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Next-Gen PS5 & XSX |OT| Console tEch threaD

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ToadMan

Member
I think it'll be just a single core, bare in mind Zen2 core is about half as capable as the entire Jaguar in PS4/XB1, so I don't think the OS in next-gen consoles will need to use any more than that, if anything. So that would leave 14 threads at the devs disposal.

This is my feeling too at the moment which raises the question about the xsex solution bearing in mind it has selectable SMT.

It's difficult to imagine a non-multi threaded OS so how does the xsex deal with SMT disabled in terms of cores in use?

Ps4/Xb1 both had that core sharing paradigm so maybe something like that is back. Core can be used by an App but the OS takes priority if it needs the extra processing (voice recognition was an example on the xb1).
 

yewles1

Member
Go try fallout games on ultra, and even try them on 8K if possible, full RT. If you are impressed, then there is a problem. 2080Ti is choking with Detroit game and can't hit 60fps, but it barely looks better than PS4 Pro. Games need to be built around new hardware for better looking/gameplay, doesn't mean old shit won't need loads of computational power to show unimpressive results.
I would've agreed if we weren't talking about Ubisoft here (or the AC teams to be more specific), QD's technical pedigree shouldn't even be put into comparison consider their good to great track record the 7th and 8th gen. I personally still can't get over what happened with Black Flag on PS4, HOW DO TRY TO GET AWAY WITH NOT UTILIZING A CONSOLE TO THE BEST OF ITS FOR THE SAKE OF "PARITY?"
 

Bo_Hazem

Banned
I wish there was more talk about how much the new consoles will benefit VR. I've only played random VR demos at kiosks, but most of them seem focused on shooting. What about an open-world VR RPG, focused on exploration? Or maybe a VR sword-fighting game ala Bushido Bladem but your counters and parries could be determined by real physics, like how fast you swung your sword, and at which angle? I'd really like to see the faster hardware unlocking new gameplay experiences, and I think VR's potential has largely been untapped.

I would love having VR in every game, as a spectator at least.

And now tell me _how_ does DF know if it is there or not?
They can't tell because all they had as a basis for their speculation were _videos_ of games.

You can notice pixelization around Aloy. This is a native 4K screenshot in PNG format, direct feed from PS5 console uploaded on the official PS blog account on flickr for the best possible quality. Now zoom around her hair and eyes and you'll notice pixelization and aliasing there that you can't notice easily in native 4K, which is a smart usage of either primitive shaders, geometry engines, or VRS or all combined (don't know):

49995809658_9e3764c4b3_o.png
 
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Shin

Banned
How is it possible for someone to derail a thread you believe has no value? I mean the basis of your thread closure request was that "anything goes".

In my opinion if you make a public post, then it is there to be read, interpreted and commented upon - there wouldn't be a forum if not for that principle.

And please, ease up on the personal attacks - it's vulgar and difficult to read around.
Assumption one, did I at any time write that this thread has no value? No, responded to Bill O'Rights that is is better of split for reasons I won't repeat.
Assumption two, you assume the what the basis of my request. Can you tell the difference between a request and suggestion? Apparently not.
Assumption three, just because someone writes something doesn't automatically mean you or anyone else should feel inclined to respond, time and again especially when they are not being spoken to.
Assumption four, while I agree to an extent that it is there to discuss you fail to take notice that I addressed someone specific, you undermined him and can't let go ever since.
Assumption five, it is not a personal attack nor vulgar, if you had proper upbringing this discussion would have ended long ago yet time and again I have to respond as you feel that I'm interested in what you have to say.
I don't, I don't care about you or anything that you have to say, I've been trying to make this clear in the last 3 posts now, I am responding because it is what a proper adult does even when forced into it.
Hopefully this response is to your satisfaction, you will make less assumptions, read properly and carefully and not jump at very post that disagrees with your personal beliefs/disbliefs.

I stand by what I said about closing this topic and your numerous posts re-affirms that, now this time hopefully you will stop quoting me and the thread can stay and/or go back on-topic.
 

pasterpl

Member
Someone has clearly cut the guy's access to YT, someone please share him the below:








But still, I don't expect any difference at all in locked 30FPS games between the two consoles, maybe in 60FPS/unlocked modes those extra few hundred MHz will make a slight difference on XBX, but that's all.




No I don't agree, as the current generation with no less than 4 different consoles with supposedly tons of custom hardware/solutions clearly showed, all those console customizations are such a tiny factors they barely matter in the grand scheme of things, if at all. Since the consoles moved to x86 architecture and PC-like components, I mean literally AMD desktop products, the general specs spreadsheet already gives more than enough insight/knowledge about their capabilities. Like I said in my other post, digging the topic just means someone wants to either make them look better or worse than they really are.


based on these videos we can estimate that due to cpu alone, xbsex will have 1 fps advantage...sweet Jesus
 

DrDamn

Member
That will depend on the games, if the devs won't need more than 8 cores/threads for their titles they will use the SMT OFF profile obviously, whereas on the PS5 all those extra threads in such case will be sitting at idle.

It's a nice additional option if your game will benefit from it. Shifting power from an area that doesn't need it and will be idle otherwise and using it to improve another area ... :)
 
Let's hope Sony get to optimize their OS footprint better this gen.

Aye. I was hoping for a 16+n RAM setup on the PS5, where n would be some extra GBs of RAM specifically for use by the OS for background tasks and all kinds of other stuff.

Of course, with the SSD, it might be possible for Sony to offload the OS state on to drive when its not needed and pull it back out. Might work? There would be data shuffling going on if a game was close to maxing out the RAM and the OS wanted to come to the front. But, it would be possible.
 

Razvedka

Banned
Aye. I was hoping for a 16+n RAM setup on the PS5, where n would be some extra GBs of RAM specifically for use by the OS for background tasks and all kinds of other stuff.

Of course, with the SSD, it might be possible for Sony to offload the OS state on to drive when its not needed and pull it back out. Might work? There would be data shuffling going on if a game was close to maxing out the RAM and the OS wanted to come to the front. But, it would be possible.

I was wondering this myself. Between the PS5 OS likely being BSD (like it's been since at least PS3) and how fast the SSD + I.O. system is I'm wondering if the amount of RAM used for the OS is minimal.
 

DrDamn

Member
Of course, with the SSD, it might be possible for Sony to offload the OS state on to drive when its not needed and pull it back out. Might work? There would be data shuffling going on if a game was close to maxing out the RAM and the OS wanted to come to the front. But, it would be possible.

It would be good if the OS provided some flexibility. I.e. when running a game in the foreground have a smaller footprint than when not. Would need the memory you switch out to be non-essential for keeping the game running in the background though.
 

sircaw

Banned
I would love having VR in every game, as a spectator at least.



You can notice pixelization around Aloy. This is a native 4K screenshot in PNG format, direct feed from PS5 consle uploaded on the official PS blog account on flickr for the best possible quality. Now zoom around her hair and eyes and you'll notices pixelization and aliasing there that you can't notice easily in native 4K, which is a smart usage of either primitive shaders, geometry engines, or VRS or all combined (don't know):

49995809658_9e3764c4b3_o.png

Wtb Aloy Active theme, with fish swimming about. So beautiful.
 

Dodkrake

Banned
Someone has clearly cut the guy's access to YT, someone please share him the below:








But still, I don't expect any difference at all in locked 30FPS games between the two consoles, maybe in 60FPS/unlocked modes those extra few hundred MHz will make a slight difference on XBX, but that's all.




No I don't agree, as the current generation with no less than 4 different consoles with supposedly tons of custom hardware/solutions clearly showed, all those console customizations are such a tiny factors they barely matter in the grand scheme of things, if at all. Since the consoles moved to x86 architecture and PC-like components, I mean literally AMD desktop products, the general specs spreadsheet already gives more than enough insight/knowledge about their capabilities. Like I said in my other post, digging the topic just means someone wants to either make them look better or worse than they really are.


The guy was a principal software engineer at Sony and developed for the PS5. I'm sure you know a lot more than him!

Also, look at that fancy Celeron 5200 overclocked to 5.2GHz, much be better than the XBSX processor!
 

Nowcry

Member
I have no idea what leak you are talking about. I am just an ordinary member, and not a part of any leak as far as I know.

LEAK at this forum:

It is easy. It is useless to have 12 boxes if they do not fit through the door all together.

You have 12 boxes to fill. So you can't pass all the boxes at once. You must decide which boxes will pass and which will not. That is handled by a coordinator. And the coordinator tells the delivery man which boxes to take.

Mrs. XSX wants to make the move as soon as possible, but it turns out that only 8 boxes can fit on the door at a time. The coordinator is fast, and also uses a box compressor so that 10 boxes can go through instead of 8, but there are several drawbacks. The compressor can only compress the red boxes, and the coordinator also has to coordinate many other things, street traffic, people passing through the door, the space in the room where the boxes are stored, the noise of neighbors who distract the delivery man, search and select what the boxes are filled with, etc. Also, the delivery man is not so fast and is very distracted filling and transporting boxes. So it passes the 10 boxes (not 12) at a certain speed "1x". The lady demands that the boxes arrive, but they do not arrive as quickly as the lady would like, since although she has many boxes, the system is not capable of managing all of them properly.

On the other hand we have Mrs. PS5. You only have 10 boxes to fill. But its door is twice as big, enough for all its boxes to enter at once and there is room for people to also enter and exit through the door. Furthermore, the coordinator has the ability to automatically discard unnecessary boxes, so he doesn't waste time checking boxes that are not going to be used. In addition, anyone in the environment can do the job of the coordinator or the delivery man (even at the same time). The compressor is not that new, but it can compress all boxes, whether they are red or blue. All. And the delivery man is more than twice as fast and manages to pass the boxes at the speed of "2.5x" in the worst case, and "5x" on many occasions. In addition, if someone is left free or without work, they can help to distribute boxes with the delivery man or coordinate work with the coordinator. All this makes this removal company the most efficient ever seen and that the number of boxes available is irrelevant. For that moving system, 12 boxes are not needed, with 10 you can do the same job (and more or better in some cases). Having more boxes would only make the price of the move more expensive without needing any of it.

Of course, having more boxes available always helps to advertise yourself as a top removal company compared to the competition, even if your removal company is normal and ordinary. But it is only that, a smokescreen.

That does not mean that XSX is bad, far from it, it is an extraordinary machine. But PS5 has an efficiency NEVER seen before.

It is true that on PC there are more powerful cards or more powerful systems, but you know that these cards are never used properly, they draw raw power, but they are never used. It is the scourge of PC, an ecosystem that is too varied and unusable. In addition to exorbitant prices.

And I've always been a PCLover, but things as they are, what I've seen on PS5 I only remember something similar when 3DFX and its Glide came out. Its astonishing speed leaves you speechless.

"In addition, anyone in the environment can do the job of the coordinator or the delivery man (even at the same time)"

"In addition, if someone is left free or without work, they can help to distribute boxes with the delivery man or coordinate work with the coordinator. All this makes this removal company the most efficient ever seen and that the number of boxes available is irrelevant. "



The only way to do this is for the I / O controller to be based on custom RDNACU so that the other CUs can also help, although surely more inefficiently.
I have seen more conclusions and Twitter for this thread that commented but I have not managed to find them.
It is something that I have long assumed, that the I / O controller is based on RDNA2 CU and that it provides versatility. In fact, I do not rule out that in the future we will not see GPU-driven CU-based I / O.
I'll try to find more sources, but I don't remember them anymore.


Youtuber: Maybe Innocenceii or RedGamingTech Has mentioned it in your videos?. But i cant remenber, Sorry. I think this have a lot of sense and some leaks seem go this way. We cant get official information yet.
 
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SlimySnake

Flashless at the Golden Globes
LEAK at this forum:







The only way to do this is for the I / O controller to be based on custom RDNACU so that the other CUs can also help, although surely more inefficiently.
I have seen more conclusions and Twitter for this thread that commented but I have not managed to find them.
It is something that I have long assumed, that the I / O controller is based on RDNA2 CU and that it provides versatility. In fact, I do not rule out that in the future we will not see GPU-driven CU-based I / O.
I'll try to find more sources, but I don't remember them anymore.


Youtuber: Maybe Innocenceii or RedGamingTech Has mentioned it in your videos?. But i cant remenber, Sorry. I think this have a lot of sense and some leaks seem go this way. We cant get official information yet.
Who is this from?
 

J_Gamer.exe

Member


That tweet is over a month old, Paul said or revealed nothing really.

Cerny talks about new geometry engine.... timestamped....



We would need to compare against XSX / RDNA2 to see whats different ....who knows, everyone is giving new stuff either the same name or different names and so its not clear ?




There are more recent posts about it that was just one I plucked last time.

RDNA 3 is not even out. It funny how tidux is a "moron" a "fake insider" etc etc, up until he says something that fits a certain narrative. This hasn't even been mentioned anymore in over 2 months and you're still using a 2 month old tweet for it.

And didn't df already say there's no vrs in the Ps5? This what you guys like to call "fud". Just like Jason saying "The ps5 has advantages they just haven't communicated yet". If they had to power advantage, we'd never even here about ssd. But guess what, ssd is the only advantage it has and its all we hear about.

It's not about the people hes replying to it's about red gaming tech and the above tweet is even more recent and hes still behind it.

The ps4 pro has features from the unreleased Vega architecture so it can happen.

Rapid packed math I believe it was.
 
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GermanZepp

Member
Yes you're whining, what did you think you've been doing all along or should one consider it intentional baiting?
You are derailing the thread because you can't seem to accept rejection unless you're under yet another assumption that you're owed something.
I suggest you suck it up and leave it as is, I have no interest in you and quoted as specific person, your action(s) are rude and undermining, surely someone that was properly raised would receive these values from home?

Dude, If you don't like the thread stop posting on it. Keep your unresolved personal issues out.
 

Thirty7ven

Banned
What people are missing about RDNA 3 and PS5 is that it isn't the case that PS5 will use RDNA 3 features, it is the other way around, it's RDNA 3 that will have PS5 features. When Mark Cerny talked about an AMD GPU coming out with similar features to PS5, this is what he was talking about.

It's the kind of thing that takes me back to comments by AMD people, and these were mentioned pages back, on how AMD's Lisa Su referred to MS's work on XSX as a beacon of innovation. When it came time to talk about the work on PS5, she picked other words, saying how Cerny was looking to revolutionize the next decade of console gaming.

These words combined, it seems fitting to conclude that RDNA 3 will implement PS5 specific features. It also drives home the idea that PS5 and XSX are not the same systems but with different clocks, they are in fact substantially different designs that just so happen to talk the same language.
 
What people are missing about RDNA 3 and PS5 is that it isn't the case that PS5 will use RDNA 3 features, it is the other way around, it's RDNA 3 that will have PS5 features. When Mark Cerny talked about an AMD GPU coming out with similar features to PS5, this is what he was talking about.

It's the kind of thing that takes me back to comments by AMD people, and these were mentioned pages back, on how AMD's Lisa Su referred to MS's work on XSX as a beacon of innovation. When it came time to talk about the work on PS5, she picked other words, saying how Cerny was looking to revolutionize the next decade of console gaming.

These words combined, it seems fitting to conclude that RDNA 3 will implement PS5 specific features. It also drives home the idea that PS5 and XSX are not the same systems but with different clocks, they are in fact substantially different designs that just so happen to talk the same language.

If anything I'm thinking that some of the I/O features that Sony developed could integrate themselves into AMD chips.

What I see as the most revolutionary part of next gen systems is their I/O. Everything else are pretty much just upgraded but these systems I/O might redefine how I/O systems are built.

But for the most part I think it's just PR from AMD with both systems.
 

quest

Not Banned from OT
What people are missing about RDNA 3 and PS5 is that it isn't the case that PS5 will use RDNA 3 features, it is the other way around, it's RDNA 3 that will have PS5 features. When Mark Cerny talked about an AMD GPU coming out with similar features to PS5, this is what he was talking about.

It's the kind of thing that takes me back to comments by AMD people, and these were mentioned pages back, on how AMD's Lisa Su referred to MS's work on XSX as a beacon of innovation. When it came time to talk about the work on PS5, she picked other words, saying how Cerny was looking to revolutionize the next decade of console gaming.

These words combined, it seems fitting to conclude that RDNA 3 will implement PS5 specific features. It also drives home the idea that PS5 and XSX are not the same systems but with different clocks, they are in fact substantially different designs that just so happen to talk the same language.
So not only did cerny invent the SSD, hardware io, now he is engineering rdna3. I just love the Sony narratives. Does he have time to engineer the zen4? Can't wait for the next one. Maybe the PS5 has some rdna6 technology in it that shit futuristic lol.

The guy was a principal software engineer at Sony and developed for the PS5. I'm sure you know a lot more than him!

Also, look at that fancy Celeron 5200 overclocked to 5.2GHz, much be better than the XBSX processor!
So you mean doing more per clock is better but only where sony slower lol? Clocking to the moon has always been bad. People even tried to defend netbust.
 

Handy Fake

Member
So not only did cerny invent the SSD, hardware io, now he is engineering rdna3. I just love the Sony narratives. Does he have time to engineer the zen4? Can't wait for the next one. Maybe the PS5 has some rdna6 technology in it that shit futuristic lol.


So you mean doing more per clock is better but only where sony slower lol? Clocking to the moon has always been bad. People even tried to defend netbust.
Nah, he said that (paraphrasing here): if the work they've done with AMD makes it into their next generation of chips, then they'll know they've done a good job.
As Thirty7ven Thirty7ven says, it's that way around. Sony partnered with AMD to come up with new technologies which will be exhibited in the new console, and if it works and works well then that technology will be incorporated into AMD's next gen chipsets. It's not exactly a mind-blowing revelation.
 
T

Three Jackdaws

Unconfirmed Member
I see people are arguing the RDNA 3 and Zen 3 stuff again. I don't think it's out the realm of possibility,

in fact Mark Cerny himself pretty much gave this away in his infamous technical talk:

"we have our own needs for Playstation so that can factor into what the AMD roadmap becomes"

As far as I am aware, it was RedGamingTech who first broke the news of the PS5 APU sharing some features with RDNA 3 and Zen 3, everyone else who reported this information did so after him. He also recently said that the Series X APU will also have features from future roadmaps as well so the insecure fanboys can chill out.

Initially RedGamingTech was never explicitly told that PS5 may have RDNA 3 or Zen 3 features, he was just told by the source that he should look at what Sony have done in the past with their customised CPU/GPU and he'll get an understanding of what is happening inside the PS5 APU, this is an obvious reference to PS4 Pro's APU featuring RapidPackedMath, which was a feature not available on AMD's Polaris but was later featured in the Vega GPUs. This was months ago and RedGamingTech has began doubling down on his claims because of other sources pretty much confirming this.

As for the specifics of these features, I think he did go into some detail about them in some of his videos. He did state that the PS5's Zen 2 will have unified CCX Clusters to reduce latency, this feature is not on Zen 2 but will be found on Zen 3. As for the GPU, I think he did go over what the specifics of these would be but I don't recall, I'll have to go back and watch some of his videos. Again just to reiterate, according to RedGamingTech both PS5 and Series X will feature customisations found in future AMD Roadmaps.
 

Sinthor

Gold Member
I think it's WAY better to have the two separate OTs, especially if they will be under strict moderation. We saw tens (hundreds?) of PS5 and XBX oriented threads in the past half a year, where each one of them sooner or later turned into nothing but console warring between two camps and got closed eventually, even tho some people had genuine discussions about a particular tech/solution/rumor. Bare in mind there are only so many mods here and they cannot keep up with every single post, so once they jump into a thread it's often already too late and it's just better/easier to just close it. This OT isn't any better, this is where the vast majority of bans come from, but that's exactly because it's being constantly moderated, so having two OTs will separate the flaming camps, and whenever someone will try to derail an OT he will get his "reward", while others would still be able to continue the discussion.




That's exactly my point - if it's not confirmed=it's not there, and there's no reason to do circles about it, which always end up with nothing but flaming. Like the PS5 GPU being RDNA1/2/3 for example - it's RDNA2, it's been clearly stated multiple times, especially during GCN presentation by Cerny himself, dunno why people keep talking about it, there are just some people who desperately try to make it look worse than it is as well as people who desperately try to make it look better than it is, that's what all those "speculations" are mostly about, and nothing good comes out of it. VRS hasn't been confirmed for the PS5, so it's not there, Primitive Shaders haven't been confirmed for XBX, so it's not there, and so on. The way I see those "speculations" is like Elon Musk didn't say there isn't a V8 in the next Tesla so people keep speculating about it indeed being under the hood, it just doesn't make any sense at all...



But all of that can be discussed in the respective OTs, no?

There is still so much we don't know about both new consoles, let alone the rumored 'Lockhart' entry from MS that this thread is still completely valid. Just a few things about XSX we don't know- overall performance, how RT is handled and what impact it has on performance, how the split memory design will impact games/performance, what overall I/O throughput will be. For the PS5- Backwards compatibility- what is it and how does it work, I/O performance, how support for other drives and potential upgrades to storage will be handled, cooling system, ports. That's just a few things off the top of my head. Oh, and pricing and release dates of course. Until we have that information, this 'speculation' thread is indeed warranted and will continue to be the primarily used thread, IMHO.
 
I have been trying to think outside the box as to why Sony would not show the back of the PS5 as well as the overall size of the PS5 . We already know about the possible new PSVR and the storage expansion and even at the higher GPU clocks the PS5 would likely run cooler then the XSX so it must be something else that we aren't seeing to account for the size.

I had the thought, What if the PS5 was upgrade able to a pro version and the size of the PS5 was to be able to cool the expanded pro version ?

I know it sounds nuts but these consoles are more and more PC like so why support multiple consoles when a single upgrade-able version can be made day one which will allow launch consoles to have the same experience as those at the end of the generation ( if a mid gen refresh was planned)

I'm not holding my breath but I thought I'd throw that out for discussion.
 

Neo Blaster

Member
Assumption one, did I at any time write that this thread has no value? No, responded to Bill O'Rights that is is better of split for reasons I won't repeat.
Assumption two, you assume the what the basis of my request. Can you tell the difference between a request and suggestion? Apparently not.
Assumption three, just because someone writes something doesn't automatically mean you or anyone else should feel inclined to respond, time and again especially when they are not being spoken to.
Assumption four, while I agree to an extent that it is there to discuss you fail to take notice that I addressed someone specific, you undermined him and can't let go ever since.
Assumption five, it is not a personal attack nor vulgar, if you had proper upbringing this discussion would have ended long ago yet time and again I have to respond as you feel that I'm interested in what you have to say.
I don't, I don't care about you or anything that you have to say, I've been trying to make this clear in the last 3 posts now, I am responding because it is what a proper adult does even when forced into it.
Hopefully this response is to your satisfaction, you will make less assumptions, read properly and carefully and not jump at very post that disagrees with your personal beliefs/disbliefs.

I stand by what I said about closing this topic and your numerous posts re-affirms that, now this time hopefully you will stop quoting me and the thread can stay and/or go back on-topic.
Man, just move on, you already suggested this thread should be closed, why are you even still here if you don't like it?
 
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Neo Blaster

Member
I have been trying to think outside the box as to why Sony would not show the back of the PS5 as well as the overall size of the PS5 . We already know about the possible new PSVR and the storage expansion and even at the higher GPU clocks the PS5 would likely run cooler then the XSX so it must be something else that we aren't seeing to account for the size.

I had the thought, What if the PS5 was upgrade able to a pro version and the size of the PS5 was to be able to cool the expanded pro version ?

I know it sounds nuts but these consoles are more and more PC like so why support multiple consoles when a single upgrade-able version can be made day one which will allow launch consoles to have the same experience as those at the end of the generation ( if a mid gen refresh was planned)

I'm not holding my breath but I thought I'd throw that out for discussion.
tenor.gif
 

xacto

Member
I have been trying to think outside the box as to why Sony would not show the back of the PS5 as well as the overall size of the PS5 . We already know about the possible new PSVR and the storage expansion and even at the higher GPU clocks the PS5 would likely run cooler then the XSX so it must be something else that we aren't seeing to account for the size.

I had the thought, What if the PS5 was upgrade able to a pro version and the size of the PS5 was to be able to cool the expanded pro version ?

I know it sounds nuts but these consoles are more and more PC like so why support multiple consoles when a single upgrade-able version can be made day one which will allow launch consoles to have the same experience as those at the end of the generation ( if a mid gen refresh was planned)

I'm not holding my breath but I thought I'd throw that out for discussion.

I want to believe you. That would be a MOVE from Sony... but... until we get that teardown, everything is still on the table.
 
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