stevematic
Member
It is art. Art isn't a term that's used when something's good.
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Penn Gillette defends violent media (and Call of Duty) on a talk show
- Thread starter GrizzNKev
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It is art. Art isn't a term that's used when something's good.
ElRenoRaven
Member
Yup. I may not agree with him on several things but I have always respected the hell out of the guy. He actually examines things and actually will debate things without being all sensationalist like a lot of celebs. He's also not afraid to call people out for spewing stupid shit like in that video.
dr3upmushroom
Banned
Would not agree that he was much more reasonable throughout the conversation though? I get what you're saying and I agree Penn isn't perfect but it seems ridiculous to me to equate him to the other speakers because he didn't flesh out one thing he said near the end of the segment.
They wouldn't be able to get away with it if it weren't for the idiotic audience. They basically cheered on demand everyone time anyone stated anything.
I don't think quality is the only concern of people who don't think games are art. I don't think most games are art. I also don't think chess is art either, even though I like playing it.
reggieandTFE
Member
It's completely disengenuous for a libertarian nutbar like him to be talking about shifting our nation's priorities towards preventing traffic deaths and pool drownings when he's first in line screaming about fascist seatbelt laws and "cumbersome" regulations on pool safety holding back the glorious free market.
Penn is a smart guy. He's a funny guy. But he's a NFL lineman knocking over pee wee footballers here and he's being celebrated as the second coming in this thread.
I also don't understand why as a nation of 300 million we can't devote some time to figure out how to prevent the slaughter of kindegardeners AND improving overall public safety.
Penn is a smart guy. He's a funny guy. But he's a NFL lineman knocking over pee wee footballers here and he's being celebrated as the second coming in this thread.
I also don't understand why as a nation of 300 million we can't devote some time to figure out how to prevent the slaughter of kindegardeners AND improving overall public safety.
Count Dookkake
Member
Here's footage from 26 years ago of Frank Zappa defending "shock" or "porn" music from similarly ignorant attack.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B9856_xv8gc
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B9856_xv8gc
stevematic
Member
I'd personally say that chess has an element of art to it.
dr3upmushroom
Banned
Maybe he'd like to explore safety options that don't include mandated government regulations? I don't see how his concerns with statistically more dangerous things clashes with libertarianism.
And he pretty much answered the question in your last sentence, media attention ensures that freak events remain in the public eye and are given more attention than more mundane, but more deadly, dangers.
I totally agree. I think high level play can be art. I think it's creation can be considered art. I don't see anything artful about, say, a game between me and 14 year old cousin.
Similarly I'd probably consider high level CoD play artful, but I wouldn't say it's just inherently artistic.
Pseudo_Sam
Survives without air, food, or water
If you were trying your hardest to instantly invalidate your entire post, congratulations. That sort of knee-jerk debauchery is not needed and not helpful to the conversation in the slightest.
...We have prevented the slaughter of kindergartners, on a massive scale. How many kindergartners are there in the U.S.? (A lot). And how many "slaughters" have there been, in however many years? (One.) That's not to say what happened in Connecticut wasn't a tragedy, but to pretend like this is some routine happening is empirically absurd.
Devolution
Member
It really sucks that these are the types that represent women on tv. Nothing but irrational stupid assholes.
Fantastical
Death Prophet
I just don't understand what's wrong with closing loopholes and banning assault weapons... the thing this debate is actually over. It seems like a weak argument to say "but swimming pools, you guys".
It also seems backwards to say that movies and video games involving shooting people have no effect on children, but the media covering a shooting does.
It also seems backwards to say that movies and video games involving shooting people have no effect on children, but the media covering a shooting does.
Germany, Canada, Japan, France etc. have murder rates a fraction of the US.
They have plenty of violent media, and varying attitudes on mental health care.
The three issues with this case are:
1. Guns
2. Guns
3. Guns
Assault rifles are also a bit of a smoke screen. 37 people die a day from gun violence in the US. Nearly all of them from hand guns. If you legislate from tragedies attacking assault rifles make sense, if you legislate from stats you ban handguns and assault rifles.
I live in Canada, people whine a ban is pointless because illegal guns are the issue. If the US ended its loose attitude to hand guns there would be no real black market for guns in the Americas. The second amendment must go.
They have plenty of violent media, and varying attitudes on mental health care.
The three issues with this case are:
1. Guns
2. Guns
3. Guns
Assault rifles are also a bit of a smoke screen. 37 people die a day from gun violence in the US. Nearly all of them from hand guns. If you legislate from tragedies attacking assault rifles make sense, if you legislate from stats you ban handguns and assault rifles.
I live in Canada, people whine a ban is pointless because illegal guns are the issue. If the US ended its loose attitude to hand guns there would be no real black market for guns in the Americas. The second amendment must go.
I get it
stevematic
Member
Comparing those countries to the US is implying that they've had huge issues with gun crime prior to gun control which just isn't true.
Gun crime doesn't seem to be an issue for Switzerland.
QisTopTier
XisBannedTier
Why is Penn on that show with them? He's too smart to be there.
Apeopleman
Member
Isn't wendy williams a tranny?
I believe Penn is a very intelligent person, and really presented his argument well.
I believe Penn is a very intelligent person, and really presented his argument well.
meltingparappa
Member
This is not a nice thing to say, nor a nice term to use.
Darkmakaimura
Can You Imagine What SureAI Is Going To Do With Garfield?
"Blame the killer, not the artist."
Jillette ftw.
Jillette ftw.
are you advocating mandatory military service in the US?
Indeed.
Apeopleman, tranny is generally considered an insulting term (or even a slur) by transgender people; please don't use it in the future.
It's just sad that someone capable of decent reasoning putting that to use in an environment like that seems to be the exception, not the rule, and that in an environment like that he might just be dismissed for being the token man.
Still, at least he managed to get some applause of his own, it's more than I expected after a few minutes of watching it.
grap3fruitman
Banned
Why can't a sensible person like Penn get a talk show? There might be something worthwhile on for once.
TUROK
Member
His opinions are too objective for everyday people, people who tend to have their emotions cloud their judgment. Too much objectivity comes across as insensitivity, and that scares people.
Napoleonthechimp
Member
While both COD and chess are games, chess is not art. COD could be considered - interactive - art because people have designed material and presented it in a particular sequence.
glaringradio
Member
How the fuck does a woman who has such a poor grasp of basic English grammar, that can't even remember to breath properly whilst speaking, get a fucking chat show?
That was so painful to watch.
That was so painful to watch.
HocusPocus
Member
I mean I don't mind different opinions but the Wendy Williams girl is probably the worst host I have ever seen in my life, and the young chick with her has about as much intelligence as my left nut.
I was surprised about this as well.
That was one of the first things I noticed as well. Weird for this kind of show to address that issue at all.
You'd think they would change the treatment of their tv thing to not be so... out of place.
Yes it is.
she used to have a reputation for being "edgy and not scared to confront people" which meant she was loud and obnoxious and a complete twat to her guests and has somehow spun a career out of it. She's been terrible at her job from day one and most people in the industry she interacts with hate her guts.
Mad respect for Zappa there, kept his cool.
That Lofton dude was annoying as fuck.
Zomba13
Member
And if he walked in with no gun he'd have potentially killed 0.
And if he'd had a job, he'd potentially wouldn't even have walked into Sandy Hook at all.
Gentleman Jack
Member
Wendy Williams' Wikipedia page features a detailed list of the rappers who've told her to suck dicks in their lyrics.
God bless Wikipedia.
Penn tried to make rational arguments and lay blame squarely on the person who did the killings, while the others all scrambled around for scapegoats. It was really a struggle to sit through the whole video.
TurtleSnatcher
Member
I laughed uncontrollably at the Switzerland comment.. Mainly because that country has a people's militia and no national military and most have to own guns between a certain age.
MightyHealthy
Banned
I'm surprised to see so many people not recognize the complete cunt that is Wendy Williams.
This is the same personality who:
- propagated the rumor that Tupac Shakur was raped in jail
- revealed that Method Man's wife had cancer before her own family knew
- is one of the few people Will Smith ever dissed
Her show was kind of cute when she'd come on The Soup and make fun of it and herself...but I'd never expect a serious discussion or debate in such a setting.
This is the same personality who:
- propagated the rumor that Tupac Shakur was raped in jail
- revealed that Method Man's wife had cancer before her own family knew
- is one of the few people Will Smith ever dissed
Her show was kind of cute when she'd come on The Soup and make fun of it and herself...but I'd never expect a serious discussion or debate in such a setting.
TurtleSnatcher
Member
Wait.. she did this?
What the hell???
What the hell???
MrCunningham
Member
That pretty well sums it up. The blond woman kept changing pointing her finger at different things to blame after Pen tried to throw an argument against them. If it's not the media or videogames, it must be the politicians faults. Blame them. You can tell that Penn Gillette really held back at the end though. I think he even knew that this debate was way too easy for him to exploit and toned himself down in the end.
I don't know myself, I would never rule out media as not having an effect on someones mental state. I think anything from music, movies, TV shows to video games can be a trigger that can ignite irrational behavior under certain circumstances. But I don't think most of these outlets can be the direct root of the problem. Usually it stems from the individual themselves.
Same argument, different decade. replace mentally ill with people who have aspergers (things have become more categorized on the media over the years), devil worshiping music with violent video games and "Regan's America" with "Obama's America" and there really isn't much difference.
Hot Coldman
Banned
That Zappa interview makes me think... why don't the game developers get to justify their medium on telly? Why is it always left to fans or press? I know Whitta did a good job once but that's the closest I've seen to someone involved with games development protecting their chosen art.
Darkmakaimura
Can You Imagine What SureAI Is Going To Do With Garfield?
I never heard of her but she came off as terribly annoying. What a piss poor show. Jillette is above this. I loved this P&T BS from Showtime. In fact, there was an episode devoted to just this subject regarding video games and violence and he even had none other than Jack Thompson on.
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