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LttP Dark Souls II: Scholar of the First Sin: Why is the opening so bad?

saturnine

Member
Really nice reading first impressions of someone who seems to be enjoying the game!

One thing I didn't like was the lack of braziers. This would have been the perfect place to bring back the torch mechanic, but they didn't. Is it ever going to come back or will it remain forgotten outside of the tutorial and No Man's Wharf?
...
What torches?
Maybe you missed the fact that you can light up a torch at a bonfire? Because the game absolutely expects you to use all the sconces in the gutter to light up the place.

About the lost sinner : there's two small rooms surrounding the arena where you can set fire to some oil, which illuminates the boss room.
 

Kinsei

Banned
Really nice reading first impressions of someone who seems to be enjoying the game!


Maybe you missed the fact that you can light up a torch at a bonfire? Because the game absolutely expects you to use all the sconces in the gutter to light up the place.

About the lost sinner : there's two small rooms surrounding the arena where you can set fire to some oil, which illuminates the boss room.

Oh, those were sconces. I thought they were broken dart traps...

Ah, I was wondering what that oil was for. I didn't realize I could set fire to things other than sconces with my torch. I should go back and do that just to see what the boss arena looks like lit up.
 

K' Dash

Member
It sounds to me that you're trying to validate dropping the game again, honestly if you're not feeling it, just turn it off and play something you like.

I had this problem with Bloodborne, I fucking love the all the Souls games, but for some reason I just could not get into that game, even though I was making good progress, I just didn't feel it, seemed to me like a rejected Souls game, or a bad fan made hack, after Killing the Spider and getting the blood moon I just quit, theres nothing wrong with that, for some people BB is the GOAT, and I respect their opinion, it is just not for me.

It doesn't really help that DS2 is the weakest entry, but still a really, really good game.

As I said, if you're not into it, just don't waste your time and play something else.
 

Kinsei

Banned
It sounds to me that you're trying to validate dropping the game again, honestly if you're not feeling it, just turn it off and play something you like.

I had this problem with Bloodborne, I fucking love the all the Souls games, but for some reason I just could not get into that game, even though I was making good progress, I just didn't feel it, seemed to me like a rejected Souls game, or a bad fan made hack, after Killing the Spider and getting the blood moon I just quit, theres nothing wrong with that, for some people BB is the GOAT, and I respect their opinion, it is just not for me.

It doesn't really help that DS2 is the weakest entry, but still a really, really good game.

As I said, if you're not into it, just don't waste your time and play something else.

How did you get that from my recent post? Just cause I didn't like the Royal Rat Vanguard?
 

Kinsei

Banned
I just had a productive play session. I made it through two amazing areas. made friends with a scorpion, and fought three bosses that ranged from okay to amazing. I'll post my in depth thoughts on everything tomorrow.
 
I just had a productive play session. I made it through two amazing areas. made friends with a scorpion, and fought three bosses that ranged from okay to amazing. I'll post my in depth thoughts on everything tomorrow.

If you kill the female scorpion go talk to him again for a ring, another ring from him when you kill
a big spider later one
 

DemWalls

Member
Oh, those were sconces. I thought they were broken dart traps...

Ah, I was wondering what that oil was for. I didn't realize I could set fire to things other than sconces with my torch. I should go back and do that just to see what the boss arena looks like lit up.

Oh, so you fought the Sinner in the dark? Good, good. As I said, with the room illuminated is a very pedestrian fight.
 

Kinsei

Banned
The shaded forest was a really great area. Based on the name, I was expecting there to be ghosts, but the way they were done here completely subverted my expectations. I was expecting something like the ghosts from the first game but instead they decided to completely fuck with me. This was my reaction when I encountered my first ghost. "Oh hey, there's a player just standing there. I guess they must be going through their inventory to use a repair powder or something. WHAT THE FUCK IS HAPPENING?"

The area that gives this place it's name was really well done. Slowly trekking through the fog, darting from screaming tree to screaming tree in order to lure the enemies into traps was really fun. I wonder if there's anyone that has gone through this place without realizing they can use the trees to their advantage. That must make this place 100x harder. Anyway after getting lost for a bit I managed to find some treasure chests and my way out.

The next area was a nice little breather before the boss. It was nice and open with some enemies that weren't too difficult, yet hit like a freight train if you weren't careful. There were also laughing pots scattered around that inflict curse. They weren't a problem but I can see them being place quite deviously in future areas. I have to ask, what does curse even do in this game? I've been inflicted with it a few times but never noticed any negative effects.

After a bit of exploring and meeting a scorpion man (who I hadn't figured out how to talk to yet) and some guy in a wheelchair that told me I wasn't dark enough (How did he get to that ledge?) I reached the boss. Based on all of the petrified lion men around I was totally expecting this boss to be some sort of gorgon-esque monster. The start of the fight helped to reinforce that with only part of her body. I figured as soon as I hit her a giant snake body would pop out of the ground. Naturally I was totally wrong. I absolutely loved the fight against Najka. She had so many ways to attack that you had to keep track of, but it never felt frustrating. I managed to take her out on my first attempt, but it was by the skin of my teeth. When she cast homing soul arrow I thought I was done for but I somehow managed to dodge them all and find the time to chug some estus.

I pretty much skipped the Door of Pharros and headed straight to the mine so I'll have to go back and explore that the next time I play.

There's not much to say about the camp outside the mine, other than to point out how silly the soldiers walking animations were. I actually died here because I was laughing at them. I go back and make quick work of the soldier sand miners and reach what I assume was the entrance to the mine. "Wait, why does that door have spiders on it? ...Oh." Well at least I know what happened to the mine.

After fighting through an army of giant spiders I was surprised to find myself at another boss so quickly. This boss was a total joke, but it felt necessary. Since fighting groups plays such a large role in the game (including in the areas after the boss) that they really needed a mandatory large group boss as a skill check to make sure you have the skills needed to proceed. It's for this reason that I can't really hate this boss. That being said outside of the fight taking place in a chapel which gave me Fool's Idol flashbacks, there was nothing memorable about the enemies themselves.

Heading through to the next area and seeing that it wasn't just a mine that was overrun by giant spiders, but instead an entire mining town was really cool. The spell casters firing the slow moving homing shots led to some nice combat challenges. The people that became hosts for the spiders were deliciously terrifying, and the spider army + nest before the boss were great. The only thing I didn't really like about this area were the headless basilisks. While seeing a creature missing it's most defining feature is really unsettling, knowing that these were what have been petrifying people disappointed me. I was really looking forward to some sort of gorgon boss or enemy.

The boss of this area was fun but reeked of wasted potential. The concept of the fight was solid, forcing you to put yourself in harms way in order to deal damage is a nice twist on a series that rewards very careful play, but the execution was lacking. It's just so easy to bait out Freja's sweeping breath attack that leaves the other head totally vulnerable for a long amount of time. Had the move either allowed the other head to do something to defend itself, or not left it as vulnerable then I thing the fight would have been something truly amazing, but the way it is now just makes it merely okay.

After grabbing the third major souls and the key I did a bit of backtracking. I figured out how to talk to the scorpion man in the Shaded Woods, depetrified a few more lion men, and headed back to the Grave of Saints to fill in all of the Pharros contraptions. I thought that maybe activating them all would open up a secret, but it didn't. I took out my frustration on the rat that lets you join the covenant. He's dead now.

I had my second invader when I was heading through the spider nest. I'm now 2/0! I wonder if I can get through the game without dying to human invaders.

Was that guy in the wheelchair talking about darkness the same one I met earlier in the game? If so then he sure gets around.

I forgot to go and light the oil outside of the Lost Sinner arena. I'll have to do that the next time I play.
 

Kinsei

Banned
Of course the key I got after beating Freja didn't open up the door in the water room. There's now three regular doors that I really want to open. The door to the left of the Last of the Giants arena, the door by where the wheelchair guy was, and the water room door.

I feel like I skipped a ton of the Door of Pharros but after wasting so many stones at the crypt I was hesitant to use the one I found there. The boss here was pretty bad. Once you get past the toxic the fight becomes way too easy. I wonder if I could have skipped it if I was still part of the rat covenant.

I then decided to head back to Lost Bastille cause I remembered that I had forgotten to go down the ladder just after the sentinels fight. I used the lockstone I got back at the Door, and bam new area! The place is called Belfry and I have to ring a bell? Yeah I see where this is going. I joined the covenant, fought another human invader, and made it to the boss all without any trouble. Boy am I glad that I forgot about this ladder because I barely won with my current stats and gear, I would have been destroyed had I tried to fight them during my first visit to LB. Bringing back the Belfry Gargoyles and adding more of them to the fight was a brilliant idea. Due to this games focus on group fights this boss fits in perfectly.

This probably wasn't intentional, but the NPC invader afterwards really reminded me of the Capra Demon. Running around him and then rushing up the stairs in order to avoid the dogs brought back some very bad memories haha.

This is probably really dumb, but after getting Ricard's Rapier I went back to the king door in the forest with it equipped to see if it would make the door open. I mean, a prince is a future king right?

After doing all of the exploring I could think of I finally headed back to Huntsman's Copse. Boy was this area a mixed bag. It started off all well and good, there were a lot cool enemies, the giant basilisk was incredibly freaky, and it seemed to be quite open with multiple paths. The problems didn't start until I made it to one of the bosses (the chariot) and died. I found out the hard way that enemies can hit you as you're going through the fog doors in this game. This wouldn't be so bad but as far as I can tell there was no bonfire near the boss or shortcut I could open which meant I had to repeatedly go through all of the axe and whip guys over, and over, and over. Normally this would be fine but that boss was so awful that the game was really trying my patience. The first couple of times I died I had no clue what I was even supposed to be doing and then the next few times I died it was because what they expect you to do is damn near impossible without a shield. I eventually cheesed the first phase by using my i-frames to roll through the spikes sticking out from the wheels and just rush down those damn necromancers. Thank fuck the second phase was piss easy.

After all of that frustration I'm greeted by a guy that tells me to go home. Fuck you too game.

After this I went back to the Cathedral of Blue (I've been going there after every boss to see if I could join the covenant) and the guy finally let me join!

The second route through Huntsman's Copse was thankfully much less frustrating. The boss was ultimately pretty forgettable outside of one thing.

skeleton-wheel.jpg


Motherfucker.

Anyway, after reaching Harvest Valley I decided to explore the foggy section of Shaded Woods to see if there was anything I missed. This turned out to be a great idea as I got a few items and met Vengarl. I also tried to figure out how to reach the item in the Najka arena but that was to no avail.
 

Kinsei

Banned
The Harvest Valley/Earthen Peak section was really fun. I'm really glad I ended up saving this place for last though as this area and the next one are easily the hardest ones I've been through so far. For this area it wasn't so much the combat (although trying to kill the pyromancers without ranged weapons was a challenge), but rather navigation. I got turned around quite a few times in this place, usually resulting in me walking into a group of enemies while thinking I was backtracking. Oh and I encountered my first mimic here. I was starting to think that they weren't in the game and stopped hitting chest. Thank goodness I accidentally hit this one while i was fighting an enemy. The bosses of this area also followed the trend of the combat not being too terribly tough. The Covetous Demon just kinda flopped around and died, and Mytha, while cool, was just kinda there. You'd think with how big of a role poison played in the area that it would also come into play during one of the bosses. I suppose there was the ring of poison around Mytha's arena, but it might as well have not existed.

Next up was the Iron Keep. I have three words for this area: Those. Fucking. Archers. This are would have been pretty good if it wasn't for them. Using the traps of the keep to kill enemies was cool, the main soldiers were decent enough (although terribly easy to backstab), and one of the bosses was great.

Speaking of said great boss, I actually almost skipped it. I took the middle path and reached the Belfry Sol bonfire before going through the Smelter Demon's fog gate. Thank goodness for the completionist in me driving me to go back and check out that fog door. The Smelter Demon was another A+ boss up there with Najka, Pursuer, Lost Sinner, and the sentinels. Up to this point I was genuinely curious about why life gems were included in the game. They were certainly useful, but they never really felt necessary. This boss made them necessary. Using life gems to counteract the bosses fire aura was really clever, and the actual fight was really fun too. It took me a few tries to finally take the boss down, but I was enjoying every second of it. The fight that it, not the run back (fucking archers).

I really wish I could heap as much praise on the next boos, but it was kinda boring. I get what they were trying to do, an actual fight with a creature similar to the Dragon God, but it just didn't work. All of it's attacks were slow, easy to dodge, and left it open for ages. The way it left it's fists on the ground for so long was particularly jarring. It didn't feel like I was fighting a dragon, it felt like I was fighting a generic video game boss. I suppose if you were to judge it on spectacle alone (which I suspect is the reason it's in the game) then the fight is decent. It's definitely something you's show off in a trailer/fight in front of your friends to try and sell them on the game.

After the fight I learned that there were multiple endings from whatever that thing was and not only did I find the Iron King DLC, the door to it actually opened. I'm not going to try and tackle the DLC until I'm about to face the final boss though.

After I warped back to Majula I noticed some guy I had never seen before sitting by the well. I guess he's just there for people that don;t realize that they can survive the fall with the silvercat ring?

So it seems that I'm rapidly approaching the end of the game. Will it be obvious when I reach the final area so that I know to go back through all o the old areas using a guide to find anything important that I missed?

Oh and one last question. What order was the DLC released in? That's the order I'd like to do them. I'd google this but I don't want to spoil anything about them.

I can't imagine beating the Executioner's Chariot without using the small alcoves to get out of it's way. Good job dude.

Thanks!
 
Personal experience here, as a first time Souls player, Forest really helped me get in the swing of things. I still think the graveyard is a genius decision in the original, but it killed me so many times when I played it that I quit. In hindsight the blame is on me, but Forest worked it all out.

I also think Heide is actually a good beginning area, though that's a bit because of the art.
 

Van Bur3n

Member
Oh and one last question. What order was the DLC released in? That's the order I'd like to do them. I'd google this but I don't want to spoil anything about them.

Sunken King, Old Iron King, and then Ivory King.

Brace yourself for Old Iron King.
 

Kinsei

Banned
I didn't end up getting to play much until late last night, which ended up being a mistake. So many times I said to myself "I'll quit after I beat the next boss" but then just kept on playing. I ended up not turning off the game until 5AM. Needless to say, I was having a lot of fun last night.

First up was Drangleic Castle which totally feels like a final area. Enemies and bosses from all over the game are present here, there are almost no one on one fights, and everything seems to be building up to you fighting the king. The area itself was quite great outside of a few moments. The highlights for me were the fight against four ruin sentinels, the fight against the chariot horses (oh hey, they actually make a good mini boss), the horse head knights before the Looking Glass Knight, and the Looking Glass Knight itself. There were a few lowlights though. Did the double dragonrider fight really deserve their own health bars? There was also the bullshit hitboxes on the mimic. I thought it was weird that the mimic was so obvious so I figured it had to be a trap. I figured the smart idea would be to get behind it but when it did it's grab attack as it was waking up I was sucked to the front of the chest and instantly killed. I was also disappointed that I couldn't kill the queen. After talking to the ghost in the entrance hall, seeing the picture of her that induces curse, and seeing the silent hill monstrosity up the elevator (WHAT THE FUCK?) I figured that the queen needed to die. I suppose it would be a bit too similar to the first game if killing her changed the castle and/or unlocked a secret boss fight, but at the very least they should have let me kill her even if nothing happened.

Looking Glass Knight was a fun one on one (mostly) duel that totally made up for the disappointing "boss" earlier in the castle. All of the mirrors around the castle caught my eye and I thought they seemed a bit strange. It turns out they were some nice subtle foreshadowing of this guy. You may have noticed that I've been loving the boss fights against skilled warriors like Pursuer and Smelter Demon and this is no exception. It's just so fun and satisfying to constantly be up in the face of a skilled warrior dodging through and around their attacks while getting your own counters in. I can't imagine these fights being nearly as enjoyable with a safety net (shield/magic). One thing I didn't like about this fight was how little the looking glass actually played a role. The boss only managed to summon a single phantom and I quickly disposed of it.

I wonder if the boss was using the mirrors throughout the castle to spy on me (and other visitors/intruders). I don't really care about the overall plot of the Soulsborne games, but the little things like the stories of the individual characters, bosses, and areas really intrigue me.

Oh and I met the wheelchair guy again. He says we'll meet again so that's something to look forward to I guess. Since he was hidden both here and in Shaded Woods then I wouldn't be surprised if the third encounter with him is in an area I've already been through.

Up next was the Shrine of Amana and I was immediately struck by how beautiful it was. The singing of the Milfanito combined with the dancing of the bugs around the water monsters was breathtaking. It felt so lonely but at the same time there was a sense of comfort there. Had there been a sitting gesture I probably would have spent 5-10 minutes just sitting there watching and listening.

There's this saying that the more beautiful something is, the more likely it is to kill you and this place perfectly embodied that. This place kicked my ass so hard but I eventually made it through. Not having a ranged weapon or a shield made the sorceresses and their homing spells very hard to deal with. I had to perfectly time my dodges to get through them and reach the one attacking me, which then immediately put me into range of the next one. Combined with the other enemies scattered about it made this the most stressful area in the game for me. It made for a nice contrast with the atmosphere of the place.

I absolutely adore the design of the boss, but not so much the actual fight. The concept is solid but it has the same problem that Freja did. It was way too easy to bait out attacks that left the boss defenseless for an absurd amount of time. I souls not be able to run in and use all of my stamina on attacks with no repercussions. Especially not this far in the game.

The Undead Crypt was a nice little breather area. The bell and ghost gimmick was pretty cool and the boss was another fun one on one duel. I'm left wonder what the giant zombie in the room with the king's corpse is for. Judging from all the blood stains there's some way to get it to attack you, but I hacked away at it for a while to no avail.

Naturally after getting the king's ring I immediately headed back the first king door I saw and... It's fucking nothing. Well I suppose that I did get another fragrant branch, but I was expecting something a bit more.

The next door I headed through was the one in Castle Drangleic that led to the Throne of Want. I really enjoyed the boss here. As you might imagine I focused all of my effort on the Throne Watcher since she took more damage and barely touch the Throne Defender. This of course led to her being restored to full health and forcing me to basically fight three bosses. I managed to barely pull through on my first try and felt super proud of myself. I guess I wasn't supposed to take them on yet though since I couldn't proceed past their arena.

To end my play session I went through the final king door and rested at the bonfire just beyond it.

Are there any vendors I could have missed?I I'm currently sitting on 200 thousand souls and I'm at a point where I've bought everything from the vendors available to me and I don't want to level up anymore as the difficulty is just right. It will just seem like such a waste if I end up dying without retrieving them on my way back to a boss or something.
 

Lork

Member
Are there any vendors I could have missed?I I'm currently sitting on 200 thousand souls and I'm at a point where I've bought everything from the vendors available to me and I don't want to level up anymore as the difficulty is just right. It will just seem like such a waste if I end up dying without retrieving them on my way back to a boss or something.
Try visiting Straid in the Bastille or Ornifex in Tseldora for boss soul weapons if you haven't already. You also may or may not have known that the armor merchant in Majula updates his inventory as you make progress through the game, so his shop should be full of new duds if you haven't been clearing it out regularly.
 

Kinsei

Banned
Try visiting Straid in the Bastille or Ornifex in Tseldora for boss soul weapons if you haven't already. You also may or may not have known that the armor merchant in Majula updates his inventory as you make progress through the game, so his shop should be full of new duds if you haven't been clearing it out regularly.

I'll check the armor vendor. I killed Straid (I thought the "dark" that the guy at the entrance to Huntsman's Copse was talking about meant that there was a system similar to character tendency in Demon's Souls) and I haven't met Ornifex yet.
 

Lork

Member
I'll check the armor vendor. I killed Straid (I thought the "dark" that the guy at the entrance to Huntsman's Copse was talking about meant that there was a system similar to character tendency in Demon's Souls) and I haven't met Ornifex yet.
Haha, of all the people to murder on a whim, you chose Straid? I guess he must have made the mistake of refusing to talk to you because of your stats, heh.

If you haven't met Ornifex at all, you might want to revisit the Shaded Woods. The part with all the lion men, not the foggy part. Although that part has another vendor that you might not have met, albeit one who doesn't sell anything particularly expensive or cool, to my memory.

Edit: Actually, there's a way to talk to NPCs you've killed in this game, so maybe try revisiting Straid's hangout and see if there's anything for you there now that some time has passed. Make sure you have at least 3 INT and Faith before blowing a bunch of souls to talk to him if that was a problem before, though.
 

Kinsei

Banned
Haha, of all the people to murder on a whim, you chose Straid? I guess he must have made the mistake of refusing to talk to you because of your stats, heh.

If you haven't met Ornifex at all, you might want to revisit the Shaded Woods. The part with all the lion men, not the foggy part. Although that part has another vendor that you might not have met, albeit one who doesn't sell anything particularly expensive or cool, to my memory.

Edit: Actually, there's a way to talk to NPCs you've killed in this game, so maybe try revisiting Straid's hangout and see if there's anything for you there now that some time has passed. Make sure you have at least 3 INT and Faith before blowing a bunch of souls to talk to him if that was a problem before, though.

Oh, I bought all of his spells and rings before fighting him. I also got the current sword I'm using from him. I killed him cause I didn't want anything else I could trade boss souls for at the time and he seemed like a dick.
 

RevenWolf

Member
Oh, I bought all of his spells and rings before fighting him. I also got the current sword I'm using from him. I killed him cause I didn't want anything else I could trade boss souls for at the time and he seemed like a dick.

Oh ok, still funny because he stocks up new stuff as you progress through the game (most vendors do actually)

This was a fun read! I'm glad you're enjoying the game, also great job on the throne defender and watcher!

*edit: and yeah he's a total dick lol.
 
Oh, I bought all of his spells and rings before fighting him. I also got the current sword I'm using from him. I killed him cause I didn't want anything else I could trade boss souls for at the time and he seemed like a dick.

He laters gains more spells from DLC bosses
 

Kinsei

Banned
These last few areas haven't been very good. Aida's keep looked cool, but there was barely anything to do there and the boss sucked. Dragon Aerie was the same (minus the boss cause there was none).

Dragon Sanctuary was really cool and I'm hoping that the fight against the ancient dragon at the end is fun. That's something I'll try on New Game+.

The Giant Lord boss was total shit. I couldn't see what it was doing for almost the entire battle so my "strategy" was to just chug estus after every hit.

I noticed that the king had the same bugs around his corpse as the giant so I went and entered his memory too. I assume he's referring to crowns I can get in the base game and not the DLC, right?

I also had the idea to go and see if I could enter the memory of the dragon that died in the arena where I fought Freja. I knew I was on the right track as soon as Navlaan appeared. I'm starting to get real sick of his shit.

I guess I'm pretty much at the end of the game, huh? The Throne of Want appears to be my next destination and that just screams final area. There's even what looks to be a fire keeper hut just past where I fought the Throne Watcher and Throne Defender. I guess at this point I'm going to go back through every area with a guide in order to see what stuff I've missed.
 
These last few areas haven't been very good. Aida's keep looked cool, but there was barely anything to do there and the boss sucked. Dragon Aerie was the same (minus the boss cause there was none).

Dragon Sanctuary was really cool and I'm hoping that the fight against the ancient dragon at the end is fun. That's something I'll try on New Game+.

The Giant Lord boss was total shit. I couldn't see what it was doing for almost the entire battle so my "strategy" was to just chug estus after every hit.

I noticed that the king had the same bugs around his corpse as the giant so I went and entered his memory too. I assume he's referring to crowns I can get in the base game and not the DLC, right?

I also had the idea to go and see if I could enter the memory of the dragon that died in the arena where I fought Freja. I knew I was on the right track as soon as Navlaan appeared. I'm starting to get real sick of his shit.

I guess I'm pretty much at the end of the game, huh? The Throne of Want appears to be my next destination and that just screams final area. There's even what looks to be a fire keeper hut just past where I fought the Throne Watcher and Throne Defender. I guess at this point I'm going to go back through every area with a guide in order to see what stuff I've missed.

Do you have the DLC? now its time to jump it
 

Jinroh

Member
Scholar of the First Sin is awful, it has an even worse beginning than the standard version of the game due to its linearity. Those damn rock statues everywhere....
 

meliboeus

Neo Member
i've basically (re)played every single souls over the last two years, so when sotfs went 14.90 a couple of weeks ago i decided to pull the trigger. and i'm constantly like "boy, what the hell were they thinking?". terrible world and character design. late game gets kinda better, though.

pls give me ds and dks remasters.
 

Strings

Member
Yeah, I just finished killing it (I didn;t know it was classified as a boss when I first made that post and I want to kill every boss on this playthrough). That fight sucked.

Going to go through the effort of unlocking Darklurker? Easily the best boss in the base game.
 

Kinsei

Banned
Going to go through the effort of unlocking Darklurker? Easily the best boss in the base game.

I beat it before I fought the dragon. It was a really great boss. I'm going to kill Vendrick tomorrow and then write up my thoughts on the three endgame optional bosses.
 

eot

Banned
I don't especially like DS2 but last giant is actually a cool boss, but that won't be apparent until later.
 

JackelZXA

Member
I like DS2 but I feel like most of the paths could be skipped and we'd have a tighter game. The Sinner is really the only old one that feels in any way useful and relevant to ds2. I'd rather have a more fleshed out dranglaec castle than the old iron king and tseldora paths.

The Gutter is cool as well and I like shaded woods, but the game is just too big to have a real focus. Maybe going to dranglaec after lighting the one primal bonfire, and then stripping some enemies out to make it more even to that part of the game would help the difficulty.

Having the first part of the game be "seek vendrick" and then the second half being "seek the old ones and their crowns" would have probably been a better paced game, but that's a big level of second guessing. I also feel like alot of the bosses felt like minibosses with health bars and fog gates, and that if half of them were just world enemies it would have allowed the actual bosses to feel more meaningful.

I'd also rather have multi-stage bosses than having two bosses in a zone. Maybe moving smelter demon and toning him down so that he was "form one" of the old iron king, and then when he's defeated he melts away the room you fight him in, falls in the lava, and re-emerges as ichorus earth (I'd throw some debres over that middle lava pit too) It would have retconned some lore, but I think that would have been a cool moment, as the smelter demon form would be the actual fight, and ichorus earth being so easy but a psyche out would possibly balance the fight out. (This is assuming the hp values are evened out a little in this scenario) I feel like it's really easy to go on forever with this stuff though. (The endgame boss gauntlet feels kind of awkward and not really deserving of the endgame.

I think placing huntsman's copse between things betwixt and majula could have been interesting...it's not that hard in SotFS and feels like an area that'd work as a first area, and I kind of like the idea of having the invasion covenant boss available from the complete start of the game) And I dunno, maybe harvest valley and earthen peak being retooled to be a lead up to brume tower (instead of being awkwardly sandwiched where they are, have that be where you end up when you use the serpent statue, and then the elevator there takes you up to the intro room of brume tower, and while we're at it make the covetous demon be a ds3 style miniboss where you still get a soul but he's not behind a fog gate?) I also wouldn't mind if iron keep was moved to maybe be in a memory? Touch the crown, get warped to iron keep, defeat OIK and get his crown that way? While i'm rambling, wouldn't it be if fume knight was the last boss instead? Again, lore retcon, but the game didn't have enough focus and emphasis placed on the f-yeah bosses.
 

Kinsei

Banned
I'm pretty happy with all of the secret stuff I managed to find without any outside help. From what I can tell the only major things I missed were Ornifex (and I have an excuse for that), the end of the Pate & Creighton story, and the hidden giants in the Black Gulch.

My excuse for missing Ornifex is because I thought that the lion that had the key was only there to make you waste a branch fragment. Seeing Ornifex was great. The Painted World is one of my favorite areas in the base game of Dark Souls so seeing an enemy from there brought a smile to my face.

I don't know how I missed the giants in the Black Gulch. I found the drop down to the door but somehow completely missed that I could keep going down further. II thought it was strange that they expected you to homeward bone out if you hadn't found the key to that door yet. Anyways, I really loved the fight with the two giants down there. Despite me hating both of the giant bosses (Although I guess it's technically a single boss that you fight twice) I absolutely loved these giant enemies.

With my new key I found the wheelchair guy for the third time and gained access to the three secret dungeons (Calling them dungeons is being overly generous though). These places were completely bland and forgettable so I don't have much to say about them. I would have much preferred if this was a single big underground labyrinth where you actually had to hunt for the three fires you have to light in order to face the boss. Just to say something nice about these, I did like the ghost like sorcerer enemies and seeing Havel again was cool.

Darklurker was the first of the three endgame optional bosses I fought and I absolutely loved it. Rather than go the "everything attack kills you in 1-2 hits, but they're super easy to dodge" route that they went with the other two bosses, they made it an actual fight. Darklurker has a ton of attacks but (at least from what I saw) they don't deal an obscene amount of damage outside of the explosion (which has a long wind up time and a long recovery time giving you ample time to get away or heal if you do get hit so that's fine). Eventually the Darklurker splits into two and the fight goes from pretty good to amazing. The way the attacks of the two Darklurkers combine is really great. For example the exploding ball attack is super simple to dodge when the Darklurker is a single being. All you have to do is run around until you hear the explosion. Then after it splits you can have one doing the exploding ball and the other doing a move that limits your movement like the fire balls. That was really clever and I would have loved to see more of it throughout the game. The only thing I disliked about this boss was it's lack of health. The split phase is so good, but it's over way too quickly. I'm hoping that this is something that NG+ can remedy.

Next up I tackled the Ancient Dragon. Talk about a total snooze fest. Sure it was technically difficult because everything killed you in one hit, but every attack was so overly telegraphed that the only real risk of dying (after figuring out how to dodge the flying flame attack) was falling asleep. hit back leg four times, roll. Hit back leg 4 time then run away. Repeat until the boss is dead. I suppose it could be worse. It could have had so much health that it takes over 40 minutes to kill (Fucking Fatalis).

Vendrick was pretty much the same (except I could just barely survive a single hit). I'm glad I fought him though since I'm now rocking a pretty sweet crown.

I'm now off to the start of the Crown of the Sunken King DLC!
 

Clear

CliffyB's Cock Holster
I'm pretty happy with all of the secret stuff I managed to find without any outside help. From what I can tell the only major things I missed were Ornifex (and I have an excuse for that), the end of the Pate & Creighton story, and the hidden giants in the Black Gulch.

Are you sure you haven't missed more than you think? There's kind of a lot of hidden stuff in pretty much all the late-game areas; for example did you bother lighting all the torches in Aldia's? Doing the drops off the zip-lines in Aerie? Amana has a bunch of lockstones and other bits and bobs?

You do seem like a high-skill player but there's lot of detail in there if you want to try and be completionist; for example the fragrant branches require a specific order of use in order to get all the loot.

The thing I like most about SotFS are these little bits of detail; all the uses for fire (fully lighting every torch in the gutter is one of my favourite bits), unlocking npc's for boss fights -even if I don't summon them, the lockstones, hidden rooms, the tons of red phantoms particularly in NG+...

Also, I didn't see any mention of Belfry Luna and the fun gargoyle boss fight there, or the two rat-themed bosses in Pharros? I assume you got them all, but all these side areas kinda aggregate into a fair amount of content and loot.
 

Kinsei

Banned
Sinh is how you do a dragon boss! That fight was super fun.

I'll post my full thoughts on Crown of the Sunken King once I find the three bonfires I missed.

Are you sure you haven't missed more than you think? There's kind of a lot of hidden stuff in pretty much all the late-game areas; for example did you bother lighting all the torches in Aldia's? Doing the drops off the zip-lines in Aerie? Amana has a bunch of lockstones and other bits and bobs?

You do seem like a high-skill player but there's lot of detail in there if you want to try and be completionist; for example the fragrant branches require a specific order of use in order to get all the loot.

The thing I like most about SotFS are these little bits of detail; all the uses for fire (fully lighting every torch in the gutter is one of my favourite bits), unlocking npc's for boss fights -even if I don't summon them, the lockstones, hidden rooms, the tons of red phantoms particularly in NG+...

Also, I didn't see any mention of Belfry Luna and the fun gargoyle boss fight there, or the two rat-themed bosses in Pharros? I assume you got them all, but all these side areas kinda aggregate into a fair amount of content and loot.

I meant major things like bosses, hidden vendors, secret areas and so on. I don't really care about the weapons I missed. I'll just get them on a NG+ playthrough.

I posted about Belfry Luna and the two rat bosses. I also lit the torches in Aldia but I forgot to go back and open doors with the key. Thanks for the reminder.
 
Sinh is how you do a dragon boss! That fight was super fun.

I'll post my full thoughts on Crown of the Sunken King once I find the three bonfires I missed.



I meant major things like bosses, hidden vendors, secret areas and so on. I don't really care about the weapons I missed. I'll just get them on a NG+ playthrough.

I posted about Belfry Luna and the two rat bosses. I also lit the torches in Aldia but I forgot to go back and open doors with the key. Thanks for the reminder.

The good thing about SotfS version is some key elements to access hidden areas are no longer hidden or hard to reach.
 

Kinsei

Banned
First up was Shulva and this is a contender with No Man's Wharf as my favorite area in the game so far. I really loved the emphasis put on the environment itself in this DLC. The game shows you this early on with the switches that raise the towers that deal damage to the first two groups of enemies and it completely changes how you (or at least I) approached the combat. The area also branched out with a lot of twists and turns that led to me getting lost a few times. My absolute favorite moment in this area was actually after I died after entering the Dragon Sanctum. I hadn't found the second bonfire (I'm honestly glad that I didn't) and was sad that I had such a long way back to my bloodstain but then I looked and realized that I had unknowingly been opening up a bunch of shortcuts my first time through the area. One problem that I have with the game is it's lack of shortcuts (I'll get into this more after I beat the game) so this brought a huge smile on my face. It saddens me to think that I could have completely missed this had I found the other bonfire.

Up next was the Dragon Sanctum and oh boy was it great at inducing panic (Y'know, the worst thing to be feeling when playing a Souls game). It starts off simple enough with a few open rooms to teach you the enemies that you'll be fighting down there but once I reached the first spike room I freaked the fuck out. I figured the body of the ghost knight had to be nearby, then I pulled another one, and another one, and you get where this is going. I was panicking so hard that I completely missed the ladder so I ran back to the beginning of the room and dropped down the hole to those bugs. The bugs were easy so I could use this as a time to recollect my thoughts and figure out a plan of attack for the room above, right? Nope. One of the ghost knights chased me down the hole so needless to say I died there. The best part was, the spike room isn't even difficult if you can stay cool under pressure. The game played me like a god damn fiddle and I loved every second of it.

I think this place has too many bonfires too.The first is fine as it's hidden and gives players a reward for exploring while not ruining any shortcuts and the third third lets you skip riding the elevator if you die to the boss, but the second really didn't need to be there, Seriously, what is the point of the second bonfire? It's placed after those imperfect things (which are super fun to fight in groups btw) so it's not meant to be used in order to refill people's health estus for them, and it's placed right before the shortcut back to Shulva (and you have to open that shortcut) so it's not a checkpoint either. It doesn't even work as a warp point if you missed the dragon stone since you don't have to run past any enemies if you head there via the shortcut. Is there some sort of secret down there that I missed? It's the only thing that could justify the existence of this bonfire.

I'm going to skip over the boss for now because before fighting her I went through the Cave of the Dead. This area was basically a less pretty Black Gulch without the cool hand snakes and petrify statues instead of poison statues. Since most of my enjoyment of Black Gulch came from the visuals I didn't really enjoy this place very much. The bosses of this cave got my blood boiling like no other boss fight in this game has managed to do. On one of my attempts I was doing really well. I had killed the swordsman and was about to kill the archer when Not-Havel came up and backstabbed me which killed me in one hit. I let out quite the string of expletives when that happened. At first glance a fight that's essentially just three invaders might seem quite lazy, but I actually really liked the fight. Not for what it is now, but for what it will be in the future. Let's face it, some time in the future the servers of the game will go down and people will never get a chance to experience the feeling of getting completely screwed by multiple invaders. This fight will let those people get a sense of what it was like.

After that little detour I went and fought the first main boss of the DLC, Elana. Mos of my time spent in this fight was spent running in circles while constantly yelling "Fuck" in my head. Everything was going fine and then she summoned Velstadt. I actually thought he had as much health as he did during his boss fight so I completely ignored him. I went quite a while avoiding him and hitting Elana until I accidentally hit him and discovered that it was feasible to take him out before resuming my attack on Elana. During this time I went through nearly all of my estus and most of the life gems I had equipped. After this the fight got significantly easier but she still got me to go through the rest of my estus and a few more life gems. She was nearly dead and I thought I had it in the bag but then she summoned Velstadt again. At this point I was out of the healing items that I had equipped and was nearly dead myself. I had resigned myself to the fact that I asn't going to take her out on my first try but I somehow managed to pull through at quite literally the last second. Both Elana and I were one hit away from death. I was chasing her down with Velstadt hot on my heels and I actually managed to kill her. That was the biggest "FUCK YEAH" moment of the game for me so far. Needless to say I thought it was a pretty fun fight.

I loved the little foreshadowing for the boss at the beginning of the sanctum. Your very first encounter with one of the witches locks you in a room with her and one of the skeleton warriors. It was a great way to try and teach you the skills that would be necessary for the boss fight.

After killing Elana it was straight on to Sinh with nothing but a bonfire and a fog door standing in your way. I absolutely adored this fight. All of it's attacks had good tells, it was fast, it hit hard (but not obnoxiously hard), and it looked so fucking cool. I felt like such a total badass running and jumping out of the way of it's dive bombs, rolling through it's attacks, and finally slaying the beast. It actually felt less like a Souls boss and more like a Monster Hunter boss. It's really odd how the dragons in the base game of both this and the first Dark Souls suck but the first (and only in the case of DS1) DLC pack of each adds in what I consider to be some of the best fights against dragons in video games.

As you can tell, I loved this DLC and I think it's well worth the $10 that they were asking for when it released. I'm super excited to get to the Crown of the Old Iron King DLC but it's nearly 3 AM so that will have to wait until tomorrow.


A couple random thoughts blow.

It's funny that the invasion squad in the Cave of the Dead was the only boss to actually kill me in this DLC.

Top 3 video game dragons
1. Alatreon
2. Sinh
3. Kalameet
 

Zocano

Member
YAAA BOIII

Shulva is the best 'Dark Souls' area outright, fullstop, no contest.
Brume Tower is a close second.
 
First up was Shulva and this is a contender with No Man's Wharf as my favorite area in the game so far. I really loved the emphasis put on the environment itself in this DLC. The game shows you this early on with the switches that raise the towers that deal damage to the first two groups of enemies and it completely changes how you (or at least I) approached the combat. The area also branched out with a lot of twists and turns that led to me getting lost a few times. My absolute favorite moment in this area was actually after I died after entering the Dragon Sanctum. I hadn't found the second bonfire (I'm honestly glad that I didn't) and was sad that I had such a long way back to my bloodstain but then I looked and realized that I had unknowingly been opening up a bunch of shortcuts my first time through the area. One problem that I have with the game is it's lack of shortcuts (I'll get into this more after I beat the game) so this brought a huge smile on my face. It saddens me to think that I could have completely missed this had I found the other bonfire.

Up next was the Dragon Sanctum and oh boy was it great at inducing panic (Y'know, the worst thing to be feeling when playing a Souls game). It starts off simple enough with a few open rooms to teach you the enemies that you'll be fighting down there but once I reached the first spike room I freaked the fuck out. I figured the body of the ghost knight had to be nearby, then I pulled another one, and another one, and you get where this is going. I was panicking so hard that I completely missed the ladder so I ran back to the beginning of the room and dropped down the hole to those bugs. The bugs were easy so I could use this as a time to recollect my thoughts and figure out a plan of attack for the room above, right? Nope. One of the ghost knights chased me down the hole so needless to say I died there. The best part was, the spike room isn't even difficult if you can stay cool under pressure. The game played me like a god damn fiddle and I loved every second of it.

I think this place has too many bonfires too.The first is fine as it's hidden and gives players a reward for exploring while not ruining any shortcuts and the third third lets you skip riding the elevator if you die to the boss, but the second really didn't need to be there, Seriously, what is the point of the second bonfire? It's placed after those imperfect things (which are super fun to fight in groups btw) so it's not meant to be used in order to refill people's health estus for them, and it's placed right before the shortcut back to Shulva (and you have to open that shortcut) so it's not a checkpoint either. It doesn't even work as a warp point if you missed the dragon stone since you don't have to run past any enemies if you head there via the shortcut. Is there some sort of secret down there that I missed? It's the only thing that could justify the existence of this bonfire.

I'm going to skip over the boss for now because before fighting her I went through the Cave of the Dead. This area was basically a less pretty Black Gulch without the cool hand snakes and petrify statues instead of poison statues. Since most of my enjoyment of Black Gulch came from the visuals I didn't really enjoy this place very much. The bosses of this cave got my blood boiling like no other boss fight in this game has managed to do. On one of my attempts I was doing really well. I had killed the swordsman and was about to kill the archer when Not-Havel came up and backstabbed me which killed me in one hit. I let out quite the string of expletives when that happened. At first glance a fight that's essentially just three invaders might seem quite lazy, but I actually really liked the fight. Not for what it is now, but for what it will be in the future. Let's face it, some time in the future the servers of the game will go down and people will never get a chance to experience the feeling of getting completely screwed by multiple invaders. This fight will let those people get a sense of what it was like.

After that little detour I went and fought the first main boss of the DLC, Elana. Mos of my time spent in this fight was spent running in circles while constantly yelling "Fuck" in my head. Everything was going fine and then she summoned Velstadt. I actually thought he had as much health as he did during his boss fight so I completely ignored him. I went quite a while avoiding him and hitting Elana until I accidentally hit him and discovered that it was feasible to take him out before resuming my attack on Elana. During this time I went through nearly all of my estus and most of the life gems I had equipped. After this the fight got significantly easier but she still got me to go through the rest of my estus and a few more life gems. She was nearly dead and I thought I had it in the bag but then she summoned Velstadt again. At this point I was out of the healing items that I had equipped and was nearly dead myself. I had resigned myself to the fact that I asn't going to take her out on my first try but I somehow managed to pull through at quite literally the last second. Both Elana and I were one hit away from death. I was chasing her down with Velstadt hot on my heels and I actually managed to kill her. That was the biggest "FUCK YEAH" moment of the game for me so far. Needless to say I thought it was a pretty fun fight.

I loved the little foreshadowing for the boss at the beginning of the sanctum. Your very first encounter with one of the witches locks you in a room with her and one of the skeleton warriors. It was a great way to try and teach you the skills that would be necessary for the boss fight.

After killing Elana it was straight on to Sinh with nothing but a bonfire and a fog door standing in your way. I absolutely adored this fight. All of it's attacks had good tells, it was fast, it hit hard (but not obnoxiously hard), and it looked so fucking cool. I felt like such a total badass running and jumping out of the way of it's dive bombs, rolling through it's attacks, and finally slaying the beast. It actually felt less like a Souls boss and more like a Monster Hunter boss. It's really odd how the dragons in the base game of both this and the first Dark Souls suck but the first (and only in the case of DS1) DLC pack of each adds in what I consider to be some of the best fights against dragons in video games.

As you can tell, I loved this DLC and I think it's well worth the $10 that they were asking for when it released. I'm super excited to get to the Crown of the Old Iron King DLC but it's nearly 3 AM so that will have to wait until tomorrow.


A couple random thoughts blow.

It's funny that the invasion squad in the Cave of the Dead was the only boss to actually kill me in this DLC.

Top 3 video game dragons
1. Alatreon
2. Sinh
3. Kalameet

1.-Second bonfire is for the hidden
Tree NPC
that grants you the ability to repair any broken gear for free. there is a hidden switch on the wall near to a hidden cave
2.-The cave of the dead is basically a Dark Chasm where Elanna came from , Shulva people didnt noticed the cave I guess, the gank squad were just a bunch of outlast who venture on the chasm right before the Bearer of the curse.
 

Kinsei

Banned
1.-Second bonfire is for the hidden
Tree NPC
that grants you the ability to repair any broken gear for free. there is a hidden switch on the wall near to a hidden cave
2.-The cave of the dead is basically a Dark Chasm where Elanna came from , Shulva people didnt noticed the cave I guess, the gank squad were just a bunch of outlast who venture on the chasm right before the Bearer of the curse.

It looks like the next time I play I'll be heading back into the DLC areas. Just to make sure, you mean the second bonfire in the Dragon Sanctum right?
 
It looks like the next time I play I'll be heading back into the DLC areas. Just to make sure, you mean the second bonfire in the Dragon Sanctum right?

No, the very second bonfire of Shulva

On the sanctum is
in a ilusory wall
just for take a break and restore your health. I think there was one on the very bottom just to walk to the boss
 
Speaking of the pretty weak start (excluding the hub area music) gotta love how the 3 old lady's are like you're going to die and lose your souls over and over again.

Also forgot about that horrible enemies disappearing after a while and the hard mode covenant.

Will say sinh the poison dragon is the best boss fight in the game but never got to the other dlcs final bosses because how boring they were and exhausting to continue into rooms with 12 people in them.

Edit: sad thing was with every incredible boss fight in those dlcs there were really boring and forgettable fights.
 
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