Support NeoGAF

[polybius80]

Those He-Man textures are much, much lower detail than the Shenmue textures. The number of unique patterns is far lower and the number of colours in each texture is also much lower. PS2 typically sacrificed either texture resolution or colour compared to its peers.

The sheer amount of variety and colour in that Shenmue 2 screen still impresses me. DC was a relatively low cost, low power draw console using chips first introduced in the early 1998 Naomi board. Incredible. That He-Man game isn't even on the same planet.

wich texture? the floor, tents and most walls are obviously lower resolution, and he man's body has the same if not better resolution than ryo cloths, the problem with shenmue is that it is very inconsitent in texture quality you can have a magazine or a book shelf with very good resolution but then find very low resolution in cars cloth and other objects or a good face also there is a lot of problems with UV they are not properly mapped maybe the artists were new or the tools where not as good

ps2 had more games than the rest of consoles obviously there are games made with low budget that on top of a different texturing system and a complicated hardware but used properly there is no problem










try comparing baldurs gate vs phantasy star online

Even when efficiently cycling textures during rendering a frame, the PS2 is hard pressed to match ~5.5 MB of VQ compressed textures while accounting for geometry levels typically involved in impressive PS2 games. The DC could also use tri-linear filtering (and even anisotropic filtering), but many games didn't use it as turning it off allowed for an easy performance gain.

why is it hard pressed to match 5.5 MB? on a similar setup as GC, the PS2 can use 2 MB as texture cache(GC has 1 MB), PS2 has 9.6 GB/s access for textures alone while DC has 800 MB/s for all VRAM, DC VQ its good to mitigate this slow memory to an extend some people like to change speed or size to 2.1-6.3 GB/s or 25 to 63 MB (it depends textures and framebuffer) with compression, PS2 has 9.6 GB/s of access just for textures while DC has to share with framebuffers and that is without counting compresion wich can be the standard CLUT or another custom algorithm that devs can implement

and if you want to take textures from main RAM DC has 800 MB/s access to it and PS2 3.2 GB/s

whats with the trilinear filtering? GS supports it too what is so important about it?

 

[alabtrosMyster]

The market evolves too. What worked psychologically in 2013 might not in 2020. Maybe what Sony pulled in 2013 is a once in a lifetime strategy based a LOT on Microsoft's hari-kiri. Of course when a rival is suiciding themselves, you take advantage! Since Sony wasn't able to knock MS out of the market, and I don't believe Phil Spencer is going to pull a Don Mattrick 2013, they can try their old tricks. It will work for SonyGAF, but for the wider audience, no way.

There are two sides to this, people were ready to buy XbO in drove after the 360 years, they had both trust and good will... instead they delivered an under powered console that cost more than what the competition was offering.... but they did have the good will in their favor, I know me and some people I know were ready to jump ship

PS3 CoD players certainly were about to go.
Or just people looking for a relatively well integrated gaming system. Unfortunately for MS, and despite what the American press wanted us to believe, Sony came up with an elegant OS that offered most important features, had quality of life in gaming as its center point... MS, well they just gave us the Windows 10 with controller input machine... and a couple of xbox apps that did not perform so well.
Add to this that back in 2013 MS's reputation as a games publisher was not completely ruined.
Their implementation of backward compatibility also cost them sales in the end, at least around me, the fact that the support is patchy (at best) many who bought one thinking they could bring it home and play their existing library only to find out most games weren't compatible... well they returned it to the store, certainly not all, but it's not all rosy.

But as you said, Ms was pretty bad, but this is not as if Sony did not play their cards well too, in every way conceivable Sony delivered, if they had played the same game as MS they would have been in trouble too (I would not have upgraded for another sub 1080p generation, no way, I would have upgraded my PC and called it a day).

 

[Dory16]

wich texture? the floor, tents and most walls are obviously lower resolution, and he man's body has the same if not better resolution than ryo cloths, the problem with shenmue is that it is very inconsitent in texture quality you can have a magazine or a book shelf with very good resolution but then find very low resolution in cars cloth and other objects or a good face also there is a lot of problems with UV they are not properly mapped maybe the artists were new or the tools where not as good

ps2 had more games than the rest of consoles obviously there are games made with low budget that on top of a different texturing system and a complicated hardware but used properly there is no problem










try comparing baldurs gate vs phantasy star online

why is it hard pressed to match 5.5 MB? on a similar setup as GC, the PS2 can use 2 MB as texture cache(GC has 1 MB), PS2 has 9.6 GB/s access for textures alone while DC has 800 MB/s for all VRAM, DC VQ its good to mitigate this slow memory to an extend some people like to change speed or size to 2.1-6.3 GB/s or 25 to 63 MB (it depends textures and framebuffer) with compression, PS2 has 9.6 GB/s of access just for textures while DC has to share with framebuffers and that is without counting compresion wich can be the standard CLUT or another custom algorithm that devs can implement

and if you want to take textures from main RAM DC has 800 MB/s access to it and PS2 3.2 GB/s

whats with the trilinear filtering? GS supports it too what is so important about it?

This somehow turned into a Dreamcast vs PS2 argument? Btw Shame on Sony for moneyhatting all the third party publishers away from the beautiful Dreamcast. Also, the monumental slap served by NFL2K on the Dreamcast to Madden 2000 will never be forgotten in gaming history.

 

[CrisPy2019]

The performance comparison between the 2 most relevant video game consoles is legitimately of great interest to professional video game journalists. They don't control that your feelings get hurt by them informing the general public about the difference between the products that will be available to purchase. You do.

Most relevant? By what metric Fanboyism and arrogance?

Or having a superiority complex and bragging about horsepower yet failing so bad against computers?

Appereantly everyone even the two most relevant think Nintendo is pretty relevant at least when it comes to"what ideas can we copy". Be it controller design or gameplay concepts.


I love this kind of nonsense bragging. What was the point of that nonsense anyway? How about just mentioning the console without trying to make the third pillar of the community look like shit?

 

[CervantesPR1]

Xbox is becoming a nuisance!
I HATE the Idea of XBOX LOCKHART because it will negatively affect multiplat games this gen. developers will be forced to design games around the limitations of the lockhart in mind. Pretty much an xbox one x with with a better CPU. Game design and creativity will be limited by the lockhart specs. We wont get true next generation gaming if developers are designing games with last gen hardware in mind and it truly sucks.

However,I cant say Microsoft is making bad moves here from a financial standpoint. They know they are seriously outmatched when it comes to games and popularity. They know that if they compete with sony in any way by being more or less equal, they will get trashed all generation. They cannot stop sony by releasing at the same price. So they opted to release a last gen console at a cheap price.

As great as playstation is, they cannot beat xbox if the PS5 is $100 more expensive than the lockhart. CASUALS ARE NOT LOYAL customers. The average casual gamer is going to be like "it plays all the current games and its $100 cheaper, I guess I'm going xbox this gen!"

xbox being cheaper will give xbox the sales advantge and with the series X, they will also have the power advantage, not to mention the fact that halo infinite is launching with the thing.

 

[Dory16]

Most relevant? By what metric Fanboyism and arrogance?

Or having a superiority complex and bragging about horsepower yet failing so bad against computers?

Appereantly everyone even the two most relevant think Nintendo is pretty relevant at least when it comes to"what ideas can we copy". Be it controller design or gameplay concepts.


I love this kind of nonsense bragging. What was the point of that nonsense anyway? How about just mentioning the console without trying to make the third pillar of the community look like shit?

Most relevant to gamers over the age of twelve.
You’re welcome.

 

[alabtrosMyster]

that is so wrong it's funny.

the PS3 released a full year after the 360 and had a worse GPU and lacked the 360s EDRAM.

PS3 is the exception.

PS1 was the 3D power house when it released in 1994 ( I mean the Saturn was not that bad, but it wasn't as good as the PS1, especially for 3D).

PS2 was a monster of 3D as well, it could do things no other machine could dream of when it was released, especially consoles.

PS3.... well this is the PS3, errors were made

PS4 that was the best/most powerful console at the time of release, in every way imaginable.

Now in each of these cases much more powerful consoles came out later, this is how technology works, things change and they change fast.

Some delusion from one side of the camp I guess. It's ridiculous to think that Microsoft looked at the PS4 Pro and decided "we're gonna copy that" and released their console about a year later. It's not how shit works.

The guy above you NEVER mentioned the PS4 PRO (MS even announced the X before the PRO if I am not mistaken), and never have I seen anyone saying the PRO was the inspiration for the X.

You should read more carefully when you bad mouth someone's idea. I am sure that in some meeting at MS a big wig said something like: Why didn't our engineer think of something like Sony did with the base PS4, get me the same burger but add two sausages, twice as much mustard and put in 3 times more ketchup.

So the engineers went out and bought some GDDR5.

I mean, otherwise they would have ordered a chip with 128MB of ESRAM, added 4 more GB or DDR4 with the faster CPU/GPU and they would have called it a day... that would have been an Xbox One X that followed on the steps of its predecessor.

Now I have no problem with what they did, it's not like Sony invented NUMA, GDDR5, or the AMD chip(s) they use, but claiming that there was no inspiration - at the very least - taken from the other side is lunacy.

 

[Omega Supreme Holopsicon]

it is the 9.2tf coming from 36 cu at high clocks that is the issue. it would be very hot and use 50% more energy than a 56 cu 12tf xsx. That would be a disaster.

If those 12 Tflops are on RDNA architecture, but the rumor of ps5 dev being stronger and 9.2 Tflop ps5 dev could both be true if as someone said the x series is vega based while the ps5 is navi based.

Before the showcase, Game Informer’s Andrew Reiner let loose a series of tweets where he stated that developers told him that the unofficially named PlayStation 5 is stronger than the next Xbox — aka Project Scarlett. -digital trends

: A PlayStation Podcast, former IGN journalist Colin Moriarty noted that he's heard similar things. More specifically, according to what Moriarty has heard, the PS5 is "definitively more powerful" than the next Xbox. -comicbook.com

What would be an interesting scenario would be a $399 sony, vs a $399 xbox (let's call it xbox series s, same power as ps5) and monster $599 series x with elite controller with more power. Would this not change the whole game? Xbox would have a mainstream compatible "next gen" box model, and an elite model.

Would be nice to see, but the issue is the rumors are that microsoft has both a 12Tflops and a 4Tflops
xbox

edit

As great as playstation is, they cannot beat xbox if the PS5 is $100 more expensive than the lockhart. CASUALS ARE NOT LOYAL customers. The average casual gamer is going to be like "it plays all the current games and its $100 cheaper, I guess I'm going xbox this gen!"

It remains to be seen what sony first party can do with next gen h/w. But they could easily blow away consumers with next gen graphics. Also Kojima might be on board and we all remember the mgs2 trailer for ps2 and how many thought it was not possible.

 

[alabtrosMyster]

so it’s a fact that NINTENDO - and NOT Sony - made Home console gaming popular. Nintendo basically „killed“ arcade gaming.

Technology advancement killed arcade gaming, there were plenty of kids in the arcades in the early to mid 1990s, until 3Dfx/the PS1/N64 came out... I remember my own attitude changing, I went to the arcade and things were not that impressive anymore, I mean sure Daytona USA and other big Sega games were still out of reach, but these were the exception, and when 1998/1999 happened with the Dreamcast, even faster 3D accelerators on PC... then the PS2. Arcades just died and nobody noticed.

Sure Nintendo played a part, but they are certainly not the main reason, I mean arcades used to be like theater for video games, he great stuff came out there first, the most impressive experiences were to be had there, etc. at some point they would just not offer the wow factor anymore, so why bother going out?

 

[MoreJRPG]

Xbox is becoming a nuisance!
I HATE the Idea of XBOX LOCKHART because it will negatively affect multiplat games this gen. developers will be forced to design games around the limitations of the lockhart in mind. Pretty much an xbox one x with with a better CPU. Game design and creativity will be limited by the lockhart specs. We wont get true next generation gaming if developers are designing games with last gen hardware in mind and it truly sucks.

 

[alabtrosMyster]

Appereantly everyone even the two most relevant think Nintendo is pretty relevant at least when it comes to"what ideas can we copy". Be it controller design or gameplay concepts.

Well, I don't think anyone copied a Nintendo controller since what? the SNES? maybe the analog stick on the N64 could be considered core enough to have pushed Sony to add their dual analog sticks.... Since then most everything relevant is derivative from the DualShock controller.

 

[StreetsofBeige]

Yeah they was saying that we would be lucky if we even got 4GB

Latest reliable Orbis and Durango specs

Disclaimer: Everything isn't final, but the general range of these system are more or less set in stone. Durango: AMD CPU, 6-8 cores Ram 3-4 GB AMD GPU Total processing power 1-1.2 teraflops Note: I've heard of 8GB ram from reliable people on this form, but a certain, well...

www.neogaf.com

Wow. June 2012. A year and half out from launch. And here we are trying to understand PS5/Series X leaks less than a year from retail.

Whomever told the net these leaks was close. The ram amounts are way off, but even the bumper rumour of 8GB was spot on.

TF counts for both systems basically spot on. Orbis even has GDDR5 ram.

Given the accurate TF, but at lower ram and cpu cores, looks like the cpu/gpu at the time might have been better than what we got, but the ram got bumped up to 8GB for each.

 

[PocoJoe]

Xbox is becoming a nuisance!
I HATE the Idea of XBOX LOCKHART because it will negatively affect multiplat games this gen. developers will be forced to design games around the limitations of the lockhart in mind. Pretty much an xbox one x with with a better CPU. Game design and creativity will be limited by the lockhart specs. We wont get true next generation gaming if developers are designing games with last gen hardware in mind and it truly sucks.

However,I cant say Microsoft is making bad moves here from a financial standpoint. They know they are seriously outmatched when it comes to games and popularity. They know that if they compete with sony in any way by being more or less equal, they will get trashed all generation. They cannot stop sony by releasing at the same price. So they opted to release a last gen console at a cheap price.

As great as playstation is, they cannot beat xbox if the PS5 is $100 more expensive than the lockhart. CASUALS ARE NOT LOYAL customers. The average casual gamer is going to be like "it plays all the current games and its $100 cheaper, I guess I'm going xbox this gen!"

xbox being cheaper will give xbox the sales advantge and with the series X, they will also have the power advantage, not to mention the fact that halo infinite is launching with the thing.

Money comes from games/subscriptions mostly

What i have read is most casuals buy 1-5 games for a console, TOTAL in a gen.

So if loyal core gamers stay and some casuals go to xbox, maybe not so big of a deal.

And games still matter, if casual wants to play sony games, they get ps5.

Dunno how many of 100m ps4 owners are casuals, that type that just gets whatever is cheapest, not many i bet.

if being cheaper would sell tons of consoles* over other things, xbox one s should sell like crazy because it is much cheaper than ps4.

And we know it doesnt.

Ps. Didnt MS also say that all games will work on xbox one s too?

That will fuck things up more than lockhart

*On US this could work but rest of the world likes Playstation much more than xbox as a brand, and current gen didnt do any good for xbox

 

[thelastword]

If those 12 Tflops are on RDNA architecture, but the rumor of ps5 dev being stronger and 9.2 Tflop ps5 dev could both be true if as someone said the x series is vega based while the ps5 is navi based.

If this happens heads will roll, especially after all the hype surrounding 12TF vs 9TF, by persons already convinced of those numbers and posting it as a forgone conclusion.....

Yeah they was saying that we would be lucky if we even got 4GB

Latest reliable Orbis and Durango specs

Disclaimer: Everything isn't final, but the general range of these system are more or less set in stone. Durango: AMD CPU, 6-8 cores Ram 3-4 GB AMD GPU Total processing power 1-1.2 teraflops Note: I've heard of 8GB ram from reliable people on this form, but a certain, well...

www.neogaf.com

Still remember that thread, funny enough I saw this poster telling one of the GAF leakers who said that this leak was incorrect, that he is going to eat crow or some such...…..Avatar bets, Gaf gold bets et al......

I hope you do a mashup of some of these posts when the specs are officially revealed, should be a riot.....

 

[onQ123]

Wow. June 2012. A year and half out from launch. And here we are trying to understand PS5/Series X leaks less than a year from retail.

Whomever told the net these leaks was close. The ram amounts are way off, but even the bumper rumour of 8GB was spot on.

TF counts for both systems basically spot on. Orbis even has GDDR5 ram.

Given the accurate TF, but at lower ram and cpu cores, looks like the cpu/gpu at the time might have been better than what we got, but the ram got bumped up to 8GB for each.

Yeah they leaked early last time with details but we also got Scarlett specs pretty early Jan/Feb 2019 for a late 2020 release , PS5 is the only mystery all the way up to less than a year before release & we still don't know what's going on , even the leaks from insiders don't tell us much.

 

[thelastword]

Hey it would be interesting if Sony goes with an Infinity Fabric GPU and CPU, dual RDNA 2 GPU's (5700 x 2) at 7nm+ on a wafer......and 2 (8 core cpu's) on a wafer for 16 Physical cores, no HT......

Just remember,r 5700 is just representative of the power spec, on RDNA 2, the current 5700 GPU will be much more efficient, draw lower power and will be much faster...….As for RAM, I expect 24GB on the low end with a high chance of Sony going for 32GB.....

 

[alabtrosMyster]

Dunno how many of 100m ps4 owners are casuals, that type that just gets whatever is cheapest, not many i bet.

if being cheaper would sell tons of consoles* over other things, xbox one s should sell like crazy because it is much cheaper than ps4.

And we know it doesnt.

Ps. Didnt MS also say that all games will work on xbox one s too?

This is all about balance, if a console is cheaper, but appears too weak (yet has a similar library) word will pass around and only those who think they don't care at all will get it.

That being said, there can be a some level of misinformation, I met some people who had only ever seen the "specs sheet" published by places like GameSpot or IGN - both hiding the differences in GPU power between the PS4/XBO - and though that these consoles were literally the same.

So cheaper is good, but not at the cost of looking weak (like barely a generational leap). Same for equal price, you must offer some benefit to stand out.

MS said that the Series X would be fully forward and backward compatible, so it will run old games and newer games should run on old machines (they did not say how these games would perform). So that could have an effect on how games are made, or that could be an option offered to third parties who would develop games for the old machines anyway (but then, why not just make a base xbox disc and let series X owners use this through backward compat?)

 

[CrisPy2019]

Well, I don't think anyone copied a Nintendo controller since what? the SNES? maybe the analog stick on the N64 could be considered core enough to have pushed Sony to add their dual analog sticks.... Since then most everything relevant is derivative from the DualShock controller.

How? Rumble N64. Separate camera controls "CButtons" also n64. Those turned into a camera stick so NOPE not a derivative of the Sony controller. The Sony controller is a derivative of the SNES and N64 controller.

Wiimote was turned into move and Kinect.

DS and later the WiiU used touch controls look what the PS4 controller does. Again touch. Coincidence....
WiiU had a headphone jack. PS4 does as well but I think the 360 controller can be called the "first" since it had a headset port.

Who are you trying to fool here ?

The only thing Sony came up with was memory cards but only to fix the flaw of not being able to save otherwise. Tbh I am not sure if that's even the case because I never owned nor cared about older CD based systems so even that might be not thanks to Sony. Is not about controllers anyway.

I'm not saying that Nintendo invented stuff. But they have influenced Sony since forever. I am saying that of the former 4 now 3 console manufacturers Sony came up with what? Without at least building upon a competitors work?

Nothing.

No wait I'm wrong they came up with colorful lights in the move and PS4 controller that drain my battery.
What an innovation. Something so amazing people pay extra to buy stickers and shit to make the light go away.

And having rechargeable batteries. But that's not something positive because you cannot simply change batteries within 10seconds but instead have to wait for the controller to be charged. Also if the battery dies the controller does unless you know how to replace the battery or want to sit with a cable. Like in pre WaveBird times. (Guess who made the WaveBird. Hint: NOT Sony. It was not Nintendo's invention but started the wireless trend.)


Are we done with bragging about stuff that should not be bragged about now? Saying Sony is relevant but Nintendo is not is just foolish. Even Sony knows this. They would never say this because it would backfire. They always do the same stuff others do within a year. If it would be 6 years apart okay. But immediately jumping on the bandwagon tells a story. Trying to profit of someone else's work. Or someone else's risk (in case it was not someone else's work when stuff already existed)

It's always Sony fans picking fights with MS or Nintendo fans.... I wonder why.

People should hate Nintendo as much as they want but fucking pay respect where it's due or go to retardera.

 

[Rolling_Start]

How? Rumble N64. Separate camera controls "CButtons" also n64. Those turned into a camera stick so NOPE not a derivative of the Sony controller. The Sony controller is a derivative of the SNES and N64 controller.

Wiimote was turned into move and Kinect.

DS and later the WiiU used touch controls look what the PS4 controller does. Again touch. Coincidence....
WiiU had a headphone jack. PS4 does as well but I think the 360 controller can be called the "first" since it had a headset port.

Who are you trying to fool here ?

The only thing Sony came up with was memory cards but only to fix the flaw of not being able to save otherwise. Tbh I am not sure if that's even the case because I never owned not cared about older CD based systems so even that might be not thanks to Sony.

I'm not saying that Nintendo invented stuff. But they have influenced Sony since forever. I am saying that of the former 4 now 3 console manufacturers Sony came up with what? Without at least building upon a competitors work?

Nothing.

No wait I'm wrong they came up with colorful lights in the move and PS4 controller that drain my battery.
What an innovation. Something so amazing people pay extra to buy stickers and shit to make the light go away.

Are we done with bragging about stuff that should not be bragged about now? Saying Sony is relevant but Nintendo is not is just foolish. Even Sony knows this. They would never say this because it would backfire. They always do the same stuff others do within a year. If it would be 6 years apart okay. But immediately jumping on the bandwagon tells a story. Trying to profit of someone else's work. Or someone else's risk (in case it was not someone else's work when stuff already existed)

It's always Sony fans picking fights with MS or Nintendo fans.... I wonder why.

People should hate Nintendo as much as they want but fucking pay respect where it's due or go to retardera.

Analog and even twin analog predates Nintendo; Tapwave Zodiac was a touch screen gaming device before DS; Sega had a screen and speaker in a console controller before Nintendo; 3DO had a headphone jack in a controller before anyone; Sega had motion controls before Nintendo; Neo Geo had memory cards before Sony .... yadda yadda yadda ....

All the big players have helped move gaming forwards, but it's often by taking an idea that's existed before refining it and integrating it into a product and then supporting it with software people want to use.

Nintendo's great skill is in combining hardware and software and creating really great experiences. And I'm sure everyone pays attention to how they do that. You'd be silly not to!

 

[CrisPy2019]

Analog and even twin analog predates Nintendo; Tapwave Zodiac was a touch screen gaming device before DS; Sega had a screen and speaker in a console controller before Nintendo; 3DO had a headphone jack in a controller before anyone; Sega had motion controls before Nintendo; Neo Geo had memory cards before Sony .... yadda yadda yadda ....

All the big players have helped move gaming forwards, but it's often by taking an idea that's existed before refining it and integrating it into a product and then supporting it with software people want to use.

Nintendo's great skill is in combining hardware and software and creating really great experiences. And I'm sure everyone pays attention to how they do that. You'd be silly not to!

You clearly can't read lol. Better luck next time. I am NOT pro Nintendo. I am against that " Nintendo controller were not influential but Sony controller were" nonsense.

Got it?

 

[Dee Dah Dave]

Perhaps it’s 9TF with PowerVR ray tracing on the side. Whereas the Xbox is 12TF with AMD’s own implementation.

That would be interesting if they are both roughly equal in power but get there by different means.

 

[Farawayfromhell]

Again, the MS of 2019 is not the same MS of 2013.

THIS.

 

[-Jay-Rod-]

how desperate... sony fanboys now need to fake screenshots lol
if you knew this, why didnt you post something about this beforehand? no one knew this. stop lying

 

[-Jay-Rod-]

how desperate... sony fanboys now need to fake screenshots lol
if you knew this, why didnt you post something about this beforehand? no one knew this. stop lying

 

[Zimmy68]

I knew it was a bad sign when they had PS5 dev kits in the wild way too early.
Doesn't matter to me, I will be getting both.

 

[-Jay-Rod-]

why would I lie

 

[-Jay-Rod-]

what is photoshop alex?

 

[01011001]

Didn’t the Xbox upscale the res no matter what the game was? Ie: 720p or 900p upscale to 1080p

uhm....?

yes, the Xbox One upscales... just like the Wii U... the 360... the PS4... the Switch... every semi modern console in fact (except the PS3 if the developers didn't implement a software solution)

but I also don't get how this is in any way relevant to what is being said in the comment you quoted ro be honest.

 

[Heinrich]

Ok.

I tried to track the source and the tests.

There is basically 4 chips that AMD tested in early August but nobody says what they are.
So people are assuming the 56 CU @ 1700Mhz is the Xbox One Serie X and the 36 CU @ 2000Mhz is the PS5.

The 56 CU @ 1700Mhz is suppose to be Xbox One Serie X because MS said it has twice the power of Xbox One X but nobody knows if it is TFs count or just overall performance (Navi delivery better performance per TFs than Vega).

For now I couldn't any evidence these chips are even related with next-gen consoles.


Nothing new... just comments on the assumptions about the chips tested.

There is an article if you feel better: https://www.eurogamer.net/articles/...laystation-5-xbox-series-x-spec-leak-analysed

The fuck is a „Xbox One Serie X“? At least say „Series X“.
Can’t take you seriously, if you don’t even know the name of the console, dude.

 

[01011001]

Ok.

I tried to track the source and the tests.

There is basically 4 chips that AMD tested in early August but nobody says what they are.
So people are assuming the 56 CU @ 1700Mhz is the Xbox One Serie X and the 36 CU @ 2000Mhz is the PS5.

could be because that 36 CU 2GHz chip has additional modes that exactly replicate PS4 and PS4pro specs?
you know... that's a not very subtle hint that this chip might have something to do with Sony

 

[Heinrich]

Didn’t the Xbox upscale the res no matter what the game was? Ie: 720p or 900p upscale to 1080p

I get this reference. Hallo Aaron Greenberg. Still one of my fav tweets.

 

[ethomaz]

The fuck is a „Xbox One Serie X“? At least say „Series X“.
Can’t take you seriously, if you don’t even know the name of the console, dude.

XTower?

 

[TeamGhobad]

I get this reference. Hallo Aaron Greenberg. Still one of my fav tweets.

classic

 

[Rolling_Start]

You clearly can't read lol. Better luck next time. I am NOT pro Nintendo. I am against that " Nintendo controller were not influential but Sony controller were" nonsense.

Got it?

Not really. There seemed to be a lot of points were uncertain / wrong about. But you do you!

 

[farmerboy]

My two cents on this:

Also, Mark Cerny confirmed that the PS5 will support ray tracing, so it's either embedded in the GPU or a separate piece of silicon for dedicated hardware. I am thinking that's going to the separate from the GPU, hence the lower Tflop count, because there's dedicated hardware dealing with it.

The Series X on the other hand would need more Tflops in the GPU because their ray tracing solution is integrated in the GPU, and part of that higher Tflop count will be spent on ray tracing.

So both options would balance out one another. They are simply different approaches for a similar outcome.

You've touched on this, and I personally think it's a possibility.

Mention has been made of a possible Power VR chip handling the raytracing duties. If so, then all arguements of gpu flops would be mute.

Cerny said PS5 will have custom audio solution. What chance that chip also handles RT?

 

[Shmunter]

You've touched on this, and I personally think it's a possibility.

Mention has been made of a possible Power VR chip handling the raytracing duties. If so, then all arguements of gpu flops would be mute.

Cerny said PS5 will have custom audio solution. What chance that chip also handles RT?

I like the idea of a co-processor doing the RT. What we've seen from the current embedded RT solutions on PC is huge performance penalties, its possible Sony wants to push RT forward, and the best way to do it is with little to no performance degradation.

Certainly if Sony does take such a bold step, the console comparisons will take on a whole new meaning rather than bland 12 vs 9tf of the same exact thing resulting in predictable outcomes.

 

[Rolling_Start]

I like the idea of a co-processor doing the RT. What we've seen from the current embedded RT solutions on PC is huge performance penalties, its possible Sony wants to push RT forward, and the best way to do it is with little to no performance degradation.

Certainly if Sony does take such a bold step, the console comparisons will take on a whole new meaning rather than bland 12 vs 9tf of the same exact thing resulting in predictable outcomes.

I think a strong ray tracing solution would need to be highly integrated with the rest of the GPU to allow for efficient use of hybrid rendering. For example, having a shader able to call for ray intersection tests, and then having a conditional intersection result pass information back into (or call) a shader.

Doing this with a separate chip wouldn't be impossible, but it would involve a lot of engineering work, increase costs, use additional power, and probably degrade performance. A tightly integrated solution passing information around on the same chip would seem preferable. Much better if you can stick with one provider too (e.g. AMD) to minimise hurdles with the engineering and fabrication efforts.

 

[SuperLupeRap]

Welp it seems like it was all true after all.

Redirect Notice

Looks like the Sony camp went totally apesh!t in this thread for nothing lol.

 

[ShadowWolf712]

Welp it seems like it was all true after all.

Redirect Notice

Looks like the Sony camp went totally apesh!t in this thread for nothing lol.

Hardly. 12 was double the One X, which is what MS said this would be. It doesn't exactly confirm the specs on another system.

 

[HolyTruth]

Df is back on track to push for microsoft.
Their last 4 videos and the last one with the ssd was all aboit microsoft.
This one is all about microsoft.

I like their comparison videos but i hate their specualtions.
Though i appreciate their efforts and it educates us about all the new tech i dont need them to make a video about every single rumor where is see a middle aged man looking marionette puppet flapping his hands vigorously repeating the word Unprecedented a 100 times.

Funny to see this in retrospect. Just shows how fucking BOSS DF is.

EVERYTHING they said was RIGHT. Wow.

 

[Kenpachii]

Welp it seems like it was all true after all.

Redirect Notice

Looks like the Sony camp went totally apesh!t in this thread for nothing lol.

Now i start to wonder if microsoft is straight up lying or more likely bending words.

Next Generation Custom Processor: Xbox Series X is our most powerful console ever powered by our custom designed processor leveraging AMD’s latest Zen 2 and RDNA 2 architectures. Delivering four times the processing power of an Xbox One and enabling developers to leverage 12 TFLOPS of GPU (Graphics Processing Unit) performance – twice that of an Xbox One X and more than eight times the original Xbox One

xbox one = 1.3 tflops that's 10,4 tflops
xbox one s = 1,4 tflops that's 11.2 tflops
xbox one x = 6 tflops that's 12 tflops.

But all are based around old architecture. This means 12 tflops of rdna 2 is faster then 12 tflops on the old solution.

I wonder if that thing actually is 12 tflops of rdna2 or just performing as traditional 12 tflops but on lower tflops rdna2 because otherwise that box would be a lot more faster then 8 times the performance.

Something isn't right.

 

[Arun1910]

As someone who has a decked out PC... do people really care so much about power of consoles over the games provided?

9TF vs 12TF is a bit shit on Sony's part, but in my eye they have better exclusives and their 1st party studios utilize the power better.

E.G Uncharted 4 on a Pro vs Gears 5 on an Xbox One X. On Paper Gears 5 should have looked better but it... doesn't. I can't think of many Xbox One X exclusives that look better vs a PS4 exclusive minus Forza.

 

[policestationx]

DF is a top tier.

 

[HolyTruth]

Now i start to wonder if microsoft is straight up lying or more likely bending words.



xbox one = 1.3 tflops that's 10,4 tflops
xbox one s = 1,4 tflops that's 11.2 tflops
xbox one x = 6 tflops that's 12 tflops.

But all are based around old architecture. This means 12 tflops of rdna 2 is faster then 12 tflops on the old solution.

I wonder if that thing actually is 12 tflops of rdna2 or just performing as traditional 12 tflops but on lower tflops rdna2 because otherwise that box would be a lot more faster then 8 times the performance.

Something isn't right.

lol stop making shit up.

on paper the GPU has 12 TFLOPS. That’s it. It 100% has 12TFLOPS. Raw, actual DATA. It’s a FACT.

Of course those 12 TFLOPS - in reality - mean much more than the 6 TFLOPS because it’s completely new and way more efficient architecture. But how do you measure that? You can’t.
You can’t give a precise number. Of course it’s „theoretically“ 15 TFLOPS, But looking at the raw number and facts it’s 12 TFLOPS.

 

[SleepDoctor]

Now i start to wonder if microsoft is straight up lying or more likely bending words.



xbox one = 1.3 tflops that's 10,4 tflops
xbox one s = 1,4 tflops that's 11.2 tflops
xbox one x = 6 tflops that's 12 tflops.

But all are based around old architecture. This means 12 tflops of rdna 2 is faster then 12 tflops on the old solution.

I wonder if that thing actually is 12 tflops of rdna2 or just performing as traditional 12 tflops but on lower tflops rdna2 because otherwise that box would be a lot more faster then 8 times the performance.

Something isn't right.

Lolwut

 

[Gavin Stevens]

As someone who has a decked out PC... do people really care so much about power of consoles over the games provided?

9TF vs 12TF is a bit shit on Sony's part, but in my eye they have better exclusives and their 1st party studios utilize the power better.

E.G Uncharted 4 on a Pro vs Gears 5 on an Xbox One X. On Paper Gears 5 should have looked better but it... doesn't. I can't think of many Xbox One X exclusives that look better vs a PS4 exclusive minus Forza.

Pro and X are still anchored by the base consoles, they can’t perform miracles. The PS4 is some 40% faster than the one.

The x is faster than the pro by a large margin, but that speed is only ever reallly used to push raw pixel data (resolution) higher. they can’t straight up Male gears 5 look like uncharted 4 just because it’s more powerful, because it has to work somewhat on the base consoles still.

 

[ZywyPL]

E.G Uncharted 4 on a Pro vs Gears 5 on an Xbox One X. On Paper Gears 5 should have looked better but it... doesn't. I can't think of many Xbox One X exclusives that look better vs a PS4 exclusive minus Forza.

Key word here - exclusives. Because looking at all of the games out there, it's crystal clear that every game looks and most importantly - performs better on X1X, showing the extra power is indeed a great welcome, just the amount of games running in 4K vs FHD/QHD is outstanding. And even the recently published survey clearly shows that better graphics is the most wanted feature of next-gen consoles.

But speaking of exclusives, how many big AAA exclusives Xbox actually received since X1X was released? FM7 and FH4? OK, granted, they do look and perform phenomenal. The mentioned Gears 5? Which you have to say, 4K60 AAA game on current-gen hardware is quite an accomplishment, the game obviously opts for performance rather than visuals (while still looking quite comparable), as oppose to UC4 30FPS at (not even CBR but upscalled) 1440p,

So with both next-gen consoles being easily able to hit 4K60, every additional power advantage will be able to be put nowhere else but into better visuals, the tricky question tho is A) what will the power difference will be (if any), and B) with all the new fancy technologies like VRS, CBR, AI-upscalled image and so, will we, the end users, be even able to notice those differences? Even DF has switched to not even 300% zoom in their tech vids anymore to 400% because of how hard it is to spot the differences, or just count the pixels/native resolution of modern day games, so let alone can the consumers with their naked eyes.

As for the PS5, I believe the difference will be second to none, the PS4 and XB1 were already nearly identical, the APU's were almost exactly the same size, with the same Jaguar cores, with the same GCN CUs, and the only real difference was that MS cut out some of the CUs to put ESRAM instead, and RAM was DDR3 instead of GDDR5, that's literally all the differences between the two base consoles, but MS already learned their mistakes with X1X, Sony also saw it didn't work well, so IMO it's really safe to bet that both next-gen consoles won't try to invent the wheel this time around and will be as safe and simple as possible.

So again, given both next-gen consoles are once again based on the same AMD tech/solutions, and looking at how XB1 and PS4 were already nearly identical, I don't believe we will see any substantial differences between the two next-gen systems.

The current narrative suggests that the rumored 9TF is actually true, but for the PS5 that was planned as a 2019 release, it even makes sense reading about all the co-development being done between Sony and AMD on Navi GPU (RDNA1), which is indeed either 36CU or 40CU (so possibly 4 disabled), and it does indeed hover around 9TF. If all of this is true, and if yes, what was Sony's motivation to postpone the PS5, nobody knows, and we will most likely never get to know the truth, but I am personally keen to believe that narration.

 

[Mattyp]

Now i start to wonder if microsoft is straight up lying or more likely bending words.



xbox one = 1.3 tflops that's 10,4 tflops
xbox one s = 1,4 tflops that's 11.2 tflops
xbox one x = 6 tflops that's 12 tflops.

But all are based around old architecture. This means 12 tflops of rdna 2 is faster then 12 tflops on the old solution.

I wonder if that thing actually is 12 tflops of rdna2 or just performing as traditional 12 tflops but on lower tflops rdna2 because otherwise that box would be a lot more faster then 8 times the performance.

Something isn't right.

Your measurement of flops isn't right

Car A has 600Hp
Car B has 600Hp

Car A is 10 years newer, so puts down the power and runs a 10 second quicker lap time. That doesn't mean there's any other way of measuring hp tflops.

 

[SleepDoctor]

Your measurement of flops isn't right

Car A has 600Hp
Car B has 600Hp

Car A is 10 years newer, so puts down the power and runs a 10 second quicker lap time. That doesn't mean there's any other way of measuring hp tflops.

I think he's measuring fflops instead. (Fanboy flops)

 

[Kdad]

there is no indication. neither the rumours nor supposed leaks point to that. meanwhile, even Microsoft's naming scheme points heavily to a multi SKU approach.

Sony could do that aswell, but my guess is they are going for a mid gen refresh again.

Rumour intensifies