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Russia begins Invasion of Ukraine
- Thread starter AfricanKing
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FunkMiller
Banned
Cuntstable Macron back on duty.
FatallyYours
Member
Is it up to macron or France to determine that?
Id say Russia already been humiliated, and deserve to be humiliated further
M1chl
Currently Gif and Meme Champion
RJMacready73
Simps for Amouranth
Jesus he's such a fucking puppet
Ironbunny
Member
Bitmap Frogs
Mr. Community
Paulxo87
Member
US empire strikes back: Russia takes the hits, China lives in fear
https://english.pravda.ru/opinion/151238-us_empire/
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MidGenRefresh
*Refreshes biennially
I zoned out when browsing GAF, I didn't even know what thread I was in. When I saw that still my first thought was "is that Detroit?"
Ironbunny
Member
okay
FatallyYours
Member
akimbo009
Gold Member
The stereotypes really holding up in this war...The French really show they are Frenchwtf …
NoLootBoxDev
Member
Beijing chafes at Moscow’s requests for support, Chinese officials say
washingtonpost.com/nation...
Fuck Xi!!!
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NoLootBoxDev
Member
Destruction of the Russian satellite communication station Andromeda-D also 30 OMBR with the help of Stugna-P destroys several tanks and armored personnel carrier and 45th Artillery Brigade worked on a cluster of Russian vehicles that were hidden at the oil plant in the Zaporizhzhia region
youtu.be/Xfqb3T...
NoLootBoxDev
Member
Russian plane full of passengers seized in Sri Lanka; An arrest warrant has been issued for plane
b92.net/eng/ne...
akimbo009
Gold Member
Ukraine making significant progress within Severondonesk. Looks like they did an effective feint, and Russia's losses are significant.
If confirmed, this may break Russia's current strategy forcing additional regrouping. Seems dire for them in this space - and morale has got to be waning.
According to the most recent updates on Deepstatemap, there are NO parts of Severondonesk currently showing as being under Russian control. The whole city is either contested or has parts of it showing as being under Ukrainian control. They might actually be able to push the Russians fully out of it soon, absolutely did not see this coming.
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Bullet Club
Banned
Tams
Member
They just dig, and dig, and dig, and dig.
Cunt one his last election so should be in every position to match the commitments of the likes of the US and UK. Instead he wants to be seen as the peaceful hero in a war. Cunstable indeed.
Bernd Lauert
Banned
I generally like France's post-WW2 stance of showing the middle finger to the US and doing its own thing, but this is not the time lmao
FunkMiller
Banned
It’s ‘own thing‘ has been entwining itself inexorably with Russia for years, so not sure the pointless middle finger to the US was worth it. France has never done its own thing. It’s a follower, never a leader. And now its ‘leader’ has to kowtow to Putin, thanks to his country’s pathetic mismanagement.
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Bernd Lauert
Banned
What I mean is for example not helping the US commit its war crimes, like the invasion of Iraq for example. They just have to make sure they don't go too far in the opposite direction (aka Russia). So far they've struck a good balance imo. Not like UK and Italy for example, who have been US lackeys for a long time now.
akimbo009
Gold Member
You are an idiot.
Alx
Member
Macron is thinking of the end game. Giving weapons to Ukraine (which France has been doing too) will help Ukraine defend itself, but it won’t end the war. That will happen either with a treaty signed with Putin, or with a regime change in Russia. Either way, it requires to keep « fair » relationships with Russia, ie opposing the war without « humiliating » it. It’s much more complex than playing good guys versus bad guys.
People being emotional about the war will think « Russia is bad so everything that hurts them is good », but that’s not a great way to handle things, like most of European history has taught us.
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Ironbunny
Member
Regime change happens only if the russian people and the bundits know theres is no future with Putin. In these terms humiliation is the wrong word. Relationship with the Russia and the rest of the world cannot continue with ruZZia. Its done. Seeking to contue talks with Putin Macron is making sure ruZZia exist in the future. If my countrys leaders would seek relations with Putins ruZZia when there is a treaty people here would riot. The trust is lost.
funkygunther
Banned
I also have a more charitable reading than “Macron is appeasing Russia” but it’s not as favourable as yours
By discussing the endgame now, in the words that Russia must not be humiliated, tells me that he sees Russia losing this war with the rest of the world having the opportunity, and ability, to humiliate them. It verbally puts Russia as the weaker party in this context, we could humiliate you but we’ll show restraint. A message that is the opposite of what Russua has been projecting.
The proof is in the pudding though, as long as France continues to squeeze Russia and support Ukraine until negotiations can be fair I just see this as Macron’s rhetorical trick than a humanitarian or historical need to not repeat the old mistakes that previously lead to further extremism.
RJMacready73
Simps for Amouranth
Its humiliating enough for a country when another country goes "here lads lets go easy on this cunt before we proper humiliate him"
France wants to see an out that keeps Putin in power because that suits the interests of France, you cant blame em, countries are gonna look after their own interests and to fuck with everyone else, what do you think the US has been doing for years its how geopolitics works only some operate with a little less Genocidal killing.
Ukraine needs to negotiate from a position of strength, they know it, the UK/US knows it and everyone else knows it.. heck even the Russian cunts know it hence why they keep prolonging this utterly fucking stupid war in the hopes of getting something out of it other than a resounding defeat which will topple the current Regime
France wants to see an out that keeps Putin in power because that suits the interests of France, you cant blame em, countries are gonna look after their own interests and to fuck with everyone else, what do you think the US has been doing for years its how geopolitics works only some operate with a little less Genocidal killing.
Ukraine needs to negotiate from a position of strength, they know it, the UK/US knows it and everyone else knows it.. heck even the Russian cunts know it hence why they keep prolonging this utterly fucking stupid war in the hopes of getting something out of it other than a resounding defeat which will topple the current Regime
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FatallyYours
Member
Excuse me guy, but you're talking shit.
Macron might be thinking of the end game, but he doesn't have a say in it. Ukraine and Russia are the only ones who can end this. Everyone else is just watching, waiting or helping. So he's planning for something he has no stake in...bollocks to him and anyone standing up for him
Weapons won't win the war? Every war ever fought in the history of mankind has been won with having more, or bigger weapons, that eventually force one side into submission. Send more weapons to Ukraine. Train them up on how to use them. Let them defend their homeland to the last man, if that's what Ukraine want to do. Fuck France if they think they have a say in that. They want relations with Russia, fine, but don't use Ukraine as an excuse or as a bargaining chip. Let them stand up and say they want cheap Russia gas again please Mr putin
And treaties? The last few treaties signed with Russia turned out real well didn't they?
Russian–Ukrainian Friendship Treaty:
agreement between Ukraine and Russia, signed in 1997, which fixed the principle of strategic partnership, the recognition of the inviolability of existing borders, and respect for territorial integrity and mutual commitment not to use its territory to harm the security of each other. The treaty prevents Ukraine and Russia from invading one another's country respectively, and declaring war
OR
Budapest Memorandum on Security Assurances:
memorandum prohibited the Russian Federation, the United Kingdom and the United States from threatening or using military force or economic coercion against Ukraine, Belarus, and Kazakhstan, "except in self-defence or otherwise in accordance with the Charter of the United Nations" as long as Ukraine gave up its nuclear weaponsRussia don't deserve the chance to sign treaties, and will likely never be fully trusted ever again.
Fuck Russia. Fuck France.
Long live Ukraine
RJMacready73
Simps for Amouranth
Excuse me guy, but you're talking shit.
Macron might be thinking of the end game, but he doesn't have a say in it. Ukraine and Russia are the only ones who can end this. Everyone else is just watching, waiting or helping. So he's planning for something he has no stake in...bollocks to him and anyone standing up for him
Weapons won't win the war? Every war ever fought in the history of mankind has been won with having more, or bigger weapons, that eventually force one side into submission. Send more weapons to Ukraine. Train them up on how to use them. Let them defend their homeland to the last man, if that's what Ukraine want to do. Fuck France if they think they have a say in that. They want relations with Russia, fine, but don't use Ukraine as an excuse or as a bargaining chip. Let them stand up and say they want cheap Russia gas again please Mr putin
And treaties? The last few treaties signed with Russia turned out real well didn't they?
Russian–Ukrainian Friendship Treaty:
agreement between Ukraine and Russia, signed in 1997, which fixed the principle of strategic partnership, the recognition of the inviolability of existing borders, and respect for territorial integrity and mutual commitment not to use its territory to harm the security of each other. The treaty prevents Ukraine and Russia from invading one another's country respectively, and declaring war
OR
Budapest Memorandum on Security Assurances:
memorandum prohibited the Russian Federation, the United Kingdom and the United States from threatening or using military force or economic coercion against Ukraine, Belarus, and Kazakhstan, "except in self-defence or otherwise in accordance with the Charter of the United Nations" as long as Ukraine gave up its nuclear weapons
Russia don't deserve the chance to sign treaties, and will likely never be fully trusted ever again.
Fuck Russia. Fuck France.
Long live Ukraine
in fairness to those Treaties they where signed when Ukraine was within Moscows sphere of influence, with it recently pivoting towards the West with a possibility of it joining the EU and eventually even Nato, in Putins eyes Ukraine ripped up the treaties and threw em in the bin forcing big bad Putin's hand
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FatallyYours
Member
Ukraine is allowed, by international law, to determine who they deal with, when and how. Russia don't like that Ukraine have slowly started moving towards the west?
Tough fucking titties. Deal with it. No action that Ukraine have taken, has given Russia the right to invade an independent sovereign country.
Fuck 'em and anyone standing up for them. In any way
RJMacready73
Simps for Amouranth
i wholeheartedly agree, so what if Ukraine joins the EU/Nato that's there god given democratic right... but see it in the wider context of who your neighbour is.. a brutal authoritarian kleptocracy and that shit directly challenges their authority and we all know how wee man syndrome cunts act
Alx
Member
As a matter of fact he’s discussing the very part that is relevant for a foreign observer. Of course it will be for Ukraine and Russia to discuss the peace conditions and nobody else, in the meantime other countries have different ways to put pressure on Russia to reach that peace. Providing weapons and economic sanctions are part of that. Humiliating sanctions could also be an action, but some think they are counter productive for many reasons.
It’s one way of ending a war. Although forcing one side to submission usually means invading the country and occupying its capital city. Which isn’t currently the plan with Russia (and would have a high risk in triggering nuclear war).
The current situation is very reminiscent of WWI on the French front, with both armies stalling themselves and winning/losing territories depending on the latest fights. That can last for years, and it only ended when German government was toppled over.
Nobody is against that kind of support and action. It’s necessary for Ukraine to keep existing against Russia. Only it will only make the war last, it won’t end it.
It’s true, Russia can’t be trusted. Only there cannot be illegal action if there’s no law. Signing a treaty won’t definitely fix the issue, but it will give a better ground to protect and defend the country.
So what’s your plan then, erase Russia from the map ? Or keep running a never ending war ?
Like it or not, Russia isn’t going anywhere (Putin will go one day though, but that depends on uncontrolled elements). If there is to be peace in Ukraine again, it will still be with that country at your border. (Which is almost word for word what Macron was saying when he was mentioning the lack of humiliation)
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FatallyYours
Member
And this is why diplomacy was invented.
People don't have to like each other to have to deal with each other.
UK and France have been at war with each other countless times, and still to this day do not like each other really. But they get along. Because they have to.
Same with Germany and [insert any neighboring country] after WW2
UK and USA were deadly enemies
Any number of countries, especially in the last 1500 years of European history will show that enemies put up with, and co-exist with each other
Hitler was an absolute cunt, but at least he had the ball to wage war, allowing whomever to mutually declare war and fight it out properly. Putin is a sneaky shit hiding behind lies. And anyone supporting him, or sucking up to him, should be named and shamed for all history
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FatallyYours
Member
Did you not watch the first 100 days of this war? That's exactly what Russia tried to do. And failed.
And it didn't trigger nuclear war
And that is fully up to Ukraine. Not France. If Ukraine want the war to last 100 years, then I support them in that decision, as its theirs to make
I don't have a plan. Know why? Because I have no say in it, not being the Russian leader, or part of the Russian people, the Ukrainian leader, or part of the Ukrainian people. I will however support whatever Ukraine decide to do. And if it comes to it, and things change, and Europe, and it's allies, are once again engaged in war by a dictator, then I will support Russia being wiped off the map if that is the plan
Macron is an idiot. Anyone supporting him in his dealing with Russia is too.
Once again. Fuck Russia. Fuck France
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Brazen
Member
Russia's humiliation is self-inflicted as long as they continue to geno- now wait, I'd rather say rape, pillage, and destroy civilian life unconditionally. A situation involving the destruction of life and liberty is a threat that needs a stern stance against it, at all times, fuck Russia they don't need, nor have they earned apathy. And when the situation ends the world will remember who helped either side, and who did nothing.
If EU's big dogs would rather continue a political dog and pony show instead of the "never again" one, they may as well admit it and save us all their pretentious bullshit. The leadership of both France and Germany are a joke in foreign relations and have been a joke for a long while now, and will continue to be a fucking joke until some self-reflection happens... They were both warned, numerously, fuck pride, fuck Russia, and fuck anyone downplaying the atrocities.
If EU's big dogs would rather continue a political dog and pony show instead of the "never again" one, they may as well admit it and save us all their pretentious bullshit. The leadership of both France and Germany are a joke in foreign relations and have been a joke for a long while now, and will continue to be a fucking joke until some self-reflection happens... They were both warned, numerously, fuck pride, fuck Russia, and fuck anyone downplaying the atrocities.
RJMacready73
Simps for Amouranth
Diplomacy only works with countries that can be trusted, Russia was never a country that could be trusted, hell any authoritarian dictatorship is not to be trusted nor should it be tolerated in this day and age. France & Germany get along because of the EU and because they are both democratic countries, they may disagree with many things but i wouldn't say they disliked each other, we've all moved on with the world, Russia, China, Syria etc havent and are unable to as long as they rule over their populace with an iron fist and act the cunt on the world stage. I hope that even if there is a peace agreement between Ukraine & Russia that the West maintains the sanctions so long as Putin remains in power, as he will always be a threat to the world order.
FatallyYours
Member
I agree, but little over 100 days ago, I'd say that Russia's standing in the world was shaky, but stable, enough to be able to act in good faith with. They had diplomatic ties with the rest of the western world. They chose this course and everything that's come with it. They deserve every hurt that comes to them
nemiroff
Gold Member
Fools idol
Banned
Russia is very capable of nuking every nato state in seconds. I don't think things are going to be that easy. Their nuclear armed subs are lurking all over the place too.
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Old ass malfunction subs
Russia proved it only is good for a shit show ..They should retreat and be left alone for 1000 years to see if they can manage on their own .
Darius87
Member
it's not like putin have button to launch all nukes, if among putins generals there's ones who ready to die after when he manages to convince ones who responsible for proceeding multiple steps for launching nuke to get ready to die also then probability is higher but still there's unknowns because nukes works different then your casual "kalibr" rocket nuke is explosion within explosion there's must be precise explosion to trigger atomic reaction before nuke explodes, knowing that russia collection of nukes are a bit old many things could go wrong at technical level, but one thing i can guarantee after launching nuke there won't be left anything from the position where that nuke was launched nomatter it was launched from sub, silo or somewhere else.
Tams
Member
There are two problems with that approach:
1. Who decides what humiliates Russia...? oh, wait, Russia. So they'll try and do whatever they want.
2. Give the likes of Russia an inch and they'll take a mile.
Hitler was given 'off-ramps'. Didn't work. Stalin was. Didn't work. Mao was. Didn't work there either. Pol Pot? Nope.
Tams
Member
As are NATO ones. Well, some members of NATO. With more than enough nuclear warheads to make starting a nuclear war very unappetising.
FatallyYours
Member
It's almost like people don't study history. Humiliation is part of war. History was written by the victors as propaganda, to show how feeble the losing side was. Huge amounts of land gets stripped from countries. New borders forced upon them. Reparations expected and enforced. Hell, at some points in the far past the winners would literally take family and children as hostage to make sure there were no plans to come back at them.
I'm sorry if Macron doesn't want his little buddy to be humiliated, but fuck you, Russia deserve to be humiliated, and for it to be remembered for as long as humankind exists on this planet.
You dont get to invade a country, under any pretence, then level entire cities, Rape children, burn bodies and then have the absolute gall to say that it's actually Ukrainians doing it to themselves
Tams
Member
The worst part is that if Ukraine gives any considerable concessions to Russia, then not only with this A-Okay this with Russia, it will send out the message that it's possible, even 'fine' for others to do the same. And there are a lot of people who are itching for a 'good' excuse to do so.
China with Taiwan are the most obvious example. But Central/South America have bitter tensions. Don't even get started on the Middle East. And Africa... well in a lot of cases they don't even act under the pretence of having 'good' reasons.
And there are a lot of countries sitting this out waiting to choose to ride along with the victor. It's disgusting, but it's their choice. It does mean that we, the 'strongly' democratic world ('West' if you will), need to ensure Ukraine win. Some may say that's pretentious (at best) of us; but to those I ask: are the alternatives better? That was rhetorical; no they aren't.
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