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[Familienoberhauptvogel]

Is it me or did this odds and ends article not say anything new?

http://magic.wizards.com/en/articles/archive/making-magic/odds-ends-eldritch-moon-part-3-2016-08-08

 

[OnPoint]

Is it me or did this odds and ends article not say anything new?

http://magic.wizards.com/en/articles/archive/making-magic/odds-ends-eldritch-moon-part-3-2016-08-08

It's not for people like us, who probably read Maro's Tumblr or discuss the interesting stuff here every day.

 

[Angry Grimace]

I'm a little surprised that Decimator of the Provinces hasn't seen much play. I'd feel like that's a card you could break in order to engineer winning on the spot.

 

[Daedardus]

Yeah, there's a lot of pricey cards in it. I had like 3/4 of the deck beforehand due to luck, so it was the cheapest avenue into a playable Modern deck for me. I picked up the Tron lands ages ago, cracked Karns and Ugins from packs/boxes, the only real heavy investments for me were the Groves and the O-stones, since I have no idea where mine might have went. $300 or so later, I had a deck. It feels awesome to have it. But that's so much money lol

Well yeah, I just built my Nahiri Jeskai deck, it's like the second most expensive Modern deck after Jund. Many of the value is luckily in expensive commons and uncommons, which allowed me to build my deck over time in small parts. I'm still two Snapcasters, two Nahiris, a playset of Colonnade and Scalding Tarns short however. But I might get my old collection back soon, I had a few Tarns and Colonnades and maybe even a Snapcaster so I'm waiting to buy those so I don't needlessly spend money.

I'm actually hoping for a reprint of Colonnade in MM17, the art is so ugly. And with Tarn looking likely to get a reprint it would be stupid to buy into them now. I kinda like their art though, but I hope the new one is better. The Khan lands were a hit or miss for me (I like Flooded Strand and Windwept Heath, but Polluted Delta is so bad). It will be hard for them to top the Misty Rainforest though, gave me the best feeling of being in a misty rainforest.

The deck is playable now though, and with all possible sideboard related cards and a few other cards I've spent more than 1000 euro on one deck alone. So it would be crazy to buy another one for more than 700 euro.

 

[OnPoint]

.

Yeah, you're making the right move. I'm a few lands and probable reprints away from a few sweet decks being complete. It just doesn't make sense to drop the cash in to complete them if the cards are so sure of being reprinted. I used to care about the arts a lot more. Now I'm just like whatever. Put a picture of a tin can on Karn and I'll pick it up if/when it's cheap so long as it does the same thing.

 

[Ashodin]

My Monday series, goblins of the multiverse, is live!

https://youtu.be/W53qCI3-Edw

 

[blindrocket]

Well yeah, I just built my Nahiri Jeskai deck, it's like the second most expensive Modern deck after Jund. Many of the value is luckily in expensive commons and uncommons, which allowed me to build my deck over time in small parts. I'm still two Snapcasters, two Nahiris, a playset of Colonnade and Scalding Tarns short however. But I might get my old collection back soon, I had a few Tarns and Colonnades and maybe even a Snapcaster so I'm waiting to buy those so I don't needlessly spend money.

I'm actually hoping for a reprint of Colonnade in MM17, the art is so ugly. And with Tarn looking likely to get a reprint it would be stupid to buy into them now. I kinda like their art though, but I hope the new one is better. The Khan lands were a hit or miss for me (I like Flooded Strand and Windwept Heath, but Polluted Delta is so bad). It will be hard for them to top the Misty Rainforest though, gave me the best feeling of being in a misty rainforest.

The deck is playable now though, and with all possible sideboard related cards and a few other cards I've spent more than 1000 euro on one deck alone. So it would be crazy to buy another one for more than 700 euro.

I think that I have all of the cards, except for Nahiri and Emrakul. I've had various builds of UWR / Twin / etc. over the last three or so years that I should have everything that shell would need. I for whatever reason just fell in love with the new Nahiri Planeswalker that I seriously want to build something with her... that is if I owned a play set.

 

[f0rk]

I wish when the Magic community got mad at the game devs it was as entertaining as Hearthstone

 

[Angry Grimace]

I wish Hearthstone was an entertaining as Magic.

 

[Schryver]

Any good articles/videos I could show a friend who refuses to bring his deck down to 60 cards? (Said he made it about 90 instead of 100+ recently lol)

 

[aidan]

Any good articles/videos I could show a friend who refuses to bring his deck down to 60 cards? (Said he made it about 90 instead of 100+ recently lol)

Teach him the fundamentals of probability?

More seriously:

Patrick Chapin on SSG: http://www.starcitygames.com/php/news/print.php?Article=12478

Frank Karsten on CFB: http://www.channelfireball.com/arti...playing-more-than-60-cards-always-a-bad-idea/

 

[Infinite Stars]

Any good articles/videos I could show a friend who refuses to bring his deck down to 60 cards? (Said he made it about 90 instead of 100+ recently lol)

Basic Probability dictates that 60 is the best. With the maximum number of copies you can run being 4/60 and assuming you don't draw any of the 4 in the opening 7, you've got 4/53. 4/53>4/83 by a pretty large margin in terms of Probability. The only real reason to run more then 60 is if you've somehow got a way to add more odds of getting the cards you want(See Kiki Chord's sideboard, where they have a bunch of 1 ofs that are effectively a 9/60 chance with 4 Chord/ 4 Evolution).

Alternatively, if he really wants to run more then 60, he needs to run 200+ for those Battle of Wits wins.

 

[Schryver]

Teach him the fundamentals of probability?

More seriously:

Patrick Chapin on SSG: http://www.starcitygames.com/php/news/print.php?Article=12478

Frank Karsten on CFB: http://www.channelfireball.com/arti...playing-more-than-60-cards-always-a-bad-idea/

Basic Probability dictates that 60 is the best. With the maximum number of copies you can run being 4/60 and assuming you don't draw any of the 4 in the opening 7, you've got 4/53. 4/53>4/83 by a pretty large margin in terms of Probability. The only real reason to run more then 60 is if you've somehow got a way to add more odds of getting the cards you want(See Kiki Chord's sideboard, where they have a bunch of 1 ofs that are effectively a 9/60 chance with 4 Chord/ 4 Evolution).

Alternatively, if he really wants to run more then 60, he needs to run 200+ for those Battle of Wits wins.

haha thanks guys

 

[keeblerdrow]

haha thanks guys

I'm curious, what's his argument for running 90?

 

[Familienoberhauptvogel]

I remember those days. Getting some new cards for your awesome tribal kitchentable deck, looking through the deck wondering what to take out, eh idk just put a land in and it's fine.
2 months later 80+ card deck.

 

[y2dvd]

Man I am giving up on EDH. Unless you are in U or G, it's like you have no chance. Hanging up my boros commander. ;(

 

[Yeef]

I remember those days. Getting some new cards for your awesome tribal kitchentable deck, looking through the deck wondering what to take out, eh idk just put a land in and it's fine.
2 months later 80+ card deck.

I go through the first half of this every time I sideboard. "I definitely want to put this, this and this in... but what the hell do I take out!"

 

[Familienoberhauptvogel]

I go through the first half of this every time I sideboard. "I definitely want to put this, this and this in... but what the hell do I take out!"

I sideboard pretty arbitrarily, I'm also a stout believer in 3 is the magical number as dumb as that is.

Man I am giving up on EDH. Unless you are in U or G, it's like you have no chance. Hanging up my boros commander. ;(

Power creep? I'm doing pretty well with Archangel Avacyn and that's with angel tribal.

 

[Daedardus]

Yeah, you're making the right move. I'm a few lands and probable reprints away from a few sweet decks being complete. It just doesn't make sense to drop the cash in to complete them if the cards are so sure of being reprinted. I used to care about the arts a lot more. Now I'm just like whatever. Put a picture of a tin can on Karn and I'll pick it up if/when it's cheap so long as it does the same thing.

I care about good art though. Luckily most of the cards in the Nahiri deck have standard good art and the ones with better art are about the same price (I prefer Ajani Lightning Helix and popping colours Vendilion Clique). Only both Engineering Explosives suck and Geist of Saint Traft Duel decks version isn't available in non-foil. Also thinking of replacing Negate with the Oath one, I still don't know what is happeningen on the Morningtide one.

That together with my obession for NM cards and being European means I spent slightly more, but I think it's worth it in the end.

I think that I have all of the cards, except for Nahiri and Emrakul. I've had various builds of UWR / Twin / etc. over the last three or so years that I should have everything that shell would need. I for whatever reason just fell in love with the new Nahiri Planeswalker that I seriously want to build something with her... that is if I owned a play set.

Nahiri is quite fun, although she's still dropping in price slightly. Might be better to wait to pick her up. If Nahiri wasn't there to replace Splinter Twin, I would still be salty about the ban. She's very much needed to keep the deck doing what it does, otherwise you would have a hard time beating the opponent. Still debating whether I should run 3 instead of all in, with the extra slot for an alternate win condition such as Geist or Batterskull.

 

[Firemind]

That's not the correct Urza's Mine.

 

[OnPoint]

That's not the correct Urza's Mine.

I don't like mine cart Yoda, Bioshock intro sphere, or the pulley'n'rope. Plus I sorta hope my opponent destroys one mistaking it for a tower at some point.

 

[Xis]

I wish Hearthstone was an entertaining as Magic.

Agreed, but I wish the Magic client (any of them) were as functional as Hearthstone.

 

[SigmasonicX]

I wonder, would this variation of Splinter Twin see play or is it automatically too weak without the ability to go infinite?

Weaker Splinter Twin - 2R
Enchantment - Aura
Enchant creature
Enchanted creature has "R, Tap: Create a token that's a copy of this creature. That token has haste. Exile it at the beginning of the next end step."

 

[Ashodin]

I don't like mine cart Yoda, Bioshock intro sphere, or the pulley'n'rope. Plus I sorta hope my opponent destroys one mistaking it for a tower at some point.

Okay I laughed

 

[Angry Grimace]

I wonder, would this variation of Splinter Twin see play or is it automatically too weak without the ability to go infinite?

Weaker Splinter Twin - 2R
Enchantment - Aura
Enchant creature
Enchanted creature has "R, Tap: Create a token that's a copy of this creature. That token has haste. Exile it at the beginning of the next end step."

It's always too weak without a special combo.

 

[Schryver]

I'm curious, what's his argument for running 90?

Just doesn't know what to take out I think. Admittedly it wouldn't help a whole lot considering his cards are mostly all terrible and there's no synergy, but it's still frustrating that he refuses to go to 60

 

[Angry Grimace]

I have no idea why the GB Delirium deck has 4 Grim Flayer and 2 Sylvan Advocate. Even a Grim Flayer mark like myself can't really fathom why you'd want 4 GF and 2 SA.

 

[kirblar]

61 cards can be correct when you have a tutor package and you don't want to cut a land or your 4xes. It's virtually the only time that's the case.

 

[Akim]

I couldn't draft this week because I have to pick my girlfriend up from the airport, so I decided to buy a Oath of the Gatewatch fatpack....for some reason. It had a Kalitas and Nissa in there so I didn't quite blow too much cash. Plus I got the sweet full art lands.

 

[OnPoint]

I bought 2 baby Jaces for about 29 a piece. I figure they won't ever dip past $20, and will slowly climb back up. I'll eventually pick up the other two for a full set, but at least now I feel slightly insulated incase there's a random spike.

 

[Mega Spooky]

I bought the same baby Jace cards. I'm getting together that Izzet Machinegun deck for game day because fuck you Bant I won't play you.

 

[Santiako]

A VERY, VERY CONDENSED HISTORY OF THE MULTIVERSE - Fantastic article detailing the story of magic so far (from the very beginning up to Eldritch Moon) in a short but comprehensive way.

 

[Familienoberhauptvogel]

I'm always surprised when discussing the new interconnected story line MaRo says there was no overarching story and cites Khans and Theros.

A) There was, told though the PWs
B) That was, judging by the 4 sets we got since, way better, the plane was the story and that was great. We'll see with Kaladesh how much that will drown out a new plane.

 

[OnPoint]

I'm always surprised when discussing the new interconnected story line MaRo says there was no overarching story and cites Khans and Theros.

A) There was, told though the PWs
B) That was, judging by the 4 sets we got since, way better, the plane was the story and that was great. We'll see with Kaladesh how much that will drown out a new plane.

I think he means they're loosely connected to the events in the blocks that preceded and followed them. And he's right. There isn't much of a direct connection given that they're using the Gatewatch as their cast of characters to connect things.

 

[Familienoberhauptvogel]

I think he means they're loosely connected to the events in the blocks that preceded and followed them. And he's right. There isn't much of a direct connection given that they're using the Gatewatch as their cast of characters to connect things.

they did that before. If you look at Sarkhan, throughout all his version he tells a story

Same with Ajani and Tezzeret. Coincedentally it's the colour changing PWs that seem to carry the most story with them.

 

[OnPoint]

they did that before. If you look at Sarkhan, throughout all his version he tells a story



Same with Ajani and Tezzeret. Coincedentally it's the colour changing PWs that seem to carry the most story with them.

You're missing the point. He's not (and I'm not) saying that there isn't a story at all. You're right in saying that Sarkhan has a story, I wouldn't ever debate that. It's that there isn't a huge, interconnected story from block to block like they're doing now with the Origins 5.

EX: Sarkhan debuts in Alara, shows up in Zendikar. Zendikar concludes and he is MIA until Khans. A whole lot of story that has nothing to do with him happens from Scars block to Theros block. Then Khans happens, involving him greatly. Now he is MIA after Khans concludes.​

However, look at how they're doing it with the Origins 5 now since Origins happened.

EX: The story preceding Battle for Zendikar brings the Gatewatch together. 4/4 members are there. Jace goes to Innistrad directly following those events, 1/4 is there, but the story still connects back to the Gatewatch this way. Things happen here, the other 3 members of the Gatewatch come in to help, and a new member is added. Next we'll follow Chandra (and others possibly) to Kaladesh. 1/5 (at least) of the Gatewatch are involved, the story is still connected.​

It's a more deliberately connected style of storytelling that they're employing now, where the central cast of characters will always be at the center of the story, even if it's just one of them. Who knows how long they'll do it this way? But it's definitely different than how they were doing it.

 

[OnPoint]

Also, the SDCC walkers are up for sale at Hasbro's website

http://www.hasbrotoyshop.com/en/htsusa/-b89010000

 

[bigkrev]

Got my order in! 115 with slow shipping is rough, but this should be an easy flip. Just a question of if to do it soon or not

 

[Familienoberhauptvogel]

You're missing the point. He's not (and I'm not) saying that there isn't a story at all. You're right in saying that Sarkhan has a story, I wouldn't ever debate that. It's that there isn't a huge, interconnected story from block to block like they're doing now with the Origins 5.

EX: Sarkhan debuts in Alara, shows up in Zendikar. Zendikar concludes and he is MIA until Khans. A whole lot of story that has nothing to do with him happens from Scars block to Theros block. Then Khans happens, involving him greatly. Now he is MIA after Khans concludes.​

However, look at how they're doing it with the Origins 5 now since Origins happened.

EX: The story preceding Battle for Zendikar brings the Gatewatch together. 4/4 members are there. Jace goes to Innistrad directly following those events, 1/4 is there, but the story still connects back to the Gatewatch this way. Things happen here, the other 3 members of the Gatewatch come in to help, and a new member is added. Next we'll follow Chandra (and others possibly) to Kaladesh. 1/5 (at least) of the Gatewatch are involved, the story is still connected.​

It's a more deliberately connected style of storytelling that they're employing now, where the central cast of characters will always be at the center of the story, even if it's just one of them. Who knows how long they'll do it this way? But it's definitely different than how they were doing it.

But they are missing the point this way. Yes Sarkhan is MIA for awhile in the meantime though the story continues with Tezzeret and after Tezzeret with Elspeth. There was a more connected storyline for awhile it was just multiple threads loosely connected.

I found this form of storytelling exciting as it left room for the plane to exist on its own merit. The rarer appearances also left room for more than incremental change.
After a plain got revealed I'd always wonder with friends which PW would be on there and why and in what form they'd return.
I also always preferred having multiple new walkers per plane with maybe 1 or 2 returning.

#bringbackkoth

 

[blindrocket]

Sold out now.

 

[Etrian Oddity]

EX: The story preceding Battle for Zendikar brings the Gatewatch together. 4/4 members are there. Jace goes to Innistrad directly following those events, 1/4 is there, but the story still connects back to the Gatewatch this way. Things happen here, the other 3 members of the Gatewatch come in to help, and a new member is added. Next we'll follow Chandra (and others possibly) to Kaladesh. 1/5 (at least) of the Gatewatch are involved, the story is still connected.​

It's a more deliberately connected style of storytelling that they're employing now, where the central cast of characters will always be at the center of the story, even if it's just one of them. Who knows how long they'll do it this way? But it's definitely different than how they were doing it.

Indeed, but so far the reactions have been pretty negative to this shallow and Sentai-driven storyline (as it should). I think the Jace-tice League derision is well-deserved, it's a very lazy and boring way to tell the story as it puts the focus entirely on them and not on the plane.

I suppose it'd be one thing if we had interesting characters for the Gatewatch. But instead, we have the five most stereotypical embodiments of the colors. More damningly, they haven't evolved, they haven't shown any character progression (excluding very minor mannerisms that don't at all affect their overall character), and the overall focus on them instead of the planes and planes' denizens themselves is terrible.

We got a brand new multicolored planeswalker in SoI for crying out loud, and she got NO attention in favor of the Gatewatch. It's shameful.

There was an overarching story, but it was a spiderweb of different threads that mixed it up and didn't shove the same cast down your throat. We went from Garruk and Liliana to Sorin and Nahiri to Elspeth and Ajani and Ashiok to Sarkhan and Ugin; none of that has happened now. The clear focus is just on the five color archetypes that make up the Gatewatch.

 

[OnPoint]

But they are missing the point this way. Yes Sarkhan is MIA for awhile in the meantime though the story continues with Tezzeret and after Tezzeret with Elspeth. There was a more connected storyline for awhile it was just multiple threads loosely connected.

I found this form of storytelling exciting as it left room for the plane to exist on its own merit. The rarer appearances also left room for more than incremental change.
After a plain got revealed I'd always wonder with friends which PW would be on there and why and in what form they'd return.
I also always preferred having multiple new walkers per plane with maybe 1 or 2 returning.

#bringbackkoth

I also liked the other way. I liked the three-set peek into a world that was different than the world before it. I liked that it had a possibly new, but usually mostly different cast of characters than the block that came before it. And I liked that seemingly unconnected events sometimes eventually wrapped into something larger. It's why I was always so interested in what Bolas was up to, and how he was going to pull his plan together.

The current initiative is to connect players/fans to the main cast of five characters, therefore we'll be following them about the multiverse, and we'll be seeing things the way they see them. I feel like Maro said this approach has been doing well for them so far on the blog (though I'm not going to search for examples), which is unfortunate for us. I personally find each of the characters they've selected to focus on boring and cliched, and their actions/motivations entirely predictable. But if story interest is at an all time high, they're going to forge ahead with it.

edit: Etrian, get out of my head haha

 

[alternade]

Man I am giving up on EDH. Unless you are in U or G, it's like you have no chance. Hanging up my boros commander. ;(

This is somewhat true, but don't give up! Competitive EDH is a slugfest of getting through counterspells, resource denial and worst of all, nerd smugness.

I have 9 decks now and the only one I can sit down with and know my chances of winning are just as high as getting hated out of the game is Azami Control. The other 8 are goofy tribal, random and fever dream idea decks. My play group is pretty varied with what they play, but for the most part is VERY streamlined, but after a while you can see when they telegraph their combo or counter and plan accordingly.

 

[ElyrionX]

Man I am giving up on EDH. Unless you are in U or G, it's like you have no chance. Hanging up my boros commander. ;(

Having fun in EDH depends a lot on your playgroup. And yeah, Boros is a terrible color combi to play in EDH.

 

[Angry Grimace]

I spent 205 dollars on super ultra mega rare beer the other day. No money for super ultra mega rare cardboard left.

 

[SigmasonicX]

Concerning whether the new storytelling method is working out, MaRo says that market research shows that people are significantly more engaged in the story now than ever. And this is not just due to them putting the main story online, since they did that for Khans block. There was a big jump in player interest in the story from Magic Origins on.

On Blogatog, there are many more questions related to the story, including complaints of how having story events on the cards spoils the online story, which I don't recall seeing with Khans block.

And you can see it even in these threads. I know the BFZ and SOI story posts have gotten more attention than the old Khans story posts. There is a lot more discussion of the story now than before--even if people are complaining, this still demonstrates that they're at least keeping up with plot points.

Concerning the idea that the focus on the Gatewatch means we won't actually get to see many new characters, I imagine that future stories won't necessarily focus on them as much as they have. Note how Saheeli is the face of Kaladesh instead of Chandra. MaRo has said that they had two Eldrazi blocks one after another to make it obvious to casual players that block stories would link and that they only have to be this obvious to show that there was a change at all. This implies that they won't necessarily have to do this again. I imagine this also applies to how Eldritch Moon had so many cards depicting the Gatewatch.

In short, Wizards feels that a lot of what they did in the story that is being complained about was necessary to make it clear to casual players that there was a shift in how they tell stories. What we have seen is not necessarily how they'll do things in the future.

EDIT: Also, added that "Condensed History of the Multiverse" article to the OP, mainly so I can remember to put it in the next OT.

 

[Familienoberhauptvogel]

It's all about the MTGCU. All being said I remain a skeptic.

Having fun in EDH depends a lot on your playgroup. And yeah, Boros is a terrible color combi to play in EDH.

I'll fight you with my Archangel Avacyn deck and win*


*winning not guaranteed if wiping the board, doing anything for the first 3 turns or comboing off

 

[OnPoint]

And you can see it even in these threads. I know the BFZ and SOI story posts have gotten more attention than the old Khans story posts. There is a lot more discussion of the story now than before--even if people are complaining, this still demonstrates that they're at least keeping up with plot points.

This is true. I remember in threads long since passed, some posters wondering why anyone ever cared about the story.

 

[Angry Grimace]

Yeah but people didn't complain about the KTK story because they didn't have the lame as fuck Justice League shit then.

 

[Familienoberhauptvogel]

Eh I wasn't around during KTK and took a break of MTG during and I'm at the top of the wall of shame already so idk.