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[VFXVeteran]

What would you say PS5 GPU is equivalent to?

I don't understand that question. Are you asking what power levels do I think the PS5 will sustain under average 3D graphics features in games today? Or peak performance level equivalents?

 

[Reindeer]

I don't understand that question. Are you asking what power levels do I think the PS5 will sustain under average 3D graphics features in games today? Or peak performance level equivalents?

I mean what desktop GPU would you compare it to taking into consideration the amount of GDDR6 the console has.

 

[splattered]

I love how they avoid putting PS5 compressed output just to avoid showing xbox number as low in comparison

Also what's the deal of 14TF xbox? Are we putting imaginary numbers now? Lol

Did you write that?

I've asked this in a few times around the forums... XsX specs are locked, but they most likely have headroom to upclock things higher and again lock or to consider a similar boost mode technology that PS5 is using.

I would prefer they stay at a stable locked frequency for everything though... but man if they could punch even higher sacrificing a bit of heat and noise and hit 13 or 14tf that would be absurd.

Though if PS5 is closer to 9.2tf on average and XsX was upclocked to a locked ~13TF+ that's an even bigger performance gap that Sony just absolutely could not catch up to.

Will most likely never happen though... I think they are comfortable where they are currently sitting.

 

[Nivek OnlyOn]

Its nothing but a reasonable estimation! Are you guys saying that MS can upclock massive 52CUs to 2.2GHz? Good luck with that

XsX gpu is rdna2 Vanilla. Very little customization.

 

[Farrell55]

They could very well be multi-purpose, as I suspect the Tempest 3D audio chip can either be used for PS3 backwards compatibiity, 3D audio in games like CoD, or used for both 3D audio and custom RT functionality to help the GPU RT CUs in single player games where the visuals matter more.

I would Love that stuff
But at the moment it is only your own Interpretation nothing more nothing less

 

[ph33rknot]

I have a question, I'm sorry if it was asked before...

I'm reading about Xbox Lockhart as a cheaper option coming out....

What about Xbox One X? They are killing it after less than 3 years?

Makes no sense to me, it is plenty fast for 1080p gaming

I thought they where giving it another two years

 

[Reindeer]

B

XsX gpu is rdna2 Vanilla. Very little customization.

But they announced more features for it than Sony has. PS5 could still have those features, but stating that it's vanilla and PS5 is not is ludicrous at this point.

 

[Nivek OnlyOn]

I've asked this in a few times around the forums... XsX specs are locked, but they most likely have headroom to upclock things higher and again lock or to consider a similar boost mode technology that PS5 is using.

I would prefer they stay at a stable locked frequency for everything though... but man if they could punch even higher sacrificing a bit of heat and noise and hit 13 or 14tf that would be absurd.

Though if PS5 is closer to 9.2tf on average and XsX was upclocked to a locked ~13TF+ that's an even bigger performance gap that Sony just absolutely could not catch up to.

Will most likely never happen though... I think they are comfortable where they are currently sitting.

Have you seen the heatsink in xsx?
Its already upclocked. Gpu was around 1700ghz. At a breaking point right now with thermals

 

[M-V2]

When I told you guys maybe Tommy knows about the SX specs but he doesn't know about the PS5, many people called me out for being alt account. I even said guys don't fall for that trap & over hype things but no one listens. I'm sure most of the insiders here know shit about ps5, they wanted to generate hype to make you guys end up being disappointed & they succeeded thanks to some devs did a better marketing job for Sony otherwise it will be a disaster.

I don't know but I feel discovered something if I say it I will be banned so it is what it is.

 

[Shio]

I've asked this in a few times around the forums... XsX specs are locked, but they most likely have headroom to upclock things higher and again lock or to consider a similar boost mode technology that PS5 is using.

I would prefer they stay at a stable locked frequency for everything though... but man if they could punch even higher sacrificing a bit of heat and noise and hit 13 or 14tf that would be absurd.

Though if PS5 is closer to 9.2tf on average and XsX was upclocked to a locked ~13TF+ that's an even bigger performance gap that Sony just absolutely could not catch up to.

Will most likely never happen though... I think they are comfortable where they are currently sitting.

Xbox could do that like they did with the XBox One where they slightly increased the clocks but i don't think they would do that any time soon as currently they are sitting comfortably with their 12.1TF and why would they upclock only to add more heat and noise?. Now maybe a couple of years down the line if PS5 starts producing things which are at the same level or beyond compared to XBox then they might uplock as they seem to have that option but PS5 doesn't seem to have such options left if they felt the need to.

 

[Reindeer]

Have you seen the heatsink in xsx?
Its already upclocked. Gpu was around 1700ghz. At a breaking point right now with thermals

How can it be at breaking point with PS5 GPU uses the same architecture and can push their GPU to 2.25Ghz?

 

[joe_zazen]

Try Bloodborne at the very least, if you didn't.
Between calice dungeons and NG+ you can get 200 hours out of that game.

I played Demons Souls for 500 hours plus and haven't been able to get into another From game since. It is like cocaine or sex: you cannot get that first time magic back and every subsequent hit feels less magical.

Playing that game without knowing what I was getting into was so special, maybe my favourite gaming memory next to Mario Galaxy 1. Now that souls-like is a genre, they are just games...really good ones, but not magic. Lol, maybe I am just old now.

 

[Nivek OnlyOn]

A

B
But they announced more features for it than Sony has. PS5 could still have those features, but stating that it's vanilla and PS5 is not is ludicrous at this point.

All generic features found in nvidia and amd gpus.
Sony implemented proprietary customization example Geometry Engine
Intersection Engine
Gpu cache scrubbers

 

[Shio]

Have you seen the heatsink in xsx?
Its already upclocked. Gpu was around 1700ghz. At a breaking point right now with thermals

Why such a temperature difference between the GPUs? is it just that PS5 has a bettter cooling solution? Xbox are also very experienced with excellent cooling so i would not think so. Or is it the additional stuff they included in the GPU contributing to the heat?

 

[Reindeer]

A

All generic features found in nvidia and amd gpus.
Sony implemented proprietary customization example Geometry Engine
Intersection Engine
Gpu cache scrubbers

Those are the same features Xbox has just with different names because PS5 uses different API compared to Xbox.

 

[Nivek OnlyOn]

How can it be at breaking point with PS5 GPU uses the same architecture and can push their GPU to 2.25Ghz?

Cooling thermals team is a differeny branch not under Cerny. Its the box design thats responsible for cooling.

 

[On Demand]

WTF is this?

Sony PS5 Vs. Xbox Series X Technical Analysis: Why The PS5's 10.3 TFLOPs Figure Is Misleading

We now have preliminary specifications of both the Microsoft Xbox Series X (XSX) and Sony Playstation 5 and it's time to do a quick analysis of their graphics capabilities. Before we begin, a primer: this article is based only on the information released by both companies and their execution and...

wccftech.com

LOL

 

[quest]

I've asked this in a few times around the forums... XsX specs are locked, but they most likely have headroom to upclock things higher and again lock or to consider a similar boost mode technology that PS5 is using.

I would prefer they stay at a stable locked frequency for everything though... but man if they could punch even higher sacrificing a bit of heat and noise and hit 13 or 14tf that would be absurd.

Though if PS5 is closer to 9.2tf on average and XsX was upclocked to a locked ~13TF+ that's an even bigger performance gap that Sony just absolutely could not catch up to.

Will most likely never happen though... I think they are comfortable where they are currently sitting.

To late to add the boost thank God. I think MS will stay where they are at no reason to push clocks and run a nuclear reactor like Sony. I think 12 tf is good for this generation near enthusiasts gaming rigs unlike last generation.

 

[chilichote]

At the moment MS talks about Teraflops, they have decided the clocks. I don't believe they will upclock XSeX.

For marketing, they have the higher Number. That's enough for them i think.

 

[johnjohn]

Why would MS upclock? They're already comfortably the most powerful console and games are going to look and perform best on it.

 

[CJY]

The 'rise' in ambient temperature of a chip - assuming all other things are equal like clock/cooling - is directly proportional to energy powering the chip that doesn't do work. Transistors doing work are conductive, while the others are infinitely resistive (AFAIK), so most transistors being conductive allows them to use more of the supplied energy for work done, resulting in less residing in the transistors adding to ambient chip temperature. As ambient temperature rises overall electrical resistance of transistors rise -even when they are in the conductive state which then result in more power used to maintain work at that performance(iIIRC, but is a long time since EE modules at Uni).

It sounds like you're saying that if the GPU has less work, the residual power simply gets turned into heat? That would make sense if the power delivery were to be constant, which Cerny outlined in his talk:

35:46 it's a completely
35:48 different paradigm rather than running
35:50 at constant frequency and letting power
35:52 vary based on the workload we run at
35:55 essentially constant power and let the
35:57 frequency band vary based on the
35:59 workload

...Implying that power draw on PS4 varied based on workload. I'm not disputing what you're saying about conductivity vs. infinite resistivity, just trying to get my head around what he's on about.

 

[joe_zazen]

Xbox could do that like they did with the XBox One where they slightly increased the clocks but i don't think they would do that any time soon as currently they are sitting comfortably with their 12.1TF and why would they upclock only to add more heat and noise?. Now maybe a couple of years down the line if PS5 starts producing things which are at the same level or beyond compared to XBox then they might uplock as they seem to have that option but PS5 doesn't seem to have such options left if they felt the need to.

Like via a firmware update?

you would need a different power supply and cooling solution then.

 

[Shio]

When I told you guys maybe Tommy knows about the SX specs but he doesn't know about the PS5, many people called me out for being alt account. I even said guys don't fall for that trap & over hype things but no one listens. I'm sure most of the insiders here know shit about ps5, they wanted to generate hype to make you guys end up being disappointed & they succeeded thanks to some devs did a better marketing job for Sony otherwise it will be a disaster.

I don't know but I feel discovered something if I say it I will be banned so it is what it is.

PM me what you discovered as i am interested

 

[Reindeer]

At the moment MS talks about Teraflops, they have decided the clocks. I don't believe they will upclock XSeX.

For marketing, they have the higher Number. That's enough for them i think.

There's absolutely no reason for them to overclock like they did with original Xbox One.

 

[THE:MILKMAN]

Yeah I just don't have an answer.

You would think if people were doing that they would know they would never be trusted again.

I dunno you could be right.

I've said it before and I'll say it again. Embellishment is a huge factor IMO. Just too tempting when you have a big group of people waiting for the next morsel....

 

[Rusco Da Vino]

What is your source for 9.2TF sustained?, i know of the boost they talked about with was a couple of %, but interested where you got that 9.2TF from?

Source:

 

[Reindeer]

Like via a firmware update?

you would need a different power supply and cooling solution then.

Depends by how much they would decide to overclock, but it's highly unlikely they would.

 

[quest]

Why such a temperature difference between the GPUs? is it just that PS5 has a bettter cooling solution? Xbox are also very experienced with excellent cooling so i would not think so. Or is it the additional stuff they included in the GPU contributing to the heat?

No reason for Microsoft to spend a ton of money on expensive cooling and a ton of spins of silicon like Sony. They hit their target with lower clocks with much more manageable thermals. Sony to hit targets was forced into extremes for clocks. It be interesting to see the cooling and how it holds up in high temperature areas of the world.

 

[Shio]

Like via a firmware update?

you would need a different power supply and cooling solution then.

I believe the Xbox Series X power supply was rated for a higher watt rating than what was needed so it may have extra capacity

 

[Ascend]

Its nothing but a reasonable estimation! Are you guys saying that MS can upclock massive 52CUs to 2.2GHz? Good luck with that

Massive? The CPU and GPU are only 360 mm2 together. We know that a Ryzen chiplet is about ~80 mm2, so that leaves about 260 mm2 for the GPU part on the XSX die. A 5700XT is 251 mm2. So no, the GPU in the XSX is not "massive".
The PS5 GPU is most likely the console RDNA2 version of the 5700. So the XSX is likely a bit larger, but not nearly enough to make a huge difference is clock capability. 2.2 GHz is probably reachable, although not likely sustainable with the current cooling system without sounding like a jet engine.

This is AMD hardware, and considering that the older tech Radeon VII (60CU) can reach over 1800MHz, which is nearly the same clock speed as the 5700XT (40CU), I see no reason as to why that same 2.2 GHz clock is unreachable on a new RDNA2 XSX GPU.

It's true that the calculated boost TF is still speculation, but it's really not far off. But the most important take-away is that the 10.2 TF of the PS5 is deceiving. Why are you whining about the imaginary 14TF? without any imaginary boost, the XSX is still 12.2TF and beats the PS5's imaginary 10.2TF.

 

[ph33rknot]

Fair to say, they got Ninja Theory and put them to work on a fucking hero shooter which no one cares about. Hellblade 2 then... yeah, good luck with dealing with that ending without bullshitting the whole story. No surprise they went Project Mara which is probably the true evolution of what they would do from Hellblade without doing a sequel.
Their team management is awfull, from Crackdown to Scalebound, to the way they stalemated Halo and Gears which were absolute pillars of gaming. Hey, if they pull it off good for everyone, but compared to many other producers Sony is on another level, it takes a lot to reach it, MS taking studios do not amaze me more than EA acquiring new studios: ok, then what?
Let's see.

Ninja theory had been working on bleeding edge before the where purchased

 

[joe_zazen]

Why such a temperature difference between the GPUs? is it just that PS5 has a bettter cooling solution? Xbox are also very experienced with excellent cooling so i would not think so. Or is it the additional stuff they included in the GPU contributing to the heat?

ps5 cooling is guaranteed to be more expensive and therefore better. MS just choose to spend that money elsewhere.

I still don't understand how or why PS5 running at 2.2 is a good idea give the extra money the cooling and power supply is going to chew up, but I am reserving judgement until we see games. Maybe cerney’s team are wizards going for better real world performance despite losing the marketing bullet points. Maybe not.

 

[Reindeer]

Massive? The CPU and GPU are only 360 mm2 together. We know that a Ryzen chiplet is about ~80 mm2, so that leaves about 260 mm2 for the GPU part on the XSX die. A 5700XT is 251 mm2. So no, the GPU in the XSX is not "massive".
The PS5 GPU is most likely the console RDNA2 version of the 5700. So the XSX is likely a bit larger, but not nearly enough to make a huge difference is clock capability. 2.2 GHz is probably reachable, although not likely sustainable with the current cooling system without sounding like a jet engine.

This is AMD hardware, and considering that the older tech Radeon VII (60CU) can reach over 1800MHz, which is nearly the same clock speed as the 5700XT (40CU), I see no reason as to why that same 2.2 GHz clock is unreachable on a new RDNA2 XSX GPU.

It's true that the calculated boost TF is still speculation, but it's really not far off. But the most important take-away is that the 10.2 TF of the PS5 is deceiving. Why are you whining about the imaginary 14TF? without any imaginary boost, the XSX is still 12.2TF and beats the PS5's imaginary 10.2TF.

You forgetting that next gen console GPUs are manufactured using n7P process, so that 367mm Xbox APU will be like 400+mm of standard 7nm process. This is how they are able to fit capable ray tracing on it on top of CPU and GPU.

 

[Shio]

ps5 cooling is guaranteed to be more expensive and therefore better. MS just choose to spend that money elsewhere.

I still don't understand how or why PS5 running at 2.2 is a good idea give the extra money the cooling and power supply is going to chew up, but I am reserving judgement until we see games. Maybe cerney’s team are wizards going for better real world performance despite losing the marketing bullet points. Maybe not.

Specs and numbers are nice to speculate about but the real deal is the games, until we see the games we cannot really say how each will use their respective hardware. If someone was to ask me about PS4 (without me knowing anything about it) and its 1.8TF GPU and hard drive in comparison to knowing about PS5, i would reject it thinking there is no way that is usable or impressive, but if they first showed me Horizon, God of War, SpiderMan, I would definitely be impressed. After seeing the games that 1.8TF wouldn't feel disappointing but i would be even more impressed. Games/Demos are really important for us to gauge what the hardware is capable of, without numbers but what our eyes can see and the things we can feel.

 

[joe_zazen]

I believe the Xbox Series X power supply was rated for a higher watt rating than what was needed so it may have extra capacity

i mean including all the hardware on the board that regulates and supplies the power to the actual chip, as well as the power circuitry on die. Guaranteed ps5 has more expensive and elaborate power solution than xsx.

It would be a waste of money to include that stuff in a console that didn't need it ‘just in case’.

 

[Shio]

i mean including all the hardware on the board that regulates and supplies the power to the actual chip, as well as the power circuitry on die. Guaranteed ps5 has more expensive and elaborate power solution than xsx.

It would be a waste of money to include that stuff in a console that didn't need it ‘just in case’.

Consoles are never perfect, they estimate how they might be used and create the hardware to the best of their budget to fulfil their requirement. Maybe after release the hardware is pushed differently to what they anticipated and thus they are forced to react to try and resolve this as best they can. They can't change the hardware at this stage and thus are left with software/firmware only like API's or increasing clocks etc.

 

[Apollo Helios]

There might be a $50 and it wouldn't surprise me if they are the same price.

Talking to some people that SSD Sony went with is not going to be cheap.

Can't wait to see more on both systems.

I guess people are running into circle thinking PS5 will be more cheap than seX because is weaker. That SSD is bloody expensive and the cooling system will be too, so in the end both will have similar or near prices.

Well I'll buy PS5 first in any case. PS5 can be 499$ which I presume will be the same for Series X, but I will still buy PS5 first just waiting for preorders to open.

 

[vpance]

ps5 cooling is guaranteed to be more expensive and therefore better. MS just choose to spend that money elsewhere.

I still don't understand how or why PS5 running at 2.2 is a good idea give the extra money the cooling and power supply is going to chew up, but I am reserving judgement until we see games. Maybe cerney’s team are wizards going for better real world performance despite losing the marketing bullet points. Maybe not.

The extra money put in cooling might be worth it if the case can be significantly smaller than going with a big tower design like XSX.

 

[ThaMonkeyClaw]

ps5 cooling is guaranteed to be more expensive and therefore better. MS just choose to spend that money elsewhere.

I still don't understand how or why PS5 running at 2.2 is a good idea give the extra money the cooling and power supply is going to chew up, but I am reserving judgement until we see games. Maybe cerney’s team are wizards going for better real world performance despite losing the marketing bullet points. Maybe not.

The whole 2.23GHz has me concerned as well, especially knowing how their cooling solutions have been in the past, hopefully it doesn't sound like a jet taking off...

 

[VanSiriusGabriel]

The whole 2.23GHz has me concerned as well, especially knowing how their cooling solutions have been in the past, hopefully it doesn't sound like a jet taking off...

After that noise part in the conference, if PS5 is not somewhat silent I don't know what to think anymore.

 

[Nivek OnlyOn]

PS5 games only need 1 second of gameplay streaming instead of PS4s 30seconds.
Assuming xsx need 5-8seconds of gameplay, the PS5 GPI only needs to process for that 1 second and not 5+sec on xsx

 

[CatLady]

The amount of PS5's SSD-related threads in the past two days is outstanding, butthurt and denial have reach a whole new level LMFAO. It's hilarious to read how the fanboys are supposedly more excited about SSD or 3D audio (that even at release will still be a work in progress) than anything else, without seeing any actual results/practical applications, hell they didn't even saw the console itself yet...

Well I know the things I was most excited about when the Xbox One was revealed was:
TV, TV, TV, Sports, Sports, Kinect, TV

So I'm sure you can understand how PS fans are thrilled with:
SSD.SSD.SSD. Audio, Audio, Boost Mode, SSD

 

[sinnergy]

What is your source for 9.2TF sustained?, i know of the boost they talked about with was a couple of %, but interested where you got that 9.2TF from?

GITHUB, that was a sustained clock test.

 

[webber]

As I previously said: nothing will matter when they show us the games.
The TF difference? Yes, it's not that small, but I really doubt a 3rd Party dev will go out of its way to make a game better on XSX, deliberately.
It'll be a reversed PS4 vs XBox One situation, but lessened. Little more resolution here and there.
As for 1st Party? Well, the possibilities on the Sony side are exciting with WWS and this SSD I/O speed.
I'm very impressed by M$ and it's ecosystem but I'm not gonna judge both consoles now because we haven't seen enough to tell which one is better.
Let them show us the games, feature set and prices before judging numbers on a spec sheet, we haven't even seen PS5 yet.

 

[StreetsofBeige]

ps5 cooling is guaranteed to be more expensive and therefore better. MS just choose to spend that money elsewhere.

I still don't understand how or why PS5 running at 2.2 is a good idea give the extra money the cooling and power supply is going to chew up, but I am reserving judgement until we see games. Maybe cerney’s team are wizards going for better real world performance despite losing the marketing bullet points. Maybe not.

The whole 2.23GHz has me concerned as well, especially knowing how their cooling solutions have been in the past, hopefully it doesn't sound like a jet taking off...

The reason for the boost is to get PS5 over than psychological 10tf mark.

The system was spot on with those old ass Oberon 9.2tf leaks. All those weird github datamined charts were right.

But they didn't find any data on an overclocked GPU. If the 2.23 ghz gpu slows down and runs at 2 ghz, there's the 9.2 tf.

The rest of the system was already done. So the overclock couldnt be sustained like a normal chip does at its speed. As a compromise, they got the chip boostable, but due to heat or whatever, it has to do trade offs with the cpu clocks to get both running as high as possible without maxing out both for long stretches and burning out the chips.

Nobody even knows how sustainable this 10.3tf even is.

All Cerny claimed was something like "it should be close most of the time". Not his exact words, but made it sound like 10+tf should be easily doable.

I don't know anything about gpus, but techies have this notion that anytime a gpu hits around 2 ghz, watch out. So PS5 at a peak of 2.23 ghz is watch out territory.

 

[VanSiriusGabriel]

Well I know the things I was most excited about when the Xbox One was revealed was:
TV, TV, TV, Sports, Sports, Kinect, TV

So I'm sure you can understand how PS fans are thrilled with:
SSD.SSD.SSD. Audio, Audio, Boost Mode, SSD

At least has to do something with games.
No, Kinect is not about games. A second of delay isn't gaming anymore, it's a mimic show.

 

[sinnergy]

As I previously said: nothing will matter when they show us the games.
The TF difference? Yes, it's not that small, but I really doubt a 3rd Party dev will go out of its way to make a game better on XSX, deliberately.
It'll be a reversed PS4 vs XBox One situation, but lessened. Little more resolution here and there.
As for 1st Party? Well, the possibilities on the Sony side are exciting with WWS and this SSD I/O speed.
I'm really impressed by M$ and it's ecosystem but I'm not gonna judge both consoles now because we haven't seen enough to tell wich

It’s very simple to use the extra power on series X for 3rd parties , crank everything up to eleven , couple of adjustments in the coding file with Notepad.

 

[THE:MILKMAN]

The whole 2.23GHz has me concerned as well, especially knowing how their cooling solutions have been in the past, hopefully it doesn't sound like a jet taking off...

Mark Cerny mentioned 'our teardown' so I assume PlayStation will do the same as they did with PS4 Pro to show off the cooling solution:

 

[joe_zazen]

The reason for the boost is to get PS5 over than psychological 10tf mark.

The system was spot on with those old ass Oberon 9.2tf leaks. All those weird github datamined charts were right.

But they didn't find any data on an overclocked GPU. If the 2.23 ghz gpu slows down and runs at 2 ghz, there's the 9.2 tf.

The rest of the system was already done. So the overclock couldnt be sustained like a normal chip does at its speed. As a compromise, they got the chip boostable, but due to heat or whatever, it has to do trade offs with the cpu clocks to get both running as high as possible without maxing out fo long stretches and burning out the chips.

The bolded contradict what cerney said. ps5 will spend the majority of its time at 10.28, freq occasionally dipping 1 or 2% when cpu is maxed.

github was rdna1, thermals and power of rdna2 are unknown. If they were the same as rdna1, then yeah you’d be right.

 

[ThaMonkeyClaw]

The reason for the boost is to get PS5 over than psychological 10tf mark.

The system was spot on with those old ass Oberon 9.2tf leaks. All those weird github datamined charts were right.

But they didn't find any data on an overclocked GPU. If the 2.23 ghz gpu slows down and runs at 2 ghz, there's the 9.2 tf.

The rest of the system was already done. So the overclock couldnt be sustained like a normal chip does at its speed. As a compromise, they got the chip boostable, but due to heat or whatever, it has to do trade offs with the cpu clocks to get both running as high as possible without maxing out both for long stretches and burning out the chips.

Nobody even knows how sustainable this 10.3tf even is.

All Cerny claimed was something like "it should be close most of the time". Not his exact words, but made it sound like 10+tf should be easily doable.

I don't know anything about gpus, but techies have this notion that anytime a gpu hits around 2 ghz, watch out. So PS5 at a peak of 2.23 ghz is watch out territory.

Yeah, I totally get that, I thought going to 2GHz is pushing it and when they announced 2.23GHz I was like 'oh fuck..." knowing that it is going to run hot at those speeds, unless they have some type of magic cooling system (maybe a thermosiphon cooling system?).