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[OmegaTreeFish]

That's not really a bad thing. It gives AOE spells and weapons with large swing arcs, a reason for existence. Otherwise why have them? Some of those spells/weapons are so good at AOE that they literally turn those fights into 1 button spam. You can one button spam Congregation and Skeletal Lords with Dark Storm.

Right, which is my point. It's a fact that it happens. Whether you like or hate that is what matters. It's a common complaint against it. I don't like it either but other people out there do. This is why this conversation happens so much.

Dark souls one set a design idea in place. Dark souls 2 diverts from this in a large way. You know why else does? Bloodborne. But it has a different name and therefore does not have the same expectations.

Dark souls 2 would prob not have quite the same love / hate effect if it was called something else and was obviously trying something different. But using the dark souls name gives people certain expectations.

 

[Complicated]

2 is my favorite in the series, and I don't even play the PvP that everyone talks about when defending the game. It's so much more consistent than Dark or Demon's Souls. Lazy and unfinished designs killed those games later on for me even if I enjoyed a lot of what they did.

I also never had trouble with the combat in 2 like so many people. Enemies didn't behave identically to Dark Souls enemies, but I adjusted immediately and never had a problem avoiding tracking enemies. I enjoyed them fucking with people's reliance on kiting enemies one at a time. Made for some great fights where using the environment was more important than circle strafing and backstabbing.

Bloodborne isn't even in the conversation for me though. They basically took out the things I enjoy about the games, and put it in a thoroughly uninteresting monotone setting.

 

[TatteredHat]

Poor world cohesion is the biggest offender, and aside from some of the DLC areas I didn't find any of the areas and enemies very appealing either. The change in philosophy when it came to enemy encounters felt unpolished as well.

Hopefully Dark Souls 3 will be up to scratch.

 

[Novocaine]

20 hours and you only got up to No Mans Wharf, are you sure it's the game that is bad and not you?

That was a cheap shot but you kind of deserve it for that inflammatory thread title.

If you're trying to play DS like you played BB you're going to die over and over again.

You have to be more patient and less agressive in Dark Souls. A missed weapon swing or blindly running into an area is way more dangerous than it is in BB.

 

[takriel]

The route to Smelter Demon in SotFS is fucking stupid. They added a whole bunch of these Alonne Knights which is just stupid stupid stupid. God I hate this.

 

[Greddleok]

Alonne knights are chumps. Talk about circle strafing!

 

[OmegaTreeFish]

Alonne knights are chumps. Talk about circle strafing!

I found block then murder worked best on those. Dudes are so easy.

 

[Greddleok]

I farmed the shit out of those on one of my playthroughs to buy all the junk for torphies. They give so many souls and are about as dangerous as a single hollow.

 

[takriel]

Yeah but they totally suck if you want to just speedrun to Smelter.

 

[terrible]

The Iron Keep was the only area in the game I didn't like, though I'm talking about the parts past the Smelter Demon.

 

[Starzonedge]

Eh, all that stuff is great. I am not even that good at Souls, and I'd rather be overwhelmed constantly and having to do my best than having "fair" fights. Sure, sometimes it is a slog, but that is better than the game being "fair". The player just has too many advantages with magic, items, health, better armor, better weapons, ranged weapons, the limited ai of the enemy, etc. The balance has to be on the side of the enemies or it becomes boring.

Bloodborne is good at this at times too, particularly obvs the initial area with all the people hunting in big groups, but bloodborne too many times just prefers to throw enemies who can kill you in one or two of your mistakes. One of the best npc fights in BB is just before Mergo's, where there are five shadows of yharnam in one spot, just walkign around. Just running there and trying to hit one before they all attack you it's just great. That fight is much better than the big pigs who can just ran over you and ohko you that are just before them.

Glad you mentioned that encounter. The game gives you options of how to face the pigs: (a) you can lead those pigs into the group of Shadows of Yharnam and watch them fight each other (favorite method of farming souls if I haven't bothered with chalice dungeons) or (b) you can position yourself in a narrow passage and charge R2's into their face all day. Both of these options feel natural and would maybe work IRL?

In Bloodborne, most weapons have horizontal sweeps (e.g., Hunter's Axe) or long pokes (e.g., Ludwig's Holy Blade) that facilitate fighting larger groups of enemies. Most enemies in these group encounters, including some of the stronger enemies, like the werewolves, stagger when you hit them. Other enemies that don't get staggered as easily (though transformation attacks are effective), like the white spiders in Cainhurst, can be pulled and fought individually.

I think it'd be a boring game if all encounters adhered to hitting that 'sweetspot.' It's good to switch things up, and this includes tossing everything at the player with the kind of aggression they don't expect (Iron Keep in Scholar is a great example of this), or setting up encounters where the best option is to run, rather than take everything on.

"Fair" to me means that every death is your fault, that you can use the level design, consumables, and equipment to your advantage. I prefer it when these tedious encounters are optional (e.g., fighting the Asylum Demon in DkSI with the default broken weapon), but I also like it when these optional fights are rewarding. So I agree that sometimes you want to deter the player from exploring an area that contains a rewarding item (e.g., the room in the Tomb of the Giants in DkSI with two huge skeletons and four human sized skeletons to get the Large Divine Ember https://youtu.be/8fwhcbTBdSs?t=45) by using an overwhelming amount of enemies. But I'm going to be disappointed if I spend 10 minutes kiting enemies only to find a small soldier's soul, 5 poison knives, and a few coins.

tl;dr I prefer natural combat scenarios (within the context of the game) that offer multiple solutions that don't boil down to hit-and-run/kiting for an excessive amount of time. If you're going to deter me from exploring an area, hide some good shit.

 

[gogosox82]

The route to Smelter Demon in SotFS is fucking stupid. They added a whole bunch of these Alonne Knights which is just stupid stupid stupid. God I hate this.

They add a lot of them to that area. I think there's like 5 or 6 of them you have to kill once you lower the bridge. That a bit overkill if you ask me but if you stand on the other side of the bridge they will all just run over towards you and you can kill them pretty quickly. Some of them will even jump into the lava. So its not too bad but a little annoying.

 

[TheOnlyOneHeEverFeared]

My build is putting most of my level ups into health, vitality, strength, and now adaptability cos of how important poise apparently is.


Is magic worth it? How do I get it?

 

[Neoweee]

The route to Smelter Demon in SotFS is fucking stupid. They added a whole bunch of these Alonne Knights which is just stupid stupid stupid. God I hate this.

They added like 2 or 3. They only re-positioned them so when you get to where they were before, they will samurai charge you.

 

[velociraptor]

SOTFS is so much harder than Dark Souls 1, and not in a good way. It feels cheap.

 

[idonteven]

i loved both dark souls 2 and dark souls 2 sotfs

 

[More Fun To Compute]

My build is putting most of my level ups into health, vitality, strength, and now adaptability cos of how important poise apparently is.


Is magic worth it? How do I get it?

By magic do mean upgrade a mace to +10 then yes the magic of the +10 mace will kill everything.

 

[OmegaTreeFish]

My build is putting most of my level ups into health, vitality, strength, and now adaptability cos of how important poise apparently is.


Is magic worth it? How do I get it?

I used partial magic. So 20 int in the end and 3 stn slots. It allows some ranged for distanced enemies and carry and magic weapon buff as well as a few other tool type spells. You need adaptability for you roll iframes more than anything. The higher your adaptability the more time you are invincible when you roll. Also you do things faster such as use potions etc. Yes its a dumb idea but get that up till your golity is about 100ish and things fell a lot better.

My general build was shield and great axe (use a mace or something till you find one I guess) then get about 20 in vigor (is that the right one for health?) 25-30 in endurance, 20 in int, however much needed in adaptability for 100ish agility and then pump str. Also stay under 70% equip weight for a decent roll.

I was running a mage build till a bit after you have reached but got so bored with it I respeced.

 

[gogosox82]

My build is putting most of my level ups into health, vitality, strength, and now adaptability cos of how important poise apparently is.


Is magic worth it? How do I get it?

Put points into int/faith for the requirements of spells and attunement for spell slots. NPC will sell you some starting spells like soul arrow or lightning spear. Buy them and then go to the bonfire and select attune magic and then select the spell you want for that slot.

 

[Theosmeo]

If you have 45 mins to spare, I found this encapsulated it well: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UScsme8didI

 

[sjboi]

2 is my favorite in the series, and I don't even play the PvP that everyone talks about when defending the game. It's so much more consistent than Dark or Demon's Souls. Lazy and unfinished designs killed those games later on for me even if I enjoyed a lot of what they did.

I also never had trouble with the combat in 2 like so many people. Enemies didn't behave identically to Dark Souls enemies, but I adjusted immediately and never had a problem avoiding tracking enemies. I enjoyed them fucking with people's reliance on kiting enemies one at a time. Made for some great fights where using the environment was more important than circle strafing and backstabbing.

Bloodborne isn't even in the conversation for me though. They basically took out the things I enjoy about the games, and put it in a thoroughly uninteresting monotone setting.

I agree with everything you said. I think Dark Souls 1 is the more memorable game with a better world and story. Dark Souls 2 is so endlessly replayable though! I thought Bloodborne was very monotone, shallow, and boring. I used one weapon from start to finish, didn't meet one single NPC other than the level-up lady, and had no desire whatsoever to replay the game. A very "meh" experience. I hope DS3 brings back the RPG elements big time...

 

[Carl7]

Soul memory killed the game for me, I hated being forced to level up and the high level meta was so ridiculous. That was really a shame also because the netcode and the matchmaking were the best of the series.

 

[Red Liquorice]

Bloodborne was very monotone, shallow, and boring. I used one weapon from start to finish, didn't meet one single NPC other than the level-up lady, and had no desire whatsoever to replay the game. A very "meh" experience..

Isn't the NPC one on you though? There's a bunch of NPCs in Bloodborne. Granted their "questlines" are not really a patch on DS1, but they're there. It sounds like you missed a lot or just walked past most of them.

 

[Tivor Tontomo]

Dark Souls to isnt bad, if it was its own game it would be decent.

 

[MayMay]

I agree with everything you said. I think Dark Souls 1 is the more memorable game with a better world and story. Dark Souls 2 is so endlessly replayable though! I thought Bloodborne was very monotone, shallow, and boring. I used one weapon from start to finish, didn't meet one single NPC other than the level-up lady, and had no desire whatsoever to replay the game. A very "meh" experience. I hope DS3 brings back the RPG elements big time...

That's all your fault. If you don't use a different weapon (and each different weapon in Bloodborne is pretty much like an entire weapon class in Souls games due to the transformations) then I can see how you could think the game was monotone.

And no NPCs? You must've ran past alot of them... which shows you clearly did not even bother to begin with

 

[Dimmle]

This thread has become my personal Altar of Despair before which I pray every day.

 

[Zaventem]

I always found it weird that the DLC was the go to to defend Dark Souls 2 level design. You know the main games level design is fucked when frigid outskirts is seeing as something to be praised.

 

[HarryKS]

Coming from Demon's Souls, I thought Dark Souls 1 was not a good game. It just felt off to me. I tried and tried, just can't do it. It feels like a downgrade. The atmosphere is lacking a bit as well.

I tried Dark Souls 2 after Bloodborne. Big mistake. Can't go back.

 

[Red Liquorice]

I always found it weird that the DLC was the go to to defend Dark Souls 2 level design. You know the main games level design is fucked when frigid outskirts is seeing as something to be praised.

lmao. I'm pretty sure that is the exception to that defense! The main part of all 3 DLCs are pretty decent in terms of level design, all the optional parts - Frigid Outskirts, Iron Passage and the gank squad are some of the worst of the entire series though, maybe THE worst.

 

[sjboi]

Isn't the NPC one on you though? There's a bunch of NPCs in Bloodborne. Granted their "questlines" are not really a patch on DS1, but they're there. It sounds like you missed a lot or just walked past most of them.

I should've said merchants instead of NPCs. I do remember the quest line where I could send the people in the town to one of two locations, although I accidentally killed someone that ran one of the locations (something about a hospital and slippers). And I apparently missed Patches(?) as well.

Either way, more merchants, NPCs, weapons, magic, outfits, etc. would've gone a long way. Dark Souls 2 feels stuffed to the brim with content by comparison.

 

[TheOnlyOneHeEverFeared]

Made it past the sentry, now onto the bastille. I need some slots for goddamn magic.

 

[NZNova]

Was the durability bug fixed in Scholar of the First Sin on the PC? I've been playing it recently and damn if my weapons don't degrade quick. Like, breaking before I can make it to the next bonfire quick.

 

[StrawberryJam]

Coming from Demon's Souls, I thought Dark Souls 1 was not a good game. It just felt off to me. I tried and tried, just can't do it. It feels like a downgrade. The atmosphere is lacking a bit as well.

I tried Dark Souls 2 after Bloodborne. Big mistake. Can't go back.

It's super hard to go back after Bloodborne. I played SOTFS right after finishing BB and had to go dual Caestus, cos I ain't using no shield after BB. I kept running into encounters expecting to regain health after hitting things. Granted I was doing alright but still, wasn't the smartest way to play.

 

[Morrigan Stark]

Was the durability bug fixed in Scholar of the First Sin on the PC? I've been playing it recently and damn if my weapons don't degrade quick. Like, breaking before I can make it to the next bonfire quick.

Yes it's been fixed.

It's super hard to go back after Bloodborne. I played SOTFS right after finishing BB and had to go dual Caestus, cos I ain't using no shield after BB. I kept running into encounters expecting to regain health after hitting things. Granted I was doing alright but still, wasn't the smartest way to play.

Yeah you can't play DS like BB and BB like DS, it's just not a good idea lol.

Do use a shield if you want to. They're nice to have, you know. It's fine if you prefer not to use them but BB wasn't designed with shields in mind, whereas Souls games definitely are.

 

[Ellite25]

I actually just played this on PS4 for about 6 hours today. I'm enjoying it a lot. I never quite understood all the hate. The only thing I will say is that the bosses aren't all that interesting though, at least so far. But besides that the game it great.

Also, Bloodborne looks amazing in comparison, both graphically and in the overall artwork. That game is basically perfect.

 

[mstevens]

I was going to disagree with this thread, but I just got to the varg, graverobber trio. Ganking bullshit. Npcs die immediately and don't help at all either

 

[Orochinagis]

This thread has become my personal Altar of Despair before which I pray every day.

Bringing undead people a reason to live for

 

[Breads]

I was going to disagree with this thread, but I just got to the varg, graverobber trio. Ganking bullshit. Npcs die immediately and don't help at all either

Check back when you visit Frigid Outskirts and let us know what you think then.

 

[Alo0oy]

I should've said merchants instead of NPCs. I do remember the quest line where I could send the people in the town to one of two locations, although I accidentally killed someone that ran one of the locations (something about a hospital and slippers). And I apparently missed Patches(?) as well.

Either way, more merchants, NPCs, weapons, magic, outfits, etc. would've gone a long way. Dark Souls 2 feels stuffed to the brim with content by comparison.

People still bring up weapons? It has 26 trick weapons, every single one of them is viable for end game play, can name that many weapons that are as viable from the previous Souls games?

 

[BigBossVanzetti]

So Bloodborne was my first souls. I've beaten it 4 times. Love it. The sheer experience of playing through it is why I play video games. Beyond epic.

Recently beat Ds2 Sotfs. Still have a few things to wrap up and will do ng+. Love it. Not as much as Bloodborne. Combat felt floaty and using magic is a joke. However, mixing magic, shields and blasting i-frames. Learning each weapons nuances and movements. Deep stuff, and very fun.

I am working through Dark Souls now, I am in the Undead Parish. I can tell based on level design,Undead Burg was better than almost all Ds2 levels in terms of design and atmosphere, weight of character movements and how movement feels that Ds2 is different that this and BB.

I bought demons on sale recently and tried it for maybe five minutes. Not going to touch it until after Ds is beaten. Felt good though, and looked a lot better than I expected.

But seriously. It's damn good. They all are. Don't be nitpicky and enjoy the experience.

 

[Elixist]

its not bad its real good. its not as good in alot of ways to DaS, but not many games are. after playing awhile i started to appreciate the different feel of the whole game compared to part 1. some (alot) of the environments are pretty bland and enemies for that matter. some of the bosses were cheap if you werent approaching/thinking about them correctly, (3 robot fucks with lances im looking at you) but that made for a few instances of co-op and i enjoyed how smoothly that works in this one. not having at least goofy rag doll physics on the bodies really drove home how the boring the death animations are and would probably be my biggest complaint strangely, along with wonky hitboxes at times. but theres some great moments and bosses and i never played the dlc . i'd give it an 8 on the souls scale, 9 on normal scale

 

[jim2point0]

If you have 45 mins to spare, I found this encapsulated it well: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UScsme8didI

First time seeing this thread and that video was the first thing that came to mind.

Why doesn't he do more videos? He should do some more damn videos.

 

[Orochinagis]

Cuz people follow another Souls youtuber who usually says the current souls is the best thing ever and no one wants "bad" critisism on the current souls game.

 

[Manu]

Matthewmathosis' video is really good, but I'm getting a bit tired of seeing it posted every single time as if it was the be-all and end-all of DS2.

.

 

[Neoweee]

I was going to disagree with this thread, but I just got to the varg, graverobber trio. Ganking bullshit. Npcs die immediately and don't help at all either

Purely optional. It's one of the "challenge" fights that you don't need to do for anything.

 

[mstevens]

You don't need it for any spells???

Eh screw it.. Not going to let this game beat me.

 

[Neoweee]

You don't need it for any spells???

Eh screw it.. Not going to let this game beat me.

Ah, it does give a Hex.

I'd recommend all three of the "Challenge" bosses, along with Darklurker and AD, be the last five bosses you tackle. NG+ doesn't automatically trigger after you kill the final boss, so they are genuinely post-game, IMO.

I also don't think the Trio is all that hard. The terrain is key.

 

[Fhtagn]

The trio is all about poison and parrying and terrain management. It's a longer fight than most Dark Souls 2 fights. It also feels like cheap bs at first. I've done it solo though, eventually.

And by terrain management, Benny Hill the shit out of it. Run around like a maniac and jump in the water to heal when you're cornered.

 

[mstevens]

I'm using shield and santier spear and it just feels too slow

Any recommendation on rings? Would extra poise help?

 

[spliced]

I was going to disagree with this thread, but I just got to the varg, graverobber trio. Ganking bullshit. Npcs die immediately and don't help at all either

The momentum can swing very quickly in that fight. I will usually heal my NPC's outside the fog gate then go in and go hard after the dual wielder guy(putting on bleed resistance stuff makes him easier). If you can take him out before your NPC's die you can start backstabing havel over and over.