ProtoByte
Weeb Underling
Tbf, the latter is more effecting. Both in terms of the conversation, and the personal impacts on everyone involved.
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Druckmann / Naughty Dog Derangement Syndrome - Colin Moriarty Commentary
- Thread starter James Sawyer Ford
- Start date
TexMex
Member
The OP doesn't say that Colin claimed "no one is allowed to dislike the game" either. You didn't listen to the audio, I'm not even sure you read the OP, but hell or high water, you've got to have an opinion on it.
She's not those things based on what we saw in the trailer.
And seriously dude, remove Neil's cock from your mouth and quit trying to accuse me of not liking her because she's a woman. It's as boring as she is.
Topher
Identifies as young
The problem is that it was way too easy to review bomb the game due to the leaks back then. Metacritic literally changed their rules on user reviews because of that game. Now folks can throw that user score out like means something if they want, but it really doesn't.
That doesn't mean the people who didn't like the game didn't have real gripes. The game is just very polarizing and I think that largely comes down to what happened to Joel.
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NuclearDiarrhea
Member
I think James Sawyer Ford has finally gone to sleep now so we can all shit on Neil Druckmann in peace.
StreetsofBeige
Gold Member
I thought ND, Druckmann, actress would be giving gamers open season to rag on Intergalactic till their next big preview video which will be sometime in 2025.
But just a week and a half since the show, they are still chiming in tweets or instagram posts. And even those are getting laughed at.
If you noticed, aside from the handful of starting Intergalactic threads, it started to die down a touch. But then more threads pop up as they keep egging it on.
Tip for them: I know you hate everyone is laughing, making memes and the trailers got bombed in dislikes. But just relax. It's Xmas. The more impulse tweets done, the more gamers pile on. Just work on a kick ass trailer and PS Blog info post in 2025 that counters that trailer. Thats all you need to do.
But just a week and a half since the show, they are still chiming in tweets or instagram posts. And even those are getting laughed at.
If you noticed, aside from the handful of starting Intergalactic threads, it started to die down a touch. But then more threads pop up as they keep egging it on.
Tip for them: I know you hate everyone is laughing, making memes and the trailers got bombed in dislikes. But just relax. It's Xmas. The more impulse tweets done, the more gamers pile on. Just work on a kick ass trailer and PS Blog info post in 2025 that counters that trailer. Thats all you need to do.
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Fess
Member
No analysis or defense speech is needed, the tide is turning and everybody should know by now that anything that can be seen as ”woke” ain’t going to get a good first impression, happens to any developer big or small no matter what they’ve done in the past.
But just make a character editor and the game is fully saved. And no preaching in the story.
But just make a character editor and the game is fully saved. And no preaching in the story.
Bumblebeetuna
Member
Oh, so now he has an issue with the dumb mob now that they are coming after his precious Naughty Dog. On brand I guess. On brand for OP obviously, as well.
Topher
Identifies as young
I remember when folks used to make fun of SJW types (the woke before we called it woke) who would get upset that the characters in movies/games didn't conform to their requirements. Found this video in an old thread...
Punished Miku
Human Rights Subscription Service
Read my mind. Dude is the most relentlessly negative guy on the forum when he picks a target. Little self reflection couldn't hurt because he is frequently playing the opposite role.
Pegasus Actual
Member
"Druckmann and ND are credited with an absolutely stellar track record and have not missed, yet segments of the community seem intent on lighting them on fire across the internet."
And after skimming the slow-witted fanboy podcast (I mean they do go on somehow for like an hour about this bullshit) that seems to be the gist of it. Naughty Dog made the bestest games and don't you dare criticize them. He even threw in a "I KNOW DRUCKMAN HE MY FRIEND" and some weird bullshit about Last of Us 2 being spoiled made him more mad than anything else in his entire life (lol).
And what's with the idiot in the Halo underpants who was all "Wow the 'audio waves' on a sword are so cool I can't believe I've never seen that before". Haha, what a twat.
TexMex
Member
Yikes, you really should have quit while you were ahead, my mistake.
Pegasus Actual
Member
Yikes guys, yikes!
Cakeboxer
Member
Sony will market this thing with full force, of course it will sell well. I wish Sony would give Druckmann just 50 million Dollar for his next game and almost no marketing. Would love to see him suddenly having to care about what the audience wants and not what he wants.
Hypereides
Member
I fully expect that happen. The man already has got some product placement going. I'd bet we'll see some cross-promo incoming with Adidas, Porsche and Trent Reznor. It seems like he's trying to ensure everything about the game will be a hit regardless of its contents.
LimanimaPT
Member
No, but a female/male half asian half black main character named Jordan is.
DenchDeckard
Moderated wildly
It's exactly what happened to avowed. Many more games will suffer the same fate over the next few releases. Months and years.
Last of us 2 was a big title that would be considered dei now but it was kind of in the midst or landed at a time that the wider gaming audience wasn't as intent on dragging everything down, like it is at this.moment.
It's got so bad that just having a shaved headed female is enough to trigger the mob. Or even having a pronouns selector in your character creator. Balders gate 3 managed to dodge it but would they this year?
I fully agree with your op points and Colin though. Yes ND have pushed a lot of DEI stuff in their last game but the quality is never in question and the budget/quality reflects that.
I M hoping this game is a return to a more fun less political title like uncharted but with a shaved headed female as the protag. I'm OK with that. Will just have to wait and see.
Hypereides
Member
Every action has a reaction. In all fairness, I think what we're seeing now is a wave that's counterbalancing what came prior. I hope we'll reach a point where things will find a calm and stable middle ground without swinging to extremes in either direction.
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Astray
Member
Yep. The rage bait would have happened anyways because there are content creators that make a living on them now.
EDMIX
Writes a lot, says very little
lol i always think about those times and find it funny as shit how roles have been replaced.
From make your own game ,to OMG why are you making your own game? lol
I remember reading a lot of those points and even agree with a great majority of them.
Stop asking folks to change their games based on your views, make your own.
Don't like it? Don't play it, tons of games about females that exist that one could play
and lastly, developer are free to make what they want even if some conspiracy about Nathan Drake's undershirt being tucked in is correct lol
Didn't think years later, I'd be saying the same fucking thing to the opposing side lol Its so fucking funny, that it seems many don't even see they are now making those same wild claims and supporting those same views, merely from another perspective.
Truth. We've seen so many different side from this, that if it wasn't about the hair, it would just be about something else anyway, this conversation as rarely just ben exclusively about hair for anyone even believe them lol Anyone in that circus by default is to be ignored regardless of side, each seem to have some wild shit they want to believe with zero evidence and wild absolutes.
DenchDeckard
true, but they'll make those claims about literally every game releasing in 2025. Monster Hunter of all games is being attacked lol At this rate, what major game coming out in 2025 doesn't already have some clam by this group of being woke?
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LimanimaPT
Member
The big difference is that when you have an anime character you're not trying to force some ideology but when you design a character like that, you are.
This would be perfectly fine for me if this wasn't happening in every single tv show or movie for the last 5 years, and this has now come to games.
The strong ugly female DEI character has got old and we are sick of it.
In the case of ND the protest gets stronger because we know they deliver the best games.
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I fully agree that people should be able to make the game they want and people can buy it or not. The biggest reason that I opposed the SJWs of the 2010s is because many of them sort of wanted a leftwing version of the Hayes code for all types of entertainment while I am a full supporrter of free expression. This goes to show that most culture warriors from both sides just want people to conform to their view instead of being free to do their thing,
cormack12
Gold Member
When you put yourself on a pedestal as a pseudo-intellectual and deflect any and all criticism the way he does (and Rhian Johnson et al) then you reap what you sow. The level of pushback against Neil is relevant to his level of antagonism. And his refusal to reflect inwards because of his perceived notion that he is owning 'gamers'. Guess what? Not everyone who thought that TLoU2 had a 'mid' narrative and didn't pull off the dual protagonist bit was an alt right incel.
And if you don't think that Neil is about the culture war, how fast did he go into damage control mode on his Israel comments, when the terminally online mob accused him of wrong think and how he made the Seraphites an analogy for Palestinians? Did he call them out? Did he call them far left incels? No, he sheepishly made a donation to both Israeli and Palestinian response services and then diplomatically shared it on his twitter to appease the mob.
Ironically the more mature yet polarised part of the fanbase had no issue with the allegorical nature of the game because it was never about politics. It was about the narrative (and Abbies ridiculous arms). Just like they had no issue with Witcher 3 being inspired by the Polish politics of division of culture not skin colour.
And if you don't think that Neil is about the culture war, how fast did he go into damage control mode on his Israel comments, when the terminally online mob accused him of wrong think and how he made the Seraphites an analogy for Palestinians? Did he call them out? Did he call them far left incels? No, he sheepishly made a donation to both Israeli and Palestinian response services and then diplomatically shared it on his twitter to appease the mob.
Ironically the more mature yet polarised part of the fanbase had no issue with the allegorical nature of the game because it was never about politics. It was about the narrative (and Abbies ridiculous arms). Just like they had no issue with Witcher 3 being inspired by the Polish politics of division of culture not skin colour.
EDMIX
Writes a lot, says very little
Thats actually a great comparison. Thats how I saw a lot of that. Its not even saying personally I disagree with the view of lack of representation, I don't even disagree with their view that some in the industry are against them or something, merely one can't control this and what does that have to do with all the other developers just making the games they wish to create?
Its not saying I disagree with saving the trees or feeding the poor or something, but those moral views should also not be placed in games BY FORCE or something, its easier to just make your own game. The motto was easy, no one can speak for us, but us, it makes more sense to just make your work like other mediums.
The culture wars aka the circus has basically boiled down to 2 sides trying to force developers to support their view or be attacked, doxxed etc lol
This is the thing, Uncharted 4 was both Bruce and Druckmann. Both critically acclaimed and sold millions. Yet people go after Druckmann with the derangement. Not simply liking a game based on personal taste is fine. We don't even know what this game is though. It's nonsense mostly.
As if Colin is the one who should be "listening to gamers " instead of talking opinions on his talk show. Pretending this is some official "PR piece"? Hey, maybe he is right after all then.
Aces High
Member
No.
One side forces developers to support their view. We all remember the Kim Belair statements, right?
The other side makes fun of questionable design decisions and simply doesn't buy these games.
I mean wtf is wrong with these devs? Do they really think we're obligated to buy their shit? Like that Dragon Age guy. Do whatever you want but don't cry if you don't make money. This industry is run by clowns.
Aces High
Member
He's doing rhetorical manipulation. So he's either stupid or it's paid PR.
EDMIX
Writes a lot, says very little
Pretty sure no one is "forces" Neil Druckmann to do anything in his work.
nah, thats both sides as some of those Youtubers that talk about theses topics magically ONLY talk about something regarding some side and when you look at their past videos, it has nothing to do with games, so...sorry man, both sides do this clown shit lol
You call it "rhetorical manipulation" when in reality he answered a question that used that 'rhetoric'. You're reaching with this stuff and only proving their point with this unreasonable behaviour/take.
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Schoolboy Error
Banned
For such a short post, this fucking goes places. All straight men dominate, all women submit? Anything else is letting the gay in? Kudos, that is some weapons grade sexual insecurity on display right there.
kungfuian
Member
This whole 'war' as some like to call it, is just companies doing what they always do, attempting to embrace what they see as a new market by shoehorning in some trend to sell more games. In this case it's clearly forced 'diversity' politics content aimed at checking off boxes to grow their addressable market.
The problem, which many point out, is if handled poorly (overdone in most cases) the existing market will push back and not buy their products because they either a. no longer see themselves reflected in the product, or b. value artistic integrity and are opposed to clearly inauthentic virtue signaling bullshit at the compromise of art and freedom of expression.
The 5% of man hating extreme lefties with 5 genders and the 5% of masagonistic cave men knuckle draggers are just vocal minorities who are as ineffectual as they are mentally ill. They do not speak for the majority. Products aimed at either of these extremes will likely not attract the masses. Hopefully Neil and team are making a game for all of us. Guess well see.
The problem, which many point out, is if handled poorly (overdone in most cases) the existing market will push back and not buy their products because they either a. no longer see themselves reflected in the product, or b. value artistic integrity and are opposed to clearly inauthentic virtue signaling bullshit at the compromise of art and freedom of expression.
The 5% of man hating extreme lefties with 5 genders and the 5% of masagonistic cave men knuckle draggers are just vocal minorities who are as ineffectual as they are mentally ill. They do not speak for the majority. Products aimed at either of these extremes will likely not attract the masses. Hopefully Neil and team are making a game for all of us. Guess well see.
DenchDeckard
Moderated wildly
lol i always think about those times and find it funny as shit how roles have been replaced.
From make your own game ,to OMG why are you making your own game? lol
I remember reading a lot of those points and even agree with a great majority of them.
Stop asking folks to change their games based on your views, make your own.
Don't like it? Don't play it, tons of games about females that exist that one could play
and lastly, developer are free to make what they want even if some conspiracy about Nathan Drake's undershirt being tucked in is correct lol
Didn't think years later, I'd be saying the same fucking thing to the opposing side lol Its so fucking funny, that it seems many don't even see they are now making those same wild claims and supporting those same views, merely from another perspective.
Truth. We've seen so many different side from this, that if it wasn't about the hair, it would just be about something else anyway, this conversation as rarely just ben exclusively about hair for anyone even believe them lol Anyone in that circus by default is to be ignored regardless of side, each seem to have some wild shit they want to believe with zero evidence and wild absolutes.
I am hoping that with comments from people like Colin, who was labelled as "far right" and a misogynist for making a simple joke on one day can hopefully penetrate the hive mind of the mob and we see some balance.
I am not sure if I can articulate this well but I'll try. As a person, I legit have no problem with anyone who is living and going through life and just wants to be happy. I don't force my politics or opinions on sexuality / etc on anyone. If you are trans, straight, gay, identify as what or who ever is completely fine with me. I also want to be "Woke" in what I consider to be "awakened" "awake" to disservice etc in the world. My issue and what I believe is the issue of many is that the middle aged white male has been labelled an enemy for so many years and was the only OK punchline to any joke for the last many years. Naturally there is a push back now where people have had enough. It is ok to be a middle aged white male and be a video game protag if you are that. You arent evil because of the colour of your skin. Similar to the racism that many black people had to deal with for years (AND STILL DO!) people of all colours are labelled (terrorists) etc.
I think I just want characters that make sense. I want creatives to make the game they want. If a writer creates a character, anda backstory and history for that character. I don't think it is right for some outside agency to step in and say "well, why arent they this colour and have this motivation etc" I think that sucks the art and creativity out of the creative.
Can you imagine if someone stepped in and made Stephen King change his characters because of some DEI quota.
I dunno, I'm ranting. I hope my point comes across ok.
Hopefully Colin can spread some sense.
TheGodfather07
Member
While I don't share the same views as druckmann, I respectfully leave it there. How some people genuinely despise and hate the guy as though they know him personally is just weird. It's just fucking videogames people! Relax.
EDMIX
Writes a lot, says very little
No worries I feel everything you said needed to be said to get how you're coming to this conclusion in terms of your views.
I agree with most of what you're saying because a lot of what I see with some of the inclusionary concepts is an idea to treat it more as a culture war idea instead of a real faithful way of expressing a different side of reality. It is possible for someone to express who they are without making a targeted enemy as the main antagonist.
I think it's hard to get around something like this because part of showing their experiences also showing the difficulties they have in society which might include being ridiculed or attacked or something like this as a show of conflict.
I'm OK if multiple sides are shown inside of work because that's how it is in real life, As much as we talk about what we're discussing it's not like when we leave this thread the real world doesn't have people like this, I mean they exist every day, Why would they not in the video game depicting reality?
So I'm OK if it shows some sort of conflict that they might deal with but I believe the trope of it always just being a middle-aged white person should not really always be, Hate could have come from anywhere.
I don't even know if Colin can even alter any of this, folks will just say he is on the payroll, betrayed them, turned "woke" etc.
That is literally what we see happening to CDPR.
Drake
Member
This is an interesting thought experiment and it really got me thinking. Probably a topic for another thread, but I don't think they would get away with it today.
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Dick Jones
Banned
That's a very JRPG trope. The boss fight is tough as fuck and then the fucker is weak as piss when they join your party.
Deft Beck
Member
I'm a regular Sacred Symbols listener, and even I had to turn off the latest episode towards the end. Colin is correct in a sense; people are judging this game before we've seen much about it because of lingering animosity towards the developer and Druckmann. That's not fair. But, as the topic went on, he double and tripled down on the idea that Naughty Dog can do no wrong because their games are critically acclaimed and sell a lot of copies. Success doesn't make anything immune to criticism, as long as the criticism is fair.
I think it was a bad pacing decision to backload all of those questions just so Colin could thumb his nose repeatedly. Colin likes to spend a lot of time and energy defending very mediocre things. He loved Immortals of Avenum and Tales of Kenzaru, despite neither game making much impact at all sales-wise. Sometimes I wonder how much he likes modern games as they are, versus just indulging his compulsion to get Platinum trophies.
Anyway, people are very emotionally charged about Naughty Dog games. They are not to my taste, but I think people should stop short of threatening Neil and the studio just because they didn't like TLOU Part II.
Colin is the last person you should accuse of supporting "woke" games. Whenever Assassin's Creed Shadows is discussed, he points out the bizarre choice to have the game star the historical figure Yasuke.
I think it was a bad pacing decision to backload all of those questions just so Colin could thumb his nose repeatedly. Colin likes to spend a lot of time and energy defending very mediocre things. He loved Immortals of Avenum and Tales of Kenzaru, despite neither game making much impact at all sales-wise. Sometimes I wonder how much he likes modern games as they are, versus just indulging his compulsion to get Platinum trophies.
Anyway, people are very emotionally charged about Naughty Dog games. They are not to my taste, but I think people should stop short of threatening Neil and the studio just because they didn't like TLOU Part II.
Colin is the last person you should accuse of supporting "woke" games. Whenever Assassin's Creed Shadows is discussed, he points out the bizarre choice to have the game star the historical figure Yasuke.
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FalsettoVibe
Member
Feels that way sometimes. Only here it's becoming a natural hivemind vs a manufactured one due to many bans.