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LTTP: Dark Souls 2 - eh, perhaps I should have played this before Bloodborne
- Thread starter TheOfficeMut
- Start date
storafötter
Member
Yeah thats the overall balanced impression I have gotten so looking forward to playing it soon.
mickcenary
Member
Its savagery is justified by its truth. I've never agreed with a post on Gaf more.
This right here, especially the bold, needs to be heeded. I feel like the most stalwart DS2 defenders really don't know why the other games in the series are so heralded and loved from a purely mechanical standpoint. The input, animation, precision, responsiveness is all just so much worse in DS2, regardless of the FPS you're running.
DS2 simply isn't cut from the same quality cloth as its bros, but I still put 150 hours into it. A shitty, ill-executed Souls game is still very decent.
The best instance is Dragonslayer Armour -> Grand Archives entrance. That was great.
Melkezadek
Member
I really thought it was some kind of trap, the floor would crumble or something like that. Couldnt believe there was a bonfire 100 meters away from one another.
TheOfficeMut
Unconfirmed Member
I got to The Lost Bastille again but this time through using the pirate ship from the Wharf. I have to say it's a much better area now. My first impression of this place was absolutely terrible when I approached it from the front after The Pursuer fight.
Now I'm fighting Lisa Trevor in the map Sinner's Rise. I died. Bleh.
Now I'm fighting Lisa Trevor in the map Sinner's Rise. I died. Bleh.
Clear
CliffyB's Cock Holster
Yeah, but it can be boiled down to: "Not exactly like DS1 = bad." Which isn't a position that can be defended objectively.
There are so many great ideas introduced in DS2 (particularly SotFS) which should have been followed up on in DS3, but sadly it wasn't to be.
I have anti-GAF opinions...
DS2 is my most played Souls game. I don't have any complaints about it and found it quite memorable.
DS3 I burned through, enjoyed it, but don't really recall much about it.
Bloodborne I've played through and while I found the combat to be quite good, the overall level design I found to get bland after awhile and it lacked longevity due to lack of build diversity. (Still a 9/10 in my book, just prefer Souls).
DS2 is my most played Souls game. I don't have any complaints about it and found it quite memorable.
DS3 I burned through, enjoyed it, but don't really recall much about it.
Bloodborne I've played through and while I found the combat to be quite good, the overall level design I found to get bland after awhile and it lacked longevity due to lack of build diversity. (Still a 9/10 in my book, just prefer Souls).
Primethius
Banned
Tbh, I could ignore most of DS2s faults but not its lack of atmosphere.
It looks like a cheap imitation of an actual Souls game. DS3 kept going "remember that part from DS1" but still managed to carve out it's own identity with the levels and atmosphere then DS2 ever did.
When I think of DS2, all I remember is overly bright areas without so much as a hint of oppressiveness in them. The cheap imitation factor far outweighed any sense of actual bleakness of the world you were in and the largely dull looking levels and areas meant that an integral part of the Souls games was lost in DS2.
It looks like a cheap imitation of an actual Souls game. DS3 kept going "remember that part from DS1" but still managed to carve out it's own identity with the levels and atmosphere then DS2 ever did.
When I think of DS2, all I remember is overly bright areas without so much as a hint of oppressiveness in them. The cheap imitation factor far outweighed any sense of actual bleakness of the world you were in and the largely dull looking levels and areas meant that an integral part of the Souls games was lost in DS2.
Are you going to respond to all the people asking why you're killing all the enemies until they don't spawn in every area? Seems like that'd be a massive drag and negatively effect your opinion.
Theslammer
Member
I played Dark Souls 2 this year and had a lot of fun, but the shortcomings are glaring after spending so much time on Bloodborne. The level design is vastly inferior until you get to the DLC, which has impeccable design, especially Sunken King with all the rising and falling buildings you can activate. While there are tons of weapons, many are clearly superior to others or just feel like the next step up from an older weapon, while Bloodborne had very unique weapons that I could spend a whole game building up. Each playthrough of Bloodborne, I've used different weapons because so many are great at their own thing. And then the Old Hunters DLC added even more of them. In DS2, I would ditch some of the older weapons quickly. Some of the later weapons seemed like they might have more variety, but I think more of the variety comes from whether you want to do magic, melee or archery as your primary focus. Weapon wise, there were a ton more memorable weapons in Bloodborne and so many were so freaking fun.
Level design, though, geez, Black Gulch was literally just a straight line with enemies in the way and a short drop on the right for a secret and some other short secret on the left. Heide's Tower of Flame was a simple A-to-B path with a boss that wasn't that interesting, and one short side path to a new area. Belfry Luna is just walking up a couple flights of stairs with plain square rooms. There were clearly some areas that were a step above others.
It had some cool inclusions. I liked the Pharros mechanisms and the Branch of Yore for secrets. The bosses in the DLC were far more interesting. And the 4 player coop was a blast. For as many criticisms as I had, it's a legitimately fun game that I'd still recommend.
Level design, though, geez, Black Gulch was literally just a straight line with enemies in the way and a short drop on the right for a secret and some other short secret on the left. Heide's Tower of Flame was a simple A-to-B path with a boss that wasn't that interesting, and one short side path to a new area. Belfry Luna is just walking up a couple flights of stairs with plain square rooms. There were clearly some areas that were a step above others.
It had some cool inclusions. I liked the Pharros mechanisms and the Branch of Yore for secrets. The bosses in the DLC were far more interesting. And the 4 player coop was a blast. For as many criticisms as I had, it's a legitimately fun game that I'd still recommend.
pete_townshend
Banned
I started it up a few weeks ago and I was reeeeeaalllly struggling with getting any enjoyment out of DS2 until I installed the mod that fixed the controller deadzone issue. Combat felt so sluggish and I had trouble making progress.
100% improvement after tweaking to get back closer to the feel of DS1. I'm really enjoying the game now.
100% improvement after tweaking to get back closer to the feel of DS1. I'm really enjoying the game now.
TheOfficeMut
Unconfirmed Member
Because that's how I enjoy playing it and no it does not affect my opinion because I've played other games this way and still enjoyed them. I enjoy powering up my character early on so that I can have an easier end game.
To be more clear I only wiped the map of enemies in Heide's Tower of Flame and the Fallen Giants map.
I just got done beating Lisa Trevor and now I'm roaming Huntsman's Corpse.
Strange as even if you don't grind out areas in Souls games you'll end up OP by the end of the game regardless, whatever floats your boat I guess, sounds like it'd ruin the game and be a complete drag to me.
TheOfficeMut
Unconfirmed Member
I don't enjoy getting killed so frequently and easily and I don't like to just run by enemies.
Who said anything about running past enemies? Grinding to over level would take the difficulty out of the game and make it boring, where's the fun if there's no challenge?
And as someone who likes all the games, I've never understood this. Are you just playing at significantly lower than 25 ADP or something?
The only change that really got me is how long you can be stunned by attacks in DaS2 and how slow the healing animations are, even at high ADP. I never noticed any different in responsiveness, though?
Isn't this 99% of the time just because bosses drop Bonfires now? Bloodborne has the same issues with the Forbidden Graveyard --> Byrgenwyrth Lanterns, as well as the two at the end of Cainhurst, for example-- yet I never see those used as evidence of why Bloodborne is bad.
Sanctuary
Member
One of the worst things about this too is that they didn't even bother to remove any of the sconces that were no longer needed after the major downgrade, almost as a kind of reminder of how it was actually intended to look like. More than likely though they just didn't give a shit and left them in. There's literally only a single area in the entire game where they matter.
Why the hell is ADP there in the first place? Sorry, removing what was already there and forcing the player to "buy it back" isn't in any way adding diversity to the game, which was their bullshit excuse. ADP is one of the worst offenders to the gameplay, because dodging is so important in this series. Most people aren't going to waste their first few levels to build up ADP, and casters eventually get some agility through ATT anyway. The movement and swing animations are just "off" too compared to the previous two games. You eventually adjust to it, but it's pretty fucking jarring initially.
eot
Banned
I think most of it is right.
The people who think DS2 is the best one in the series must value entirely different things than I do. Fine if people don't notice how much worse the animations look, or aren't bothered by it; all things considered it's a rather subtle thing. What I don't get is how people overlook the limp bosses, the uninspired level design and the relentlessly dull enemy encounters. There are a few bosses I enjoy in DS2, but hardly any areas from the base game. In my head it occupies the same space as the second half of DS1, or most of HL2, which is that when I think of an area I kinda want to skip it and move on to the next one. DS1 has tons of areas that I enjoy playing through time and again, but DS2 is summed up by areas like Heide's Tower of Flame, which is utterly pointless to fight your way through properly and has a garbage boss at the end.
Ganondorfo
Junior Member
Its difficult to be a 8/10 game in a franchise where there are a lot of masterpieces. Every appreciation thread of Dark Souls 2, it always gets the struggle to be compared to Bloodborne, Dark Souls 1. It never gets the chance to be appreciated as its own product.
ASilentProtagonist
Member
Jumping from excellence to mediocrity will do that
Ah, alright. I feel for you because the game is seriously not very good, but Incidentally that's one of the few areas I liked, it felt clever.
Also I don't get why people are bashing OP for approaching Heide's Tower like that, I don't know if they're willfully reading it as "haha I prefer to grind" instead of realizing that the area has some of the worst enemy placing in the series and is a pain in the ass to traverse. Hell, I think it's the only map in all of Souls where I straight up ran past every enemy because dealing with all of them every time was insufferable.
Killing them all until they stop spawning (garbage system by the way, but hey I guess it's useful here) sounds like a logical way to deal with it. Oh and the game is so good that this very map has a boss who tends to kill himself in the first 2 seconds! So great.
pretty done
Member
Yep, Heides in Scholar is basically amateur romhack levels of enemy placement. Not sure how people are ok with levels designed like that.
Because they know DS2 blows but they're trying to be unique snowflakes saying the worst game is their favorite. I've learned it's better to not even try to talk to DS2 superfans, they refuse logic. Like the #1 fan above with the huge post who said if you just put 5 points into ADP your roll will be back to where it was in 1 lmao
These people probably never played DS1/3/BB if I had to guess.
How is the game clearly having clunky and unresponsive gameplay, bad animations, bad level design saying "Not exactly like DS1 = bad"?
TheOfficeMut
Unconfirmed Member
...
This is getting annoying. I enjoy playing the game this way and I enjoy grinding. I have not gotten rid of every single enemy. I enjoy challenge but not an overwhelming amount which is what it would be if I didn't level up my strength enough.
Accept that this is how I like to play and get past that. If I didn't do this I'd have an even worse opinion. But to be fair I'm enjoying the game more now that I'm at Huntsman's Corpse than I did in the earlier maps. Lost Bastille also became considerably more enjoyable when I went in through the pirate ship.
I mean yes, it's a really bad stat, but it was the only thing I leveled until I hit 100 Agility and then I never had the control issues people these threads claim to have.
What, with the Heide Knights? You only have to worry about them if you're going for Cathedral of Blue.
That's not really fair, is it? I went straight from DaS1 to DaS2 and I like both, though of course DaS1 is better.
eot
Banned
I think BB >> DS2, but you're not entirely wrong. Grab attacks in BB are garbage get (and too many enemies have them) and the overpowered dodge lets them away with a lot of things design wise that they wouldn't in Souls games. Personally I think the mechanics are too lenient and that makes the combat less satisfying.
DaciaJC
Gold Member
I would agree. I think DeS is still worth playing today for its unmatched atmosphere and its fantastic level design (which DaS3 comes pretty close to equaling outside a couple of areas), but just about everything else was improved upon in later entries.
Pretty much. Another example would be Oedon's Tomb => Oedon's Chapel.
eot
Banned
I think DS3 has too many bonfires, but it's not nearly as bad as DS2. A place like Earthen Peak has three bonfires. Compare that to Sen's, which has one well hidden bonfire (I think EP tries to mimic Sen's). Having them after bosses doesn't make a big difference either way. DS1 always gave you a homebone.
As for Bloodborne, the spawning lamps are disappointing mostly because so many of the bosses are dead ends, not because the game has too many lamps (most areas only have one main lamp).
Sanctuary
Member
I hope you realize how ridiculous that sounds though for people playing it for the first time, especially when it was brand new? Pretty much no one put a bunch of points into ADP initially aside from the select few who were testing it out across the first few days. So most people were getting tagged due to suffering with shitty i-frames on their dodges. I actually had less of an issue much later on, but I was also playing a caster for my initial run and didn't need to dodge quite as much. Eventually my ATT was so high that I ended up with a "good" dodge again, but it took forever.
In terms of "control issues" or whatever you're talking about, the combat was seriously floaty compared to the previous two games. It took a while to adjust to.
Well, the ones that aren't at dead ends usually tend to be right next to another lantern.
Don't play Souls games at launch, problem solved.
But seriously I did agree that it's a bad stat.
You're annoyed I'm questioning your odd play style that you put up on a forum for us to discuss? Ok...
Just pointing out the obvious problem with what you're saying, don't mind that you dislike the game at all.
TheOfficeMut
Unconfirmed Member
Just beat the Chariot boss. Was the most fun I've had fighting a boss so far. I went in completely blind carrying 40,000 Souls. I was standing at the fog entrance wondering if it was going to be a boss fight or not. Luckily my gut instinct told me to just run ahead and that the answer will become clear.
The fight had a lot of issues though, mainly to do with the camera. Hiding from the skeletons and chariot in each nook was a pain.
The fight had a lot of issues though, mainly to do with the camera. Hiding from the skeletons and chariot in each nook was a pain.
TheOfficeMut
Unconfirmed Member
You keep harping on my play style when I am telling you that this is how I get the most fun out of it, also conveniently ignoring that I said I only cleared out enemies from two areas so far and that was hours ago.
What's funnier is that you think farming Souls is an odd playstyle, as if grinding has never been a common thing with people.
pretty done
Member
You can just sprint through to the switch and dodge through the spokes coming through the wheels. Trying to hide from the chariot in the little nudges can lead to some really dumb deaths.
That boss is probably the only decent "puzzle" boss in the series. One of the rare times a DS2 boss is actually enjoyable.
TheOfficeMut
Unconfirmed Member
I'm surprised I didn't die, actually. Was successful on the first try.
eot
Banned
Agreed, and I think that it would be a better game if it cut some of those lamps. But it's different from DS2, because that game peppers bonfires throughout each zone, which ruins the pacing of the levels. You get to a new bonfire long before you need one. In BB those stacked lamps don't really have any enemies between them, they just surround transition areas.
WhiskerFrisker
Member
This is hilarious because whenever I read about threads regarding DS2, defenders always champion the game accommodating for different play styles. People enjoy grinding. Get over it.
M0nochromatic
Member
I wish the backlash against it wasn't so vitriolic, considering Dark Souls 3 didn't have a lot of the neat things it did do wonderfully.
I keep going back to 2 because of it's build diversity and openness. I loved the idea of hexes and pyromancy as magical quality builds. Bonfire Ascetics were a creative way to refight bosses and get gear you otherwise couldn't.
It was also the last souls game with the Wanderers Set.
I keep going back to 2 because of it's build diversity and openness. I loved the idea of hexes and pyromancy as magical quality builds. Bonfire Ascetics were a creative way to refight bosses and get gear you otherwise couldn't.
It was also the last souls game with the Wanderers Set.
TheOfficeMut
Unconfirmed Member
Just beat the Skeleton boss and now I'm in Harvest Valley? Anyway, that was the easiest boss fight so far. I can see where Bloodborne got its influence for that three-person boss battle in the forest.
eot
Banned
I think that's reaching, they're not similar at all except the number three, and skeleton lords has one health bar for all three lords and all their adds, so it's not really three.
righthandmouse
Banned
I want what you are eating/drinking/smoking. ds2 is the best souls.. ever
Morrigan Stark
Arrogant Smirk
You didn't even explore the environments before declaring them boring! Holy shit lol.
When you're using guides and complaining, then, yeah?
It's so full of shit though. A lot of repeated points, a lot of which are simply false. I didn't bother with it at first because this guy's on my ignore list.
No, the BB platinum doesn't require grinding, but it requires you to purchase every item in the store even if they're weapons you would never use on your build. I didn't have the Platinum for the longest time because of that, and I only got that last trophy because I wanted that free theme they were giving to Platinum owners. Otherwise I'd still be Platinum-less despite having hundreds of hours across several characters. Trophies are meaningless bullshit.
Grinding isn't what is taken into account when we talk about "different play styles", especially since you can grind in any of the game so that's irrelevant to specifically DS2. Anyway, good for the OP if they enjoy grinding, but it's still extremely bizarre to complain about a game being boring when all you do is grind without venturing even a bit further into the level.
Kudo
Member
You get enough Echoes to buy each and every weapon at least twice from doing Chalice dungeons, I guess it's true if you're already set on one weapon you don't want to "waste" echoes on others but normally you'd think people want to try them all out.
I agree trophies are meaningless bullshit, in this case it gives certain degree of viewpoint though as there's literally not a single "unnecessary" trophy in Bloodborne, most games are not like this though.
And to begin with the original argument used against Bloodborne was that it's just good if you play it only once or twice, yet there's not a single person I know on my PSN friendlist that doesn't have it platinumed, which requires 3 playthroughs, so I think it definitely holds up for 3 and more with lot of variety to offer.
Sanctuary
Member
...and avoid all gaming sites, social media sites and especially Youtube where you'll most likely run into spoilers.