Impressive.
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Ninja Gaiden 2 Black Announced | Available Today on Console, PC, and Xbox Game Pass
Impressive.
Larsowitz
Member
I had to test it, here are my results:
I always started counting frames the moment the A button was fully depressed, and I tried to press it in as fast as possible each time...
this isn't the most accurate way to test input lag, but it gives a ballpack estimate.
I also tested each game with 5 jumps, and looked for discrepancies. but each time I timed each press for each version, the frames of lag were very similar and all within 1 frame of margin of error.
this is recorded at 240fps, this means each frame is 4.17ms long, keep that in mind. I am counting camera frames, not in-engine frames here.
feel free to set the youtube player to 0.25x speed to see it more clearly
I think the jump does have a start-up lag that isn't tied to the game's input lag.
as mashing the right stick to the side and looking for the camera to start turning feels more responsive than pressing jump in all versions.
but that's way harder to accurately test.
Thanks for testing this!
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saintjules
Gold Member
Can we turn this into an OT somehow?
Reizo Ryuu
Member
This is not that type of game, ryu can take quite a bit of damage and the mindset has always been to just "die slower than your enemies".
I believe there's only one documented case of someone going through the original on the highest difficulty with zero damage, because you'd have to enjoy torturing yourself to even attempt it.
Timberwolf25
Member
Reizo Ryuu
Member
Yeah that's the guy, I dunno if anyone else did it as well after him.Some people love the pain
Team Andromeda
Member
This remake is fecking awesome and looks so much better than the crap coming from Platinum Games
Larsowitz
Member
Timberwolf25
Member
Hopefully they have some people working on a patch to bring some additional content, modes, etc
SkylineRKR
Member
I play them right now. They are legit. I did beat the first 8 or so, a few on MN. But the 100 enemies and the coliseum etc are fucking hard. Bosses join the fray too.
You can choose costume colors, upload scores etc.. kind of weird that it boots you back to the main menu each time but its a fun mode. I think they beat Sigma and Blacks Tag mode.
Spainkiller
the man who sold the world
They're more photo realistic, not necessarily better. NG4's are way more stylized. Some prefer that.
Personally, I think NG2Black's graphics sometimes aren't even as good as the original's.
kevboard
Member
I mean... maybe on PC set to native 4K...
but on console the UE5iness of it makes many things look extremely unstable with dithering, smearing and generally low image quality.
and at 120fps it looks far worse than even the original Xbox 360 version
how NG4 will look on console in the end hard to tell, but I almost bet it will have better image quality
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Hollowpoint5557
A Fucking Idiot
I can't even begin to explain how much I hate this game. It's probably a "get good" situation but I can't be bothered to put in the time to get good. The camera sucks, it looks smothered in Vaseline, I hate the blocking/parry system, the combos stink. It's all just so terrible. I understand I'm in the minority here. Oh, and there is absolutely no excuse for it to be 85GB file size. Ridiculous.
tomato shrub
Member
Every GIF I see online makes me want to play this more and more. But I'll be riding out physical media until the end baby, so it's an April game for me. I might replay NG1 (and maybe even Razors Edge) in the meantime.
RedC
Member
It's why I love the original Xbox 360 version enhanced at 4k and Auto HDR on Series X, which is only 7.7 GB file size.
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Buggy Loop
Gold Member
Man, it might not be the best looking game on a technical point of view but I am sometime in awe, especially during a fight (can't screenshot! no time for that!) in these environments and how smooth and the sparks fly off and how fluid the combat is.
I love it
I love it
Generic
Member
The camera is the hardest foe in Ninja Gaiden.
TheDuskwalker
Member
"Based on the feedback received, we are preparing a patch aimed for release in mid-February with some balance adjustments and additional features."
Reizo Ryuu
Member
Additional features?
NeverYouMind
Member
I wonder what they have in mind? I do not think they are going to recreate vanilla NG2 experience. Would be nice to hear that they shrunk the size though instead of it growing uncontrollably.
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Larsowitz
Member
If KT is really serious about NG then they would fully patch it and give players the option to choose between both the original 360 and the sigma 2 version.
However, it would require some reverse engineering effort and I do not believe this is possible to achieve mid-Feb. So let’s see what they come up with.
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adamsapple
Or is it just one of Phil's balls in my throat?
TheDuskwalker
Member
Since that, windmill shuriken, and using any character in chapter challenge levels is unfortunately probably out of the question, other things I would like:
Restoration of NG+ like NGII, even NG3RE had that despite chapter challenge.
Being able to buy missed upgrade items from the shop for a large fee like NGII.
At least have some enemy spawns in empty rooms that weren't empty in NGII.
When aim assist is enabled, please prioritize flying enemies and archers like NG3, and maybe a better reticle when it's turned off like NGII.
For the women's levels in story mode (I will just call the main game that for convenience) to have the same enemy health values as Ryu's levels in story mode. It's funny because in chapter challenge the enemy's health is set to default for there levels, like Ryu's story mode levels, but then in story mode they're inflated. Makes absolutely no sense for the first time playthrough version of there levels to be artifically harder than the post game versions. I thought it was dumb and weird in Sigma 2, and even more so now.
A option to disable those 3 levels when starting a new game would also work.
As for additional features, well it's currently just outright missing some costumes and modes avaliable in the Master Collection version of Sigma 2. Hopefully some of that content is restored in future updates.
Also hopefully they patch in a option to add back online co-op for tag missions. There is only so many times I can see AI Rachel go down before I want to choke a bitch. Then again online would probably end with the same results.
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Larsowitz
Member
I found this on the pc performance thread on resetera:
********************************
Apparently, Ninja Gaiden 2 Black is running on top of Sigma 2, and Unreal Engine is only used to render the visuals.
Not only that, but all the original models from NGS2 are in the game, with animations re-targeted to the new models (including for cut-scenes) Then, the old ones are simply hidden, which bloats NG2B by about 5GB, due to textures and even extra costumes (!).
There's also a persistent level that never gets swapped out, with additional level data constantly being loaded in (likely for NGS2's game state in the background).
All of this could explain the camera behavior and also the added latency issues.
********************************
Very interesting. This also means that there no hope for a proper original 360 patch.
TheDuskwalker
Member
Figured as much. Explains the reports of dropped inputs in 120FPS mode. Sigma 2 is probably still running at 60 underneath.
Reizo Ryuu
Member
Super easy difficulty option
SkylineRKR
Member
Still clueless about how this is NG2 Black, or even ends up being it. Even if they include the original, they need to incorporate many missing features + extras to even make it worthwhile of the Black title. NG Black was a heavily improved and rebalanced version of NG1, losing intercept though, which was broken. And the NES games.
Its right now an improved Sigma 2 since that game is clearly the base. Its campaign is 100% a carbon copy of Sigma 2 sans the 2 awful statue bosses which is weird that they only omitted these 2 events... even Hayashit must've hated these. Game is every bit as easy as Sigma 2, if you're not a first timer you can safely start on Mentor, which is easier than OG on Warrior.
But, Team Ninja did offer us something that it isn't. And I guess this is why they would shadow drop this.
Its right now an improved Sigma 2 since that game is clearly the base. Its campaign is 100% a carbon copy of Sigma 2 sans the 2 awful statue bosses which is weird that they only omitted these 2 events... even Hayashit must've hated these. Game is every bit as easy as Sigma 2, if you're not a first timer you can safely start on Mentor, which is easier than OG on Warrior.
But, Team Ninja did offer us something that it isn't. And I guess this is why they would shadow drop this.
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Miles708
Member
Dude it's a miracle enough this game exists at all
Buggy Loop
Gold Member
For sure when I play the game and dismember heads with falcon talons and having a blast with blood spurting everywhere, I’m wondering « is it truely black? »
No
SkylineRKR
Member
Master Collection isn't even that old.
For sure when I play the game and dismember heads with falcon talons and having a blast with blood spurting everywhere, I’m wondering « is it truely black? »
No
Apparently a good number of NG fans.
Giallo Corsa
Member
Almost done with my mentor playthrough and...this is just Sigma 2 with added gore and the removal of 2 bosses, that's it.
In fact, they might as well have called it Ninja Gaiden 2 Sigma : bloody edition.
Also, to those not giving a shit about the changes (or should I say, lack thereof)...sorry but it's one of those cases whether you "get" it or don't :
- Empty hallways upon empty hallways.
- Lootable chests which basically become USELESS since they keep showering you with blue and red essence which you don't need them 'cause the challenge level is way, way too low.
- Useless ranged combat : ranged enemies are not a challenge anymore, just a minor inconvenience for you to stop and start shooting arrows which are also infinite, they're just there to break the flow of combat and bust your balls - not due to the added difficulty but actual boredom.
- Levels featuring water might as well have been cut (Venice/South America) since there's ZERO challenge about them anymore due to the lack of jellyfish and squid-like tentacle enemies, these levels are downgraded to basically "spam X/A" as to water run or swim through them.
By the way, the underwater camera is still absolutely shit but feels even worse somehow.
- Camera which - somehow - feels even WORSE than both NG2 and Sigma 2.
The "instinct" camera where it points to your objective is also fucked since it activates just by pressing the reset camera button leading to even more camera fuckery moments when stationery - they forgot to put an option where you actually have TO HOLD the friggin' button as to activate it.
- Boss camera which isn't adjustable anymore : in Sigma 2 you could actually lock it to the boss via button press, or, simply unlocked like in NG2, there's no such option anymore, why ?
- The extra character levels remain absolutely dog shit to this day, Momiji's I can digest but Blonde pornstar's and Ayane's ones are absolutely horrid.
Talking about difficulty, their levels are the ONLY hard ones in the entire game due to their shit moves list and lower dismemberment chance and DMG output - Ayane's in particular where it feels like you're slashing through concrete cardboard enemies ad infinitum.
This, for all intents and purposes was/is a quick, sloppily put together hackjob :
The UE5 graphics aren't that good, the good parts from NG2 that could have been added aren't there and everything that's wrong with Sigma 2 has been ported over as-is, this isn't better "balanced", this isn't "finely tuned", this doesn't look much better than the OG releases.
This is - again - just Sigma 2 with added gore, "Black" my arse...
I'm still friggin' crying for spending 50 Eurodollars on this shit, absolute waste of money since there's better and cheaper options out there like NG2 via BC on the XSX/XSS or the MN collection which features 3 games for the same price as this shit.
We've waited so many years for... something, anything NG related and this is what they came out with ? Besides, MN collection came out...what ? 2 years ago ?
This is a cash grab plain and simple, now, I'm just waiting for Alexios's laughing emoji
Wanna spend money for a good hack and slash ? Just go buy DW origins
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Buggy Loop
Gold Member
SkylineRKR
Member
Almost done with my mentor playthrough and...this is just Sigma 2 with added gore and the removal of 2 bosses, that's it.
In fact, they might as well have called it Ninja Gaiden 2 Sigma : bloody edition.
Also, to those not giving a shit about the changes (or should I say, lack thereof)...sorry but it's one of those cases whether you "get" it or don't :
- Empty hallways upon empty hallways.
- Lootable chests which basically become USELESS since they keep showering you with blue and red essence which you don't need them 'cause the challenge level is way, way too low.
- Useless ranged combat : ranged enemies are not a challenge anymore, just a minor inconvenience for you to stop and start shooting arrows which are also infinite, they're just there to break the flow of combat and bust your balls - not due to the added difficulty but actual boredom.
- Levels featuring water might as well have been cut (Venice/South America) since there's ZERO challenge about them anymore due to the lack of jellyfish and squid-like tentacle enemies, these levels are downgraded to basically "spam X/A" as to water run or swim through them.
By the way, the underwater camera is still absolutely shit but feels even worse somehow.
- Camera which - somehow - feels even WORSE than both NG2 and Sigma 2.
The "instinct" camera where it points to your objective is also fucked since it activates just by pressing the reset camera button leading to even more camera fuckery moments when stationery - they forgot to put an option where you actually have TO HOLD the friggin' button as to activate it.
- Boss camera which isn't adjustable anymore : in Sigma 2 you could actually lock it to the boss via button press, or, simply unlocked like in NG2, there's no such option anymore, why ?
- The extra character levels remain absolutely dog shit to this day, Momiji's I can digest but Blonde pornstar's and Ayane's ones are absolutely horrid.
Talking about difficulty, their levels are the ONLY hard ones in the entire game due to their shit moves list and lower dismemberment chance and DMG output - Ayane's in particular where it feels like you're slashing through concrete cardboard enemies ad infinitum.
This, for all intents and purposes was/is a quick, sloppily put together hackjob :
The UE5 graphics aren't that good, the good parts from NG2 that could have been added aren't there and everything that's wrong with Sigma 2 has been ported over as-is, this isn't better "balanced", this isn't "finely tuned", this doesn't look much better than the OG releases.
This is - again - just Sigma 2 with added gore, "Black" my arse...
I'm still friggin' crying for spending 50 Eurodollars on this shit, absolute waste of money since there's better and cheaper options out there like NG2 via BC on the XSX/XSS or the MN collection which features 3 games for the same price as this shit.
We've waited so many years for... something, anything NG related and this is what they came out with ? Besides, MN collection came out...what ? 2 years ago ?
This is a cash grab plain and simple, now, I'm just waiting for Alexios's laughing emoji
Wanna spend money for a good hack and slash ? Just go buy DW origins
Its 98% the same game as the quite recent and still offered Master Collection version of Sigma 2, with updated UE5 visuals and its negatives like lag. And they sell it for 49 bucks, without including 1 and 3. They single out NG2 because it never had such a version unlike NG1. They sell us a piece of their master collection for 49 bucks (if you don't have GP). Its fair to call them out for this. I will take a wait and see approach with 4 now, because these guys are apparently hacks.
Hot5pur
Gold Member
Thanks for saving me some $$. Even though I liked Sigma 2 back in the day, it was mostly because I couldn't play the orignals (only had a PS3).
I did manage to play NG2 on Xbox One X and realized what the hype was about, that is a much more focused and intense experience, whereas NGS2 was watered down in comparison.
How do you lose the code base for NG2 LOL, that is wild.
I don't think Team Ninja exists anymore, and Platinum won't save NG4 either (it's already looking like Revengeance 2, which isn't a bad thing, but it's a far cry from NG).
There was something special about Itagaki, but then again he couldn't recreate anything close to NG either.
I recently played Wanted Dead by some devs from former TN, it was OK, but not magical.
DMC5 was kinda decent, though they should have just made a reboot and just a Dante game, still doesn't touch NG for me.
IMO NG1/2 is peak action gameplay that no one has managed to replicated all this time, absolutely crazy.
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RedC
Member
To be fair, many Japanese studios misplaced or lost their source codes during that period.
MMaRsu
Member
Mod - Hitstop | Microstutter Disable
Anyway I assume AI can reverse engineer the source code in a few years from now anyway.
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Timberwolf25
Member
1.7GB update on Series X. So the patches have started.
Not sure what has been changed as downloading right now
Not sure what has been changed as downloading right now
tomato shrub
Member
I wonder if mid-february to the end of March is enough time to get all the update content on the disc release?
Shadowstar39
Member
Wait what, its 85gb for one game? Instant pass for me. Why are games so damn large anymore? I get new games like stalker, starfield, final fantasy etc... but this? Doesn't make sense.
I have stalker 2, bg3, forza horizon 4, grim dawn and a handful of 360/og Xb games on my xb1.
I had to remove starfield, and forza 7 to get stalker 2 on there. no way. I miss being able to have everything installed and just move back and forth between games.
No way am I paying Micro$haft $150 for a storage expansion. They can suck it!
Seriously, who is in charge over there. Phil Spencer needs to go!
(sony isn't much better but at least you can use different brands and get deals, ps4 i could use a 5gb hd and have 100s of games. Switch a 1tb sd and have 100s of games).
This I hear is also got some modern audience remodelling for the ladies. If so double no for this game.
Plus the cost $50, sorry no deal, 3 strikes - no buy!
I am glad I bought the Ninja Gaiden 2 disc for my series x. It cost me $5 at a antique store.
M$ was charging $30 for an almost 20 year old game. They are greedy for non game pass people.
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Timberwolf25
Member
That's what my version says now, but I'm on console, so I wonder what was patched here. Says super resolution, but that's for PC I'm sure.
Edit: got a new bug where I get flashing neon lighting of multiple colors. Was switching between 60 and 120 fps to see if the difference is as pronounced as before for the resolution. I'm not seeing a big difference, but need others to test. On SeriesX. Rebooting game fixes the bug
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Shadowstar39
Member
Team Ninja is still alive and kicking. They just don't have Itagaki, unless all the team left. I can't see that all the following games show team ninja at the start:
They made Nioh 1 and 2 (amazing games if you haven't played them).
Rise of ronin.
NG Sigma 2, Sigma 2 plus (vita)
NG3 and razors edge
NG master's collection.
Larsowitz
Member
I agree, the TN we know from the 90s - 2008 is gone.
It was always Itagaki and a few other core TN members that were driving Ninja Gaiden’s development.
To develop another NG like game Itagaki would need a financially strong company and team with high technical abilities. He is in his late 50s now, so there is still hope.
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Timberwolf25
Member
New patch. Yup, 120fps see looks terrible compared to 60fps when the action is active.
I just encountered 1st set of enemies post patch and I swear, the difficulty has been increased with more enemies. Maybe, it's a placebo effect on my end, but an area I already cleared and for some reason reset, has more enemies and harder enemies.
Need the hardcore guys that have already played through at least once to test. I'm still on Warrior difficulty, but this does seem harder than when I played last night
I just encountered 1st set of enemies post patch and I swear, the difficulty has been increased with more enemies. Maybe, it's a placebo effect on my end, but an area I already cleared and for some reason reset, has more enemies and harder enemies.
Need the hardcore guys that have already played through at least once to test. I'm still on Warrior difficulty, but this does seem harder than when I played last night
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