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[RawNuts]

It doesn't seem out of the realm of possibility that the journalist was maybe autistic judging from that exchange. Totally oblivious to the social cues.

Whoa there, you're introducing too many variables. We want to keep this black and white, be done with this thread in a timely manner and clock out.

 

[davidjaffe]

Personal =/= tell me how good you are at munching on carpet.

I understand that. But he's already calling her pretty lady at that point. Wouldn't you advise her to keep it strictly pro then?

If a waiter comes up to you and says 'Hey! Welcome to Captain D's! How are we doing today?' that is pure business. It's not really an invite to start talking about your divorce unless you are interested in taking the conversation to a more personal level. So I'm just saying that I can see how in the dude's mind he's going 'ok, she's cool chatting about stuff that's more than JUSt business.' Never said I see how that means she's ready to talk about him kissing her vagina, for God's sakes. Fuck.

 

[Devolution]

God you are so predisposed to this view that there's no use talking to you.

Let me just say this: if ANY woman at our business/office/working on our game would have to put up with this in order to do business and carry on, I would consider it a badge of shame I'd wear for life (given I'm a co-owner of the business and the game director). As much as I think many of y'all are getting this wrong-ish, I DO NOT SUPPORT ANYTHING OTHER THAN AN EQUAL AND FAIR WORKPLACE for men and women, any orientation, race,etc.

Not all of us men are dicks trying to keep women down. I love working with women and attribute a lot of the success I've been lucky to have to a number of great women. Because of that- AND because I have 2 little girls whom I adore with every fiber- it would break my heart to ever learn I had made someone feel bad at their place of work because of their gender,etc.

Happy to make them feel bad if they are shit at their job and are making the game shit, however .

David

Predisposed to a view that's made solid by what women in the industry have been saying for months now and tweeting about? Do you have them all blocked? Or did they not say stop enough times for you?

 

[BananasWithGuns]

For instance, for all we know, her boss is kind of a sexist asshole who'd think along the same lines of Jaffe and ask her, "well, why didn't you stop him."

So we're calling Jaffe a sexist asshole now? That's a bit ridiculous.

It's fine if you don't agree with what he's trying to say but nowhere has he condoned what the guy did nor is he putting blame on the female. The points he made are very viable if you would actually stop and think about what Jaffe is trying to say because he does bring up some things that are interesting to think and debate about. That doesn't make him a sexist asshole.

 

[Rocket Scientist]

Actually, in a high profile moment like this, doing it online was the safest course of action. For instance, for all we know, her boss is kind of a sexist asshole who'd think along the same lines of Jaffe and ask her, "well, why didn't you stop him."

I don't see what her boss has to do with.

Considering the guy was selling PUA tactics on Youtube, I somehow doubt that confronting him the next day would've done much good. Especially when that can lead to more blowback. "Look man, I'm sorry I haven't done any stories on your game, but that girl you've got working for is real stand off ish. I'm trying to be a little funny and she shuts me down. But ya' know, ya' know how those wacky feminists are...."

Why would he be more inclined to do stories on her game after she publicly humiliated him? If he was a piece of shit who wasn't going to cover her game if she told him to stop, he sure as hell isn't going to cover it now.

 

[davidjaffe]

So we're calling Jaffe a sexist asshole now? That's a bit ridiculous.

It's fine if you don't agree with what he's trying to say but nowhere has he condoned what the guy did nor is he putting blame on the female. The points he made are very viable if you would actually stop and think about what Jaffe is trying to say because he does bring up some things that are interesting to think and debate about. That doesn't make him a sexist asshole.

Thanks . I appreciate that, sir.

 

[NTIETS13A_Superiority]

This thread (now) is about: People should not be assholes.
I agree, but people have right to be assholes and I will fight for that right for the them till the end.
You are making disservice to real harassed people around the world.

 

[RawNuts]

I understand that. But he's already calling her pretty lady at that point. Wouldn't you advise her to keep it strictly pro then?

If a waiter comes up to you and says 'Hey! Welcome to Captain D's! How are we doing today?' that is pure business. It's not really an invite to start talking about your divorce unless you are interested in taking the conversation to a more personal level. So I'm just saying that I can see how in the dude's mind he's going 'ok, she's cool chatting about stuff that's more than JUSt business.' Never said I see how that means she's ready to talk about him kissing her vagina, for God's sakes. Fuck.

I hope your co-workers bust your balls when you tell them the reason that you're tired is because you stayed up late posting on GAF.

 

[docbon]

Whoa there, you're introducing too many variables. We want to keep this black and white, be done with this thread in a timely manner and clock out.

I'm dying.

 

[EdibleKnife]

Why would he be more inclined to do stories on her game after she publicly humiliated him? If he was a piece of shit who wasn't going to cover her game if she told him to stop, he sure as hell isn't going to cover it now.

He ain't the only journalist in town.

 

[JesseEwiak]

So we're calling Jaffe a sexist asshole now? That's a bit ridiculous.

It's fine if you don't agree with what he's trying to say but nowhere has he condoned what the guy did nor is he putting blame on the female. The points he made are very viable if you would actually stop and think about what Jaffe is trying to say because he does bring up some things that are interesting to think and debate about. That doesn't make him a sexist asshole.

I'm not saying Jaffe is a sexist asshole, but a whole lot of sexist assholes sure like to turn the tables on women and ask why they didn't act the way they "obviously should've" when you have all the information and look at it in 20/20 hindsight.

So yeah, I can totally see a boss being shown that conversation and reacting the way Jaffe is. "Oh, he's being dumb, but why didn't you tell him to stop?"

 

[Jito]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sKqgC_BR_pA

Holy shit! Pick up line of all time.

 

[GhostTrick]

What?!? Read the following tweet. Not saying it's a signal that she wants to have sexy time with this guy. Saying that talking about her divorce at the top of the conversation makes it clear that she's ok if the conversation is not PURE business level but she's ok talking about personal aspects of her life.

Man, you're so conditioned to jump at these talking point like buzz words that you don't even take details into account. It's so Pavlovian of you. Blech.

True of that, the divorce part could be considered as a "we can talk something else than business"... but come on... it's like if someone you have professional relationship with just ask you "how has been your week end ?" and then you answer "SEX WITH ME NOW !"
While I can see your point, there's a huge difference between trying to seduce someone because you see that person is getting into personal life territory, and just go straight for the thing, telling that person you want sex with that person.

 

[Ravensmash]

This thread (now) is about: People should not be assholes.
I agree, but people have right to be assholes and I will fight for that right for the them till the end.
You are making disservice to real harassed people around the world.

I think it's less to do with people being arseholes, and more to do with acknowledging people will be arseholes and how to potentially deal with said situation.

Im genuinely enjoying this debate, from both sides.

 

[JesseEwiak]

He ain't the only journalist in town.

Also, he may enjoy the game, but not cover it out of spite after she turns him down, for real. But, getting her fired/demoted/seen as less in her bosses eyes might be a decent charge for him as well. That's not out of the realm of possibility. Things have not been covered in newspapers because of petty BS like that. I see no reason why it wouldn't happen in the games press.

But yes, obviously, if your expose the guy as an asshat, you might get coverage from other outlets who might look to this site for games to look out for.

 

[Prophet Steve]

I understand that. But he's already calling her pretty lady at that point. Wouldn't you advise her to keep it strictly pro then?

If a waiter comes up to you and says 'Hey! Welcome to Captain D's! How are we doing today?' that is pure business. It's not really an invite to start talking about your divorce unless you are interested in taking the conversation to a more personal level. So I'm just saying that I can see how in the dude's mind he's going 'ok, she's cool chatting about stuff that's more than JUSt business.' Never said I see how that means she's ready to talk about him kissing her vagina, for God's sakes. Fuck.

Pretty lady is considered friendly if they are people who know each other, which is the case since he does know about the divorce. So she makes a normal response for that, since they know each other.

"Well, maybe I can talk a bit more than just business then." Well, yeah, I think that could be fine, may not have been her intention, but ah well. "Well, lets tell her I want to kiss her vagina". NO.

I am not sure what you are trying to say. I know you can see the conversation as not purely business. But that is not a justification AT ALL for anything, since this is so far away of "not purely business".

 

[Rocket Scientist]

He ain't the only journalist in town.

If you go back to my other posts you will see I am referring to a post that stated she could have been scared to lose his services and therefore didn't tell him his behavior was inappropriate. If you don't wish to contribute to the actual conversation, posts like this are a waste of time.

 

[Gbraga]

I understand that. But he's already calling her pretty lady at that point. Wouldn't you advise her to keep it strictly pro then?

If a waiter comes up to you and says 'Hey! Welcome to Captain D's! How are we doing today?' that is pure business. It's not really an invite to start talking about your divorce unless you are interested in taking the conversation to a more personal level. So I'm just saying that I can see how in the dude's mind he's going 'ok, she's cool chatting about stuff that's more than JUSt business.' Never said I see how that means she's ready to talk about him kissing her vagina, for God's sakes. Fuck.

Jaffe, you may not be necessarily wrong, but you're not making a point at all, then.

You're basically saying she was ok with not being a robotic conversation, like usual PR back and forth, but you also agree what he said can't be justified, so why are you even talking about it? Not trying to censor you, just understand, what is the point you're making here? If it's not ok to say "I'll kiss your vagina" just because she talked about her divorce, why is this even a point that needs to be made? So what if she wasn't keeping it professional from the start? Did she continue to talk about her personal issues and opened up after he started with his weird talk? No. She may have wanted more than just a professional talk, maybe she wanted a casual friendly talk, but it doesn't mean anything at all.

I get your point about it not being harassment and her not being a victim, even though I disagree completely, but in this case I really don't get what you're trying to say.

 

[Devolution]

I understand that. But he's already calling her pretty lady at that point. Wouldn't you advise her to keep it strictly pro then?

If a waiter comes up to you and says 'Hey! Welcome to Captain D's! How are we doing today?' that is pure business. It's not really an invite to start talking about your divorce unless you are interested in taking the conversation to a more personal level. So I'm just saying that I can see how in the dude's mind he's going 'ok, she's cool chatting about stuff that's more than JUSt business.' Never said I see how that means she's ready to talk about him kissing her vagina, for God's sakes. Fuck.

You keep posting things, not understanding the implications or logical conclusions to what posting them is. Not keeping something so strictly business is not an invitation for where he went, you're saying as much now, so I keep wondering what you're even arguing at all? You don't agree with anything he did, yet she still has the onus of chiding him or saying certain things to keep him from going there. It does not compute.

 

[Ravensmash]

Pretty lady is considered friendly if they are people who know each other, which is the case since he does know about the divorce. So she makes a normal response for that, since they know each other.

"Well, maybe I can talk a bit more than just business then." Well, yeah, I think that could be fine, may not have been her intention, but ah well. "Well, lets tell her I want to kiss her vagina".

I am not sure what you are trying to say. I know you can see the conversation as not purely business. But that is not a justification AT ALL for anything, since this is so far away of "not purely business".

To be fair, I don't think David is saying that it's a justification. In fact, he's said the exact opposite has he not?

 

[Rocket Scientist]

Also, he may enjoy the game, but not cover it out of spite after she turns him down, for real. But, getting her fired/demoted/seen as less in her bosses eyes might be a decent charge for him as well. That's not out of the realm of possibility. Things have not been covered in newspapers because of petty BS like that. I see no reason why it wouldn't happen in the games press.

You seem to be discussing something entirely different than what we started about.

 

[Pickles the Firecat]

I understand that. But he's already calling her pretty lady at that point. Wouldn't you advise her to keep it strictly pro then?

If a waiter comes up to you and says 'Hey! Welcome to Captain D's! How are we doing today?' that is pure business. It's not really an invite to start talking about your divorce unless you are interested in taking the conversation to a more personal level. So I'm just saying that I can see how in the dude's mind he's going 'ok, she's cool chatting about stuff that's more than JUSt business.' Never said I see how that means she's ready to talk about him kissing her vagina, for God's sakes. Fuck.

Bruh...what is your point? Because when you say:

I'm just saying that I can see how in the dude's mind he's going 'ok, she's cool chatting about stuff that's more than JUSt business.'

And follow it up with:

Never said I see how that means she's ready to talk about him kissing her vagina, for God's sakes

You aren't saying anything. Like at all. "He could have read that as a cue to talk about more personal shit" yeah and he didn't. You know that he didn't. So who cares? What does it matter? What's your point?

 

[JDSN]

This thread (now) is about: People should not be assholes.
I agree, but people have right to be assholes and I will fight for that right for the them till the end.
You are making disservice to real harassed people around the world.

People have the right to call out those assholes, for example, what happened in that convo was harassment and its foolish that you imply that it isnt.

Honestly, I think Jaffe would be the kind of boss who would ask the person why they didn't come to them directly about the harassment earlier instead of letting it spiral out of control. And even then I don't see that question being one that's meant to guilt-trip.

And when he starts pointing out "the signals" what then? Its an incredibly vague concept that I have no idea why he brought it up, but what if he does bring it up? Someone misinterpreting the way she acted might be one of the reasons why she handled this the way she did.

 

[NotLiquid]

I'm not saying Jaffe is a sexist asshole, but a whole lot of sexist assholes sure like to turn the tables on women and ask why they didn't act the way they "obviously should've" when you have all the information and look at it in 20/20 hindsight.

So yeah, I can totally see a boss being shown that conversation and reacting the way Jaffe is. "Oh, he's being dumb, but why didn't you tell him to stop?"

Honestly, I think Jaffe would be the kind of boss who would ask the person why they didn't come to them directly about the harassment earlier instead of letting it spiral out of control. And even then I don't see that question being one that's meant to guilt-trip.

 

[Gbraga]

This thread (now) is about: People should not be assholes.
I agree, but people have right to be assholes and I will fight for that right for the them till the end.
You are making disservice to real harassed people around the world.

Freedom of speech goes both ways, you know? He has the right to be an asshole, she has the right to be offended by it, GAF has the right to say he shouldn't be an asshole, he has the right to keep being an asshole and the cycle continues.

This is utterly pointless.

 

[Nephtis]

Because:

a- she has every right to and it would have made anyone feel better to put this guy in his place.

b- I think it's very fair to read the conversation and see how he COULD have gotten the idea that while she was not into his advances, she was not bothered by them and thus he was going to keep trying. I don't like how the net has immediately labeled this guy as wrong in every sense of the word WITHOUT seeing that very real possibility (the possibility being that he-or anyone else- could have read the situation poorly). And so NOW if she is complaining (which I don't even know if she is, fyi) I think it's fair to say to her 'hey, check how you communicated with this tool- perhaps next time- if this did bother you- there are some things you could do differently' and I think it's fair to say that to her without it meaning I'm 'blaming the victim'.

c- AKA- it's not always black and white, as much as it feels good and easy and righteous to say 'ZERO TOLERANCE! IT IS ALWAYS BLACK AND WHITE WHEN IT COMES TO THIS SORT OF THING'.

David

ps. are we becoming friends?!?! Oh my god! I am so happy!!!!!!!!!!!!

David, I think the best thing to do in this situation is simply admit that you are wrong. I don't think you intentionally were trying to make excuses for him, but you screwed up in trying to convey your message. I will agree with you that not all matters are black and white, but in this case it is pretty obvious this was not a friendship where they talk like this on a regular basis.

I think she should've said something - I don't know if she chose not to with the hopes that a) he would drop it, or b) he will continue so she can go ahead and post it. In my opinion, these matters should be handled on a personal level first, and if that doesn't work then by all means go public.

There is absolutely no excuse for his behavior, but in some cases I think publicly bringing this stuff out before trying to handle it on a more personal level first really can have far more negative consequences for both the victim and the perpetrator than it should. I don't think he should get off easy though, don't get me wrong.

 

[Prophet Steve]

To be fair, I don't think David is saying that it's a justification. In fact, he's said the exact opposite has he not?

That is why I do not get what is point here is.

He may have, even though it is inappropriate, saw it as a sign to justify that comment, since she talked about personal stuff?

It kind of feels like he is saying to me: "Well yeah, it is super inapproriate, we all know that, but you know, he might could have had a tiny opportunity here to justify this behavior."

Because otherwise I am not sure at all why he brings this up.

 

[spekkeh]

Has anyone considered the possibility that he just really likes to kiss vagina, hmm?

Anyway, agree with David

By the way, if you've not seen the unedited version, it's here:

http://i.imgur.com/kQ6XlXZ.png

Only a fool would read this and think she was into this guy. BUT you'd also have to be a fool to read this and NOT see her friendly acknowledgements of/joking about some of the horrifically vulgar things that he is saying.

This is not me 'blaming a victim' as a) I don't really see a victim here and b) I don't forgive what the guy did (it was terrible) and say him being vulgar and inappropriate was her fault. But I do think she should have made her response more clear as while it doesn't read like she's interested in this creep (not by a long shot) it also doesn't read like she's just keeping things pure business.

And for the dick who felt I was saying that her mentioning her divorce was a signal that she wanted him to flirt- wow, you missed the point. I never said that and that was not my point. My point was that she was that by mentioning something as personal as her dealing with her divorce she was opening the conversation to a more personal level when she probably needed to keep it pure business (especially since he started flirting with her in his very opening line, making his intention to NOT be pure business clear).

David

David

He felt friendly with her and was trying to sex her up in a really... nonsexual way. The way he did it was quite shameful and it's probably good he got exposed. Harassment? Nah. Men try to persuade women to sex since the beginning of time. He didn't seem to be using power to get her to agree.

 

[Mental Atrophy]

He ain't the only journalist in town.

For any journalists out there reading this deep into the thread, I suggest publicly coming out and letting independent female developers know that if they're a casualty of this sort then you will give them free publicity on your platform to accommodate any potential damage made by your peers/competitors.

 

[runnin_blue]

I'm not saying Jaffe is a sexist asshole, but a whole lot of sexist assholes sure like to turn the tables on women and ask why they didn't act the way they "obviously should've" when you have all the information and look at it in 20/20 hindsight.

Can you give your two cents to my argument that she could have easily walked away from the conversation without being offensive?

It's not about telling women what to do, it's about what's the simplest, most humanly logical thing to do.

FFS.

 

[V_Arnold]

Agree but then why joke back with him about some of his vulgarities ('shadow boxing? Not for texting...ZING!')

That is the thing though, people are vastly different in how they react to stressful situations. Some play the "get out ASAP" way, some just sits there afraid, not saying a word. Some get angry, violent. Some try to play it out with jokes.

Now that you have seen her reaction to it (trying to manage the situation while not escalating it), and have seen that it was an unfruitful attempt at that, since he kept on pushing. And yet, I do not see how it is her fault or how it matters that she could have handled it differently...if she was a different person.

 

[Necromanti]

When practicing what you preach goes wrong. Makes me think his excuses are bull.

Considering that those videos were uploaded two years ago, and the fact that his brother took his own life last year...
As uncomfortable as it is to say it, it makes his excuses seem emotionally exploitative. (Which isn't to say that it hasn't had an effect on him.)

 

[Devolution]

Can you give your two cents to my argument that she could have easily walked away from the conversation without being offensive?

It's not about telling women what to do, it's about what's the simplest, most humanly logical thing to do.

FFS.

I think it's pretty messed up that it's obvious who harassed who and some people are stuck on chiding her about it. Pages upon pages on "how could she have handled this better." Really. Really. Great narrative there.

 

[Jito]

K

 

[Prophet Steve]

Has anyone considered the possibility that he just really likes to kiss vagina, hmm?

Anyway, agree with David



He felt friendly with her and was trying to sex her up in a really... nonsexual way. The way he did it was quite shameful and it's probably good he got exposed. Harassment? Nah. Men try to persuade women to sex since the beginning of time. He didn't seem to be using power to get her to agree.

Since when does using power have to do with anything. He is harassing her, not forcing her, we know that.

He constantly makes comments about having sex with her and those comments are being completely ignore and he escalates.

 

[docbon]

Probably shouldn't go there, Jito.

 

[Gbraga]

That is the thing though, people are vastly different in how they react to stressful situations. Some play the "get out ASAP" way, some just sits there afraid, not saying a word. Some get angry, violent. Some try to play it out with jokes.

Now that you have seen her reaction to it (trying to manage the situation while not escalating it), and have seen that it was an unfruitful attempt at that, since he kept on pushing. And yet, I do not see how it is her fault or how it matters that she could have handled it differently...if she was a different person.

Exactly what I feel, thank you for doing a much better job than me in making that point.

I'm actually one of the "go fuck yourself" people, but she clearly is not, and not because she chose not to be this way, it's her personality, that's exactly why we shouldn't blame the victim for not acting in a certain way.

As others have said to deffend the opposite point, "it's not black and white".

It's ridicously convenient to just assume the person you're talking to is the kind of person that would tell you to go fuck yourself if they're bothered by it and keep your bullshit.

 

[runnin_blue]

I think it's pretty messed up that it's obvious who harassed who and some people are stuck on chiding her about it. Pages upon pages on "how could she have handled this better." Really. Really. Great narrative there.

Thank you Devolution for completely ignoring all my previous posts. I think the guy is a douche ad infinitum. He shouldn't have said that shit and she should have walked away.

If you don't quote me properly, it looks to me like you are just crusading. I don't want a war of words please (honestly), just saying.

 

[JDSN]

stuff

It would be good for you to remove this. No need to get personal.

 

[EdibleKnife]

Can you give your two cents to my argument that she could have easily walked away from the conversation without being offensive?

It's not about telling women what to do, it's about what's the simplest, most humanly logical thing to do.

FFS.

I will say that there are LOADS of things she could have done. Simplicity, logic and the best course of action probably get pretty jumbled though when confronted with a blatant sexual advance from a business partner on what you thought was gonna be a simple exchange. There probably wasn't a pamphlet on her desk saying, "Do this when a journalist references your crotch during a conversation..." She just had to do what she felt was the best thing to do at the time: ignore and try to get back to the topic.

 

[Devolution]

Thank you Devolution for completely ignoring all my previous posts. I think the guy is a douche ad infinitum. He shouldn't have said that shit and she should have walked away.

If you don't quote me properly, it looks to me like you are just crusading. I don't want a war of words please (honestly), just saying.

I didn't ignore all your previous posts. My point is that energy is being spent on telling a victim how to handle herself when everyone acknowledges he's at fault. It's quite the contradiction don't you think?

 

[JesseEwiak]

I think it's pretty messed up that it's obvious who harassed who and some people are stuck on chiding her about it. Pages upon pages on "how could she have handled this better." Really. Really. Great narrative there.

This is the 'evil women gave a guy a phone number, so they deserve to be texted for weeks' thread all over again.

In a perfect world, maybe she could've made another decision. She made the decision, that at the time, was best for her, personally and professionally.

 

[NTIETS13A_Superiority]

I think it's less to do with people being arseholes, and more to do with acknowledging people will be arseholes and how to potentially deal with said situation.

Im genuinely enjoying this debate, from both sides.

That is good for people that feel uncomfortable when faced with one of them. Assholes can suck ass.

 

[Riposte]

Just going to repost this since Jaffe showed up:

...

I think maybe people want to say what he did isn't unforgivable, wrong, but not lynch worthy, but they (e.g., Jaffe) are going about it in the worst way. When you try to explain circumstance, you make it sound like you are shifting blame. Doing it aggressively makes this even worse.

If you want to others to keep perspective then instead of saying she could have prevented something that is ultimately his doing, it should be said that the error he made was a human one and not one which resulted in great harm - something that can be apologized for in words.

 

[RawNuts]

I didn't ignore all your previous posts. My point is that energy is being spent on telling a victim how to handle herself when everyone acknowledges he's at fault. It's quite the contradiction don't you think?

I see piss comin', I move.

 

[NTIETS13A_Superiority]

Freedom of speech goes both ways, you know? He has the right to be an asshole, she has the right to be offended by it, GAF has the right to say he shouldn't be an asshole, he has the right to keep being an asshole and the cycle continues.

This is utterly pointless.

I never said otherwise. Just that do not be suprised if most do not care about what happened here.

 

[Mental Atrophy]

I think it's pretty messed up that it's obvious who harassed who and some people are stuck on chiding her about it. Pages upon pages on "how could she have handled this better." Really. Really. Great narrative there.

My problem with beating this drum is like... What if bridge construction workers didn't unionize and instead just waited for the owners to do the right thing? I think we should be empowering victims alongside being critical of offenders, and also doing whatever we can to ameliorate a situation as a third-party. To go along with that, I also don't like how some people here think this exchange should've been dealt with privately, because that only obscures the problem and incorrectly absolves us of finding solutions. And if anybody is actually taking a chiding tone when criticizing a victim, they're a douchebag too.

 

[voodoopanda]

There's a million and one things she could've maybe done that might or might not have stopped this guy from saying quite as many gross things to her as he ultimately did. There's one thing this guy could've done: not said any of that gross crap in the first place.

In the end, we only have one thing, which is what actually happened. And what actually happened is this guy saying a bunch of blatantly gross stuff to a woman in a semi-professional setting.

 

[suzu]

She tries to steer it away, but the guy kept right on going. How oblivious can you be? Eeesh. The onus is on him.

 

[runnin_blue]

I didn't ignore all your previous posts. My point is that energy is being spent on telling a victim how to handle herself when everyone acknowledges he's at fault. It's quite the contradiction don't you think?

I guess?

A LOT and I mean A LOT of people, pretty much everybody in this thread has said that he was completely out of order. While other people are also saying that she could have easily walked away from the situation.

I would like to see you admit this very trivial fact that, yes, she could have walked away.

It is not admitting that she had any wrongdoing in this situation whatsoever. It is simply stating what she could (and probably should) have done.