level content, so its not like vanilla Destiny is any easier - its the same content frozen at one difficulty.

A lot of the things listed in that Reddit post have been reworked entirely and "removed" to instead become something else to all players, not just those with TTK. I think anyone actually playing the game would agree the trade-off were worth it.

 

[Ragged Gloves]

It should be stated on the fuckin' outside of the game box like the Surgeon General's Warning on cigarettes: "Some of the content you get in this game can and will be restricted and/or unplayable when future expansions are released."

It should state this plainly and clearly. I don't give a damn if there is precedent for it, which there never was. You never assume people should know this. You take away parts of the game people used to play and allow only those that purchased the DLCs access is BS. There is no justification for this. They should have accommodated them by making a non-DLC playlist, for the Weekly, Crucible, etc. Otherwise, state it very clearly so people know exactly what they are getting into when they spend their money and invest their time into this game. Just another example of how Bungie treats it's player base.

LOL This is a funny post and I agree about a "buy beware."

I feel like Bungie is just winging it honestly. They have 10 years to figure it out.

 

[Krakn3Dfx]

I find it acceptable. Destiny is a living/evolving game. At certain points you need to prune the raggedy edges to keep the plant growing.

It's no different than when games shut off their servers. Old players who paid $60 still are cut out of a swath of the original content.

Except for the part where the servers are still up, the content is still there, you paid for the content, but you can't actually access that content.

 

[GECK]

Absolutely scummy. ActiviBungie is in cartoon villain territory at this point.

I can't really say I'm surprised. Bungie seems to take one step forward and two steps back. I can't really believe there are so many here defending this.

Those people have to justify their purchase of content they already previously paid for. Shouldn't be surprising at all.

 

[Seth Enosh]

I can't really say I'm surprised. Bungie seems to take one step forward and two steps back. I can't really believe there are so many here defending this.

Consolidating the strike playlists and crucible playlists is a natural step to ensure that the few players left on vanilla destiny can still have effective and fast matchmaking options. Most active players are upgrading to TTK, would you rather have a ton of playlists but not be able to find anyone?

I helped someone out in the destiny gaf thread who was trying to do the Level 8 devil's lair strike. He hadn't been able to be matchmade with anyone and when I grouped up with him the matchmaking tried for several minutes and then gave up without finding us a third player. Bungie is trying to avoid having all the old content suffer from bad matchmaking experiences like this, I don't see much wrong with it.

Edit: I do have one complaint which is that they nerfed the Intellect/Discipline/Strength stats of old gear when they redesigned the leveling system. It makes my vault of glass armor near useless in crucible because my super and grenades will charge slower than players with new armor. I have TTK so i will just get better stuff but vanilla players have no option to get their stats back up to max intellect or discipline. This is a bigger issue than playlist consolidation IMO because it affects balance.

 

[Trojan]

I feel like there are two ways to look at this:

Letter of the Law: yes, some consumers are locked out of end game content features that they were playing a week ago. Bungie should not do this because they bought the base game with those features in it.

Spirit of the Law: Bungie changed the game to benefit the players who will ante up for the new expansion. The new features are well regarded and they avoided fracturing the fan base for people who buy TTK.

I think I fall in the Spirit of the Law camp. Sucks for that small percentage of players who still play vanilla, but honestly why are you still playing endgame content a year later and expecting it to be enjoyable? The gear is essentially useless at this point and it's been available for a year.

 

[Etnos]

60$ dollar game that is basically a rental? Sounds very Destiny...

 

[Broadbandito]

60$ dollar game that is basically a rental? Sounds very Destiny...

that's a year long rental....

 

[firehawk12]

Except for the part where the servers are still up, the content is still there, you paid for the content, but you can't actually access that content.

You didn't pay for that content though. You paid for the original Destiny experience which you can still access (Well, you can't access Dinklage ).

 

[Darth Smurf X]

This seems much worse than it is, especially without context.

You still have access to every mission, every strike, every raid, every crucible mode, every crucible map, and every item you previously had access to. You don't lose actual, tangible content.

What people are complaining about is that, in Vanilla Destiny, you lose modifiers to those strikes and missions meant as progression content - "Heroics" and "Nightfalls" - which add difficulty to that same content in the name of progression. That progression is meaningless to a player that can't hit the level cap anymore and thus can't equip any of the rewards.

Ignoring the fact that levels don't work how they used to, nor do the "Heroic" and "Nightfall" modifiers, it doesn't make sense to have low level progression content because then all the high level players would just run that instead. You also can't out level content, so its not like vanilla Destiny is any easier - its the same content frozen at one difficulty.

A lot of the things listed in that Reddit post have been reworked entirely and "removed" to instead become something else to all players, not just those with TTK. I think anyone actually playing the game would agree the trade-off were worth it.

Well said. Also, if you play Crucible, you now have a bunch of free new maps to play on from the previous 2 DLCs.

 

[WickedLaharl]

I find it acceptable. Destiny is a living/evolving game. At certain points you need to prune the raggedy edges to keep the plant growing.

It's no different than when games shut off their servers. Old players who paid $60 still are cut out of a swath of the original content.

It's shouldn't be accepted nor defended at all. Telling people to go kick rocks or pay me more after i have given my $60 is absolutely terrible.

 

[Krappadizzle]

Consolidating the strike playlists and crucible playlists is a natural step to ensure that the few players left on vanilla destiny can still have effective and fast matchmaking options. Most active players are upgrading to TTK, would you rather have a ton of playlists but not be able to find anyone?

I helped someone out in the destiny gaf thread who was trying to do the Level 8 devil's lair strike. He hadn't been able to be matchmade with anyone and when I grouped up with him the matchmaking tried for several minutes and then gave up without finding us a third player. Bungie is trying to avoid having all the old content suffer from bad matchmaking experiences like this, I don't see much wrong with it.

Yes, I would rather have more options with the possibility of lesser player counts.

Just add an extra playlist that shows player count and mention it's been created to encourage fuller games. Not that hard to understand. You don't need to remove access because player count may be too low in a specific area of the game.

 

[border]

What would a Vanilla Destiny player do, even if he could run the Weekly Strikes now?

Okay, you completed a weekly strike so now you get some fraction of the maximum level reward -- let's say 5 Legendary Marks. What is a vanilla player going to spend those marks on? Guns he can't equip? Armor he can't equip?

Oh congratulations, doing that Weekly Heroic got you +200 reputation points with a faction that only sells gear you can't equip.

 

[Lothars]

Absolutely scummy. ActiviBungie is in cartoon villain territory at this point.



Those people have to justify their purchase of content they already previously paid for. Shouldn't be surprising at all.

No but it's an overreaction because they can still access all the content they paid for. All the strikes and the missions are accessable from vanilla destiny.

Plus in crucible they do have the maps from the previous expansions as well which is free to everyone now.

60$ dollar game that is basically a rental? Sounds very Destiny...

Your post makes no sense how is this a rental?

 

[Etnos]

Your post makes no sense how is this a rental?

Because you locked out of content you paid for

that's a year long rental....

Such a benevolent deal right?

 

[Jito]

Except for the part where the servers are still up, the content is still there, you paid for the content, but you can't actually access that content.

Lol this is getting out of hand now, no one is a victim here, it's just a fucking video game.

So its their fault to expect to be able to play the stuff they bought when they bought the base game? Its also wrong if people still enjoy this particular content? There are people that replay games every year or even more than that and they still enjoy that, so it really doesnt matter how old it is

It's not really applicable to a game like Destiny though, the base game never had moments (other than the raids which are still there and perfectly playable just like before) that made people say:

"I'm going to replay this every year, but only the nightfall variant when it comes into the weekly rotation, I hope Bungie never updates this game so I can keep playing this old content as the game moves on without me!"

That would be pretty fucking stupid.

 

[gai_shain]

I feel like there are two ways to look at this:

Letter of the Law: yes, some consumers are locked out of end game content features that they were playing a week ago. Bungie should not do this because they bought the base game with those features in it.

Spirit of the Law: Bungie changed the game to benefit the players who will ante up for the new expansion. The new features are well regarded and they avoided fracturing the fan base for people who buy TTK.

I think I fall in the Spirit of the Law camp. Sucks for that small percentage of players who still play vanilla, but honestly why are you still playing endgame content a year later and expecting it to be enjoyable? The gear is essentially useless at this point and it's been available for a year.

So its their fault to expect to be able to play the stuff they bought when they bought the base game? Its also wrong if people still enjoy this particular content? There are people that replay games every year or even more than that and they still enjoy that, so it really doesnt matter how old it is

 

[Spirit of Jazz]

Destiny's a really fun game with a really shitty business practice that I don't want to support.

 

[CloudyTuba]

Wow I was totally prepared to be locked out of new content, I even understand matchmaking being adjusted to have a classic mode since I dont have all the maps, but other things actually being removed from the game I already own? Add ons are supposed to add, not take away.
Bungie can fuck right off, I wish I hadnt bought this digitally. I wonder if I can get a gift card or something by complaining to PSN that my game was patched to be less than I paid for.

Bungie is now on my shitlist. Before I was just disapproving and upset about their overall attitude regarding the game, but now it's full on shitlist. What a sad day.

 

[Hellshingu]

It's shouldn't be accepted nor defended at all. Telling people to go kick rocks or pay me more after i have given my $60 is absolutely terrible.

But all vanilla players DIDN'T LOSE ANY CONTENT. Everything is still there they can still access everything they had access to before. All that happened was that the leveling and light system change thus the playlists changed. They can add a level 34 strike playlist but the rewards will be exactly the same as the 20 playlist except enemies will have more health. The crucible playlists were consolidated because most players moved to the new expansion so consolidating playlists so the waits times won't be as long because of the diminished player pool. The only thing they lost is the world events for crota and HoW but everyone cant do those anymore. People who didn't buy the expansions actually have more content technically because they have all the PvP maps from the last 2 expansions even if they didn't buy them.

 

[Deleted member 752119]

I find it acceptable. Destiny is a living/evolving game. At certain points you need to prune the raggedy edges to keep the plant growing.

It's no different than when games shut off their servers. Old players who paid $60 still are cut out of a swath of the original content.

I think the issue is that they really should have just gone with a subscription model.

They're trying to do MMO-lite by having people need to buy periodic DLC to really keep playing long-term, and that's frustrating people who are looking at it like a regular game where you just buy it and play it and any DLC is totally optional.

They should have just had a monthly fee or $10 or whatever. Put out new weapons, small DLCs like the first two at no extra charge, and put out a $40 major expansion like the TKK every year or two just like Warcraft and what not.

But that's hard as console gamers aren't used to paying monthly fees for games. And it is a fee on top of the XBL Gold/PS+ subscriptions people are paying, where as online play is free on PC aside from any game specific subscriptions.

But, in any case, the game sold gangbusters, and TKK is as well. So it's clear it's working and that they're likely fine catering to that base and letting the people who don't want to buy every DLC move on to other games. I mean, they already got the $$$ for the vanilla version from those folks, if they aren't going to give them more money, they have little reason to care since Destiny is the only thing Bungie will put out in the foreseeable future and most of the 10 year plan is DLC.

 

[Lothars]

Wow I was totally prepared to be locked out of new content, I even understand matchmaking being adjusted to have a classic mode since I dont have all the maps, but other things actually being removed from the game I already own? Add ons are supposed to add, not take away.
Bungie can fuck right off, I wish I hadnt bought this digitally. I wonder if I can get a gift card or something by complaining to PSN that my game was patched to be less than I paid for.

Bungie is now on my shitlist. Before I was just disapproving and upset about their overall attitude regarding the game, but now it's full on shitlist. What a sad day.

You still have access to all the content that you paid for. It changes but you can access all the missions and all the vanilla content.

 

[Seth Enosh]

But all vanilla players DIDN'T LOSE ANY CONTENT. Everything is still there they can still access everything they had access to before. All that happened was that the leveling and light system change thus the playlists changed. They can add a level 34 strike playlist but the rewards will be exactly the same as the 20 playlist except enemies will have more health. The crucible playlists were consolidated because most players moved to the new expansion so consolidating playlists so the waits times won't be as long because of the diminished player pool. The only thing they lost is the world events for crota and HoW but everyone cant do those anymore.

There was never a level 34 strike playlist anyway.

The highest strike playlist vanilla users had was Level 24 Tiger Strikes I think (level 26 and 28 required TDB and HOW respectively). There isn't much difference between that and the new Level 20 Legacy playlist because of how damage scaling works in the game. Even when you're level 34 and fighting level 20 enemies your weapons do the same damage as a level 34 fighting level 32 enemies, and your damage resistance isn't much increased either.

Level 20 strikes aren't giving rewards right now but Bungie already posted on release day that it's a bug they're working to fix ASAP outside their patch cycle.

 

[Latvian Hitman]

This seems much worse than it is, especially without context.

You still have access to every mission, every strike, every raid, every crucible mode, every crucible map, and every item you previously had access to. You don't lose actual, tangible content.

What people are complaining about is that, in Vanilla Destiny, you lose modifiers to those strikes and missions meant as progression content - "Heroics" and "Nightfalls" - which add difficulty to that same content in the name of progression. That progression is meaningless to a player that can't hit the level cap anymore and thus can't equip any of the rewards.

Ignoring the fact that levels don't work how they used to, nor do the "Heroic" and "Nightfall" modifiers, it doesn't make sense to have low level progression content because then all the high level players would just run that instead. You also can't out level content, so its not like vanilla Destiny is any easier - its the same content frozen at one difficulty.

A lot of the things listed in that Reddit post have been reworked entirely and "removed" to instead become something else to all players, not just those with TTK. I think anyone actually playing the game would agree the trade-off were worth it.

Excellent, well-reasoned post.

 

[tanooki27]

be interesting to see how bungie responds, if at all.

 

[PedroLumpy]

It wouldn't take too much, add a higher level strike playlist and allow you to participate in NFs if it's on a strike you have access to. Wouldn't impact TTK players.

 

[Commanche Raisin Toast]

As someone that bought vanilla Destiny and each expansion, is level 34, and has put a ton of time into this game, I'm a bit annoyed.

If I want to go replay old missions or strikes etc I'm limited to either doing it at Level 20, making it way too easy, or I have to wait till I'm level 38 or 40.

I also obtained a level 38 gun somehow and the game won't let me put it in my (not full) vault. Just beeps and says no.

This is the Destiny cycle, do a thing, fuck it up, deny it's an issue, fuck up again, finally admit there's problems, fix them, introduce new changes, fuck up again, etc. etc.

 

[FStop7]

Hey I love a good Destiny bashing as much as the next guy but this is kind of a thin complaint.

 

[Hellshingu]

There was never a level 34 strike playlist anyway.

The highest strike playlist vanilla users had was Level 24 Tiger Strikes I think (level 26 and 28 required TDB and HOW respectively). There isn't much difference between that and the new Level 20 Legacy playlist because of how damage scaling works in the game. Even when you're level 34 and fighting level 20 enemies your weapons do the same damage as a level 34 fighting level 32 enemies, and your damage resistance isn't much increased either.

Level 20 strikes aren't giving rewards right now but Bungie already posted on release day that it's a bug they're working to fix ASAP outside their patch cycle.

I know there wasn't a 34 playlist but people that are freaking out right now are doing so because the playlist is now level 20 and they think they are losing content. I am also aware of the bug not giving rewards to players so as I said no one lost any content. Most players don't understand the leveling changes and are having a bad reaction to something they don't even understand fully.

 

[Broadbandito]

I know there wasn't a 34 playlist but people that are freaking out right now are doing so because the playlist is now level 20 and they think they are losing content. I am also aware of the bug not giving rewards to players so as I said no one lost any content. Most players don't understand the leveling changes and are having a bad reaction to something they don't even understand fully.

bingo

 

[rav]

Well said. Also, if you play Crucible, you now have a bunch of free new maps to play on from the previous 2 DLCs.

Also it appears you can play the DLC Strikes even if you didn't buy HoW / TDB from the legacy strike list.

 

[Mindwipe]

be interesting to see how bungie responds, if at all.

I'm sure they'll respond just as well as they did on the UK price gouging.

 

[Ragged Gloves]

While this is poor deal for vanilla, the content is withheld, I believe, because theyve changed a lot of it to incorporate the taken enemies. If the vanilla content is changed to contain dlc, how can it be played by everyone? It can not.

Too bad with this dlc, they didn't create new areas with taken enemies instead of incorporating them in the old places that shut other players out. If they had, would these issues exist?

Hopefully, Bungie can make a wrong a right to those wanting to continue to play the game they paid for.

 

[Hellshingu]

Also it appears you can play the DLC Strikes even if you didn't buy HoW / TDB from the legacy strike list.

Wow really? I never knew that. So the vanilla players that don't have any expansions are getting all the PvP maps and strikes from the expansions and are shitting on this game because they have less content in reality actually have more?