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[D. Dark]

Personally, I think its a damn good game even if it isn't as good as Dark Souls or Bloodborne. It has lot of content and many good ideas I wish they keep for Dark Souls 3/ BB 2. There are some boring areas but lets not pretend Blightown didn't happen, also the variety of weapons/builds is the best in the series. Id say is worth playing as a souls fan.

 

[OmegaTreeFish]

Ironically, in Bloodborne that's

Spoiler

pretty much how the world is explained, what with the various Nightmare realms woven into the fabric of the real world.

And yet somehow BB still managed to be interconnected.

Well the last third is yes. Buts that's also why no one questioned it.

If they set up a souls like game focused on magic more than anything in a dreamlike world and went super fantastical with the zones that could be pretty awesome potentially.

A part of me is tempted to try a ds2 play through as a pure caster one day as I feel it suffers mostly in the melee side of things. But on the flip side I have never got far enough into a magic build in these games where I didn't stop because I got bored. I have seen some of the later spells and they look much more interesting but getting there would be a chore for me.

 

[shadowfall]

A part of me is tempted to try a ds2 play through as a pure caster one day as I feel it suffers mostly in the melee side of things. But on the flip side I have never got far enough into a magic build in these games where I didn't stop because I got bored. I have seen some of the later spells and they look much more interesting but getting there would be a chore for me.

Try playing as a hexer. I am doing my SOTF as hexer and the game is like an easy mode. When you can beat bosses with nothing but just Dark Orbs, that shows game is quite broken. I started playing as melee and found out that game is not quite suited for melee.

 

[Devil's advocate]

I remember the locations themselves alright but i constantly forget how one leads to another, despite finishing the game 3 times.
I have no idea for example how to get to doors of pharos, or were you go after that. And even the routes i do remember make very little sense. Why is there an elevator from aldias keep to dragon aerie, a place that obviously must be in a completely different part of the world? And it goes on like that.

Meanwhile i can easily remember how DS1s world fits together because it actually does fit together.

However i still hope that some of DS2 changes are kept for DS3, like having the bonfire warp from the beginning or 3 slots for every hand.

 

[Red Liquorice]

Yeah, something about DS2's areas definitely got lost in translation based on their concept art.

I mean, look at this stuff:



Nothing in the game comes even close to capturing this feel.

I don't think I've seen the top one before but I remember the bottom one. I guess it's supposed to be the 'Shaded' Woods and the top one is... Majula?

Wow, they really turned out nothing like the concept.

 

[Orochinagis]

Yep, Majula, there is another one that looks like you are link entering Termina

 

[Manu]

I don't think I've seen the top one before but I remember the bottom one. I guess it's supposed to be the 'Shaded' Woods and the top one is... Majula?

Wow, they really turned out nothing like the concept.

Bottom one looks more like Shrine of Amana.

Top one I don't remember seeing in the game either. It's so Beksinski it hurts.

 

[Moon_frogger]

It's true, you do have to beat a 2nd boss in order to get that next bonfire. But that boss is a quick stroll from the first bonfire in Heide's Tower area, which is a quick stroll from the starting town.

You're missing my point if you think that's good level design. You're missing my point if you think that's how other Souls games are arranged. Having two bonfires in such close proximity is bad enough, but getting (what is potentially) your second bonfire after defeating ONE ENEMY is kinda pathetic.

Look below:



You're looking at 80% of the map. Even though some parts are obscured by the buildings, you can approximate where the boss is, where the other bonfire is, and where that NPC lady is (NPCs used to be rare in other Souls games). This is the view you get just as you exit the sewers. Turn your camera slightly to the left and you see the drawbridge to the Cathedral of Blue. This area looks big, but anyone who has played the game knows that it is not.

The only part you don't see are the underground tunnels leading to No Man's Wharf which are only accessible after you've beaten the area's boss iirc.

Compare that to Dark Soul's first area, Undead Burg. You walk up a narrow stairway and must fight through a group of enemies (certainly an upgrade compared to the vacant, no-enemies sewers between Majula and Heide's):



Once you go through the tunnel, you come out into this area (thus far, we still haven't caught a vista of the whole area like you get right away in Heide's Tower):



Through the fog to the left is the "normal" path but there's also another area behind those barrels on the right. There are several items and several ambushes along the way, and the player still hasn't hit their first bonfire. Even if you ignore the barrels (since it loops back to this area anyway), you have to get through several enemies to proceed. Something else to note is that the areas in Dark Souls are full of barrels, discarded armor, broken walls (leading to secret areas), and all sort of decay. That's not how most levels in DS2 are arranged.

Heck, before you reach your first bonfire in Undead Burg, you get stomped by this:

https://youtu.be/hXSdMHk3Gug?t=6m47s

You can watch the video for an extra few minutes to see the battle to get to the first bonfire. It's definitely a different experience compared to the one zero enemies between Majula and your first bonfire. That is just one example as to why Souls fans thought DS2 was such a step down. And I'm not saying that as if to imply "lol anyone who likes DS2 is a fool and isn't a true Souls fan". Just the opposite: the fans of DS2 seem to have a hard time accepting that other Souls fans didn't like it, which usually ends up filling these threads with bad examples on both sides as to why the game is "bad" or "good". It's just a disappointing game in certain impossible-to-ignore respects, and those of us who couldn't overlook the flaws had a bad time with the game. It's fine if fans of the games weren't bothered by those flaws, but let's not pretend DS2 is the same or similar compared to other Souls gams.

Compare that rundown in Undead Burg to this video of DS2. I skipped ahead so that you don't need to watch the sewers, since there are no enemies and nothing of any consequence whatsoever that the player encounters on their way to Heide's Tower:

https://youtu.be/hA4Oo-WtvH4?t=3m8s

(The player proves me wrong -- you don't even need to beat the first enemy in order to reach the bonfire....)

It's also worth nothing just how small Heide's Tower is. It looks big, but it is full of empty expanses and has very few side-paths and secret areas. The forest leading to the Last Giant is similar: very linear pathways create an area that looks big but is actually smaller than you'd expect.

first of all, you're comparing one of the largest, complex and well designed areas in dark souls to literally the smallest area in dark souls 2. The tower is not an accurate representation of the game as a whole. It's supposed to be short. Second of all, that first bonfire is actually a clever bit of design. If you are observant or already know about it, it seems completely obvious but many players don't even see it as the first giant as well as the background is placed to draw your eye away from it. I know I didn't even see it my first 2 playthroughs and looking online or at youtube comments it's clear that it was missed by many other players. To me this is a subtle yet clever placement of a bonfire. Maybe you don't see it that way and just consider it sloppy design or whatever but I thought it was great. Also, while it may be just a short jog to the boss you will get repeatedly stomped if you are under leveled. I spent more time getting to the boss there than I did in land of the fallen giants. Also your point about getting a bonfire after one enemy is completely irrelevant as you yourself have pointed out because you don't even need to defeat the enemy to get it. It's just a way to avoid running from majula every time which would have been actual bad game design.

Anyway, I'm not trying to convince you dark souls 2 is better than 1, it's not. I just don't think it's fair to compare undead burg to heides tower of flame. Undead burg isn't just better, it's one of the most brilliantly designed levels in any game, ever. It's far better designed than anything else in dark souls 1 as well, in my opinion. That's like saying queen sucks because pink floyd wrote dark side of the moon.

 

[Greddleok]

A part of me is tempted to try a ds2 play through as a pure caster one day as I feel it suffers mostly in the melee side of things. But on the flip side I have never got far enough into a magic build in these games where I didn't stop because I got bored. I have seen some of the later spells and they look much more interesting but getting there would be a chore for me.

I tried that. After a while I got bored and respec'd back to a melee build. Man, I just hate casters in games.

 

[eot]

People keep claiming this thing about 10 enemies at once and I'm wondering if it's a trolling meme at this point. I think about the entire game and I can't recall a single moment where it happens. Sure, 2-4 enemies are common in semi-scripted ambushes, but that is hardly unique for DS2.

So, I guess I'm calling this out now. Give me a concrete example of where this happens or stop parroting this bullshit. For fun, I can provide one example. In the parish cathedral, second floor... In DS1!

I don't know if it's literally 10 enemies in any specific encounter, but the point is that they're too numerous to be fun. There's probably 10 hollows in the upper part of the church in the Undead Parish and that encounter is fine. The problem is when you have high poise, hard hitting enemies that swarm you in a confined space, like when you go through that one door before the Ruin Sentinels. The area that usually springs to mind for me though is the run up to Velstadt, specifically the four fuckheads guarding the fog door. They are scripted to have group aggro, and they're high poise enmies with big shields, and you can't sprint to the fog door because they removed the invlunerability. Fighting them is a chore, every time.

 

[Disaster Nebraska]

first of all, you're comparing one of the largest, complex and well designed areas in dark souls to literally the smallest area in dark souls 2. The tower is not an accurate representation of the game as a whole.

But it is (potentially) the very first area that a player visits. I'm comparing the two because they are both intro areas, in which case the comparison is perfectly fair and rational. If I rank Heide's Tower against Boletarian Palace (DeS) or Central Yharnam (BB) the comparison does not end favorably for DS2, either.

It's supposed to be short. Second of all, that first bonfire is actually a clever bit of design. If you are observant or already know about it, it seems completely obvious but many players don't even see it as the first giant as well as the background is placed to draw your eye away from it. I know I didn't even see it my first 2 playthroughs and looking online or at youtube comments it's clear that it was missed by many other players. To me this is a subtle yet clever placement of a bonfire. Maybe you don't see it that way and just consider it sloppy design or whatever but I thought it was great.

It would've been a better trick if the rest of the level was designed better. Alone, sure, I can see it being easy to miss and therefore being a clever trick, but the only utility for that bonfire is due to the distance between Majula and Heide's, nothing else. If you changed the level and instead walked down a single flight of stairs from Majula to Heide's, the bonfire would've been entirely unnecessary.

Also, while it may be just a short jog to the boss you will get repeatedly stomped if you are under leveled. I spent more time getting to the boss there than I did in land of the fallen giants.

I'm not sure I agree. I specifically remember thinking "oh, a boss already?" when I reached and killed Dragon Rider. In either case, it felt more like an artificial slog than a true challenge. You can get from the entrypoint of Heide's to the entrypoint to Dragon Rider after killing ~6 enemies, ignoring ones on side paths, of course. This is the lowest number of "enemies standing between you and the first boss" in any Souls game ever. It may be the lowest "enemies between you and boss" in any Souls level ever. Perhaps that's an arbitrary distinction, but it's still the truth.

Also your point about getting a bonfire after one enemy is completely irrelevant as you yourself have pointed out because you don't even need to defeat the enemy to get it. It's just a way to avoid running from majula every time which would have been actual bad game design.

It is not irrelevant. As I've pointed out already (see above) the sewers between Majula and Heide's were bad level design. The bonfire was a mediocre fix slapped onto a bad level layout. It should've been either a single staircase down from Majula to Heide's (no bonfire needed), or they should've turned the sewer into a bigger level (more stuff to explore and an actual sense of progression), and/or they should've put more enemies in the sewer to give the player a challenge before they get a checkpoint.

Whether you fight one enemy or no enemy doesn't negate my complaint that -- unlike every other Souls game -- you can get your second bonfire without much of a challenge.

Anyway, I'm not trying to convince you dark souls 2 is better than 1, it's not. I just don't think it's fair to compare undead burg to heides tower of flame. Undead burg isn't just better, it's one of the most brilliantly designed levels in any game, ever. It's far better designed than anything else in dark souls 1 as well, in my opinion. That's like saying queen sucks because pink floyd wrote dark side of the moon.

Heide's Tower is one of the introductory levels, which makes it fair to compare to other introductory levels. And it's very important to compare it to other introductory levels because it shines some light on the reason why plenty of Souls fans (myself included) didn't enjoy Dark Souls 2. Sure, there are better levels later in DS2. I still don't think they're great levels as they still suffer from many of the problems I explained earlier, but they're definitely better than Heide's and Forest.

That being said, the player's first impressions are based on these first levels (shocking, I know) and as such, there is value in comparing introductory levels to see how they differ. And it's not like I'm trying to compare abstract/subjective things like enemy design or difficulty of enemies. We have some very objective facts like distance between bonfires, number of enemies between a bonfire and a boss, number of side-paths, number of items, etc to compare.

 

[OmegaTreeFish]

Try playing as a hexer. I am doing my SOTF as hexer and the game is like an easy mode. When you can beat bosses with nothing but just Dark Orbs, that shows game is quite broken. I started playing as melee and found out that game is not quite suited for melee.

Maybe il try that at some point but the game isnt exactly hard to begin with. It's one of those games I really want to like but can't get over my issues with it.

I got dragons dogma to start tonight so maybe that will take my mind off it.

 

[Murkas]

My thoughts, gonna start of the post by saying that Dark Souls 2 is a good game that I still come back to and have poured hundreds of hours split across PS3+PC and PC+PS4 for SOTFS, but yes it is disappointing compared to the other games.

My problems with the game.

Soul Memory, Adaptability, level design, and hit box issues have been discussed to death so I won't be going in depth with them but they were my most major issues with the game. But adaptability and broken hit boxes were highlighted when I did a SL1 run and fought Velstadt, jesus that was painful. Also a gaffer earlier on posted a video on controlling your characters attacks mid combo and how you couldn't do that in DS2 which was one thing that drove me crazy.

Difficulty = swarms of enemies.

Near enough every level has multiple swarm of enemies to gang up on you which I don't feel is good design, a good few well placed enemies trump it every time. Yes the other games did it but when they did it was "oh shit, loads of enemies!", not "oh shit, again?" You clear one room with a swarm of enemies, next room has another swarm waiting for you. And it massively spilt into their boss design, why make a good boss like Fume Knight? Let us just throw mobs and multiple bosses at them. Compared to the other games, I will probably forget some:

Demon's Souls:
Maneaters
Storm King
Maiden Astrea

Dark Souls:
Capra Demon
Belfry Gargoyles
Smough and Ornstein
Gravelord Nito

Bloodborne:
Shadows of Yharnam
Rom

Now, Dark Souls 2:
Ruin Sentinels
Lost Sinner/ Flexile Sentry NG+
Skeleton Lords
Prowling Magus, if you can call this a boss
5(!) Belfry Gargoyles
Duke's Dear Freya
Royal Rat Authority
Royal Rat Vanguard
Executioner's Chariot, an actual good fight, the mobs are preventing you from pushing the switch, designed for the boss and arena in mind.
2 Dragonriders
Watcher & Defender, who again, I'll admit is a good fight, compliment each other and you got the gimmick of beating them at the same time or will revive each other
3 Graverobbers
Elena, Squalid Queen
Lud & Zallen
Burnt Ivory King, probably my favourite fight in the whole game, full on brawl between 2 teams.

It feels like they went for quantity and not quality, plus there were too many dudes in armour as bosses. In the other games it was rarer so when I saw one, I felt a difficult fight was ahead, why? Because the character I'm controlling is a dude in armour, so after destroying monsters and soldiers, a dude in armour as a boss felt intense. But again, in DS 2, there was too many.

After finishing the games so many times, sometimes, I just wanna run though a level, annoying to due in DS2 do to the mobs of enemies chasing you down, and in SOTFS case, chasing you through the whole level because of the giant aggro range, and even if I do manage to run past, they'll fuck me up when I'm pushing a door, pulling a switch, going through a fog gate due to no longer being invincible during those animations like before, and sometimes running to a boss was just really bad, like the optional bosses in the DLC areas, but apparently those areas were designed to be cooped.

I'm probably gonna go against the grain and say the DLC areas also had problems, from a level design standpoint they were top notch, the lifts in Shulva, activating the Brume Tower with the smelter sceptre, playing Eleum Loyce again after breaking the ice, loved it. But they still suffered from the same problems I had with the game, enemies looked the same, green armoured soldiers of Shulva, metal armoured soldiers for Brume, and blue ice armoured soldiers in Loyce. I paid extra money to fight a blue Smelter Demon, and in Loyce, 3 of the 4 bosses are the same.

Animations, the animation for DS1 felt fluid and weighty, but "off" in DS2 and nothing highlighted it more for me then when you get launched. Here is DS1 , gets launched into the air, then the body rolls and falls into the floor and bounces, here is DS2, couldn't find a better video but hopefully you know what I mean and you've had it happen to you, the body is just frozen in animation in the air. When I first saw that, I purposely got hit again by the ironclad soldier because I wanted to see it again, I know I don't wanna be all "B TEAM" but what am I really supposed to say after seeing that?

Minor issues I had:

Weapon durability issue, I honestly think FROM should just do away with that altogether, but in DS2 it happened too often which is what they were going for I believe, didn't like it.

PVP, yes they made it better, no more fishing for lagstabs, but why is invading consumable now? Hated that, just give me an infinite invading item like you always have. If I wanna invade as a Blue Sentinel, I gotta grind enemies for crushed blue eye orbs, if respawn rates finish, buy them from an NPC (but only on NG+, also increasing my soul memory), or enter a duel and win, and to enter a duel, I have to put a token of fidelity on the line, which I get from successfully cooping and beating a boss, awesome.

I have to win 500 times to max out pvp covenants and get the spell rewards, why such a grindy number, you had it 30 for Dragon covenant and heirs to the sun, why not keep it at that? Or like you did in DS1? And if I don't like it, I gotta go to NG+3 to buy it? I just want Wrath of the Gods ffs

Too many NPC merchants, split across, for example, there's probably about 5 NPCs selling different kind of miracles, cut that down to 1 or 2!

You give me Ornstein, you give me his spear, his ring, but not his armour, wtf man.

Waifus not as good.

Like I said in the beginning, there is still a good game somewhere here, but compared to the other 3, this comes up at the bottom,, DS2 compared to other games? I'd play DS2 every time.

 

[ViolentP]

Weird. Started this 2 days ago and already put 17 hours in. I was lucky to have a gaming weekend like this and I loved every painstaking moment of it.

 

[eot]

Also a gaffer earlier on posted a video on controlling your characters attacks mid combo and how you couldn't do that in DS2 which was one thing that drove me crazy.

Not sure what you mean, do you have the link?

 

[Murkas]

Not sure what you mean, do you have the link?

This one here:

I just uploaded a video from Bloodborne showing the general movement in combat, as you can see, you can aim all your rolling attacks, & change the direction of every attack in general, this is how it worked in Demon's & Dark 1 as well:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Cb0MWa8kCH4

Here is a video I just recorded of Dark Souls 2:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d9OoC0HvELQ

As you can see here, aiming your attacks is extremely wonky, your character often hits a completely different direction than what you intended, that is imo the biggest flaw in Dark Souls 2, not the level design, not the bosses, not the difficulty balance, but this.

Keep in mind that in every situation here, I was aiming my attacks towards the screen, but every single time, my character was hitting to the sides or refusing to attack where I'm actually aiming, it's especially bad with rolling attacks as your character 90% of the time doesn't hit the direction you're aiming.

That's why I can go back to Dark Souls 1 & Demon's Souls & not feel that the combat is wonky, because the combat was never wonky in those games, Bloodborne didn't somehow make the other games obsolete mechanically, they were god-tier the moment they released, & that never changed to this day, judging the previous games by playing Dark Souls 2 is a terrible idea.

I don't have the technical skills to make a side-by-side comparison video, but feel free to use those videos if you want.

(Dark Souls 2 is still better than 99% of the games out there, so it's certainly not "bad' or "shit").

 

[Sword Of Doom]

Played some of the early parts yesterday and there was a part where I walked through a gate and it shut behind me and before I knew it 5-6 enemies were basically chasing me. I'm not sure how I'm supposed to "lure them out". I'm not new to the souls games, I know how to lure enemies so that I'm not overwhelmed but this game is bullshit at times. I'm playing SotFS edition on PS4. Should I be playing the vanilla version on PC?

 

[Morrigan Stark]

It's true, you do have to beat a 2nd boss in order to get that next bonfire. But that boss is a quick stroll from the first bonfire in Heide's Tower area, which is a quick stroll from the starting town.

You're missing my point if you think that's good level design. You're missing my point if you think that's how other Souls games are arranged. Having two bonfires in such close proximity is bad enough, but getting (what is potentially) your second bonfire after defeating ONE ENEMY is kinda pathetic.

What the hell is the point of your rant against Heide? It's a short area, yes. Perhaps disappointingly so.

But let's not pretend there aren't short areas in Dark Souls. Two bonfires in close proximity? You mean like in Tomb of the Giants or Ash Lake? Or all those bonfires in Demon Ruins and Anor Londo? Please. It was almost hilarious watching my boyfriend play Dark Souls 1 recently and complaining there were too many bonfires, especially in Demon Ruins.

I like how you keep writing "potentially" when it's actually extremely unlikely. It's far more likely that a new player will enter the Forest instead of Heide's first and the forest is a large, intricate level full of shortcuts. It's even more extremely unlikely that a new player will find the second Heide bonfire after killing ONE ENEMY, they'd have to speed run past all the giant knights and just kill the Dragonrider, and why would a new player do that?

That is just one example as to why Souls fans thought DS2 was such a step down.

Then it sure is a good example of why DS2 haters are ridiculous. "Oh noes, the enemy placement between your first and second bonfire isn't identical! They destroyed DA FEEL, game sux!" Yeah no. Not to mention for the vast majority of the players, they will enter the Forest first.

which usually ends up filling these threads with bad examples on both sides as to why the game is "bad" or "good".

Mega irony alert right there.

I personally think No Man's Wharf is one of the worst zones in the game.

There's so much 'cheap' stuff in NMW it's ridiculous. First it's 'dark'. Very dark. Meaning you don't see what mobs are ahead of you, and even lighting torches doesn't do enough. The whole Pharos contraption is barely enough.

Wut. The Pharos contraption almost ruins the darkness of it. But you are meant to be carrying a torch in this level. That's the whole point of the torch mechanic.

And people were whining that the torch mechanic was "gutted". Christ...

every fight in NMW feels cheap.

Never had a problem in NMW in either vanilla or Scholar. Cheap? Maybe if you rush in blindly. If you take your time and carefully explore and eliminate your enemies, you'll have no problem.

NMW is one of my favourite areas in the series. It's amazingly atmospheric and well designed and very rewarding to explore.

I dare say Scholar almost ruined it by adding that shortcut. Goddamn casuals whining about vanilla I guess. In my first playthrough I cleared all of NMW + the boss in one go without dying, it felt amazing.

Played some of the early parts yesterday and there was a part where I walked through a gate and it shut behind me and before I knew it 5-6 enemies were basically chasing me.

Where was that? Doesn't sound familiar.

 

[tengiants]

Weird. Started this 2 days ago and already put 17 hours in. I was lucky to have a gaming weekend like this and I loved every painstaking moment of it.

Do you have a strong loyalty to Sony? Probably not, and that's probably why. It came out about the same time as Bloodborne and so it could not be liked by anyone with the Sony glasses on from what I can tell.

It is a better and more complete game than DS1 or Bloodborne. From software was rocking shit before Miyazaki even worked there, and he is not the bastion people claim him to be.

 

[Manu]

Do you have a strong loyalty to Sony? Probably not, and that's probably why. It came out about the same time as Bloodborne and so it could not be liked by anyone with the Sony glasses on from what I can tell.

It is a better and more complete game than DS1 or Bloodborne. From software was rocking shit before Miyazaki even worked there, and he is not the bastion people claim him to be.

You're thinking of Scholar of The First Sin.

Vanilla DS2 came out a year before Bloodborne, dude.

 

[Sword Of Doom]

Where was that? Doesn't sound familiar.

Not sure of the name of the place but it's the first castle you get to from the Forest of the Giants or whatever it's called. I'm early on in the game so I'm not very familiar with the names. The specific area I'm referring to is right past the NPC who is sitting down and after you talk to him you enter through the gate and it closes behind you.

Do you have a strong loyalty to Sony? Probably not, and that's probably why. It came out about the same time as Bloodborne and so it could not be liked by anyone with the Sony glasses on from what I can tell.

It is a better and more complete game than DS1 or Bloodborne. From software was rocking shit before Miyazaki even worked there, and he is not the bastion people claim him to be.

These threads really bring out the worst in people

 

[Morrigan Stark]

Ugh the Sony drivel... smh

Not sure of the name of the place but it's the first castle you get to from the Forest of the Giants or whatever it's called. I'm early on in the game so I'm not very familiar with the names. The specific area I'm referring to is right past the NPC who is sitting down and after you talk to him you enter through the gate and it closes behind you.

Oh yeah, Pate. Hmm yeah that one is tricky but the NPC did warn you, heh. I'd advise two handing your weapon to stagger the mobs maybe. Depends on what your class is.

 

[NBtoaster]

Played some of the early parts yesterday and there was a part where I walked through a gate and it shut behind me and before I knew it 5-6 enemies were basically chasing me. I'm not sure how I'm supposed to "lure them out". I'm not new to the souls games, I know how to lure enemies so that I'm not overwhelmed but this game is bullshit at times. I'm playing SotFS edition on PS4. Should I be playing the vanilla version on PC?

Much like DS1, the combat is well suited to taking on many enemies. There are many weapons with wide reaches. Luring out is a way to play the game but hardly necessary.

 

[Sword Of Doom]

Much like DS1, the combat is well suited to taking on many enemies. Luring out is a way to play the game but hardly necessary.

In dark souls 1 early enemies didn't sprint, they were very slow. I think that's a huge difference

Ugh the Sony drivel... smh

Oh yeah, Pate. Hmm yeah that one is tricky but the NPC did warn you, heh. I'd advise two handing your weapon to stagger the mobs maybe. Depends on what your class is.

I was able to handle it but I'm questioning wether I want to deal with these types of challenges. I want to be in control. I want it to be so that if I get swarmed by enemies, it was because I was careless and impatient and not because that's how the game is designed no matter how I approach it. Also, there is the fact that they remixed the game for the scholars edition. Makes me have little confidence in a developer when they feel the need to change the game like that.

I'm not trying to be overly negative, I'm seriously trying to give the game a chance. I heard a lot about shitty environment and level design and so far I'm actually liking the area I'm in. I enjoyed the smaller and more intricate level designs of bloodborne and demon's souls and so far the area I'm in reminds me of that.

So my question is should I keep playing scholars? Or should I play the vanilla version + DLC on PC without the scholars update.

 

[Morrigan Stark]

So my question is should I keep playing scholars? Or should I play the vanilla version + DLC on PC without the scholars update.

The ambushes like that are actually quite rare and are usually a bit foreshadowed (like Pate's warning). I wouldn't worry about it.

I think both versions have merit, but Scholar is overall better.

 

[Sword Of Doom]

The ambushes like that are actually quite rare and are usually a bit foreshadowed (like Pate's warning). I wouldn't worry about it.

I think both versions have merit, but Scholar is overall better.

Cool. Thanks

 

[tengiants]

These threads really bring out the worst in people

Fair enough, just the actual hate and vitriol the game receives doesn't make any sense to me. The Sony comment comes from when I check the post history of those that post the most hate. Try it sometime.

Bloodborne and DS1 are both great games mind you.

 

[ElFly]

I remember the locations themselves alright but i constantly forget how one leads to another, despite finishing the game 3 times.
I have no idea for example how to get to doors of pharos, or were you go after that. And even the routes i do remember make very little sense. Why is there an elevator from aldias keep to dragon aerie, a place that obviously must be in a completely different part of the world? And it goes on like that.

Meanwhile i can easily remember how DS1s world fits together because it actually does fit together.

However i still hope that some of DS2 changes are kept for DS3, like having the bonfire warp from the beginning or 3 slots for every hand.

Aldia leading to the Aerie fits p well; the walk up to Aldia is uphill, so it hides up the huge columns that form the Aerie from view; once you get to the elevator you can see them.

If you check the labelled map, you see that Aldia/Aerie is on the eastern border of the world, the part that is covered by clouds.

Fair enough, just the actual hate and vitriol the game receives doesn't make any sense to me. The Sony comment comes from when I check the post history of those that post the most hate. Try it sometime.

Bloodborne and DS1 are both great games mind you.

IIRC the people more openly vocal on gaf against DS2 were against it from before launch; they noticed miyazaki not in it and drove the "team b" narrative p hard, mostly cause they had a hard on for "demon souls 2"...at that time, eventually it shifted onto bb.

 

[shadowfall]

I am 60 hrs in to SOTF and did they make the games even more easy? A lot of the areas seems to be made less stressful the second time around. For example Drangelic castle, Shrine of Winter, Dragon Shrine & Aldia's keep. I remember these areas being difficult and now they are strangely a lot easier.

Other than couple changes like Dragon in Heide's tower and that ogre in Forest of fallen giants (totally optional) - the game has already nerfed an already easy game.

I am off to fight ancient dragon - lets see if they nerfed that one since I remember that fight taking me longest on PS3.

 

[Morrigan Stark]

I am off to fight ancient dragon - lets see if they nerfed that one since I remember that fight taking me longest on PS3.

They did. The Shrine too. But the new Shrine is cooler for it, IMO.

The boss fight, eh I don't know. He's not as dangerous as he was, but he was already kind of tedious, so I'm torn.

 

[shadowfall]

They did. The Shrine too. But the new Shrine is cooler for it, IMO.

The boss fight, eh I don't know. He's not as dangerous as he was, but he was already kind of tedious, so I'm torn.

Ancient Dragon is only boss who can one shot your summons even before they cross the fog wall. It is like reverse man eater trick (demon souls strategy where you can shoot arrows through fog wall). I had to use bonfire ascentic to get gowers ring (which now they totally just hand it to you) to escape that fire breath.

 

[ElFly]

Couldn't disagree more. Shadows of Yharnam each had distinct attacks and fighting styles that made you watch out for all three at the same time. They also had phases with crazier attacks that switched things up in the second half.

The Sentinels are three tall boring armored enemies that slowly swing their oversized weapon. From the same cookie-cutter template as 90% of the rest of the game's enemies/bosses.

This looks right on paper, but when I was playing each game, Sentinels are by far, far, faaar away the better fight.

Part of this is the BB online implementation, which is pretty bad. I can guarantee that, if I had a character that had to fight the sentinels right now, he'd have one or two guys to help him in DS2. Good luck chiming your bell in BB. Nobody is coming. Ever. I did the sentinels fight many many times, it was always super fun, both doing it myself and helping people.

Even without considering online, Yharnam dudes are super super easy, got them alone on my second try each time through the game; main problem is the long run to get to them once you die. Sentinels are great because you fight one on top of a platform, and if you fuck up, it will throw you down and then the three sentinels will wreck your shit.

To be fair to the yharnam dudes, they scale down to regular NPCs pretty well; meanwhile, fighting the sentinels as npcs in drangleic castle is super annoying. It is mainly the platform thing.

This same effect happens to a lot of things in DS2. Lost Sinner should not be a good fight, it was SUPER GREAT back when the game came out, particularly in NG+. It was great doing it online. Wish there had been a better implementation for the Mirror Knight, he should have been part of a covenant like the Bell one, but the times I got summoned to help the Mirror Knight were great fun.

 

[MoxManiac]

I loved the sheer amount of areas to explore and ridiculous amount of equipment and items in DS2. It's a rare case where I think quantity over quality actually worked for me.

 

[Starlightmuse]

Well, I'd see that Ds2 is easily the worst in the whole series. It has the worst level design, the worst set of bosses (it has an insane amount of then though) and the worst animations (also, I'm not really a fan of the agility system).
However, it is the biggest game in the series (you can perfectly spend 60 hours in your first playthrough) and the DLCs are top notch (to me, they have the best areas and bosses in the game).

So, the worst in the series, but even though It's better than 90% of the games out there. You should try to keep on with it, OP, it gets better later IMO.

PD: Hi Jor-el.

 

[ViolentP]

Do you have a strong loyalty to Sony? Probably not, and that's probably why. It came out about the same time as Bloodborne and so it could not be liked by anyone with the Sony glasses on from what I can tell.

It is a better and more complete game than DS1 or Bloodborne. From software was rocking shit before Miyazaki even worked there, and he is not the bastion people claim him to be.

I "tried" playing Demon's Souls and Dark Souls a number of times but ultimately it sort of petered off. Once Bloodborne came out, I picked it up and I finally beat one of these games. Fast forward a few months and I catch myself with a day and a half of free time, decided to start DS2, and bam! I realized it was time to go to sleep for work the next morning, 17 hours later.

And that is my tale of Souls.

 

[Marty-esque]

I'm around 20 hours in now and I am enjoying it even though it can be really frustrating. I finally got a katana to level up after just using the starting weapons for the swordsman. I also leveled adaptability more than anything else.

 

[Jeffolation]

I really, really like Ds2, definitely my second favorite entry in the series. Platinumed both editions, which is something I rarely ever do. Bloodborne on the other hand ended up being pretty disappointing to me, I still haven't finished it. Bums me out.

 

[Disaster Nebraska]

What the hell is the point of your rant against Heide? It's a short area, yes. Perhaps disappointingly so.

But let's not pretend there aren't short areas in Dark Souls. Two bonfires in close proximity? You mean like in Tomb of the Giants or Ash Lake? Or all those bonfires in Demon Ruins and Anor Londo? Please. It was almost hilarious watching my boyfriend play Dark Souls 1 recently and complaining there were too many bonfires, especially in Demon Ruins.

I like how you keep writing "potentially" when it's actually extremely unlikely. It's far more likely that a new player will enter the Forest instead of Heide's first and the forest is a large, intricate level full of shortcuts. It's even more extremely unlikely that a new player will find the second Heide bonfire after killing ONE ENEMY, they'd have to speed run past all the giant knights and just kill the Dragonrider, and why would a new player do that?


Then it sure is a good example of why DS2 haters are ridiculous. "Oh noes, the enemy placement between your first and second bonfire isn't identical! They destroyed DA FEEL, game sux!" Yeah no. Not to mention for the vast majority of the players, they will enter the Forest first.


Mega irony alert right there.


Wut. The Pharos contraption almost ruins the darkness of it. But you are meant to be carrying a torch in this level. That's the whole point of the torch mechanic.

And people were whining that the torch mechanic was "gutted". Christ...


Never had a problem in NMW in either vanilla or Scholar. Cheap? Maybe if you rush in blindly. If you take your time and carefully explore and eliminate your enemies, you'll have no problem.

NMW is one of my favourite areas in the series. It's amazingly atmospheric and well designed and very rewarding to explore.

I dare say Scholar almost ruined it by adding that shortcut. Goddamn casuals whining about vanilla I guess. In my first playthrough I cleared all of NMW + the boss in one go without dying, it felt amazing.


Where was that? Doesn't sound familiar.

I know you're jumping into the middle of a discussion and therefore might not have the full context, but please read before going into defensive mode.

I was specifically explaining that the beginning of the game is disappointing to some Souls fans, listed some objective facts about the game, compared those to objective facts about other games, and said "that partly why some people say they don't like the game, me included".

Then all you did is get hyper-defensive with a "why are you ragging on Heide's tower huh?!?" Well, I explained already, but now I've explained again.

If you wanna talk about the game, let's do it. You didn't even comment on what I've said about No Man's Wharf even though the very next paragraph in your comment is quoting some other poster so that you can defend No Mans Wharf...

 

[Fhtagn]

I think most people get to heide's, see the big knight, turn around and go to the forest first. The forest is pretty great. Unless they have a club and make short work of the first knight and stick around.

I do agree more effort should have gone into that transition area between Majula and Heide's. It's boring that it's so linear.

Heide's is a bit short but No Man's Wharf is easily one of my favorite areas in the game, both in vanilla and SOTFS.

Edit:
Oh and that bit of concept art with the stone arch and the roots growing all over it, I've always assumed that was the transition room from Majula to where Benhart is sitting. Your guess is as good as mine.

 

[Wagram]

I really would like to see the Covenant of Champion's in Dark Souls 3. It's the only damn feature I need. Give it to meeee.

 

[Breads]

Try playing as a hexer. I am doing my SOTF as hexer and the game is like an easy mode. When you can beat bosses with nothing but just Dark Orbs, that shows game is quite broken. I started playing as melee and found out that game is not quite suited for melee.

Dark Orb is absolutely ridiculous.

Every time I make a new character and want to Bonfire ascetic farm bosses and whatnot I Soul Vessel into a hexer, equip Dark Clutch Ring and Abyss Seal, pick up the Sunset Staff from Felkin, pump it up with Darknight Stone and Twinkling Titanite, and start cheesing. It does crazy high damage and gives you 3 times the amount of stock as any sensible spell should. With 2 attunement you have 40 shots.

It's crazy it exists while Offensive Miracles continue to be nerfed to the point to where you can no longer play through the game start to finish as a pure faith caster. Even though you can get Lightning Spears and Emit Force early you only get enough to kill like 3-4 enemies and that's it. The build doesn't become viable for 100+ levels.

I think most people get to heide's, see the big knight, turn around and go to the forest first. The forest is pretty great. Unless they have a club and make short work of the first knight and stick around.

I honestly didn't know about the forest for about 2 hours of my first playthrough. I walked passed the entrance thinking there was nothing there I could open yet. I was convinced Heide's was the first area and I tried my best to power through it. No progress was made that day. Granted I picked the Swordsman then. Nowadays I pick the cleric and power level myself at Heide's a bit as the first thing I do.

 

[lukeskymac]

Youre doing it wrong. Bloodborne has ruined this genre IMO - Souls games are God.

Ahahahahaha

 

[Battlesmurf]

I thought DS2 was a little different, but still top tier gaming- especially for the $20 or so it goes for on Amazon these days on PS4. I could think of a lot worse things to spend money on.

That being said- on game forums whenever a game in a series is a little different than the previous, you'll always find people that really dislike it.

It'll be interesting to see the direction they take with DS3 for sure.

 

[NEO0MJ]

Try playing as a hexer. I am doing my SOTF as hexer and the game is like an easy mode. When you can beat bosses with nothing but just Dark Orbs, that shows game is quite broken. I started playing as melee and found out that game is not quite suited for melee.

Casters have always had an edge in these games, though.

It may be the lowest "enemies between you and boss" in any Souls level ever. Perhaps that's an arbitrary distinction, but it's still the truth.

Someone forgot about Bygernwerth ;p

 

[Hypron]

Casters have always had an edge in these games, though.

Yeah, magic was way more broken in DeS and DaS (dark beads lol) actually. Bosses tend to have higher resistance in DaS2 and miracles were nerfed a lot.

 

[takriel]

Yeah, something about DS2's areas definitely got lost in translation based on their concept art.

I mean, look at this stuff:



Nothing in the game comes even close to capturing this feel.

Oh wtf, this looks gorgeous! Shame the game couldn't capture these sorts of atmospheres...

 

[RoadHazard]

Ok, lol, this Pursuer guy is getting a bit ridiculous. His regular boss fight (which was optional, but I just had to smash his face in) was fine, but does he really have to pop up around just about every corner in Lost Bastille? It's easy to just run away (this is one of few enemies that doesn't chase you across the entire area) if you don't want to fight him over and over again, but come on. I understand they significantly upped his appearances in SotFS, which seems like a bad idea. He's not THAT much fun to fight.

But oh well, Sentinels crushed, things are moving along rather nicely for me. And I am enjoying it despite certain annoyances.

 

[eot]

What the hell is the point of your rant against Heide? It's a short area, yes. Perhaps disappointingly so.

But let's not pretend there aren't short areas in Dark Souls. Two bonfires in close proximity? You mean like in Tomb of the Giants or Ash Lake? Or all those bonfires in Demon Ruins and Anor Londo? Please. It was almost hilarious watching my boyfriend play Dark Souls 1 recently and complaining there were too many bonfires, especially in Demon Ruins.

Demon Ruins is one of the few bad areas in Dark Souls, whereas Dark Souls II consistently has poor bonfire placement. Heide's is not even the worst offender.

 

[Auctopus]

But let's not pretend there aren't short areas in Dark Souls. Two bonfires in close proximity? You mean like in Tomb of the Giants or Ash Lake? Or all those bonfires in Demon Ruins and Anor Londo? Please. It was almost hilarious watching my boyfriend play Dark Souls 1 recently and complaining there were too many bonfires, especially in Demon Ruins.

Ash Lake - The first bonfire is a rest after making it all the way from the bottom of Blighttown and down the Great Hollow. The second is so you can warp back to trade in Dragon scales for your covenant.

Tomb of the Giants - The reasoning is pretty much the same and also for a bonfire to warp back from.

 

[Mman235]

Not sure of the name of the place but it's the first castle you get to from the Forest of the Giants or whatever it's called. I'm early on in the game so I'm not very familiar with the names. The specific area I'm referring to is right past the NPC who is sitting down and after you talk to him you enter through the gate and it closes behind you.

There's an alternative route that lets you sneak up on that ambush, along with the NPC that warns you about it (that hints going in the front way is a bad idea).

I am 60 hrs in to SOTF and did they make the games even more easy? A lot of the areas seems to be made less stressful the second time around. For example Drangelic castle, Shrine of Winter, Dragon Shrine & Aldia's keep. I remember these areas being difficult and now they are strangely a lot easier.

The second half is toned down, which is good, because a lot of the stuff in the second half was complete bullshit before. Dragon Shrine in particular is probably the single biggest improvement in SOTFS.

I was specifically explaining that the beginning of the game is disappointing to some Souls fans,

Heide's isn't the "beginning of the game" though. The Undead Burg equivalent is Forest of Fallen Giants.