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Russia begins Invasion of Ukraine

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The worst part is that if Ukraine gives any considerable concessions to Russia, then not only with this A-Okay this with Russia, it will send out the message that it's possible, even 'fine' for others to do the same. And there are a lot of people who are itching for a 'good' excuse to do so.

China with Taiwan are the most obvious example. But Central/South America have bitter tensions. Don't even get started on the Middle East. And Africa... well in a lot of cases they don't even act under the pretence of having 'good' reasons.

And there are a lot of countries sitting this out waiting to choose to ride along with the victor. It's disgusting, but it's their choice. It does mean that we, the 'strongly' democratic world ('West' if you will), need to ensure Ukraine win. Some may say that's pretentious (at best) of us; but to those I ask: are the alternatives better? That was rhetorical; no they aren't.
Exactly. This is a precedent for a number of potential "military operations". If the world can not get behind this now, then there is no stopping what could become in the future. The only way to stop that is to stand up to Russia and make sure that its a fucking costly "operation" for whatever they do or dont get out of it

I hope, that given time, and support, Ukraine can stop Russia, push them back and eject them from their entire country. But that is at Ukraines cost. Its fully upto Ukraine with what they are willing to give up or sacrifice if it comes to that

Does France not study it's own history? It's full of humiliation, one would think they'd want to support the right and decent side of this conflict, and not be humilated in history again once this is finally done with. Same with Germany
 

FunkMiller

Banned
Russia is very capable of nuking every nato state in seconds. I don't think things are going to be that easy. Their nuclear armed subs are lurking all over the place too.

Where are you getting this shit from? Only assume it’s an action movie from the 1980s?

Russia has ten nuclear subs. Maybe As many as half will be on active duty right now. Even if they were able to get their payloads off without them being shot back down again by NATO’s vastly superior ABM capabilities, we’re not talking enough destructive power to destroy more than a couple of major cities. Some would get through. But all? Enough to wipe NATO out? Nah.

I’m not even getting into Russia’s land based ICBMs. They’re famously in bad repair, and all are constantly monitored.

If that fucking idiot tried to fire off a nuke (which western satellite technology will pick up about three seconds after they go near the damn thing), he’ll be a smear on the wall. Because have no doubt that NATO’s ability to destroy Russia in a couple of hours is much more likely.

Why do you think the mad cunt has shut up about nukes? He knows if he tries it, he’s fucking dead. You think America chucking 40 billion at Ukraine wouldn’t have been grounds for him to fire one off if he could?
 
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Alx

Member
Did you not watch the first 100 days of this war? That's exactly what Russia tried to do. And failed.

That's the point, for the invader the endgame is quite clear : occupy the country, force a new puppet government, declare mission accomplished. For all the brutality and illegality of Putin's approach, its exit strategy is quite straightforward. The same thing can't be said for the invaded country, even if Ukraine manages to push back Russian army to its borders, it won't automatically stop the war.
That's why I was saying more weapons won't end the war, at least not for the defendant. They will help Ukraine not lose it, but that's only one part of the problem (the more urgent one, obviously) and leaders need to think of the way to end it.

And it didn't trigger nuclear war

It didn't because Ukraine isn't part of NATO. The war is currently asymmetrical, with a nuclear army facing a non-nuclear one. And it's quite clear (even explicitly stated) that most countries in NATO don't want to escalate it to world war, so attacking Russia isn't an option for them.

And that is fully up to Ukraine. Not France. If Ukraine want the war to last 100 years, then I support them in that decision, as its theirs to make
Well other countries definitely don't want the war to last 100 years, because that would destroy the whole of Europe as surely as a nuclear war would. And even if officially western countries aren't part of that conflict, the fact is that technically they totally are, and all the military support, and economical sanctions come at a price (not even mentioning refugee hosting, food availability issues etc).
War is never meant to last forever, you're not fighting for the sake of fighting but you're aiming at a goal, whichever side you are. You can hide behind the excuse "it's not for me to have a plan, let others decide for me", but in that case don't blame world leaders who are thinking ahead and realize there's more to it than killing more people with more weapons. Macron isn't even saying it with an intention to force a decision on Ukraine or Russia, as an external actor he's only thinking of having the right conditions so that Ukraine and Russia can agree to end the war (and like it or not, you'll need both to do it).
 
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RJMacready73

Simps for Amouranth
Jesus as if the Russians couldn't get anymore cuntish and downright unhumanitarian, they're now deliberately targeting food in order to create an international food crisis, as if the fuckers aren't happy enough with murdering tens of thousands of innocent Ukrainians they're now going after the starving poor in other countries in order to force the West to lift Sanctions.. fucking hell, that's some next level evil guy shit, if he's resorting to this shit those sanctions must be biting, hopefully the West stands firm, we aren't creating famine, that cunt in the Kremlin is and the world shouldn't negotiate with terrorists.

They need kicked out of the Security council and utterly humiliated/shunned by the international community, how the fuck could any country support a regime like this?
 

GymWolf

Member
Amazing. Also this war has to be absolutely insane to the mind, since the drones and shit. Basically as soon as you are in foreign territory you have to think about that you are possibly seen. No matter where you hiding.
Yeah the stress must be unbereable, you know that you can literally die at any given moment no matter where you are of what armoured vehicle is protecting you.

But someone told me that russian soldiers know jack shit about ukranians weapons because their generals fear people deserting...

Ignorance is bliss i guess.
 
That's the point, for the invader the endgame is quite clear : occupy the country, force a new puppet government, declare mission accomplished. For all the brutality and illegality of Putin's approach, its exit strategy is quite straightforward. The same thing can't be said for the invaded country, even if Ukraine manages to push back Russian army to its borders, it won't automatically stop the war.
That's why I was saying more weapons won't end the war, at least not for the defendant. They will help Ukraine not lose it, but that's only one part of the problem (the more urgent one, obviously) and leaders need to think of the way to end it.



It didn't because Ukraine isn't part of NATO. The war is currently asymmetrical, with a nuclear army facing a non-nuclear one. And it's quite clear (even explicitly stated) that most countries in NATO don't want to escalate it to world war, so attacking Russia isn't an option for them.


Well other countries definitely don't want the war to last 100 years, because that would destroy the whole of Europe as surely as a nuclear war would. And even if officially western countries aren't part of that conflict, the fact is that technically they totally are, and all the military support, and economical sanctions come at a price (not even mentioning refugee hosting, food availability issues etc).
War is never meant to last forever, you're not fighting for the sake of fighting but you're aiming at a goal, whichever side you are. You can hide behind the excuse "it's not for me to have a plan, let others decide for me", but in that case don't blame world leaders who are thinking ahead and realize there's more to it than killing more people with more weapons. Macron isn't even saying it with an intention to force a decision on Ukraine or Russia, as an external actor he's only thinking of having the right conditions so that Ukraine and Russia can agree to end the war (and like it or not, you'll need both to do it).
OK so you're a troll, that's fine, I can ignore you after this.

You said it wasn't Russias plan to occupy the capital, even though it obviously was, now you're saying the invader should occupy the country and install its own government to force there version of a win, thats russais exit strategy. Stick to a story 🙄

I'm not hiding behind anything, I've said clearly, and I'll say it again: I (me, you, macron, Donald duck or thanos) have no say in how this war finishes. I have hopes and wishes. But the only person who can stop this war today is Putin.
And he's been given that chance. 100+ times. Infact Russia has been given chances since the end of WW2 to be involved with the rest of the world. They've decided not to bother. The only thing world leaders have done is pandered to Russia and sucked up to them. Like macron is doing right now. It hasn't worked. Know how I can tell it hasn't worked??

Ukraine is burning.
Its populace starving, displaced or dead in the streets, hospitals and churces bombarded, children stolen and raped

This is the Russia you and macron want to deal with? Good luck. You'll be remembered for it, in your cheaply heated and lit houses

Macron should grow a fucking spine and just say he wants access to cheap Russian oil and gas. That's all he has to do. He will be demonised for it, but do not use being a peace broker between the head of a raping, pillaging, genocidal army and a country defending itself against it, as an excuse to cuddle upto little daddy putin. There's one side to come down on. Macron is on the wrong side.

No one wants a 100 year war, correct!!(although it's happened before and didn't destroy europe). But thats for Ukraine and Russia to decide! IF Ukraine decide to fight until the last fucking man or woman, then God damn, I'll support that and wish them luck

If Ukraine want macrons help negotiating with the fuckstick putin they'll ask for it. Until then, he should shut the fuck up and study French history and how much they've been humilated previously
 

TwinB242

Member
Does russia have any of these things?

They have a couple of variants. The newest is the Tornado system but they seem to have those in very low quantities so I don't think they've seen much action in Ukraine. The SMERCH launcher is the most common one seeing action, but its not really in the same league as the U.S. launchers. The SMERCHs have inferior accuracy, don't have the same range, and the rockets have a higher failure rate.
 

Gp1

Member
They have a couple of variants. The newest is the Tornado system but they seem to have those in very low quantities so I don't think they've seen much action in Ukraine. The SMERCH launcher is the most common one seeing action, but its not really in the same league as the U.S. launchers. The SMERCHs have inferior accuracy, don't have the same range, and the rockets have a higher failure rate.

The problem is that even if Ukraine has a handful of M270/Himars, Russia has a huge stockpile of Smerch, Uragans and ammo for both.
 

Russian Foreign Minister Lavrov was unable to fly to Serbia because Bulgaria, Montenegro and northern Macedonia refused access to their airspace in line with EU sanctions. Roscosmos head Dmitry Rogozin threatens these countries with the Sarmat intercontinental ballistic missile​


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censor.net/ua/new...

The Simpsons GIF by MOODMAN
 

Alx

Member
Oi! Alx Alx boy! You awake?! Look at this!

Your beloved metropolitan leader's the butt of jokes from those he wants to protect from 'embarrassment'.
Embarassment and humiliation are different things. Embarrassment is what will make Russia want to negotiate, humiliation is what will make them resist that option (now I do agree with another poster that defining what can be considered an humiliation and for whom is a grey area... but notice that Macron didn't explicitly state it either, it's more of a guideline for all diplomatic interactions)
We all know Russian propaganda is bullshit, one shouldn't base its diplomacy on the trolls of a country. If anything, if they feel the need to make fun of Macron, it's probably because he does have a point. That propaganda is based on triggering emotions on all sides to fan the flames, rational people who analyze the situation to make different solutions possible aren't playing in their hands.
The base question is, should we play by Russian rules, or play by Western rules ?
 
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Russia still got money left to pay their soldiers? Lol
Their energy sector is still going strong. They'll make 20% more money compared to last year. So short term they're good. If the war goes on for several years, it could get pretty bad for them. Assuming we keep supporting Ukraine for those years, of course (iirc running Ukraine costs something like $5B a month).
 

Ironbunny

Member
This tweet with the gay pride rainbow flag is full clown world

No its not. The way ruZZia and its occupation views gays makes the flag quite fitting here.


"Russia has a list of “journalists, activists and gay rights advocates.” who could be "killed" or "sent to camps'' after the invasion of Ukraine. It will be a “human rights catastrophe," the U.S. letter claimed.
It's why LGBTQ Ukrainians have been telling me about their rush to hide their identity online. How they spent the first days of the invasion deleting dating app accounts. Clearing their WhatsApp messages of anything queer."

Ukrainian LGBTQ Soldiers Fight Against “Darkness” Of Russian Invasion
 

MrA

Member
How screwed are we man...
given the history of famine and the soviet union seems like a bad idea for Russia; however, this is going to primarily harm Pakistan in the short term, a country generally on good terms with Russia, so attacking food supplies will likely backfire,
 

TwinB242

Member
The lack of news on Severodonetsk lately is a bit puzzling. There's conflicting reports on both side and its hard to tell who is in control of which parts of it. Maybe over the next few days we'll know more, but I think its inevitable that Russia is going to eventually take it given the sheer number of resources they're throwing at it.
 
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Tams

Member
Embarassment and humiliation are different things. Embarrassment is what will make Russia want to negotiate, humiliation is what will make them resist that option (now I do agree with another poster that defining what can be considered an humiliation and for whom is a grey area... but notice that Macron didn't explicitly state it either, it's more of a guideline for all diplomatic interactions)
We all know Russian propaganda is bullshit, one shouldn't base its diplomacy on the trolls of a country. If anything, if they feel the need to make fun of Macron, it's probably because he does have a point. That propaganda is based on triggering emotions on all sides to fan the flames, rational people who analyze the situation to make different solutions possible aren't playing in their hands.
The base question is, should we play by Russian rules, or play by Western rules ?
Pathetic excuses from you.

“Some people want to be leaders. In order to be a leader, you do not need to consider yourself one, but to behave as a leader,” Zelenskiy said. He added: “How can we achieve a ceasefire in the territory of Ukraine without listening to the position of [this] country, and without listening to [the] position of the leader of this country? This is very, very surprising.

“We are not going to humiliate anyone,” Zelenskiy told the newspaper. “We are going to respond in kind.”
 
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Bitmap Frogs

Mr. Community
Time.com reports Russia is destroying its own arty tubes faster that it can replace them and has started borrowing Belarusian stock.

For those who don’t know (I didn’t neither before this war) arty tubes wear down rapidly with use.
 
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Cyberpunkd

Member
Time.com reports Russia is destroying its own artery tubes faster that it can replace them and has started borrowing Belarusian stock.

For those who don’t know (I didn’t neither before this war) arty tubes wear down rapidly with use.
Hot takes like this will looks like this:

Oh My God Reaction GIF


When Russia will inevitably win this war. Then the whole media will spend next few weeks in detail explaining why this was always going to be the case, completely ignoring pondering to David vs. Goliath spin for months.

Russia was always going to win, it is just question how far they are willing to go to win fast.
 
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