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[famousmortimer]

It just bothers me when developers get lazy because the system is easy to develop for. How Battlefield 4 doesn't run at 1080p says more about how DICE is treating ports internally than it does about the PS4. The same can also be said about Need for Speed Rivals not running at 60 FPS.

I don't know if lazy is the right word... i mean these guys are working 18 hours days for half a year. But I get what you're saying. We know that BF4 on the PS4, if developed for it specifically, would be worlds better than what we are going to get. They ported it quickly and got it running decently and then moved onto the more difficult platforms and have spent far more time with those just getting them to where the PS4 got with little effort. It's a bummer for us but makes sense from EA's end.

 

[famousmortimer]

PS4 is capable of some amazing stuff. Two years from now you all will be asking yourselves why the hell wasn't BF4 running at 1080p or why Watch Dogs took such a nose dive in visuals after the initial unveil.

I don't even think it will be two years. I think holiday '14 games are going to make the majority of these launch games look like ps360 upresses.

Because they are.

 

[ICPEE]

There is no chatter of an upclock. It's not impossible that it will happen later but honestly... it doesn't matter as much as you guys think it does. Developers getting access to powerful tools is much more important at this point than just a brute force upgrade like a small upclock. But "developer tools" doesn't allow for internet pissing contests...


The PS4 is the most powerful system this gen. It's also the easiest to develop for. That's it. That's all you need to know. Everything from here on out is about taking advantage of those facts... not doing some small ass upclock to beat MS on a sheet of paper.

Thank you for the comment and much appreciated.

 

[nib95]

There is no chatter of an upclock. It's not impossible that it will happen later but honestly... it doesn't matter as much as you guys think it does. Developers getting access to powerful tools is much more important at this point than just a brute force upgrade like a small upclock. But "developer tools" doesn't allow for internet pissing contests...


The PS4 is the most powerful system this gen. It's also the easiest to develop for. That's it. That's all you need to know. Everything from here on out is about taking advantage of those facts... not doing some small ass upclock to beat MS on a sheet of paper.

I don't want an up-clock because of Microsoft, who cares about that. I want one because I want the console to be as powerful as it possibly can be. I'd also much rather have an upclock on the GPU over the CPU, since the GPU is going to be doing the grunt of the graphics stuff this gen. An upclock on the GPU would be amazing.

 

[Mahonay]

I don't know if lazy is the right word... i mean these guys are working 18 hours days for half a year. But I get what you're saying. We know that BF4 on the PS4, if developed for it specifically, would be worlds better than what we are going to get. They ported it quickly and got it running decently and then moved onto the more difficult platforms and have spent far more time with those just getting them to where the PS4 got with little effort. It's a bummer for us but makes sense from EA's end.

Both PS4 and XB1 ports probably had to be rushed. In a perfect world DICE would have not put any resources into the 360 or PS3 versions, but there still be a sizable amount of sales on those platforms.

As someone getting a PS4 on day one with Battlefield 4, it too bums be out that the PS4 version seems like it will be not nearly as optimized as it could be. The reality is that it just seems like it's going to suffer usual launch game shortcomings.

 

[thuway]

I don't want an up-clock because of Microsoft, who cares about that. I want one because I want the console to be as powerful as it possibly can be. I'd also much rather have an upclock on the GPU over the CPU, since the GPU is going to be doing the grunt of the graphics stuff this gen. An upclock on the GPU would be amazing.

I'll put it this way a 100mhz GPU upclock (and I am dreaming I know) and a 200 mhz CPU upclock would make it very hard for BF4 to not hit 1080p.

 

[SwiftDeath]

Yeah. Cerny's "time to triangle" stuff wasn't marketing bullshit. Well, obviously, because the market had no idea what he was talking about, but you know what I mean. The PS4 is extremely easy to port to. There's many stories floating around of "we decided to mess around with a ps4 dev kit and had the game running in 3 weeks." I believe I read a story (wasn't told first hand... and I'm assuming if I read it that it was posted here as well) about CoD getting ported in a small amount of time and running at like 90 fps... while the xbox one port took longer and was running like shit.

Which is a double edged sword. I think a lot of the multiplats are going to be kinda rough because they ported them over easily and didn't even bother trying to take advantage of the platform. Those teams will spend much more time on the xbox one versions getting them up to the PS4 level.

Once cross gen stuff dies down and developers only have to focus on three versions (adding PC in the mix) you will see the difference much more. And exclusives, of course, will be wildly better.

Yes the double-edged sword aspect worries me a little

If a team has to port to both XB1 and PS4, and an okay PS4 port takes a fourth of their time budget they'll just leave it and spend the rest of the time trying to get the XB1 up to PS4's port level

So gimped by association almost

I guess we'll see though. I suppose if it took longer to port to PS4 that would not guarantee a better port

 

[vpance]

Those teams will spend much more time on the xbox one versions getting them up to the PS4 level.

They'll still have separate teams for the ports, no? Like how it was for PS3 and 360.

But maybe now that the architecture is mostly similar they'll get "lazy"

 

[nib95]

On a side note, good to have you back and posting famousmortimer. Hope everything is better on your end.

 

[Kocolino67]

It just bothers me when developers get lazy because the system is easy to develop for. How Battlefield 4 doesn't run at 1080p says more about how DICE is treating ports internally than it does about the PS4.

hmhm, this makes me think. Why should I bother myself with BF4 when Dice already started to throw almost every year another new BF into the arena and the next one will be definitely more polished than an obvious launch title with current gen roots?

 

[Mahonay]

hmhm, this makes me think. Why should I bother myself with BF4 when Dice already started to throw almost every year another new BF into the arena and the next one will be definitely more polished than an obvious launch title with current gen roots?

It's a launch game.

It's true though, that no, there really isn't a massive difference from BF3 to BF4. BF4 is mostly going to be the game that BF3 should have been (coming from someone that still poured 500 hours into BF3). As a Battlefield fan, that works for me.

 

[nib95]

Dice really need to reconsider this 720p thing. No point busting out all those visual effects when to the layman COD will still look sharper and more detailed due to being 1080p.

 

[jaypah]

I won't say anything about the specifics of the tech demos I can't. However, they focused on things like the way weather and the environment affects a player. There was also one where they focused on the elements of light and dark and fear on a characte. That's it for me.

That's more than enough, wouldn't want you to get in trouble. Sounds interesting though, thanks!

 

[Kadayi]

Beyond exclusives it doesn't really matter whose got more horse power, because ultimately 3rd party games are going to be designed to run across as many platforms as is viable in order to maximize profits.

 

[Amir0x]

The saddest part about this site is that people actually believe the drivel he posts.

this isn't a joke site? The hilariously awful grammer, the completely non-sensical, almost moon landing denial conspiracy theories about the "secret" inside Xbox One, the fucking retarded awful "comic" at the end talking down PS4's GPU when the XBO's GPU is significantly worse?

That site isn't real, someone is trolling the shit out of Xbox fans and having a good time of it too it seems.

 

[famousmortimer]

On a side note, good to have you back and posting famousmortimer. Hope everything is better on your end.

Yeah, I'm alright. Life goes on.


Thanks.


As for the upclock... thuway talks to far more people on the hardware side than I do so I defer to him. But my understanding is that Sony is happy with the box they have, the heat it creates, and the power it consumes. It's happy with those things and it outclasses the xbox one. There is very little reason for them to start pushing into generating more heat, more borked systems, etc just so they can be slightly more powerful... especially when they already are more powerful and it's not even close to being taken advantage of.

 

[gundamkyoukai]

Thanks for the info thuway and famousmortimer it's also good to see you posting back famousmortimer .

 

[Ishan]

this isn't a joke site? The hilariously awful grammer, the completely non-sensical, almost moon landing denial conspiracy theories about the "secret" inside Xbox One, the fucking retarded awful "comic" at the end talking down PS4's GPU when the XBO's GPU is significantly worse?

That site isn't real, someone is trolling the shit out of Xbox fans and having a good time of it too it seems.

yes that would be epic level trolling lol

 

[Kocolino67]

It's a launch game.

It's true though, that no, there really isn't a massive difference from BF3 to BF4. BF4 is mostly going to be the game that BF3 should have been (coming from someone that still poured 500 hours into BF3). As a Battlefield fan, that works for me.

Also a big fan, I play BF since 1942 and the return of the Commander Mode works for me...but I miss the good old more relaxing times. Oops, wrong thread.

 

[RoboPlato]

Once cross gen stuff dies down and developers only have to focus on three versions (adding PC in the mix) you will see the difference much more. And exclusives, of course, will be wildly better.

I've been saying this for a long time. Differences in cross gen games may be minimal but once next gen development kicks into high gear, PS4's advantages will show more.

If we get any news about system power it'll be in regards to the CPU OS reserve being smaller than expected. If the audio chip is decently capable and they have an extra core available on the CPU it would be more advantageous than a small upclock.

Dice really need to reconsider this 720p thing. No point busting out all those visual effects when to the layman COD will still look sharper and more detailed due to being 1080p.

It's not 720p. DICE said that it's above that. Probably 1600x900 or something. Given how much BF4 is doing at launch I'd be fine with that as long as it's a constant 60fps.

 

[ricen-beans]

On a side note, good to have you back and posting famousmortimer. Hope everything is better on your end.

What happened to Mortimer?

 

[velociraptor]

Dice really need to reconsider this 720p thing. No point busting out all those visual effects when to the layman COD will still look sharper and more detailed due to being 1080p.

We don't know what resolution BF4 runs at. Hopefully it is as close as possible to 1080p though. I don't see why it can't actually run at 1080p since my 6950 does it without any difficulties.

 

[Tsundere]

PS4 is capable of some amazing stuff. Two years from now you all will be asking yourselves why the hell wasn't BF4 running at 1080p or why Watch Dogs took such a nose dive in visuals after the initial unveil.

I won't be asking myself that two years down the road because I already know the answer; they aren't trying.

 

[Ishan]

Someone should make a gif of xbone and ps4 fighting with up clocks gpgpu 30fps 60fps 1080p etc as punches thrown lol

 

[famousmortimer]

What happened to Mortimer?

Janice Lesko was my sister in law.


I took a break from the petty arguments of videogames while trying to figure out why life is fucking awful.

 

[RoboPlato]

We don't know what resolution BF4 runs at. Hopefully it is as close as possible to 1080p though. I don't see why it can't actually run at 1080p since my 6950 does it without any difficulties.

BF is something I would be willing to sacrifice effects to hit 1080p. Since there is so much going on at a large scale the exra resolution makes it easier to spot snipers and such.

Janice Lesko was my sister in law.


I took a break from the petty arguments of videogames while trying to figure out why life is fucking awful.

My heart goes out to you and yours. Try to stay strong, keep your head up, and be there for each other.

 

[FeiRR]

I don't want an up-clock because of Microsoft, who cares about that. I want one because I want the console to be as powerful as it possibly can be. I'd also much rather have an upclock on the GPU over the CPU, since the GPU is going to be doing the grunt of the graphics stuff this gen. An upclock on the GPU would be amazing.

We should stay reasonable. I'd like more powerful hardware too, I'd pay an extra 100 for it without hesitation. But many people won't and it's important for Sony to establish a huge user base for PS4. They really need it to succeed.

Upclocking components would also mean shorter life span of the console. I'm not saying it'd break down immediatelly but in 3-4 years time it could make a difference for a statistically significant group of users. But foremost, upclock could mean higher noise level from the fan(s?) I replaced my fat because it was noisy. It still works but I couldn't bear it anymore.

As it was pointed above, dev tools, experience and work of first parties will make a bigger difference than a small upclock. Games can be patched. I watched BF3 go from around 15 FPS in some maps to over 25 in less than half a year. I hope it will be the same this time. Anyway, posts of users like Thuway, Famousmortimer and Verendus give me a lot of joy and fuel my excitement for the nearing generation. Thank you guys for sharing those bits you can. GAF is great.

 

[SEGAvangelist]

Janice Lesko was my sister in law.


I took a break from the petty arguments of videogames while trying to figure out why life is fucking awful.

Sorry to hear this, man. Stay strong.

 

[slider]

Janice Lesko was my sister in law.


I took a break from the petty arguments of videogames while trying to figure out why life is fucking awful.

Geez, what a time to come back into the thread at. My sympathies.

 

[ricen-beans]

Janice Lesko was my sister in law.


I took a break from the petty arguments of videogames while trying to figure out why life is fucking awful.

Sorry Mortimer. For even bringing it up. I had no idea. My condolences.

 

[onQ123]

Janice Lesko was my sister in law.


I took a break from the petty arguments of videogames while trying to figure out why life is fucking awful.

Sorry to hear about that.

 

[famousmortimer]

Didn't mean to derail this whole thread.

It happened. It sucked. Spent some time with my family and now life moves on. And so shall this thread.


In other news clock speeds and stuff! Woo!

 

[velociraptor]

Janice Lesko was my sister in law.


I took a break from the petty arguments of videogames while trying to figure out why life is fucking awful.

I'm very sorry to hear that famousmortimer. My condolences.

 

[SwiftDeath]

Janice Lesko was my sister in law.


I took a break from the petty arguments of videogames while trying to figure out why life is fucking awful.

Condolences Mortimer

 

[ElTorro]

Janice Lesko was my sister in law.

That is horrible. My sympathies.

 

[kasane]

Janice Lesko was my sister in law.


I took a break from the petty arguments of videogames while trying to figure out why life is fucking awful.

Condolences, hope you can get back up quickly!

 

[Mlb_Animator]

Janice Lesko was my sister in law.


I took a break from the petty arguments of videogames while trying to figure out why life is fucking awful.

That really is horrible. My condolences.

 

[Jabba]

Janice Lesko was my sister in law.


I took a break from the petty arguments of videogames while trying to figure out why life is fucking awful.

My Condolences. Sorry for your loss.

 

[frizby]

I've found that life is pretty great but people sometimes suck.

Condolences and best wishes Mort.

 

[Panajev2001a]

My condolences too, pretty speechless really .

 

[Oppo]

Sorry to hear it, famousmortimer.

Back on Ps4,

What do we think Mark Cerny is focusing on next, now that the console is nigh-launch? My first idea is that he would be trying to work out some new libraries or frameworks for making use of some of the APU/HuMA type tricks that were unavailable before. Like, I'm not super hardware savvy, but I do recall several mentions of the use of newly bi-directional data transfer to "enable things previously not possible" or some such phrasing. That got me interested, because much of his x86 talk revolved around a sort of implicit Sony philosophy (previous to this new machine) that it was ok to have somewhat exotic hardware as long as the development scaled throughout the generation, seeing as even very hard software problems like job splitting and SPE usage and refactoring, do eventually get solved, allowing for the sorts of improvements seen in the likes of The Last Of Us, near the end of the gen. The way Cerny put it, was that he seemed to think he had found a way to have his easy-dev cake and eat it too- fast time to triangle as he puts it, but also the headroom to explore some new methods made possible by having stupid fast/large bandwidth to a preposterous block of RAM.

Someone tell me if I'm high or what.

 

[RoboPlato]

Sorry to hear it, famousmortimer.

Back on Ps4,

What do we think Mark Cerny is focusing on next, now that the console is nigh-launch? My first idea is that he would be trying to work out some new libraries or frameworks for making use of some of the APU/HuMA type tricks that were unavailable before. Like, I'm not super hardware savvy, but I do recall several mentions of the use of newly bi-directional data transfer to "enable things previously not possible" or some such phrasing. That got me interested, because much of his x86 talk revolved around a sort of implicit Sony philosophy (previous to this new machine) that it was ok to have somewhat exotic hardware as long as the development scaled throughout the generation, seeing as even very hard software problems like job splitting and SPE usage and refactoring, do eventually get solved, allowing for the sorts of improvements seen in the likes of The Last Of Us, near the end of the gen. The way Cerny put it, was that he seemed to think he had found a way to have his easy-dev cake and eat it too- fast time to triangle as he puts it, but also the headroom to explore some new methods made possible by having stupid fast/late bandwidth to a preposterous block of RAM.

Someone tell me if I'm high or what.

He's probably focusing on Knack right now. After that, who knows? Either another game or he'll be back on the tech assiting rounds like he was in the PS3 days.

 

[Oppo]

He's probably focusing on Knack right now. After that, who knows? Either another game or he'll be back on the tech assiting rounds like he was in the PS3 days.

Knack is essentially a research project for him, though. But good point.

 

[SwiftDeath]

What do we think Mark Cerny is focusing on next, now that the console is nigh-launch? My first idea is that he would be trying to work out some new libraries or frameworks for making use of some of the APU/HuMA type tricks that were unavailable before. Like, I'm not super hardware savvy, but I do recall several mentions of the use of newly bi-directional data transfer to "enable things previously not possible" or some such phrasing. That got me interested, because much of his x86 talk revolved around a sort of implicit Sony philosophy (previous to this new machine) that it was ok to have somewhat exotic hardware as long as the development scaled throughout the generation, seeing as even very hard software problems like job splitting and SPE usage and refactoring, do eventually get solved, allowing for the sorts of improvements seen in the likes of The Last Of Us, near the end of the gen. The way Cerny put it, was that he seemed to think he had found a way to have his easy-dev cake and eat it too- fast time to triangle as he puts it, but also the headroom to explore some new methods made possible by having stupid fast/late bandwidth to a preposterous block of RAM.

Someone tell me if I'm high or what.

I wouldn't be surprised if after launch he spends most of his time with the ICE team trying to improve Sony's SDK

 

[RoboPlato]

Knack is essentially a research project for him, though. But good point.

Yeah, I know that. It seems pretty clear that Knack is mostly Cerny wanting to get SCEJ up to snuff with modern hardware and is pretty low budget.

 

[Skeff]

Sorry to hear it, famousmortimer.

Back on Ps4,

What do we think Mark Cerny is focusing on next, now that the console is nigh-launch? My first idea is that he would be trying to work out some new libraries or frameworks for making use of some of the APU/HuMA type tricks that were unavailable before. Like, I'm not super hardware savvy, but I do recall several mentions of the use of newly bi-directional data transfer to "enable things previously not possible" or some such phrasing. That got me interested, because much of his x86 talk revolved around a sort of implicit Sony philosophy (previous to this new machine) that it was ok to have somewhat exotic hardware as long as the development scaled throughout the generation, seeing as even very hard software problems like job splitting and SPE usage and refactoring, do eventually get solved, allowing for the sorts of improvements seen in the likes of The Last Of Us, near the end of the gen. The way Cerny put it, was that he seemed to think he had found a way to have his easy-dev cake and eat it too- fast time to triangle as he puts it, but also the headroom to explore some new methods made possible by having stupid fast/late bandwidth to a preposterous block of RAM.

Someone tell me if I'm high or what.

It's likely that Knack is being used to test the waters with GPGPU physics, If you look at the trailers and consider every single object in Knacks body is a seperate object and they all interact with each other, the Physics system is likely more complex than any other game we have seen so far. It is likely that this will result in an improvement of the GPGPU Dev tools.

 

[frizby]

He's probably focusing on Knack right now. After that, who knows? Either another game or he'll be back on the tech assiting rounds like he was in the PS3 days.

I saw an interview the other day where he was asked this question directly, and he said he'd be moving on to games rather than hardware/tech if he had the choice.

 

[ElTorro]

What do we think Mark Cerny is focusing on next, now that the console is nigh-launch?

There are a lot of things to do even after launch. Software libraries and framework support will certainly be one of them. The OS and services will continuously evolve, too. On the hardware site, I am sure that they will do extensive postmortems and continue to work on a more efficient manufacturing process and the next hardware revision of the console.

 

[SwiftDeath]

I saw an interview the other day where he was asked this question directly, and he said he'd be moving on to games rather than hardware/tech if he had the choice.

Crash Bandicoot: Revenge of the apples inbound

Spoiler

I would totally buy it

 

[iamvin22]

I wouldn't be surprised if after launch he spends most of his time with the ICE team trying to improve Sony's SDK

bingo!!!