Feel Like I'm On 42
Member
You're starting to come across as fanboyinh for the Pro now ...it absolutely does have major iq issues using pssr and rt reflections
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[Digital Foundry] Silent Hill 2 Remake on PS5 Pro: A Mixed Bag of an Update... And PSSR Has Issues
Gaiff
SBI’s Resident Gaslighter
Starting? Lol
Fortuneelsewhere
Member
That is copium my friend. From what we are seeing PSSR doesn’t work well upscaling from lower resolutions.. even with higher resolutions It have some problems especially when you mix RT in the bag…
At lower resolutions (sub 1080p) is atrocious the amount of flickering and instability PSSR have in most games..
I have no doubts it will get better and eventually PSSR will be a great asset for Sony and gamers.. but I really don’t expect it to happen before PS6.. until then it will improve but is gonna be a gradual process..
Feel Like I'm On 42
Member
No I've noticed this for weeks now but he's a respectable guy so didn't want to be too harsh but yeah ..gotta be honest he's gone full fanboy
Gaiff
SBI’s Resident Gaslighter
What do you mean "gone"? He’s always been one.
Skitso
Member
There's nothing wrong being a fanboy. I love my Playstation, but when I have a passion towards something, I tend to become really picky about it's flaws. Like now with PS5 Pro and PSSR - the current situation is infuriating for me! But being so in love with something it narrows your perception and clouds you judgement... that is the thing to avoid in every part of life.
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rofif
Can’t Git Gud
The whole point of a console is that devs can utilise it beyond simple settings toggles and code to the metal.
These devs are clearly not doing that and just using it as a small pc.
Feel Like I'm On 42
Member
See but the way you are is the opposite of being a fanboy...we need more people like you in the console space ...the most passionate gamers are the most critical and ironically fanboys label us as fanboys because they think we're agents of "the other team". Can't wrap their minds around criticism, it would be funny if it wasn't so pathetic. Grown men with the mentality of 12 year olds. If I had a dime for every time I've seen that backwards line of thinking here on Gaf in response to criticism I'd be a wealthy man.
"Oh I see you must not have a PROOO" and "FOUND THE XBOT" lol
TrebleShot
Member
Just to give some perspective on this.
The game is incredibly heavy on PC and top end systems struggle unless you go to Balanced or Perf mode DLSS. In which case I imagine the pro is on ultra performance or something like that within PSSR and therefore it's a much lower base res.
PSSR isn't the problem we have plenty of examples where it looks incredible like Motorfest, Callisto Protocol, TLOU, R&C , SM1 MM 2.
The game is incredibly heavy on PC and top end systems struggle unless you go to Balanced or Perf mode DLSS. In which case I imagine the pro is on ultra performance or something like that within PSSR and therefore it's a much lower base res.
PSSR isn't the problem we have plenty of examples where it looks incredible like Motorfest, Callisto Protocol, TLOU, R&C , SM1 MM 2.
Gaiff
SBI’s Resident Gaslighter
It might be the problem at lower resolutions. It seems not to play nice with ray tracing at times as well, having stability issues in GT7’s RT mode.
TrebleShot
Member
Yeah doesn't seem to play well with RT at the moment but then again CP looks great so I'm not sure what's going on there and First Descendant is UE5 and looks good in thr RT mode.
This isn't true. There were similar minor issues on DLSS with SH2 but they just don't get highlighted that much and get fixed down the line anyway.
Gaiff
SBI’s Resident Gaslighter
You call those minor issues?
Yes, but more highlighting the fact that I've seen the same artifacts and poor game releases on DLSS. Developers just assume shit would work fine with these upscalers (which is a moving target) and tend to just fix them later.
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Gaiff
SBI’s Resident Gaslighter
Those SH2 issues are not minor. The problem in the post you linked is frame generation, not DLSS upscaling.
DLSS 3 is framegen. There are similar artifacts without framegen too. I'm only disputing
"results from that upscaler is extremely easy to do, even for really bad developers"
That simply is not true.
Gaiff
SBI’s Resident Gaslighter
We’re talking about upscaling, not frame generation. The post clearly mentions that the issues occur when toggling frame generation on.
Except your post doesn’t disprove that at all. It’s disingenuous at best. Not only are you not showing any images/videos of the issue, but you’re using a post that highlights a problem with frame generation, not upscaling, which is what we’re talking about.
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HeWhoWalks
Gold Member
Those Silent Hill 2 issues are moderate, but it's more on the dev here (which is generally the case all around, as I've said). The tools to play with are there, but if you aren't up to snuff, then don't implement those tools until you are.
This SH2 update simply needed more time to cook. I get wanting to push things out as the pressure on such a game mounts, but if it can't be done properly, use other tools. Eliminate PSSR altogether and enhance the image in other ways, such as increased resolution, better textures, etc. The Pro has the chops to do that.
This SH2 update simply needed more time to cook. I get wanting to push things out as the pressure on such a game mounts, but if it can't be done properly, use other tools. Eliminate PSSR altogether and enhance the image in other ways, such as increased resolution, better textures, etc. The Pro has the chops to do that.
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Zathalus
Member
Yes, DLSS has subpar implementations as well, but I can't recall anything to the extent we have seen with Silent Hill 2 or Jedi Survivor since 2.0 released. Even GT7 PSSR+RT combo has image quality issues that I have never really seen with any sort of DLSS implementation. It's pretty clear the technology has issues with lower resolutions and certain RT effects.
Glad I'm not the only one who thinks this.
Started playing yesterday, and I was just underwhelmed.
I know it's using ue5 with all the fancy new features, but I just don't like the look. Other than that I'm enjoying the game itself though
HeWhoWalks
Gold Member
What's wrong with the look?
Fortuneelsewhere
Member
I have a feeling CP is not using PSSR..
James Sawyer Ford
Gold Member
Just like you and the rest of your crew that likes your posts, doesn’t play Pro, and constantly hangs out in Pro threads for some strange reason
Gaiff
SBI’s Resident Gaslighter
I’ve had a Pro since day 1 lmao.
You’re probably too blinded by fanboyism to see this, but I’ve had an interest in the Pro for a very long time and always made it clear I’d buy it.
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rofif
Can’t Git Gud
But it does quite ok with rebirth that’s maybe 1080p base.
Sub 1080 is not good for any upscaler
I'm not really sure mate, I just feel underwhelmed. I expected more.
It doesn't look very sharp, anything that has a reflective surface I notice the image breaks up. There's loads of puddles with reflections everywhere and they look really poor.
I've tried out loads of horror games on my pro since I've got it, and they all look superior to my eye.
I'm just a bit disappointed I expected more from the hype
I'm not sure why you're really pushing the idea that frame generation isn't part of "DLSS" or that these artifacts in games don't exist outside of framegen. SH2 had them without it. As does Jedi Survivor still.
So because I didn't post a picture it's falsified? Is that what you're honestly going with being "disingenuous"? I'm simply saying that developers release games with these artifacts and because these upscalers are separate moving targets (sometimes they update the DLSS, PSSR version without testing for these artifacts) they end up with these unforseen things and fix them after the fact.
I think possible lower res/framerate effects exasperate certain issues. One good example is the pulsating bushes in Jedi Survivor which are still also present in DLSS but less noticeable due to higher framerate and res. DLSS also has other false positive artifacts where to negate these temporal issues it simply doesn't show you movement that are actually meant to be in the game.
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HeWhoWalks
Gold Member
I see, so you're talking about the Pro version (which, at least in Quality Mode, is quite sharp). I thought you meant all around, because on PC, we eatin' good...
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Bojji
Member
HUD artifacts with frame gen on are from fucked up implementations of DLSS FG and FSR FG. Games with good frame gen implementations don't have issues like that.
Stop talking bullshit, artifacts with frame gen have nothing to do with DLSS image reconstruction - there are no HUD problems with it.
PSSR has clear problems in this game and other games with RT lighting.
Hardware lumen?
Still looks like software to me:
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Loboxxx
Member
It's becoming clear that PSSR, at least in its first version, won't be the magic formula we thought it would be in terms of performance. It doesn't take an HD-ready game and display it in 4K. Its sweet spot seems to be upscaling a game with a resolution around 1440p to a very high-quality 4K.
From this starting point, the developer's skill comes into play, as they'll need to aim to keep the resolution close to 1440p while maintaining 60fps. On the other hand, Sony will have to keep training its machine learning and refining PSSR.
Honestly, despite this somewhat uneven start, I believe that in a few months, PSSR will bring plenty of joy to PS5 Pro owners.
From this starting point, the developer's skill comes into play, as they'll need to aim to keep the resolution close to 1440p while maintaining 60fps. On the other hand, Sony will have to keep training its machine learning and refining PSSR.
Honestly, despite this somewhat uneven start, I believe that in a few months, PSSR will bring plenty of joy to PS5 Pro owners.
Gaiff
SBI’s Resident Gaslighter
DLSS upscaling and frame generation are two separate things. Don't lump them together. This thread is about DLSS upscaling, not DLSS frame generation. They can be used independently. Quit being dishonest.
This is what the thread says:
So why are you trying to frame this as a DLSS upscaling problem when it's a frame generation problem? Not to mention, you didn't even provide footage to show the extent of the problems.
We've never seen problems this bad with DLSS 2. Either show us or you're simply trying to lie and go "bu bu but DLSS too!" Is DLSS perfect? No. It has its issues, but there is no case where it's this bad with shimmering galore and huge stability problems.
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Yeah those shots do look really good.I see, so you're talking about the Pro version (which, at least in Quality Mode, is quite sharp). I thought you meant all around, because on PC, we eatin' good...
Another thing I've noticed is when you're in a room in town and it's dark, sometimes when the natural light leaks in through gaps and cracks, you see these weird sparkles when you pan the camera. It's really distracting, I don't know if it's a bug or something
Fortuneelsewhere
Member
That is true even though it doesn’t have RT.
Sub 1080 is not optimal for sure but on PSSR is proving to be a disaster specially coupled with RT.
TrebleShot
Member
You need DLSS on PC to run it at PC style frames and there's alot of problems with it like ghosting and artefacting. His hair is awful without mods.
Yes, but guess what genius, we're talking about devs still "fucking up implementations" with DLSS. Nobody is talking bullshit.
I was talking DLSS in general
You've never seen bad artifacts in a release before, really?
As I said hardware that pushes higher res or framerates tend to hide some artifacts that are still present in DLSS and DLSS also does false positives to remove some temporal issues by hiding some movement that's meant to be in the game. I gave you examples of Jedi survivor too. I'm only talking about devs simply enabling the latest versions of DLSS/PSSR and not necessarily checking how that interacts with their game in all scenes.
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HeWhoWalks
Gold Member
Eh, depends on the mod. This is the only one that doesn't truly ruin the original look (which is, admittedly, too shiny, particularly in dark scenes).
The area after Brookhaven hospital was stunning to the point I thought it was patched recently.
Bojji
Member
SH2 has bad frame gen support, they added in the patch but it's basic as fuck - standard UE5 "turn on" in ini - it's no different than frame gen mods we had since day 1. Frame gen needs some work from developers for hud to looks correctly.
Both SH2 and Avatar used DLSS preset that caused ghosting, you could change that from day 1 using DLSS configuration tools and in the case of SH2 devs fixed that in the patch.
DLSS never had issues on par with PSSR since version 2.0 (2020), you are talking from your ass here. Ghosting and other stuff was from developers using wrong DLSS presets.
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Wow, it's almost like that's what I said. Glad you agree.
Gaiff
SBI’s Resident Gaslighter
What the hell do you mean by "DLSS in general"? Upscaling and frame generation are two completely separate things. This thread is about upscaling, and you bring up frame generation, which has nothing to do with it.
I literally said DLSS isn't perfect but that we've never seen an implementation as bad as with SH2. Frontiers of Pandora had ghosting problems (as did a few other games), but this is in no way remotely close to the entire image being destroyed like in SH2.
Your initial post says this:
And it's simply not true. They aren't "similar minor" issues because these issues aren't minor. They're rather egregious.
So your argument has again boiled down to which you think is minor or not minor? What if I think ghosting is not minor? What if I think both are in fact minor?
"Framegen" is part of DLSS 3 and there were bad implementations of it with devs using bad presets and not testing all the scenes in the game. Those artifacts are not limited to framgen either. The DLSS ghosting was a tradeoff of temporal stability to prevent flickering.
You took a simple statement saying that developers release with bad implementations of DLSS that don't work well in all scenes and patch them later down the line to arguing about what you consider minor or major artifacts in a game again.
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Team Andromeda
Member
Enjoying the new patch. Game looks fab and is so amazing to play too
Gaiff
SBI’s Resident Gaslighter
Nah, I called you out on your bullshit trying to pass off frame generation issues as upscaling issues and trying to claim the SH2 are minor and that DLSS was ever as bad outside of 1.0.
HeWhoWalks
Gold Member
In fairness, PSSR is also in 1.0. As is always the case, the opening of a new feature has kinks to work out.
As far as currently? DLSS is in much better shape than PSSR with this game. I advise people to (if they can) stick to the base PS5 version until Bloober can get things up to snuff! Otherwise, Pro Performance is at least a little bit better at handling the image "crawlies" (as I call them).
As far as currently? DLSS is in much better shape than PSSR with this game. I advise people to (if they can) stick to the base PS5 version until Bloober can get things up to snuff! Otherwise, Pro Performance is at least a little bit better at handling the image "crawlies" (as I call them).
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Bojji
Member
If you don't like dlss preset or version used by developers you can always change it yourself (it's easy as fuck). No option like that on consoles.
Preset c vs d vs e
1.0 worked completely different, it's not similar to 2.0 at all.
DLSS 2.0, XeSS and PSSR are very similar in how they operate and currently PSSR have the most issues.
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HeWhoWalks
Gold Member
Yes, but I didn't say DLSS 1.0 and 2.0 were similar. I said the 1.0 of any new feature has kinks to work out.
If PSSR is working similar to DLSS 2.0, I'd say it's on the right track. DLSS 1.0 was trash!
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Gaiff
SBI’s Resident Gaslighter
Which is perfectly fine and we all kinda knew there would be some problems one way or another. DLSS itself still isn't perfect, neither is XeSS. Those solutions still need years of development to get rid of most issues that will truly make them undoubtedly superior to native. As it stands, most still have problems that don't 100% make them the preferred alternative. Better overall in some cases? Sure, but I want to see them completely supplant native resolution and make it obsolete...which I guess isn't all that great because they'll effectively become the baseline.
Bojji
Member
PSSR clearly needed more testing with different RT solutions.
Obviously it will improve but right now some developers removed it or didn't implement it in the first place.
I just posted the ghosting issue that isn't a framegen issue at all since it has been present in games from 2 onwards though where framegen wasn't even a thing. You're just arguing in whatever way you can. Nobody was even concentrating on the subjective 'scale' of the issue. We went over that already remember and I tried to clarify that I'm talking about the same artifacts at lower res and bad game releases that get fixed later:
I provided you the pictures you were asking for too. The ones which are not framegen and you were claiming don't exist because I didn't post pictures. Now you're back to "but are those major or minor" again.
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