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[LordOfChaos]

Pretty much lol. "I'll just pop into the halo geek thread, pick two of the best books, and say they were boring and I never read them", haha.

Yes, they do connect to the main halo games. The Forerunner trilogy really gives good context to Halo 4 (and 5). Kilo-5 was some good setup as well, many people poop on them, but after Ghosts of Onyx, the Forerunner Trilogy, and now Saint's Testimony, I actually find them quite up there in my Halo rankings. I actually really found myself caring for the characters in them.

BB alone, worth everything.

 

[Captain Zyrain]

That's a great chart. Was that an official image from the Halowaypoint site?

It was shown in the SDCC panel then put on their website I think.

 

[Kalentan]

It was shown in the SDCC panel then put on their website I think.

Was the comic con panel ever posted online?

 

[Captain Zyrain]

Was the comic con panel ever posted online?

Not that I saw.. I know Frankie said they were working on it.. but SDCC is finicky about when and how content can be shared outside the convention.

It was good, but there wasn't anything ground breaking in it that you're really missing.

 

[GrimBrother One]

Canon Fodder 8-7-15: Rhine Installation

 

[Kalentan]

Canon Fodder 8-7-15: Rhine Installation

Had a feeling it was

Spoiler

Glasglow Kiss

but I went against my gut feeling and went with

Spoiler

Ageis Fate

 

[BlackGhost]

What books would be important in lore towards the release of halo 5.
Edit:

I'll repost this from the last page:

Sorry on mobile, missed it. But thank you!

 

[Kalentan]

What books would be important in lore towards the release of halo 5.

I'll repost this from the last page:

 

[WhiteRabbitEXE]

What books would be important in lore towards the release of halo 5.

This will help answer your question.

To be a little more in depth though, so far it doesn't seem like any books will be necessary for Halo 5's general lore like some were for Halo 4. For the most part the extended universe material that ties into Halo 5 seems to revolve around the backstories of the playable Spartans.

Fall of Reach is your best crash course for Blue Team. Last Light, which comes out next month also focuses on Blue Team. New Blood explores Buck's transition to the Spartan program, though shouldn't be critical by any means. Hunters in the Dark serves as an introduction to Olympia Vale, though like New Blood isn't really critical to anything. There's also Nightfall, the web series/movie that introduced Spartan Locke, but it's largely skipable.

The Escalation comics probably have the most direct connection to the plot of Halo 5, which another character introduction (Tanaka), more Blue Team, and a lot of setup, but I have a feeling the crucial plot-details will be filled in by the first couple levels of the game.

Personally I'd recommend consuming everything you can, starting with the material on that image, since pretty much everything is at least decent, but yeah, I don't think anything will highly important to understanding Halo 5. It'll all just illuminate certain things a little more.

 

[wesleyshark]

I haven't been into Halo lore since like, 2011/2012 and after Halo 4 had very little payoff I kinda gave it up for a while but things seem to be getting interesting and I'm considering picking it back up in my free time, but, where do I even start? The books I have are:
Fall of Reach
Forerunner trilogy
Ghosts of Onyx
Glasslands

Though I haven't read ghosts of Onyx(someone left it at my house and I expected them to come get it, but they live on the other side of the country now) and I couldn't finish Glasslands or Silentium because they were kinda boring. I know before that the current day military stuff and the forerunner stuff wasn't very heavily connected so it wasn't hard to read one without the other, is it still that way and is there new material that focuses on those aspects of the Halo universe more than "modern day" stuff or is it all largely connected now?

Uhhhhhhhhmmmmmm - the Forerunner trilogy has A LOT to do with modern Halo lore and events. Ghosts of Onyx is pretty important, as is the K-5 trilogy to the degree in which it sets up the civil war that is occuring within the Sanghelli ranks- which will be explored to an extent in Halo 5. Plus, the K-5 trilogy has a great cast of characters- some of who will show up in Halo 5 and have already shown up in other EU pieces. BB and Naomi alone are worth the price of admission, there.

But yeah- Silentium is one of the most important pieces of lore in all of Halo.

 

[Human_me]

But yeah- Silentium is one of the most important pieces of lore in all of Halo.

I can't wait till I get to that book.

I finished Cryptum yesterday and started Primordium today.

Cryptum was pretty great and a good look into the Didact and forerunner society.
Primordium seems a bit more boring currently, i'm hoping it will pick up a bit.

 

[wesleyshark]

I can't wait till I get to that book.

I finished Cryptum yesterday and started Primordium today.

Cryptum was pretty great and a good look into the Didact and forerunner society.
Primordium seems a bit more boring currently, i'm hoping it will pick up a bit.

Primordium covers a lot of ground....

Spoiler

Sorry.

It does pick up eventually, but I think that book is meant to give you the grand scale of being on a Halo ring... And for better or worse, it definitely does haha. That being said, the last act of Primordium is pretty great.

 

[szaromir]

Halo 4 in late 2012 and Silentium in early 2013 were the last pieces of Halo fiction I consumed. I read Glasslands when it came out but it made me feel genuinely angry in how the spin on the previously established characters and events didn't make any sense at all. Recently I spotted The Thursday War and and Mortal Dictata in my local library and borrowed them. I'm about 100 pages into TTW and despite several years of break from the Halo stuff it still annoys the hell out of me.

Spoiler

-ONI chef pinning Halsey as this huge war criminal makes no sense given that ONI went on with the Spartan III program which was even more morally dubious
-Elites constantly referencing humans as this super aggressive and expansive and rapidly procreating species is also dumb, considering that Elites only met humans in 2525 and very nearly brought them to extinction mere 27 years later. The novels take place very shortly after the war, so it's not like humanity had any time to give other species that impression.

Those are my two main gripes, it might not seem like much but these points are repeated over and over in the novels and there's no subtlety to Traviss's writing at all. The difference in the quality of Bear's Forerunner trilogy and the Kilo-Five Trilogy is astounding.

 

[wesleyshark]

The Kilo Five books are fantastic, and their relevancy rings truer post-Hunt the Truth. That is all.

 

[szaromir]

The Kilo Five books are fantastic, and their relevancy rings truer post-Hunt the Truth. That is all.

In Hunt the Truth it's revealed that the Spartan-3 program never happened or that hundreds of years have gone by since the Halo/Flood crisis?

 

[soulassssns]

In Hunt the Truth it's revealed that the Spartan-3 program never happened or that hundreds of years have gone by since the Halo/Flood crisis?

Lol what? Never happened?

 

[WhiteRabbitEXE]

The Kilo Five books are fantastic, and their relevancy rings truer post-Hunt the Truth. That is all.

You and I have very, very different ideas on the meaning of the word "fantastic".

Some great characters, sure, but also some not particularly great writing and some spectacularly bad author mouth-piecing that defies all reason.

Also, I don't think anyone questioned their relevancy.

Spoiler

Save for Mortal Dictata dropping literally all major plot-lines to focus on a single sub-plot that had been shelved for two books, only to leave the status quo completely unaltered. Umpf.

 

[The Elite]

I'll repost this from the last page:

This is perfect. Thanks.

 

[NoLongerALurker]

Was the comic con panel ever posted online?

The comic con panel is now up on the Halo Channel.

 

[Tyrus]

So I'm currently in a Halo binge in prep for Halo 5, getting myself back up-to-date with the lore, starting from The Fall of Reach. I already own First Strike, Ghosts of Onyx, Contact Harvest and Grasslands, but it's been years since I read them and my memory hazy. I was gonna buy the rest of the novels from there out while a sale is on.

Any stinkers/inconsistent entries not worth a shot if I'm time-poor? I've heard recently that The Cole Protocol wasn't great, for instance.

 

[Fuchsdh]

I think there's a question of what's relevant to the lore, versus what's actually good on its own merits. The Cole Protocol ultimately isn’t that engaging as a novel, and mostly exists as a way of backfilling character stories; I found it utterly uninteresting and haven’t gone back to reread it. But with a lot of the more recent novels, whether you’re a fan of Traviss or Bear or whatnot, you can’t say with certainty what elements will actually be relevant.

FoR, FS, GoO, CH, and Grasslands are all pretty much codified as important at this point in how they link in and around the games and work as their own sort of linear tale. The Forerunner Trilogy may or may not have a lot more connections to future games, but right now it's mostly just relevant to Halo 4. Thursday War and Mortal Dictata relate to Halo 4 in the same way and maybe some philosophical points, but aren't essential. Still, I honestly recommend reading all the books. Checking stuff out from your library to try before you buy seems like a good option.

 

[Tyrus]

Cheers, Fuchsdh. How about the comic books, like Bloodline and Escalation? They worth a pick-up now that they have paperbacks?

 

[Fuchsdh]

Cheers, Fuchsdh. How about the comic books, like Bloodline and Escalation? They worth a pick-up now that they have paperbacks?

I'm personally not a fan of Bloodlines, because I think that Spartan Black are pretty weak characters. The best thing in the comic is the art, really. But aside from questionable art, especially early on, I've found Escalation to be consistently engaging and it's definitely pushing the lore forward.

 

[AYF 001]

Reading some of the complaints in other threads yesterday got me thinking. What're the chances future Halo games (maybe even 5 if they could patch it in later) would have a Mass Effect style Codex? It could give players not familiar with the EU some backstory on characters and events without having explanations shoehorned into the dialogue. Not to mention entries could list the sources, that way they would know where to start if they decided to delve deeper, without having to consult half a dozen people online about which authors to read and in what order.

 

[Fuchsdh]

Reading some of the complaints in other threads yesterday got me thinking. What're the chances future Halo games (maybe even 5 if they could patch it in later) would have a Mass Effect style Codex? It could give players not familiar with the EU some backstory on characters and events without having explanations shoehorned into the dialogue. Not to mention entries could list the sources, that way they would know where to start if they decided to delve deeper, without having to consult half a dozen people online about which authors to read and in what order.

It certainly would be nice. Really Halo Waypoint never realized its potential, and it's a shame the concept hasn't been furthered with the Halo Channel now that the technology exists for the kind of experience you'd need.

 

[Captain Zyrain]

It certainly would be nice. Really Halo Waypoint never realized its potential, and it's a shame the concept hasn't been furthered with the Halo Channel now that the technology exists for the kind of experience you'd need.

They keep adding things on Halo Waypoint though.. usually during Jeff's "Canon" segments on Friday.

I'd like to see it be fully fleshed out and encompass MORE than Halopedia etc, but I don't know if that'll happen.

I assume if they did work it into the games, it'd be through the Halo channel app like the terminals, which isn't ideal but at least it's something.

The universe is getting so rich and details you do need some sort of primer for people who (for whatever reason) may be new to the series. MCC is a good start, as at least you can play ALL the games on the same console at this point (Minus Reach and Spartan Strike).

 

[Fuchsdh]

They keep adding things on Halo Waypoint though.. usually during Jeff's "Canon" segments on Friday.

I'd like to see it be fully fleshed out and encompass MORE than Halopedia etc, but I don't know if that'll happen.

I assume if they did work it into the games, it'd be through the Halo channel app like the terminals, which isn't ideal but at least it's something.

The universe is getting so rich and details you do need some sort of primer for people who (for whatever reason) may be new to the series. MCC is a good start, as at least you can play ALL the games on the same console at this point (Minus Reach and Spartan Strike).

I was referring to the Halo Waypoint application, which is dead, not the website—but some of the criticisms hold there too. A lot of Waypoint's early content has been lost entirely (Voc's "Different Way to Campaign", and their summary videos) in between the platform changes and site redesigns. It's not easy to navigate and find things. Forums aren't as much of a mess as they once were but aren't great.

 

[AYF 001]

I was referring to the Halo Waypoint application, which is dead, not the website—but some of the criticisms hold there too. A lot of Waypoint's early content has been lost entirely (Voc's "Different Way to Campaign", and their summary videos) in between the platform changes and site redesigns. It's not easy to navigate and find things. Forums aren't as much of a mess as they once were but aren't great.

Yeah me and one of my college buddies, whom I will refer to as "My Casual Friend" (MCF for short) have been playing through MCC, and if I weren't around to explain things and show him the terminals he'd be very clueless right now. We had trouble loading the Waypoint app multiple times when trying to watch the terminals, so relying on external sources for information can be inconsistent. If MCF didn't have someone to explain cutscenes and characters, since we might be talking during the exposition because we aren't monks, he doesn't have any easy way to have a recap of events other than reloading a checkpoint to hear it again. Not to mention having easy access to quick explanations, details, and summaries could be a good way to kill time while you wait for co-op partners to return from bathroom/food etc.

 

[Captain Zyrain]

I think there is also something to be said about consuming media as it's released, versus in one big binge-fest (I like both, not judging).

We had years between games to play them multiple times, consume additional content, read strategy guides etc. I can see how just sitting down and playing through all the games for the first time would be a much different experience than we (die hard old halo fans) had.

I don't know if that's a failing of the story-telling or just an unintended consequence no one thought of years and years ago.

The issue would be moot if Waypoint (website) or Halo Channel was super reliable and chock full of information. I can't see any reason (other than cost) that Waypoint can't match or beat Halopedia in content and presentation. However, right now, I will 99.95438% of the time go to Halopedia BEFORE Waypoint if I'm curious about something.

Halo Channel should just be an extension of the feature-rich Waypoint.

Hopefully they'll get there, as this universe is rich and steeped in lore, I would love for it to become more accessible to new fans.

 

[WhiteRabbitEXE]

The issue would be moot if Waypoint (website) or Halo Channel was super reliable and chock full of information. I can't see any reason (other than cost) that Waypoint can't match or beat Halopedia in content and presentation. However, right now, I will 99.95438% of the time go to Halopedia BEFORE Waypoint if I'm curious about something.

To be fair, given the very nature of a Wiki, Waypoint/THC could never beat Halopedia in terms of content, since Halopedia would just absorb that content. Unless you mean more in terms of depth and quality of writing than simply the amount of canonical facts.

 

[Tyrus]

I'm personally not a fan of Bloodlines, because I think that Spartan Black are pretty weak characters. The best thing in the comic is the art, really. But aside from questionable art, especially early on, I've found Escalation to be consistently engaging and it's definitely pushing the lore forward.

Thanks for your advice mate. I went ahead and purchased six books to begin with (once I've finished Nylund's trilogy, Grasslands and Contact Harvest again):

- Halo: Evolutions
- Halo: The Cole Protocol
- Halo: The Thursday War
- Halo: Mortal Dictata
- Halo: Broken Circle
- Halo: Hunters in the Dark

I was going to get the Forerunner trilogy, but decided I'll jump on that later down the track. I want the 'core' storyline about the UNSC, Spartans and so forth fresh in my mind, and I did enjoy reading heavily on the Covenant perspectives in earlier novels, so Broken Circle and Hunters in the Dark should be fun from what I've heard.

I'll eventually get onto Bloodline and Escalation, if only to see more of Black Team and Blue Team.

Also, is anyone excited to see Fred and John interact within Halo 5 in regards to Fred's higher rank (granted to him by Kurt in Ghosts of Onyx)? I know Fred always liked being second-in-command even if he was more than capable, just for some reason curious to see how 343i portrays this in-game. They've acknowledged it in a few previews: https://farm1.staticflickr.com/557/18471247129_757a1bb9bd_o.jpg

 

[Captain Zyrain]

To be fair, given the very nature of a Wiki, Waypoint/THC could never beat Halopedia in terms of content, since Halopedia would just absorb that content. Unless you mean more in terms of depth and quality of writing than simply the amount of canonical facts.

Yeah, I would hope it sets the bar for other sites to follow. I suppose it's redundant since the Wiki's do exist, but since we were talking about a 'Codex' type thing, and you can't access the Wiki's in-game (Unless you have a tablet or tab out to a Browser) I was hoping for something more... complete from Waypoint/THC.

 

[Christof]

Half way thru Mortal Dictate now; I have to say the characters internal monologues are extremely grating on me. I just wish characters were a little more self aware

Spoiler

as they condemn Halsey and pretty much the entire human history while most of them contemplate commiting some kind of genocide or civilian population massacres.

I find myself trying to rationalize their actions by telling myself that all the characters are just blow-hard, traumatized and/or simple-minded which is weird for a supposed super-spy-team.

Is this one of those times where its going over my head and "that's the point"

EDIT: Oh and I feel the book would have been WAY better if it was condensed down to like half its length. It feels very meandering and overly-indulgent.

 

[Fuchsdh]

Half way thru Mortal Dictate now; I have to say the characters internal monologues are extremely grating on me. I just wish characters were a little more self aware

Spoiler

as they condemn Halsey and pretty much the entire human history while most of them contemplate commiting some kind of genocide or civilian population massacres.

I find myself trying to rationalize their actions by telling myself that all the characters are just blow-hard, traumatized and/or simple-minded which is weird for a supposed super-spy-team.

Is this one of those times where its going over my head and "that's the point"

EDIT: Oh and I feel the book would have been WAY better if it was condensed down to like half its length. It feels very meandering and overly-indulgent.

I felt the opposite, actually—to me the book sort of just ends, and some threads don't really get touched on

Spoiler

unless I'm crazy we really don't know what happened to the Kig-Yar. At all.

I can see where some of the fat in the middle could be trimmed, but I don't really think self-awareness is their issue, specifically as they're talking about humans vs. aliens versus the ethical issues of human experimentation.

 

[Zombie Lyle]

Does anybody know the chronological order for reading the comics?

 

[Fuchsdh]

Does anybody know the chronological order for reading the comics?

Halo Wars: Genesis > Helljumper > Halo Graphic Novel > Bloodlines > Initiation > Escalation

 

[Zombie Lyle]

Halo Wars: Genesis > Helljumper > Halo Graphic Novel > Bloodlines > Initiation > Escalation

Thanks, where does Uprising fit into it?

 

[Toa TAK]

Thanks, where does Uprising fit into it?

After the graphic novel.

 

[MaxRealflugel]

Half way thru Mortal Dictate now; I have to say the characters internal monologues are extremely grating on me. I just wish characters were a little more self aware

Spoiler

as they condemn Halsey and pretty much the entire human history while most of them contemplate commiting some kind of genocide or civilian population massacres.

I find myself trying to rationalize their actions by telling myself that all the characters are just blow-hard, traumatized and/or simple-minded which is weird for a supposed super-spy-team.

Is this one of those times where its going over my head and "that's the point"

EDIT: Oh and I feel the book would have been WAY better if it was condensed down to like half its length. It feels very meandering and overly-indulgent.

Remember, those books are seen from K-5 perspective, not our all-seeing view of the universe.

 

[szaromir]

Remember, those books are seen from K-5 perspective, not our all-seeing view of the universe.

Well yes, it's possible some K-5 members didn't know about eg. the entire Flood crisis thing and MC's role in stopping it or specifics of the S-2 program. Still, it's extremely weird that - months after a war against alien species that nearly led humanity to extinction (and most likely their families) - most of their thoughts navigate around an old hag kidnapping a bunch of kids and turning them into supersoldiers some thirty years prior. It just makes no sense. It would be akin to you spending most of your day thinking about the genocides that were committed in Africa in the 1990s in parts.

 

[WhiteRabbitEXE]

The biggest problem there is that all of their thoughts and feelings on the subject are completely identical. And that it's all taken to extraordinarily extreme levels. Like literally every time one of them got even a little angry at anything they started internally (and occasionally externally) monologuing about how evil Halsey and the SII program were. It got to the point in Mortal Dictata that I expected one of them to stub their toe and explain in 3 pages why it was Halsey's fault.

And

Spoiler

Vaz plotting to kill her was just dumb. Like that nonsense with Kodiak in Hunters

.

 

[Fathead]

K5 is a unit led by a discarded spartan and containing another. With Osman absolutely loathing Halsey openly, its natural for the unit to start following her lead. These people are literally living with victims of Halsey's project.

Now ONI is just as culpable for the Spartan program, but since these people are living in ONI's direct control, they are ignoring that elephant. Probably not unexpected.

It could have been written better, of course, but I dont think the characters are acting that far off what reality would be in that situation.

 

[Fuchsdh]

After reading through the entire K5 trilogy, I feel like the series was hampered by having to serve two masters other than Traviss' own core story. It had to introduce elements for Halo 4, it had to wrap up Ghosts of Onyx, and then it dealt with the human aspect of the Spartan Program. Really it felt like by the time we got to Mortal Dictate where it really mattered some of the background and character's attitudes were a retread of where we were earlier. I wonder if it would have been better if that stuff had been added in more slowly.

 

[WhiteRabbitEXE]

K5 is a unit led by a discarded spartan and containing another. With Osman absolutely loathing Halsey openly, its natural for the unit to start following her lead. These people are literally living with victims of Halsey's project.

Now ONI is just as culpable for the Spartan program, but since these people are living in ONI's direct control, they are ignoring that elephant. Probably not unexpected.

It could have been written better, of course, but I dont think the characters are acting that far off what reality would be in that situation.

Them being angry about the Spartan-II program's origins and its impact is one thing. Obviously that makes sense and it's going to be a talking point. And of course they'll feel upset on behalf the Spartans close to them. But no one really thinks they shouldn't have any negative feelings either. The issue is the extent and uniformity of it all, which goes to believability shattering extremes. It's so comical at points that it gets to "men think about sex every 7 seconds" myth levels of ridiculousness. It's like, all they can think about. Ever. To the extent that they can barely function without incorporating Halsey rage into every action. It's just silly.

Even sillier is how easily people place the blame squarely on Halsey. Despite the numerous other people involved. It's like

"Yeah, other people were involved too, but Halsey!"
"Sure, I made all of this possible, but I guess I know it's bad so she's worse because reasons!" "Yup, that's true!"
"This one guy made a thousand Spartans literally designed to be disposable, but we won't talk about that"
"HALSEY"

 

[shiba5]

Halo 4 had too much of that as well. No one ever says, "Hey, we'd all be dead if it weren't for Halsey."
There's no conflict between different viewpoints like there would be in real life. I think even the Infinity AI is hostile to her, and she created him!

 

[Poodlestrike]

Halo 4 had too much of that as well. No one ever says, "Hey, we'd all be dead if it weren't for Halsey."
There's no conflict between different viewpoints like there would be in real life. I think even the Infinity AI is hostile to her, and she created him!

I'm inclined to disagree on that count; I think Halo 4 and Spartan Ops did a much better job of handling things than the Traviss novels. A lot of characters express disgust for her actions (which were, indeed, disgusting), but she gets some solid hits in and some characters like Lasky and Thorne have a more nuanced, or at least uncertain, position.

Roland doesn't like her because she's sort of a dick when it comes to AIs. Constantly jerking them around and pushing buttons, pulling levers. Regards them more as fancy toys than actual, intelligent people. Makes them feel fake.

 

[shiba5]

I'm inclined to disagree on that count; I think Halo 4 and Spartan Ops did a much better job of handling things than the Traviss novels. A lot of characters express disgust for her actions (which were, indeed, disgusting), but she gets some solid hits in and some characters like Lasky and Thorne have a more nuanced, or at least uncertain, position.

Roland doesn't like her because she's sort of a dick when it comes to AIs. Constantly jerking them around and pushing buttons, pulling levers. Regards them more as fancy toys than actual, intelligent people. Makes them feel fake.

I always felt Lasky was too wishy washy - he's been on the front lines and knows what's at stake, Master Chief is the only reason he's alive, but he never vehemently disagrees with Palmer. I agree with you on Thorne. He was handled better.
Palmer was over the top and there was no reason (that was explained) why she was so enraged by Halsey. It felt abrupt and not very believable to me. (I did not read the Traviss novels so, in the game, I was surprised by the about face on Halsey.)

Maybe Roland is jealous of Cortana who was always treated with respect.

 

[Poodlestrike]

I always felt Lasky was too wishy washy - he's been on the front lines and knows what's at stake, Master Chief is the only reason he's alive, but he never vehemently disagrees with Palmer. I agree with you on Thorne. He was handled better.
Palmer was over the top and there was no reason (that was explained) why she was so enraged by Halsey. It felt abrupt and not very believable to me. (I did not read the Traviss novels so, in the game, I was surprised by the about face on Halsey.)

Maybe Roland is jealous of Cortana who was always treated with respect.

In part, the increased Halsey bashing is sort of a reaction to her quasi-Mary-Sue status under Nylund. Omnidisciplinary scientist who wins every argument and is always in the right...

So Palmer is sort of an expression of an increased awareness of the fact that what she did was super fucked up. What the Traviss novels failed at is acknowledging the wider picture from an in-universe perspective, that Halsey did not act alone and that what she did ultimately saved the universe. For some people (Osman) that'll simply never be enough. For others (Palmer), they can't reconcile their disgust at her actions with the creeping awareness that they'd probably be dead if it wasn't for her, so they lash out. Others (Lasky, Thorne) have the opposite priorities, they're grateful for her and the Chief, but they can't shake their discomfort with the child soldier thing. So you get a lot of different reactions.

And the Roland thing is definitely on Halsey. She treats AIs (who aren't Cortana) incredibly poorly. She knows all their little flaws. It's like dealing with some kind of supergenius psychologist who's constantly jerking your chain.

 

[shiba5]

In part, the increased Halsey bashing is sort of a reaction to her quasi-Mary-Sue status under Nylund. Omnidisciplinary scientist who wins every argument and is always in the right...

So Palmer is sort of an expression of an increased awareness of the fact that what she did was super fucked up. What the Traviss novels failed at is acknowledging the wider picture from an in-universe perspective, that Halsey did not act alone and that what she did ultimately saved the universe. For some people (Osman) that'll simply never be enough. For others (Palmer), they can't reconcile their disgust at her actions with the creeping awareness that they'd probably be dead if it wasn't for her, so they lash out. Others (Lasky, Thorne) have the opposite priorities, they're grateful for her and the Chief, but they can't shake their discomfort with the child soldier thing. So you get a lot of different reactions.

And the Roland thing is definitely on Halsey. She treats AIs (who aren't Cortana) incredibly poorly. She knows all their little flaws. It's like dealing with some kind of supergenius psychologist who's constantly jerking your chain.

This is a very thoughtful post and I concede the point . Think I'll go re-play Halo 4 now since it's been awhile.

 

[Fuchsdh]

I think Palmer just doesn't get enough character development in Sparta Ops. Escalation makes it clear she doesn't like Hasley and sees her failure to take her out the first time as a serious error she is trying to (over)correct for, but it seems like she also sees herself as Laskey's counterpart--someone who does what needs to be done, keeping other hands clean. They're also both aware of how much disobeying ONI could come back to haunt them--so despite her disagreement with Laskey about killing Halsey she still sticks her neck out and covers for him afterwards.

I really like Palmer on balance, I just wish 343 hadn't been so seemingly transparent in pushing her as a main character.