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[adamsapple]

From January 2010 Windows went from 93.7% of the desktop market to 73.38% today. Linux from .7% to 4.13% and Mac from 5.16% to 14.16%

Desktop Operating System Market Share Worldwide | Statcounter Global Stats

This graph shows the market share of desktop operating systems worldwide based on over 5 billion monthly page views.

gs.statcounter.com

OSX aside, Linux's little up-tick from 2022 directly coincides with Steam Deck's launch. I very highly doubt you're seeing single digit percent growth in Linux desktop users in that time frame.

 

[Mr Moose]

What's with these silly articles lately? Is dog shit AI happening?

 

[onnextflix5]

You would think ms would have a gaming mode by now right, nope apparently they will have something by the end of the year lol, windows is a complete mess, I highly doubt it’s gonna work very well anyways, they need to Focus on Xbox consoles and the new handheld.

 

[Metnut]

Has Steam Deck even sold 5 million units lifetime? I’m sure Microsoft and Nintendo are really shaking in their boots.

 

[//DEVIL//]

lol steam OS.


You mean the OS that can’t run any competitive online game because there is no anti cheat software that actually works ?

You want the casual gamer or even normal user to learn about Linux commands since half of the shit won’t run unless you do so ?

As a cyber security specialist, I’ll say this is not gonna happen. Not for the next 10 years even

 

[Hero of Spielberg]

It's in decline. It's been in decline for over a decade. The thought that no one is switching to Linux or MacOS when both have seen over a decade of growth is just head in the sand. You and others not being good with Linux isn't going to be a constant barrier for future users.

Unless Linux manages to become the iPhone of operating systems in the next little where everything easier than windows and any halfwit can use it and it works out of the box with all current software, then it has no chance of getting even close to a majority of OS market share.

 

[DoubleClutch]

Unless Linux manages to become the iPhone of operating systems in the next little where everything easier than windows and any halfwit can use it and it works out of the box with all current software, then it has no chance of getting even close to a majority of OS market share.

MacOS = iOS
Linux = Android

 

[namenotfound]

OSX aside, Linux's little up-tick from 2022 directly coincides with Steam Deck's launch. I very highly doubt you're seeing single digit percent growth in Linux desktop users in that time frame.

Unlikely but my belief is that the desktop market is going to become less important for the general consumer over the years and continue to specialized for enthusiast/professional/academic purposes. That doesn't work to the favor of Windows in my opinion especially in the cases of software that is made for immediate short term purpose because Windows benefits from being the default. When I first started on Linux there was no Autodesk Maya support for Linux or Davinci Resolve. Now there is. When I started working for the military, everything was windows based. Operationally everything was commanded through Windows devices. Now progressively Linux workstations are entering the workforce as an option and operationally, more and more are being operated through Red Hat Enterprise Linux based laptops. When I started with Linux there were no hardware vendors that shipped Linux. Then eventually Dell and Lenovo started selling devices with Linux installed. You got companies like Framework and System76 selling machines without any operating system or with Linux. The PC market is huge. 5% of the console market is nothing. 5% of the desktop market is at least tens of millions of devices.

SteamOS runs any Linux software and even before the Steam Deck we saw Autodesk and Blackmagic Design decide to release Linux software. Unity added Linux support over a decade ago. Unreal Engine had experimental Linux support for its editor back when Unreal Tournament wasn't canceled. Lower half single digit percentage market share for desktop Linux and it was progressively getting better support. Maybe not even 2% at the time and when Steam peak concurrent wasn't even half of today. Market share growth will help incentivize more traditionally Mac and Windows only software to release on Linux. And this ARM transition for Windows and eventually RISC-V is a boon for non-Windows devices as cross architecture becomes more important. When I started with the military, you wouldn't make it without a Windows machine with MS Office installed. Eventually many would including myself would be good enough with LibreOffice because all we needed was to write documents, export to PDF, or make a quick slide deck with the most basic stuff. And now we all also have O365 accounts with online based office access. Nowadays I see nonsense like running Red Hat with Windows in a VM to use some old software that hasn't been replaced yet while everything new is operated in Red Hat. Linux growth is a multi-decade project

Unless Linux manages to become the iPhone of operating systems in the next little where everything easier than windows and any halfwit can use it and it works out of the box with all current software, then it has no chance of getting even close to a majority of OS market share.

It doesn't need to be the majority of OS market share. It just needs to grow. Steam Deck in its low sales is already enough to make Steam Deck certified a marketable term worthy enough for publishers/developers to target. Consumer software development is already dominated by frameworks that support cross platform deployment. Any tick down on Windows and a tick up towards MacOS and Linux long term makes supporting either and using cross platform tools more incentivized. Valve with SteamOS and Steam Deck where Linux is at 4-5% market share is more relevant in desktop/laptop/handheld gaming than Apple is with 15% desktop market share. I truly do not believe Windows will grow in market share long term. It will continue to bleed especially to Macs and possible Linux because of gaming centric devices and that'll clear a path for more common in professional settings. I work for the military and I can say that I personally have seen usage of Red Hat on laptops/desktops be practically never to now relatively common especially with new software. The example of taking Linux and making it usable for a halfwit is Android. And in my experience with the military, it's progressively becoming Red Hat where late teens early adults who seldom used desktop operating systems, mostly doing everything on their phone, are operating from a desktop Linux environment. Gaming linux distros are cut down and simpler than that. Actually desktop Linux, Chromebooks. You can run desktop linux software on Chromebooks. Behind the scenes, Android is integrating some stuff to run desktop Linux software in Android

 

[Radical_3d]

Ah, and with the winter came the coldest take ever…

 

[grvg]

Does it, PC gamers of GAF?

I personally play on the deck more than my relatively decent pc. Also, my toddler just destroyedthe spacebaron my computer while I was at work today.

 

[Hero of Spielberg]

MacOS = iOS
Linux = Android

I would argue Android is far more user-friendly than Linux even.

 

[HogIsland]

They shouldn't be afraid at all, they should apply their "this is an Xbox" concept to it and put Game Pass on it.

 

[LavitzSlambert]

Isn't that because it's factoring in Steam Deck into that? And not just desktop PC usage?

Yea and that’s the whole point. Not saying everyone and their mums are installing Ubuntu. It’s that more and more people will say no to Windows. You will see people with a phone for general usage and Steam Deck for gaming. And I’d bet plenty of people would happily ditch Windows if someone told you their $2000 GPU would work on SteamOS.

 

[Crayon]

Yeesh multiquote incoming.

Gabe is about to take over everywhere. Imagine when there are $500-800 console-like SteamOS devices.

But Linux is SteamOS’s biggest weakness for desktop PC gaming. People who know Linux think it’s perfect but once you need to do something more than just sit in Steam and press a play button it’s like trying to type on the keyboard wearing hockey gloves for anyone not used to it. And people already complain that PC gaming in Windows is complicated.
Besides, there needs to be a transition to Linux among developers for SteamOS to get big. Native Linux versions, can’t have any compatibility issues.

That last part - Native linux versions of games is not important any time soon. If they are, I would like to know the reasoning.

The beauty of PC is having access to a wide variety of games, and being able to buy games from multiple sources. SteamOS and the Steam Deck are great, but if you restrict yourself to them, you lose access to a lot of what makes the PC great. Unless you want to go jumping through hoops to load additional launchers onto your device. 99% of users aren't going to do that though.

Fine for deck so far because the thing that usually happens happened - Once there were potential users of gui's and scripts that would make that easy, developers worked on that. When there were just a few people who were going to use it, the solutions were less user friendly. By all accounts, using epic or gog on deck is really easy today thanks to this dynamic. idk maybe we have different definitions of jumping through hoops.

not working, and most non-Steam libraries not working at all, sure. Queue Lord Gaben fellators coming to post hour long Youtube videos about Proton and 3 mile long launch parameters whe

Idk why your quote got chopped like this but I quoted because you said half of your steam library wouldn't work. Just wanted to say that was quite the claim.

If it requires even the most minor dicking around to get things working it's already not worth it to move from Windows.

I'm no expert in windows but does it never require "even the most minor dicking around"? Because that would be amazing.

lol steam OS.


You mean the OS that can’t run any competitive online game because there is no anti cheat software that actually works ?

You want the casual gamer or even normal user to learn about Linux commands since half of the shit won’t run unless you do so ?

As a cyber security specialist, I’ll say this is not gonna happen. Not for the next 10 years even

Online games work. Some companies like bungie or epic have actively blocked linux. In the case of those two, it was claimed to be a matter of linux cheaters.

Idk why you think a gamer or normal user would have to open a terminal to run half of everything. Or anything, really.

...

There's truth to all (well, almost) the complaints above but the trend of overstating the case I think points to my "linux is hard bell curve theory":

Linux expert - Easy
Windows "power user" - Uh oh.
Basic home user - Easy

 

[MrTroubleMaker]

 

[adamsapple]

Yea and that’s the whole point. Not saying everyone and their mums are installing Ubuntu. It’s that more and more people will say no to Windows. You will see people with a phone for general usage and Steam Deck for gaming. And I’d bet plenty of people would happily ditch Windows if someone told you their $2000 GPU would work on SteamOS.

Sure, that's fine. If Switch 2 ships with a Linux based OS, that 4% will probably be 20% in a few years.

It just doesn't really gel with the 'linux's marketshare is increasing so fast guys' argument if it's being presented in the sense of more and more people opting to use Linux on desktop.

 

[BacklashWave534]

Microsoft makes most of their profit from Azure (Including O365). I don't think they care about gaming as much as people think. They haven't even lifted a finger to address the gaming issues with Windows. We are a tiny profit margin overall. Personally i would prefer using a MAC for work and SteamOS for gaming. Can't wait until we get there.

 

[Hero of Spielberg]

I'm no expert in windows but does it never require "even the most minor dicking around"? Because that would be amazing.

For most basic users, it consists of Open installation file > Click Install > Use program. Even less if they just use preinstalled apps.

 

[BacklashWave534]

As much as i would love this to be true. I dont think so. I just dont see linux ever having the support needed for a lot of people to jump ship, and i would love to jump ship. As soon as i can get linux and just download and install everything i could on windows, i'll switch to linux but it's just never ever ever going to happen, but oh boy would i love to be wrong.

As much as i have begun to hate Windows i don't think the majority will ever move to Linux. It's just way to complicated. It you are using just Steam (on SteamOS) it's great. However, i couldn't even begin to imagine how to tell a normie how to install a backed or GOG game. Especially since it usually involes sifting through the linux directory structure and testing several versions of Proton to get stuff to work right.

 

[polybius80]

I would argue Android is far more user-friendly than Linux even.

how is far more user-friendly? what are you comparing to? what you say doesn't even make sense, linux is a kernel, android is a linux distro(an operating system which uses linux kernel) android IS linux+proprietary google stuff

 

[Bry0]

It just doesn't really gel with the 'linux's marketshare is increasing so fast guys' argument if it's being presented in the sense of more and more people opting to use Linux on desktop.

In my opinion I agree with you there, and I think maybe the point some folks are missing is that the desktop part simply isn't all that important. The important part is that is breaks the windows monopoly on playing your PC games. I don't think Valve is particularly interested in selling an operating system for general desktop use here (even though you could use it that way if you wanted) because that isn't the strategic goal of introducing Steam OS to the market.

 

[adamsapple]

In my opinion I agree with you there, and I think maybe the point some folks are missing is that the desktop part simply isn't all that important. The important part is that is breaks the windows monopoly on playing your PC games. I don't think Valve is particularly interested in selling an operating system for general desktop use here (even though you could use it that way if you wanted) because that isn't the strategic goal of introducing Steam OS to the market.

Agreed. I appreciate people's knee-jerk enthusiasm, but Steam OS is most likely not going to be a Windows-replacement.

 

[polybius80]

I don't think Valve is particularly interested in selling an operating system for general desktop use here (even though you could use it that way if you wanted) because that isn't the strategic goal of introducing Steam OS to the market.

how are they going to sell it?

 

[tmlDan]

PC world jizzing on steam again?

 

[Crayon]

For most basic users, it consists of Open installation file > Click Install > Use program. Even less if they just use preinstalled apps.

That's not what we were talking about it all. It was about operating systems being free of any instance of a even minor problems. This is why I'm complaining about overstating the case. It's a dead end.

 

[Hero of Spielberg]

how is far more user-friendly? what are you comparing to? what you say doesn't even make sense, linux is a kernel, android is a linux distro(an operating system which uses linux kernel) android IS linux+proprietary google stuff

Discussion was taking place about how Linux

'It's in decline. It's been in decline for over a decade. The thought that no one is switching to Linux or MacOS when both have seen over a decade of growth is just head in the sand. You and others not being good with Linux isn't going to be a constant barrier for future users.'

I suggested that Linux would need to become as easy to use as iOS for a significant number of people to move to it.

At the moment using Linux is more complicated than using Windows for the vast majority of people.

 

[Bry0]

how are they going to sell it?

They aren't, just like how they are licensing it to Lenovo for free. The business model is around gaining or entrenching steam users, and putting your steam games in your hands on the road, in your living room, and in your VR headset without a dependency on Windows.

 

[gaheris]

Unless you are Apple and people are used to being in their walled garden most people don't care about the OS itself. It's what it allows and Windows has comparability with so much software that is both it's strength and weakness but it gives it the inertia that is hard to ignore. If you are a normal person and want to play modern games on a PC Windows is the choice. In part because you can still get games from Steam and whatever other store you want outside of Apple but they don't play in modern gaming so they don't matter for console and PC like gaming experiences.

 

[Hero of Spielberg]

That's not what we were talking about it all. It was about operating systems being free of any instance of a even minor problems. This is why I'm complaining about overstating the case. It's a dead end.

And I suggest the 'minor problems' encountered for most users of WIndows would pale in comparison to those encountered by those same users if they attempted to use Linux as their OS

 

[Haint]

Idk why your quote got chopped like this but I quoted because you said half of your steam library wouldn't work. Just wanted to say that was quite the claim.



I'm no expert in windows but does it never require "even the most minor dicking around"? Because that would be amazing.

I was in the first shipment of Steamdeck on launch, have 1800 games in my library. I used it until the Rog Ally released. When I gleefully ditched it I think it was only exposing around 500 games as "playable", not prime verified ones mind you, I'm talking ones tagged playable with issues. I would hope they've improved it since then, but frankly I don't care, there are objectively superior alternatives that render it completely moot as a product. 95% of people with extensive Steam libraries also I have hundreds of (free) games on EGS, GOG, and probably PC Gamepass, there's no reason to own a Steamdeck over the alternatives.

And modern windows on a modern system requires surprisingly little dicking, there's a reason Xbox as a console isn't selling, and MS is basically abandoning it. Windows PC's have gobbled up most of its market. You'll only rarely run into problems trying to run older hardware, or in obscure/older games that pretty much require modding to be playable.

 

[Z O N E]

I WANT Linux to grow even more so that Microsoft may actually do some good changes towards Windows, because with how much Microsoft controls the OS space, they have the freedom to go easy and fuck up a lot.

The problem with Linux is that, the MAJORITY of people just want something to work out of the box. The majority of people in the world still don't use an adblocker, so that should tell you how technical they are.

 

[rsouzadk]

LOL

 

[Crayon]

And I suggest the 'minor problems' encountered for most users of WIndows would pale in comparison to those encountered by those same users if they attempted to use Linux as their OS

Depends on the user, or what they're trying to do. Those family members who need me to set up their computers? I've just got two. They get Linux because it's going to do everything they need and I'm not going to get calls about it. Worked out so far.

You get into problems a few rings up the ladder. In between expert somewhere, you have people needing or insisting on a program that's not on Linux and 'making it run' is above their skill level. That's not really on Linux though. Linux users asking for their version are talking about the exact same problem, of course.

But you get up the skill lader a little and you get to the people who are going to install their own os. Without getting into the weeds, that's the level where problems start. Those problems can actual errors by the system or just things that the user has to learn. Either way, most of us here are going to fall between this level and probably a few rungs under an actual expert (or I could say "very strong user").

That means people who are knowingly and unknowingly getting on a learning curve. There was a learning curve to windows too, but when almost every computer you ever used had Windows, that gets spread around a bit.

I was in the first shipment of Steamdeck on launch, have 1800 games in my library. I used it until the Rog Ally released. When I gleefully ditched it I think it was only exposing around 500 games as "playable", not prime verified ones mind you, I'm talking ones tagged playable with issues. I would hope they've improved it since then, but frankly I don't care, there are objectively superior alternatives that render it completely moot as a product. 95% of people with extensive Steam libraries also I have hundreds of (free) games on EGS, GOG, and probably PC Gamepass, there's no reason to own a Steamdeck over the alternatives.

And modern windows on a modern system requires surprisingly little dicking, there's a reason Xbox as a console isn't selling, and MS is basically abandoning it. Windows PC's have gobbled up most of its market. You'll only rarely run into problems trying to run older hardware, or in obscure/older games that pretty much require modding to be playable.

If you only had 500 of 1800 games work, that would explain your dislike of it. I think more than that would work even if they don't have a compatibility rating, though.

 

[Hero of Spielberg]

Depends on the user, or what they're trying to do. Those family members who need me to set up their computers? I've just got two. They get Linux because it's going to do everything they need and I'm not going to get calls about it. Worked out so far.

You get into problems a few rings up the ladder. In between expert somewhere, you have people needing or insisting on a program that's not on Linux and 'making it run' is above their skill level. That's not really on Linux though. Linux users asking for their version are talking about the exact same problem, of course.

But you get up the skill lader a little and you get to the people who are going to install their own os. Without getting into the weeds, that's the level where problems start. Those problems can actual errors by the system or just things that the user has to learn. Either way, most of us here are going to fall between this level and probably a few rungs under an actual expert (or I could say "very strong user").

That means people who are knowingly and unknowingly getting on a learning curve. There was a learning curve to windows too, but when almost every computer you ever used had Windows, that gets spread around a bit.

Agree to disagree with the family members part.

I've had people make similar arguments about how setting up a Plex server for family to use is as easy as them using Netflix.

That's all great until they need to watch a new show or in the case of Linux, open an Excel file or something.

 

[FunkMiller]

As I use my laptop for work and gaming, I'd need SteamOS to be able to run the software I use for work (the regular Office programs, One Drive etc.), as well as email and internet functionality. Give me that, and I'd drop Windows in a fucking heartbeat.

 

[Crayon]

As I use my laptop for work and gaming, I'd need SteamOS to be able to run the software I use for work (the regular Office programs), as well as email and internet functionality. Give me that, and I'd drop Windows in a fucking heartbeat.

We just switched to o365 at work and I use the browser for all of it. I have to look into the app versions more because IDK what the advantage is.

 

[Luc2010]

Shit, most people can barely turn on a PC. Lol

 

[Raven77]

Not at all imo.

It's a good entry point into the PC world and a nice device to play indies and older games, but for everything else a good PC is where it's at.

No offense but this is spoken like someone who's never played a steam deck.

I just started playing baldur's gate 3 on my deck and have it maxed out, runs great and looks gorgeous. It's absolutely NOT just for older games and indies (even though that was my primary reason to get one).

 

[CrustyBritches]

SteamOS is an insurance policy against MS pulling some shit with Windows that Valve doesn't approve of. It's my belief that's the main driver behind the creation of the Steam Deck.

 

[Fess]

That last part - Native linux versions of games is not important any time soon. If they are, I would like to know the reasoning.

People can hesitate just moving between Windows versions because there is this minimal 0.01% risk of something not working on their 30 yo favorite game or whatever. There can’t be any ”it’s not quite perfect but it works” scenarios or janky workarounds. And not just for Steam, literally everything has to work the same way, on every launcher, EGS, Gamepass, on every program, big and small, on mods, etc. No actually, it needs to be better. Otherwise it’ll just continue to be a niche thing. And I don’t see that happening unless devs in masses start making native Linux versions.

 

[Alexios]

Gonna be a long while be4 it can work on any specification, support everyone's random usb devices, etc., it's different when the system is basically closed and locked as Steam Deck.

Then again future PC hardware and software may be even further streamlined so they need to do less work to support the vast majority of stuff and for the rest, leave drivers to devs.

 

[//DEVIL//]

Yeesh multiquote incoming.



That last part - Native linux versions of games is not important any time soon. If they are, I would like to know the reasoning.



Fine for deck so far because the thing that usually happens happened - Once there were potential users of gui's and scripts that would make that easy, developers worked on that. When there were just a few people who were going to use it, the solutions were less user friendly. By all accounts, using epic or gog on deck is really easy today thanks to this dynamic. idk maybe we have different definitions of jumping through hoops.



Idk why your quote got chopped like this but I quoted because you said half of your steam library wouldn't work. Just wanted to say that was quite the claim.



I'm no expert in windows but does it never require "even the most minor dicking around"? Because that would be amazing.



Online games work. Some companies like bungie or epic have actively blocked linux. In the case of those two, it was claimed to be a matter of linux cheaters.

Idk why you think a gamer or normal user would have to open a terminal to run half of everything. Or anything, really.

...

There's truth to all (well, almost) the complaints above but the trend of overstating the case I think points to my "linux is hard bell curve theory":

Linux expert - Easy
Windows "power user" - Uh oh.
Basic home user - Easy

linux while its awesome, is not a user friendly for your avarage kids or even adults or worse, seniors.

and not just these games. 90% of the games that are competitve dont work. even call of duty. so no. it doesnt work lol.

steam OS is a nice system for what it is. but its not Windows when it comes to gaming. hell, even Apple at one point was excited for gaming on Apple computers then gave up almost lol.

 

[existensmaximum]

Dont know exactly what you need, but on Linux you can get lots of equivalents to Windows programs....unless its something super specific niche stuff you use on Windows. And these are usually all free, no cloud shit, no calling home....sometimes just even better than the win stuff.

Does it have Adobe Photoshop, Lightroom, Premiere and Illustrator working flawlessly? Not exactly super specific niche stuff, but extremely important software used by many many professionals and hobby users alike.

 

[Rocinante618]

Handhelds - maybe but I doubt Xbox cares about offline games on handhelds as they would probably go full cloud/online streaming for their systems.

Desktop - lmao, Windows is unbeatable, DirectX is THE standard API, there is simply no way anything else will catch up to this as DirectX is ~30 years old, stable, robust and feature rich.

 

[ChorizoPicozo]

People thinking MS gives a shit about gaming to have some sinister plan to fuck valve is very funny.

and people simping for Linux like it's the lord and savior are delulu as well.

the only thing we are witnessing is the monopoly backlash against windows.

 

[existensmaximum]

That's not what we were talking about it all. It was about operating systems being free of any instance of a even minor problems. This is why I'm complaining about overstating the case. It's a dead end.

Well the thing is I guess, we're used to dicking around with Windows since the 90s or whatever depending on how old we are. Maybe we don't even see it as problems anymore. None of us love it, but we sure as hell aren't keen on learning the new dicking around in Linux after it.

I'm sure most of us *could* learn it but we just don't care to do it. Especially if it involves searching every forum and Reddit thread on the Internet just to have a chance of getting the thing to work.

Linux people are fantastic and super helpful, but the solutions are often a lot more cumbersome than anything you'll need to do in Windows.

 

[DoubleClutch]

Handhelds - maybe but I doubt Xbox cares about offline games on handhelds as they would probably go full cloud/online streaming for their systems.

Desktop - lmao, Windows is unbeatable, DirectX is THE standard API, there is simply no way anything else will catch up to this as DirectX is ~30 years old, stable, robust and feature rich.

Uhh… Vulkan??

 

[The Cockatrice]

It would take another 15 years for SteamOS to dominate Windows. If it stays as is, it'll never dominate windows. We do more on Windows than just play games.

 

[thief183]

If Steam OS or any other Linux based system will manage to become usable I'd probably switch in an instant.

I already have only 1 of 4 PC with Windows installed and can't wait to remove that malware from it.

 

[Gamezone]

Can't fear something that isn't broadly avaliable for everyone.