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[Myths]

Every game is meant to now be a different experience, that’s the modern objective in its entirety.

Knowing this, they aren’t regressing to turn based and that isn’t going to solve sales. There are way more elements that need to addressed other than its battle system. One of biggest problems is the game structure of modern FF is on-rails — there’s no creative level design with puzzles, environmental interaction or multi-layer questing system. FFI-FFIII place great emphasis on key items, having you figure out how to relate them to the quest and NPC’s or the level/dungeon. This was already on its way out by FFXII though since FFVII was on the decline. Also, since the Crystarium, character progression and leveling adds to this on-rails like experience. Other things…

Lack of:
- dedicated playable cast/party
- hidden pathways or levels and the freedom to access a reasonable amount before end-game
- changing level structure (revisitation feels instanced)
- world structure itself from a menu feels disconnected/disjointed, inaccessible and overall “instanced”
- status effects/weapon/armor complexity
- character progression has no dimension
- stagger/break system draws out battles and rotations longer than they should with no meaningful phasing. Compared to FFXIII, which applies a temporal component of maintenance determined by juggling different jobs to the growth/decay rate of the bar, XVI’s one dimensional.

 

[Cert.in.Death]

Two things:
1) I believe the numbers.
2) FFXV sold way more than XVI despite it not being anywhere as good (IMO). Seems that the goodwill was spent, fans did not return, and S-E was unable to replace old players with younger ones.

Spells trouble for the franchise but largely due to S-E constantly failing to properly set expectations within reason (goes all the way back to the Tomb Raider reboot).

 

[mopspear]

I'm halfway through and I really like the game, but I keep thinking "It was a mistake to not at least have a party, especially after FFVIIR made it work."

 

[fart town usa]

That game was so bad to me I genuinely felt like I was losing my mind while playing it. Questioning reality and shit.

 

[mpgeist]

I liked the characters, story and music. The gameplay was a slog and the side quests were boring. I feel like this is decent numbers though? Like others have said Square's expectations are out of whack.

 

[rofif]

pc gamers
"I won't play this game until it comes to pc and is 60fps"
game comes to pc
"pc gamer not playing it"

Cmon,. It's an amazing game, great spectacle and graphics.
I highly recommend it. It's so much fun

 

[mayham2199]

I'll keep saying it.
Should have been a spin off, shouldn't have had an open world or any RPG elements. Trim the story. Should have just been action set piece -> Boss -> Cutscene -> Repeat for 20 hours. Would have been a 9/10 like that.

I got the plat and liked the game but I do agree with all that. Also remove the main quest that involved me doing nonsense like getting parts.

Should have replaced those dumb main quest with the side quest for the brother and girl and your good to go.

 

[semiconscious]

Two things:
1) I believe the numbers.
2) FFXV sold way more than XVI despite it not being anywhere as good (IMO). Seems that the goodwill was spent, fans did not return, and S-E was unable to replace old players with younger ones.

Spells trouble for the franchise but largely due to S-E constantly failing to properly set expectations within reason (goes all the way back to the Tomb Raider reboot).

nailed. as s-e's 'attempting to please everyone & pleasing no one' campaign continues...

 

[Eliciel]

It's very easy, just bring turn-based fights back, improve upon it and deliver an outstanding Story and Score.

 

[Oberstein]

there’s no creative level design with puzzles, environmental interaction or multi-layer questing system. FFI-FFIII place great emphasis on key items, having you figure out how to relate them to the quest and NPC’s or the level/dungeon.

Exactly.
As I'm replaying FF1 Pixel Remaster, the idea of progressing on the map based on clues left by NPCs and key items (canoe, boat) that gradually allow you to explore further and reach previously inaccessible areas still feels relevant. It's very basic at its core, but it works well. And I feel like SE either doesn't want to or can no longer translate these elements into an open world, which, in FFXVI, feels ultra-generic and serves only as a postcard.

 

[jcorb]

That’s pretty crazy, and honestly pretty sad. I haven’t played it so I can only comment as an outsider, but I’d certainly heard very good things.

For me, it just seemed way too “grim dark” which is not something I enjoy. Kind of shocking because it seemed like it was hugely popular at release, but I definitely haven’t heard much about it since.

Games seems to have a much shorter shelf life than games in the past, which makes me curious what lessons they’re going to take away from this. Doesn’t seem like they did anything “wrong” with the game; if I had to guess, maybe it was too linear and just didn’t give people a “world” they wanted to stay in for long periods of time? That could contribute to word of mouth having dried up, where many FF titles have lasting power in part because they just take so LONG to complete.

Otherwise, it will be interesting to see if Clive appearing in Tekken does anything to move the needle. May be worth trying to add some DLC for it, maybe crossover outfits from the other Final Fantasy games, just to try and get people talking about it again.

 

[bender]

3.5 million being a sales disaster. I miss the PS2 days when a million units was a smashing success.

 

[Myths]

Exactly.
As I'm replaying FF1 Pixel Remaster, the idea of progressing on the map based on clues left by NPCs and key items (canoe, boat) that gradually allow you to explore further and reach previously inaccessible areas still feels relevant. It's very basic at its core, but it works well. And I feel like SE either doesn't want to or can no longer translate these elements into an open world, which, in FFXVI, feels ultra-generic and serves only as a postcard.

100%. Even as I write my own stuff, I find myself thinking about what elements were integral to those RPGs in the 90’s. It’s not nostalgia, but actual game design that is every bit as relevant to the experience of a game or the medium today. Unblocking (or blocking) rivers with boulders, waterfalls in caves having secret inner caves, equipment allowing you to traverse certain terrain, small transport like canoes/boats to cross land, creative use of spells like mini/frog to downsize and enter a forest, summoning creatures swallowing up the party whole… NPC’s mentioning something you might have already seen but didn’t know the sequence to properly unlock… NPC’s stowed away underneath a bar/wine cellar, cryptic puzzles requiring actual in-game ability or level advance…

These aspects contributed to the narrative, world-building, and “epic” (in a greek sense) to the adventure. I don’t see any of the above conflicting with world design or presentation. I’m not sure if there’s complaint from focus groups who think this is too open-ended or aimless/unsolvable as they would in games like Dark Souls/Elden Ring.

So yeah, for me a sense of discovery, control, and interactivity matters more than anything else. Slowly, it seems more and more has been getting excised from every release moving us further away from the gaming medium and more like a film/cinematic knock-off supported by lightweight gameplay elements.

 

[Dr. Wilkinson]

It just didn’t look good to me, in the way that Final Fantasy 15 looked good. I love that game. Ive played it twice all the way through. Warts and all.

I also think the core like “next-gen” Final Fantasy experience is the VII remake trilogy, and that 16 was somehow like viewed as a lesser game, because of that. So there’s quite a bit of nuance going on there that Square should probably study and think about, as they decide what to do and what’s next after VII Remake part three. That’s my two cents.

 

[OuterLimits]

3.5 million being a sales disaster. I miss the PS2 days when a million units was a smashing success.

Square would disagree since FFX and FFXII sold over 6 million on PS2. One million would have been a sales disaster considering the budget and how well FF sold on original PlayStation

 

[Beechos]

Sales kinda represented the game itself. Opening chapter was amazing setting you up for an amazing story/experience and it was just blah after that. Similarly to mgs v where the opening scene was nuts and then after it the story was non existent.

 

[bender]

Square would disagree since FFX and FFXII sold over 6 million on PS2. One million would have been a sales disaster.

On a 32 million dollar budget, a million in sales would have probably be about break even. Not really a disaster.

 

[NastyPasty]

This 3.5m figure allegedly comes from a Square Enix financial briefing. Luckily, they publish these, and the ensuing Q&A online. https://www.hd.square-enix.com/eng/ir/library/explanatory.html

For example, from the Feb 2024 briefing:

Q: How is “FINAL FANTASY XVI” doing in terms of additional sales, and how much have you grown your sales of catalog titles?Has the performance of “FINAL FANTASY XVI” taught you anything that might inform how you approach sales of “FINALFANTASY VII REBIRTH?”

A: Sales of “FINAL FANTASY XVI” and associated downloadable content (DLC) continue to trend well. We want to achieve furthersales growth as we work to maximize sales over an 18-month window, and we have a variety of sales initiatives planned withthat in mind, including the release of a second round of DLC and a PC version. As regards “FINAL FANTASY VII REBIRTH,”experience has taught us that major new releases in the FINAL FANTASY franchise tend to trigger a rise in demand for backtitles. For this reason, “FINAL FANTASY VII REBIRTH” will be the first installment in the franchise whose release is accompaniedby promotional efforts specifically designed to ensure growth in sales of back titles at the time of this major launch.

I can't find reference to the 3.5m sales. A few possibilities:

• I missed it
• I didn't go back far enough (in which case the figure is old)
• It was never said
• The Analyst misunderstood
• It was removed from the transcript as inaccurate or mistaken

Bit of fact checking wouldn't harm though, before going off on the deep end based on hearsay.

 

[kiphalfton]

Make Final Fantasy games turn based again.

They screwed up the combat in FFXV and FFVII, so may as well at this point.

 

[ChorizoPicozo]

Square Enix is not taking over steam

 

[Oberstein]

100%. Even as I write my own stuff, I find myself thinking about what elements were integral to those RPGs in the 90’s. It’s not nostalgia, but actual game design that is every bit as relevant to the experience of a game or the medium today. Unblocking (or blocking) rivers with boulders, waterfalls in caves having secret inner caves, equipment allowing you to traverse certain terrain, small transport like canoes/boats to cross land, creative use of spells like mini/frog to downsize and enter a forest, summoning creatures swallowing up the party whole… NPC’s mentioning something you might have already seen but didn’t know the sequence to properly unlock… NPC’s stowed away underneath a bar/wine cellar, cryptic puzzles requiring actual in-game ability or level advance…

These aspects contributed to the narrative, world-building, and “epic” (in a greek sense) to the adventure. I don’t see any of the above conflicting with world design or presentation. I’m not sure if there’s complaint from focus groups who think this is too open-ended or aimless/unsolvable as they would in games like Dark Souls/Elden Ring.

So yeah, for me a sense of discovery, control, and interactivity matters more than anything else. Slowly, it seems more and more has been getting excised from every release moving us further away from the gaming medium and more like a film/cinematic knock-off supported by lightweight gameplay elements.

Indeed. SE needs to go back to basics: be creative. That’s why we love Japanese games—they are creative before wanting to be bigger and prettier. Whether you like or dislike the new formula, Zelda: BotW went back to the essentials on this point: making the map and, more generally, the environment creative and, above all, interactive.

Of course, FF is very different in how it approaches its lore and story, but making things epic and grandiose didn’t work with FFXVI. Some want a return to turn-based combat, others want party members above all; in the end, it really needs to be creative.

 

[DonkeyPunchJr]

That game was so bad to me I genuinely felt like I was losing my mind while playing it. Questioning reality and shit.

It was fun dunking on this game with you and Evilore in the OT. More fun than actually playing the game anyway.

 

[ChorizoPicozo]

Sales kinda represented the game itself. Opening chapter was amazing setting you up for an amazing story/experience and it was just blah after that. Similarly to mgs v where the opening scene was nuts and then after it the story was non existent.

the vast majority of players don't finish games. I think MGSV can be a long ass game with al base building and it's economy

 

[YeulEmeralda]

Hopefully this marks the end of the Westernisation of Final Fantasy. People play JRPGs for weebshit.

 

[BennyBlanco]

Square Enix is not taking over steam

Well if 2 brain dead console warriors in their mid 40s on twitter said it, it must be true.

 

[Myths]

Sales kinda represented the game itself. Opening chapter was amazing setting you up for an amazing story/experience and it was just blah after that. Similarly to mgs v where the opening scene was nuts and then after it the story was non existent.

Now I genuinely want a thread where we ask “How would you fix a game that fell off quickly after the first hour or chapter?” as this is a very common experience/complaint.

Edit: I might just do it, unless someone else wants to.

Indeed. SE needs to go back to basics: be creative. That’s why we love Japanese games—they are creative before wanting to be bigger and prettier. Whether you like or dislike the new formula, Zelda: BotW went back to the essentials on this point: making the map and, more generally, the environment creative and, above all, interactive.

Of course, FF is very different in how it approaches its lore and story, but making things epic and grandiose didn’t work with FFXVI. Some want a return to turn-based combat, others want party members above all; in the end, it really needs to be creative.

Yep. Zelda is a fine example and what I originally wanted to reference as that has always maintained this structure. But even in 1991 and before, the first few entries of FF had been incorporating these similar elements (as many early RPGs had focused on too). That’s why Zelda never disappoints in game design as the possibilities as endless. Linear dungeon -> cutscene -> QTE centric battles -> repeat gets old fast.

 

[DonkeyPunchJr]

Two things:
1) I believe the numbers.
2) FFXV sold way more than XVI despite it not being anywhere as good (IMO). Seems that the goodwill was spent, fans did not return, and S-E was unable to replace old players with younger ones.

Spells trouble for the franchise but largely due to S-E constantly failing to properly set expectations within reason (goes all the way back to the Tomb Raider reboot).

I wouldn’t call XV a great game but I thought it was way better than XVI. At least it had party members with some personality + lots of stuff to do and explore. Also felt like it actually had some magic and mystery to it.

 

[The_Observer]

It was not the best game ever, but a solid 8 with some very good parts like the visuals in certain scenes, the music and the story/characters. Deserved more sales imo

 

[SiahWester]

I would have bought it if I could play it on my Steam Deck. Make it accessible for everyone. That'd be a start.

 

[Fbh]

Seems pretty high considering the game isn't very good.

IMO people focus too much on the action vs turn based discussion when the real issue is that the game was mid at best.
If FFXVI was the exact same game but they replaced the action combat with an equally basic and unchallenging turn based combat it would have been just as bad.

Had it been an action RPG with multiple playable characters (or more weapon variety and builds), actual difficulty modes that offer a challenge, deeper combat, a well designed world that's fun to explore, worthwhile side quests and loot, and story that stayed true to the more political intrigue style of the opening instead of devolving into the same cookie cutter stuff as most JRPGs, it would have probably done better

 

[Killer8]

The age of Final Fantasy exclusive to one platform needs to go. FFXVII should be Switch 2 lead platform with an updated port to PS5/6 and PC day and date. Maximize that revenue.

You can leave off Xbox as no one cares about that though.

 

[Giallo Corsa]

I wouldn’t call XV a great game but I thought it was way better than XVI. At least it had party members with some personality + lots of stuff to do and explore. Also felt like it actually had some magic and mystery to it.

I agree, although, 15 had a very weird disconnect between its esthetics and map/lore, I mean, you had 4 dudes straight out of a J-pop band, a modern vehicle, the general esthetics/vibe being "contemporary"/modern and pop -y and yet, somehow, you'd fight undead skeletons complete with scythes, giant turtles and all kinds of weird shit - the whole art direction felt VERY disconnected/at odds with each other to the point of making you think that maybe, they had a whole different vision for the game and in the end they just tape-glued things together hoping that the whole thing would stick...
It's like this VERY weird mix of contrasting esthetics salad.

... something which 16 completely avoids since the esthetics/art-direction is much more coherent but, it's got other problems in the form of an extremely easy difficulty, MMO-like quests etc etc.

I'm playing 16 at the moment (just fought Bahamut) and while I do enjoy what I'm playing (very much so since it's a very chill game) I do get the people mentioning its shortcomings, on the other hand, the sheer amount of work that's been put into it is astounding and IMO, isn't deserving of all the extreme bad mouthing and hatred it gets.

It's a solid 7.5/10 game but some people act like it offended them on a personal level/ killed their dog or something.

 

[SweetTooth]

I thought Steam release means guaranteed success!!

Man, the series has really gone downhill the last couple of decades. They used to be so innovative and groundbreaking. Now it feels like they're just rehashing the same old tired tropes. The developers really haven't done enough to keep the series fresh. It's a shame to see such a beloved franchise lose its luster. Its Square Enix fault that things went bad for the franchise.

 

[ChorizoPicozo]

Well if 2 brain dead console warriors in their mid 40s on twitter said it, it must be true.

DeepSeek:
### Conclusion:
The assertion that PC sales are **sub 200K** is plausible, given the PS5’s head start and typical sales decay. However, without explicit data, this remains speculative. The analysis underscores the importance of transparent platform-specific reporting and contextualizing post-launch sales trends.

Chat GPT:
The numbers strongly suggest *Final Fantasy XVI* had a **weak PC launch**, likely well under 500K copies sold. If it had performed better, Square Enix would likely have highlighted its success. Instead, the total sales figure (3.5M) implies that its PC impact was minimal.

Grok:
Conclusion:
Your reasoning holds up: the 3.5 million total likely reflects mostly PS5 sales, with PC contributing a smaller portion. The game probably surpassed 3 million on PS5 before the PC launch, given its 15-month head start. PC sales of under 200,000 are possible—perhaps even likely—if PS5 sales continued at a slow pace post-launch. The data doesn’t contradict your estimate, though official breakdowns would be needed to confirm it.
If you’d like, I can search X or the web for more context on Final Fantasy XVI’s PC performance or community reactions to refine this further. Let me know!

 

[rofif]

you people are miserable fucks.
This is one of most impressive ps5 games. The spectacle, the amazing graphics, really cool combat.
The only downside is some poor pacing in the middle of the game.
I finished this game in 50 hours and every evening, I was bawking my eyes at new fight.
Just polished and pure extasy.
Stop with this "not ff, not turn based". It's a great game. Unclench your asses.
40 screenshots in demo folder, 300 screenshots in full game folder. What an experience!

People saying this game is shit are idiots. You don't have to like THIS STYLE OF GAME but what it, it's amazing.
From amazing graphics, music, action, spectacle, characters. Fuck hell yes. This might be the best looking and most accomplished ps5 game.
This is why I play video games. To experience THIS.

Mod edit: Added quote tags

 

[SHA]

Gamers fatigue, now I understand the reason most games don't sell this gen.

 

[LordOcidax]

I thought Steam release means guaranteed success!!

Man, the series has really gone downhill the last couple of decades. They used to be so innovative and groundbreaking. Now it feels like they're just rehashing the same old tired tropes. The developers really haven't done enough to keep the series fresh. It's a shame to see such a beloved franchise lose its luster. Its Square Enix fault that things went bad for the franchise.

Thats when game is released the same day on consoles and PC, look at Monster Hunter Wilds results. Still, FXVII didn’t great on PS5 either.

 

[SHA]

you people are miserable fucks.
This is one of most impressive ps5 games. The spectacle, the amazing graphics, really cool combat.
The only downside is some poor pacing in the middle of the game.
I finished this game in 50 hours and every evening, I was bawking my eyes at new fight.
Just polished and pure extasy.
Stop with this "not ff, not turn based". It's a great game. Unclench your asses.
40 screenshots in demo folder, 300 screenshots in full game folder. What an experience!

People saying this game is shit are idiots. You don't have to like THIS STYLE OF GAME but what it, it's amazing.
From amazing graphics, music, action, spectacle, characters. Fuck hell yes. This might be the best looking and most accomplished ps5 game.
This is why I play video games. To experience THIS.

I don't hate the series actually like many Gaffers do. Most hate comments are irrelevant to me anyway.

 

[rofif]

I don't hate the series actually like many Gaffers do.

Rant / I feel that the hate FF XV got is not for what it is.
But for what it is not.
This is an amazing game on it's own but the diehard fans can't take anything that isn't ancient fucking turn based gameplay just so they can "feel" like they are playing something deeper than an aciton game.
That turn based combat was only there because the tech was not up there to realize real time combat the developers wanted back then.

Wow such tactical, I get to pause and choose my attack - TIS AN RPG!!!!!!! A serious game! not devil may cry !

 

[Clear]

I thought Steam release means guaranteed success!!

Depends if you consider units sold, or revenue gained.

Seems to me PC is deep-discount land, especially over the long-term because there's so many titles competing for attention.
Also, its not like Steam don't take just as big bite out for their cut as console platform owners, not to mention their much more relaxed policy on returns.

Sorry, but I really don't buy into this idea that PC is easy revenue, and I sure as hell don't think not releasing day and date is particularly damaging to sales.

 

[rofif]

Depends if you consider units sold, or revenue gained.

Seems to me PC is deep-discount land, especially over the long-term because there's so many titles competing for attention.
Also, its not like Steam don't take just as big bite out for their cut as console platform owners, not to mention their much more relaxed policy on returns.

Sorry, but I really don't buy into this idea that PC is easy revenue, and I sure as hell don't think not releasing day and date is particularly damaging to sales.

the game launched for 40$.
They had no balls and faith in their product to launch a game like that for 40$

 

[Buggy Loop]

That game was so bad to me I genuinely felt like I was losing my mind while playing it. Questioning reality and shit.

It was fun dunking on this game with you and Evilore in the OT. More fun than actually playing the game anyway.

Wait, I don’t recognize you guys nor Evilore in Avowed thread shilling for it? Why is James Sawyer Ford making imaginary accusations again with Xbox as the enemy?

Do you dream of adamsapple at night James?

 

[BennyBlanco]

DeepSeek:
### Conclusion:
The assertion that PC sales are **sub 200K** is plausible, given the PS5’s head start and typical sales decay. However, without explicit data, this remains speculative. The analysis underscores the importance of transparent platform-specific reporting and contextualizing post-launch sales trends.

Chat GPT:
The numbers strongly suggest *Final Fantasy XVI* had a **weak PC launch**, likely well under 500K copies sold. If it had performed better, Square Enix would likely have highlighted its success. Instead, the total sales figure (3.5M) implies that its PC impact was minimal.

Grok:
Conclusion:
Your reasoning holds up: the 3.5 million total likely reflects mostly PS5 sales, with PC contributing a smaller portion. The game probably surpassed 3 million on PS5 before the PC launch, given its 15-month head start. PC sales of under 200,000 are possible—perhaps even likely—if PS5 sales continued at a slow pace post-launch. The data doesn’t contradict your estimate, though official breakdowns would be needed to confirm it.
If you’d like, I can search X or the web for more context on Final Fantasy XVI’s PC performance or community reactions to refine this further. Let me know!

There is literally no news in the article. It’s just saying SE never updated the sales. Did it flop on PC? Very likely, because by the time it came out on Steam most people agreed it’s a bad game.

But what are you trying to illustrate by posting those tweets? Do you think those guys are insiders with some sources in Square Enix? They are old crusty console warriors who are chronically online and constantly malding. Might as well have posted a screenshot of a james ford post.

 

[SweetTooth]

Thats when game is released the same day on consoles and PC, look at Monster Hunter Wilds results. Still, FXVII didn’t great on PS5 either.

Franchise fatigue and depreciation plus bad SE management of the product. It has nothing to do with Playstation.

People are asking for a turn based old school game, SE is doing GoT action replica.

Of course it won't sell

 

[Conflict NZ]

Less than the Mario RPG remake lmao

 

[ChorizoPicozo]

Did it flop on PC? Very likely

If Benny Blanco says it, it must be true.

 

[Sentenza]

you people are miserable fucks.
This is one of most impressive ps5 games

Holy weaponized autism, Batman.

 

[BennyBlanco]

If Benny Blanco says it, it must be true.

Ok. Now go post a screenshot of my post somewhere else and it will be exactly as dumb as the screenshot you posted here.

 

[rofif]

Holy weaponized autism, Batman.

Autism. Because I enjoyed playing a good game.
Why are you even here if you hate video games. Why are you people doing this to yourself and others

 

[ChorizoPicozo]

Ok. Now go post a screenshot of my post somewhere else and it will be exactly as dumb as the screenshot you posted here.

You keep focusing on the individual rather than the argument.

You can have solid arguments as a console warrior and retard arguments as an expert/pundit, leaker or insider