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Penn Gillette defends violent media (and Call of Duty) on a talk show
- Thread starter GrizzNKev
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As long as economics doesn't come up, I agree.
I don't disagree with him about mass shootings, I think it's just irresponsible to say "Mass shootings are rare, therefore let's not worry about guns".
Gun violence occurs outside mass shootings, and guns are just one issue of a multifaceted issue that most likely explains exactly why violent crime is soooo high in the US compared to pretty much any other developed nation. You need to address gun culture, you need to address poverty and social nets, you need to address the effects of locking people up so easily (1/6th of people in the US in jail because of marijuanna related crimes, criminals much more likely to become reliant on the system or repeat crime in the US, disproportionately high amount of minorities in the system etc).
Tackling just ONE of these problems doesn't do the issue of violent crime justice, tackling them all is what will get you the best results.
Violent crime actually kills people - it kills a lot of people. Let's not just point out mass shootings. I agree that things -should- be prioritized, but it's not as simple as "okay, lets solve pools first then we'll move on to the next one". Prioritization doesn't mean tackling things one at a time, it means putting emphasis on things that are more important to emphasize. I think that drownings require LESS prioritization than violent crime because a lot of drownings you can't do much about, you can educate parents to be careful when they take their kids to the beach or to a lake or to the pool - you can tell them to build fences around their pools in their backyards, but that's -basically- it. With violent crime, there are SOOOO many factors that play into it, and violent crime effects more than just children, it effects everyone. Violent crime is also just ONE symptom of the many issues you find in societies that need to be resolved, so... again, it's not as simple as putting it in a vertical list and calling it a day.
And there are a few correlative studies that propose guns don't really make you safer. It's 'obvious' because it's not like there is any info missing here - more guns means more death by guns. If we look at other countries, like for example Canada, they aren't THAT different than the US in a lot of aspects, but look at a city like Toronto - we do our best to tackle our social issues and to reduce the amount of guns on the street, and there really is an anti-gun culture here - for our 6+million population, we had 75 homicides in 2011. I'm not saying I know -exactly- why that is, but it should be looked into, considered. You need to ask the sorts of questions like "maybe the fact that only 1% of the population owns a gun has a part to play in that, considering that 40% of all crimes committed with guns in the US originate from a legal purchase". I can go on and on, but there is a lot more that REALLY highlights why there are so many people who want to tackle gun culture alongside other social issues in the US.
Xdrive05
Member
We could use more economic libertarians of the non-dogmatic variety. If we can find them.
NathanMcMahon
Banned
Amazing. I love Penn. He's always been a deep thinker and it's nice to see him attempt to stay above the fray.
I feel like he was also trying to limit the perspective to child safety. Then again he didn't get much of a chance to say anything, since they more or less brought him on the show in a failed attempt to humiliate him.
timetokill
Banned
I don't think the message was to "not worry about guns" but more that the idea that "guns are the problem" is missing the point if the end goal is greater public safety. The vast majority of gun owners in the US are not killing people with or without them. Just as the vast majority of people with aspergers are not killing people.
The implication that gun owners or people with aspergers are simply ticking time bombs is insulting as fuck and counterproductive.
If you're concerned about child safety, protecting them from gun massacres is really, really fucking low on the list of probable dangers.
Penn coming in with some reason and truth. It's scary to think if he wasn't on that panel the whole audience would be clapping brainwash style "hur dur videogames are bad and violent", "hurr durr lets take 350 million guns off the streets".
Whenever debating someone, facts and logic will always prevail.
Please do tell.
Whenever debating someone, facts and logic will always prevail.
Please do tell.
Classy.
Escape Goat
Member
always wondered who Wendy Williams was. She had her own talk show for no apparent reason.
Jill Sandwich
the turds of Optimus Prime
This is just uncomfortable to watch the level of stupidity here.
He talked a lot, in those 10 minutes.
And he actually made his points pretty clear (mainly by raising his voice, unfortunately, but those seem to be the rules of the house), so not too shabby for him.
davepoobond
you can't put a price on sparks
Even within the realm of "gun violence" the amount of people dead by mass shootings is small compared to the rest of the people that die every year.
I don't know the exact numbers, but I'm sure that it is more than the 100 or so between the movie theater and Newtown. Those events are famous from this year, but what about the hundreds of people that are murdered every year?
You can't just "take it all on" because then you're left with ineffectual strategies for all of them.
A Pretty Panda
fuckin' called it, man
I did not know Sue Simmons has been around for that long.
immortal-joe
Member
I think Penn expected this and thought "Let's see if I can make it without hitting someone". The difference is all these women are running their mouths for the sake of it, saying the first thing that comes to mind and playing for the customary applause.
Penn is trying to use logic and actually formulate his ideas clearly while carefully explaining why he thinks that way.
The dumbest people are often the ones who never, EVER say "I dont know" about a topic, and would rather run their mouths anyway out of fear that staying quiet makes them look stupid.
Penn is trying to use logic and actually formulate his ideas clearly while carefully explaining why he thinks that way.
The dumbest people are often the ones who never, EVER say "I dont know" about a topic, and would rather run their mouths anyway out of fear that staying quiet makes them look stupid.
Xdrive05
Member
Only to people who care about facts and logic. Rhetoric and charisma usually prevail. Consider the fanaticism of that crowd, whipped into that self-righteous frenzy. Penn didn't reach any significant number of them. And he was right (at least on the factual claims).
Bill Maher's audience is about as bad as it gets for host-fellatio. But this was worse.
IrishNinja
Member
I'm not sure what you mean by this? When I brought up the realm of 'gun violence' I made it to highlight that gun violence encompasses much more than mass shootings.
I think that using the mass shootings to jump into a discussion about violent crime in general isn't necessarily a bad idea. It's not like people who want gun control want it just to stop mass shootings, they want it to reduce homicides in general. There are over 10,000 intentional homicides per year in the US, where the killer uses a gun. Luckily this number is going down, and we need to keep working to continue that trend.
Who says? You think the US only has enough time, resources and social services to tackle one issue at a time? Do you think symptoms like violent crime are the result of only one issue, and not usually the result of many variables coming together? There isn't just one guy looking to fix all the problems in the US, there are hundreds of thousands, if not millions.
what?
davepoobond
you can't put a price on sparks
most, if not all, of the discussion in this video was to stop mass shootings and keeping guns out of the hands of people who are "crazy" or have "mental issues."
no, not necessarily. but if what you were saying were absolutely the case we'd still have a competent space program and accessible mental health services and getting rid of our homeless problems.
the truth is that we don't and there is a finite amount of money and time to deal with "all of the issues." You have to pick and choose.
Razgriz-Specter
Member
She is not supposed to be taken seriously.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SsGwIJBNOiI
Show is gold for The Soup though.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SsGwIJBNOiI
Show is gold for The Soup though.
TimeEffect
Member
"Call of Duty is art"
I liked you, Gillette.
Also, my ears hurt
I liked you, Gillette.
Also, my ears hurt
All games are art, just like all paintings are art. Some are better than others and taste is subjective.
I'm not sure how we've gotten to this point in the conversation, but I never once defended those ladies in the video, they're all pretty stupid. Maybe not the CNN girl, but the other two definitely. But I've already told you a couple of times I think that focusing on mass shootings is irresponsible - but I mean that for BOTH Penn and those ladies. Shootings, heck, violent crime in general is what needs to be focused on.
I agree here - that you need to pick and choose, I guess what my point was, is that you should pick and choose the right things. My general proposals would be
1. Make private prisons illegal - it removes any opportunity for corruption and lobbying that might influence prison populations.
2. Decriminalize marijuanna - you'll reduce the amount of prisoners dramatically, and remove people from the perpetual prison cycle (or poverty) they get thrown into because of it.
3. Make efforts to encourage a more 'gun free' society, this... is complicated, and I wouldn't really know how to approach it. This is less realistic in the US (I think, I really don't know what it's like there) but I think there are plenty of anti-gun organizations in the US who are trying their best to do so.
We could use more economic libertarians of the non-dogmatic variety. If we can find them.
It has become a meaningless label and an umbrella for morons to hide under when they're ashamed to admit they are a republican.
meltingparappa
Member
I agree and go by Scott "Understanding Comics" McCloud definition of "anything you do in your spare time as a means of expression" is art.
That was a completely repugnant thing for her to claim, but sadly has been all over the place in the wake of this.Router said:
Holy fuck she is annoying.
I think this is a case of not knowing how stupid you look.
Glorious. And true.
timetokill
Banned
:lol
Really now. I guess corruption in public institutions is just unheard of?
Yup, very obvious but the government doesn't seem to think the amount of prisoners we have is an issue.
It's really not like everyone is just walking around with guns everywhere in America. There are a lot of owned guns but they're stored away, only taken to ranges or hunting, etc.
If you were walking around randomly in most places and were told that guns had been eradicated (other than cops), you'd believe them at least on visual appearances in the vast majority of the country.
Fantastical
Death Prophet
I think they just talked about banning assault weapons. This is gun control they're talking about, not gun elimination.
Not that I'm defending all of what they said, but Jillette is really the on that made it about guns in general. They referenced the video of Obama talking about closing loopholes and introducing legislation to ban the sale of assault weapons and then Gillette started talking about how pools are a bigger killer of children or something.
I just don't see Obama's stance as a very radical one.
EDIT: Also Sue Simmons sounded like an idiot in that Asperger's talk, and it's actually pretty disgusting she got so many claps on that. Penn called her out on her bullshit, and she's like "THAT'S NOT WHAT DID", when it's exactly what she did.
Anticitizen One
Banned
Please BAN Call of Duty. They will be doing the world a favor.
I guess 'any' is a bit unrealistic, but 'a lot' is more accurate. If I remember correctly, private prisons are usually also more likely to have mistreatment of inmates, lower quality infrastructure and no financial benefits to the state... so all in all, bad news.
So people need to talk about it until it -is- something they think is an issue. It's happening right now, people are working to legalize it on a state-by state basis. I guess what I am saying is... do what you can to influence the government, as the government is an extension of you.
Like I said, don't really know how it works - but the high rate of homicides (also accidental deaths/suicide) perpetrated by guns speaks for itself. There are a lot of guns in the US, and they do a lot of damage.
Dude Abides
Banned
It's Hollywood's fault kids aren't getting vaccinated? Jillette's no smarter than any of them, except maybe Williams.
meltingparappa
Member
Well, maybe not "Hollywood", but you do see people like Bill Maher or Jenny McCarthy take a very public, very uninformed stance on the issue.
Haha well played.
SatelliteOfLove
Member
It woulda been a better talk show if Wendy O. Williams had had one.
From the way some use the label, they're as bad as murder simulator makers!
From the way some use the label, they're as bad as murder simulator makers!
dr3upmushroom
Banned
You don't agree? He probably just met Hollywood as in media in general. A lot of people don't vaccinate their kids because of those ridiculous claims that vaccinations caused autism. Also some celebrity parents are the type who take a public stance on stuff like not vaccinating their kids, so maybe he meant that Hollywood types contribute to the common attitude of not valuing evidence and disregarding statistics.
thetrin
Hail, peons, for I have come as ambassador from the great and bountiful Blueberry Butt Explosion
It's nice to know that the average human being has such a fucking abysmal impression of what someone with asperger's is actually like.
"They don't have empathy, and they don't know what's right or wrong". Good lord woman, they're not ticking time bombs.
The awareness of mental health issues in this country is fucking shameful.
"They don't have empathy, and they don't know what's right or wrong". Good lord woman, they're not ticking time bombs.
The awareness of mental health issues in this country is fucking shameful.
IrishNinja
Member
Maher too? hadn't heard that before
Napoleonthechimp
Member
The asperger/autism comment was extremely ignorant and I'm glad Penn attacked her on it on air.
thetrin
Hail, peons, for I have come as ambassador from the great and bountiful Blueberry Butt Explosion
it's fucking disgusting. I can't believe she actually said that.
Dude Abides
Banned
And that's why people don't get their kids vaccinated? Because of Maher and McCarthy? Penn rightly lambasted the one lady for asserting a causal effect without evidence but he did exactly the same thing. If he's going to play high priest of empirical rigor he should practice what he preaches.
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