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May U.S. Primaries |OT| Glory to America
- Thread starter dramatis
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That's how most of the responses all around everywhere has been. Lots of 'Buts' added to 'violence is bad'
EatinOlives
Member
I can't respect anyone who spews this. "Be nice to me or I'll vote Trump!" is a nonsensical bargaining chip that only tells me you're not taking any of this seriously, in which case I wonder why you're pretending to be interested in this election in the first place.
As a member of one of the many minority groups that Trump has targeted, I ask you to exit the election entirely if you're even considering supporting that bag of trash out of spite. The shit he says, the kinds of people he empowers, the magnitude at which he has lowered the level of discourse regarding people like us isn't anything to take lightly. Don't dangle that "threat" over us like parents threatening the Boogeyman on their kids. It's far more condescending than you realize.
The votes so far (grabbed the image from Twitter)
Hillary Clinton: 13.3 million
Donald Trump: 11.2 million
Bernie Sanders: 10.4 million
Ted Cruz: 7.4 million
John Kasich: 3.9 million
Marco Rubio: 3.5 million
I'll never understand the 'Sanders Is More Electable' crowd. Losing the popular vote (by millions), losing the delegate count (by huge margins) and the only demographic he reliably carries (White people) usually goes Republican in the General anyways.
HOW is he more electable?
excelsiorlef
Member
Followed by bullshit paragraphs about how Nevada was stolen and about how the victim of the harassment was a huge part of that.
It's like yeah harassment is bad but she helped steal the election.
I mean shit Sanders' direct statement was yeah violence is bad but people were violent against us too and here's how the Nevada Dems stole the election from me.
SolicitorPirate
Member
Famous last words of the GOP
It really is a selfish and petty way to look at things. Especially for something that will effect other people immensely. You absolutely can not claim to want the more progressive candidate in Bernie just to turn around threaten a vote for Trump or any other Republican if you don't get your way. I'll even push further by saying that if you are in a contested state, you support Bernie, he loses the primary, and you either vote against Hillary or abstain completely, you are being immensely selfish, irresponsible, and inconsistent.
I am absolutely of the opinion that the differences between the parties are negligible for reforming our political system, but the differences that do exist in the things we can effect are very apparent. I used to think otherwise, but the pragmatic approach here is very important.
Frozenprince
Banned
Because the people that threaten to do that aren't progressives. They are the same anti-establishment crowd that flocks to one candidate every cycle. They thrive on playing contrarian, they don't actually give a fuck about the country.
Hillary Clinton is going to be president. At this point it's just about how much she wins by.
7DollarHagane
Banned
Respect them or not but without them I think Hilary loses the general. I'm not one of them, by the way.
To win a presidency you can't get votes only from people you respect, unfortunately.
John Dunbar
correct about everything
i don't think that winning or losing the popular vote in the primaries has much to do with how electable someone is. trump is certainly not the most electable republican.
TheChuggernaut
Banned
I don't condone it, and would speak out against it. Death threats aren't okay.
I don't know if I can honestly call myself a Bernie supporter anymore though, I've already accepted that he's going to lose and I'm just waiting for this all to end. Planning on jumping on the Hilary train as soon as she's officially the nominee.
SolicitorPirate
Member
You can if the rest of the group doesn't turn around to stamp out and condemn the abhorrent behaviour. I know Bernie supporters hate the Gamergate comparison, but blaming a small minority for throwing shit while doing nothing, and even benefiting from the shit throwing, is a word for word page out the GG playbook.
excelsiorlef
Member
So is frankly saying I'm against harassment but that person being harassed did something bad and I get harassed too
Especially when you lie about what bad thing the person being harassed supposedly did.
This reminds me of the Ron Paul camp circa 2008... But more divisive because Bernie condones it.
boiled goose
good with gravy
He does much better with independents and also has better appeal to Republicans under 30. Hillary is popular with the democratic base but not very liked outside the base.
Every head to head national poll has him doing better against trump than Clinton. Polls all the way through May. But many on Gaf will tell you that the polls are wrong because of feelings they have.
Trump has highest unfavorables in history. Hillary is number 2 in history. Bernie has positive favorability. He also has huge leads in trustability and cares for people like me polls. They too are highly predictive of presidential wins.
Now those are the facts...
In my personal opinion, you have to win the primary first to be the nominee.
Big Baybee
Member
He's not. Just a talking point with nothing to substantiate it.
People on GAF have not told you the polls are wrong because of "feelings they have," but OK.
If this election cycle has taught you anything, shouldn't it be that favorability does not translate into votes? Donald Trump's own in-party unfavorability was so great, and he was still able to accelerate his campaign and win with impressive margins as the campaign wore on. I think that as he focused on people like Cruz, Rubio, etc., their high favorabilities dropped and his buoyed a little bit. I don't think there's a lot of precedent for the counterargument.
Finale Fireworker
Member
From the first day of Bernie's campaign, me and everyone I know who supports Bernie Sanders was of the mindset that "we will vote for Hillary just as well as we'll vote for Bernie, we would just rather vote for Bernie." This was during the time that Sanders stood up and said he wasn't going to smear Hillary, that he likes Hillary, and that he is more interested in selling himself than disparaging her.
You can argue who started taking the first shots. For us, it was the Spanish interview and the "I would put my record up against yours any day of the week" quote, but obviously the original POV that this was supposed to be a classy campaign went out the window. Gradually, my emails from the Bernie campaign became more and more about Hillary, and how we should be angry at Hillary, and how Hillary is unfit for the presidency, etc.
Since that shift, my group of Bernie supporters had grown more timid about professing our support. I live in a state Bernie won, but we all knew that actually winning the presidency was a long shot. We were always prepared to vote for Hillary, and will do so, but at one time we would have preferred to vote for Bernie.
So, no, I don't support or condone BernieBros throwing money at Hillary as she walks into banquets or hurling chairs around. Hillary is not our enemy and never has been. Treating her like one is poor form and bad politics, even if your ideal candidate isn't the one on the final ballot. Even if your ideal candidate doesn't exist.
Edit: I shouldn't say "from the first day" of his campaign. I should say, from the first day of his campaign with the Democratic Party. We were not interested in voting for an independent because splitting the liberal vote between an independent and a democrat was exactly how Paul LePage won Maine Governer with only 39% of the vote.
boiled goose
good with gravy
That as trump attacks you your favorability can go down? I agree.
Trump won for two reasons. Racism and Anti establishment anger. Hillary's strong ties to current government ( Congress has favorability of single digits) is a liability outside of the democratic base. Trump has been trumpeting ( partially lying) about not being influenced by outside money. Unfortunately one of Trump s strenghts is Hillary's aq heel.
I don't think Sanders should be the nominee if he doesn't win the primary which at this point is pretty clear he wont.
That said, polls ( and trends!) Do offer valid insight. His national polling has gone upward as more people hear about him, not down.
Hillary will be the nominee, but the reasons why Sanders could do better in a general matchup against trump are actually pretty transparent and well understood.
Hillary v Trump can still be a landslide, Which i hope is what happens. These debates could be very interesting....
I don't like however her current strategy of merely attacking Trump on personal issues rather than emphasize her policy differences. Push why you are better, not why Trump sucks. It plays into his anti establishment victim hood which he used effectively in the primary.
Prototype Viktor
Member
Because all he does is win! He let Hilary go in first because he's a gentleman. Now be be straight winning closing that gap of her's down by 2 to 7 points every few weeks. After 56 more states vote he'll be tied before those super delegates wisen up
Aaronology
Member
I can't believe we've regressed again to discussing GE polling during a primary...
For those who are catching up this morning, the summation of yesterday's primaries.
Kentucky
Primary (D) | 5/17 | 55 delegates | Winner: Clinton | Clinton 27 delegates, Sanders 27 delegates
Detailed results
Oregon
Primary (D) | 5/17 | 61 delegates | Winner: Sanders | Sanders 28 delegates, Clinton 24 delegates (tentative)
Primary (R) | 5/17 | 28 delegates | Winner: Trump
Detailed results
Bernie Sanders Wins Oregon; Hillary Clinton Declares Victory in Kentucky [NY Times]
Unfortunately yesterday's events were trumped (no pun intended) by news regarding Nevada's state convention.
Bernie Sanders Facing Pressure Over Supporters Actions in Nevada [NY Times]
We have one more state to go in May. Washington (state) will be voting next Tuesday.
Kentucky
Primary (D) | 5/17 | 55 delegates | Winner: Clinton | Clinton 27 delegates, Sanders 27 delegates
Detailed results
Oregon
Primary (D) | 5/17 | 61 delegates | Winner: Sanders | Sanders 28 delegates, Clinton 24 delegates (tentative)
Primary (R) | 5/17 | 28 delegates | Winner: Trump
Detailed results
Bernie Sanders Wins Oregon; Hillary Clinton Declares Victory in Kentucky [NY Times]
Unfortunately yesterday's events were trumped (no pun intended) by news regarding Nevada's state convention.
Bernie Sanders Facing Pressure Over Supporters Actions in Nevada [NY Times]
We have one more state to go in May. Washington (state) will be voting next Tuesday.
gutter_trash
Banned
polls matter more to them than the actual results
balladofwindfishes
Member
This isn't her strategy. She's letting others do it, her attack on Trump will be trying to pin him down to one view. He moves around so much, that if she can get him attached to one thing, she can hit him on it.
She's going after his lack of experience and his nonexistent policy views.
I heard yesterday that Trump is going to rely on bringing up the Monica Lewinsky scandal and other similar events from her tenure as the first lady... He's going to focus more on what he perceives to be character flaws.
If you thought it was ugly before, just wait. He's going to bring down political discourse another 10 notches, and hopefully drag her down with him. I hope she has a good strategy going in.
balladofwindfishes
Member
Attacking Hillary on Monica Lewinsky is going to be a big misplay by Trump.
It didn't work in the 90s against Bill, himself, when the entire party used it as an attack against him. Why would Trump believe he alone trying to attach Hillary to it, would work? She can easily just paint herself as the victim in the entire thing...
It didn't work in the 90s against Bill, himself, when the entire party used it as an attack against him. Why would Trump believe he alone trying to attach Hillary to it, would work? She can easily just paint herself as the victim in the entire thing...
BotoxAgent
Member
Bernie's unfavorables would skyrocket if the Republicans decide to sink their teeth into him.
Jorok Goldblade
Member
Even Hillary ' s mostly just been letting his campaign run out of steam on its own.
I honestly think he shouldn't, not just because of Hillary, but because Monica Lewinsky will also suffer. Trump wouldn't be smearing just one woman in this attack.
Outtrigger888
Member
The cheating threads on gaf would say otherwise.
Nice, Oregon felt the bern, though Bernie won by a slimmer-than-expected margin there (about 9 points).
I'm still here. There are dozens of us! Well, maybe like half a dozen.
Are there any other Bernie supporters left on NeoGAF these days?
Am I the last one?
I'm still here. There are dozens of us! Well, maybe like half a dozen.
Same here. Voted for him in the primary but throw in the towel already so the party can start backing Hillary
InaSnowBoundLand
Member
From a Clinton supporter's perspective, the concerning aspect about the sex scandal attack route is that I think attitudes about the purported victm have changed since the 90s. Disbelief / dismissal of the purported victim seemed more common back then than it is now. And while I think it is important to be supportive of people who claim to have been the victims of sexual assault or rape and I believe this shift is generally positive, a blind spot has emerged about false rape/abuse accusations. That is, there is a sense among many that every rape claim should be treated as if it were and actually is obviously true.
So I am slightly uneasy about the the consequences of this type of attack. Trump has already led the conversation into the gutter before. With no qualifications of his own, this is his main tactic. Recall that he suggested Ted Cruz's father was involved int he JFK assassination based on a tabloid report despite all evidence to the contrary. So I am a bit worried about someone like Juanita Broaddrick being put on an ad and talking about how Bill Clinton allegedly raped her and Hillary silenced her. Trump has played with the truth before; he doesn't care what the consequences are as long as he wins.
I'm not sure about the Clinton strategy, either. So far, they have mostly refused to comment. Perhaps that is a way of keeping those ideas at the fringe. But there's also a danger that these accusations might define Hillary if Trump is the only one openly discussing the issue.
So I am slightly uneasy about the the consequences of this type of attack. Trump has already led the conversation into the gutter before. With no qualifications of his own, this is his main tactic. Recall that he suggested Ted Cruz's father was involved int he JFK assassination based on a tabloid report despite all evidence to the contrary. So I am a bit worried about someone like Juanita Broaddrick being put on an ad and talking about how Bill Clinton allegedly raped her and Hillary silenced her. Trump has played with the truth before; he doesn't care what the consequences are as long as he wins.
I'm not sure about the Clinton strategy, either. So far, they have mostly refused to comment. Perhaps that is a way of keeping those ideas at the fringe. But there's also a danger that these accusations might define Hillary if Trump is the only one openly discussing the issue.
Square2015
Member
With 89% counted in Oregon it's now an 11 pt. gap (55.5 to 44.5).
Every county but one has gone for Sanders.
edit: CNN %ages may be off.
Every county but one has gone for Sanders.
edit: CNN %ages may be off.
IAmAnAgnostic
Member
Interesting results. It seems almost certain that it will come down to Trump vs Hillary.
FunkyMunkey
Banned
it's half of what sanders talks about these days and thus his base as well. now that all the other pieces have fallen, it's literally all he has left
mention the fact that he hasn't even begun to be placed under scrutiny yet by the republican machine, unlike hillary, and well that somehow becomes irrelevant
Bam Bam Baklava
Member
This has been certain for at least a month now.
Because bullshit polls
Jorok Goldblade
Member
Because he's been facing a softball campaign in the primary and the GOP hasn't run attacks against him, either. Meanwhile, the Clintons have been enduring partisan attacks for the last thirty years.
The situation now does not reflect what the situation would be once the general election begins in earnest.
Eh, Gamergaters and old white males are not demographics she needs. Anti-establishment Green Rainbow / La Rouche derps never vote for the two major parties anyways.
She's going to do better amoung the same demos that Obama won in 2008 and 2012. That's all she needs.
Bam Bam Baklava
Member
He hasn't been scrutinized in the media like any other candidate, partly because they don't view him seriously. Jeb Bush or Rubio getting caught stealing data would be a big deal, for Sanders, he was somehow the victim. Clinton saying white people don't know what it's like to be poor would be the death of her campaign but for Sanders it was forgotten almost immediately after he said it.
Rentahamster
Rodent Whores
The only thing that I could see being a factor is the difference in attitudes between then and now. Older man in a very high position of power having an affair with a young intern who is pretty powerless. In 2016, a lot more people have a problem with that scenario.
Dash_Riprock
Member
And those same people have an even BIGGER problem with the GoP's overall track record on women's right.
Rentahamster
Rodent Whores
While that is true, my reading of the current times is that there are now more Republican-leaners who would consider that a bad thing (in the 90s, this seemed to be limited to mostly overly-religious puritan types who gave a shit about this on a personal level). There are also more Democratic-leaners who are turned off more about this, enough that it might consider them to second guess Hillary.
I'm not really thinking about the die-hards. Their minds are already made up. I'm trying to visualize the people who are on the edge of being persuaded either way.
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