UnemployedVillain
Member
Ehh, not sure that's really helping to prove your point. Aside from the weightlifter and hammer throw picture, those bodies probably vary as much as the ones in SF do
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SFV R. Mika default costume was deemed too revealing by ESPN
- Thread starter miku
- Start date
Ehh, not sure that's really helping to prove your point. Aside from the weightlifter and hammer throw picture, those bodies probably vary as much as the ones in SF do
What?
This is the tallest female character vs the shortest female character in SFV.
Zero SFV women have small boobs (in fact, some of them now have BIGGER boobs than before). All SFV women have near-ideal hip to waist ratios.
mikefrails
Banned
The ass-out part is what makes it ridiculous lol.
I get it.
I get it.
Garrett Hawke
Member
I love how you only showed the faces. Showing the bodies too demonstrates just how little variety there is in body shape:These women look the same to you?
meanwhile the dudes:
muscle, muscle, muscle, muscle, skinny muscle, ripped, dinosaur, skinny muscle, muscle, fat, thin, like an insect
meanwhile girls is just hourglass hourglass hourglass hourglass hourglass
I'm sorry but Mika definitely has muscle.
Garrett Hawke
Member
She also still has a fat ass and big ol tiddies
Apart from muscle definition there is very little to differentiate the girls' bodies. Compare that to the guys, wherein you could easily pick Zangief, Birdie, Fang, Dhalsim and Vega out of a lineup, even if they were naked and their heads were covered.
Sixfortyfive
He who pursues two rabbits gets two rabbits.
Sometimes it's hard to tell behind the outfit and tits, though.
#teamside.
Under rarely happens in nature and is therefore an artifice and an affront to god.
DeepEnigma
Gold Member
But when it does... oooooh but when it does.
SneakersSO
Member
I mean, the women look the most anatomically correct when compared to a human, whereas the men look absolutely ridiculous. I do think there are a few notable differences in the women though, particularly with Mika, Cammy & Laura. Mika does have a big chest & a huge butt, but as someone who knows a female body builder & has seen her with her colleagues, this is actually quite common among women who build up a huge amount of muscle. The only thing Mika is missing is a bit more muscle definition in the shoulders - the broad back on the other hand is something none of the other female characters have. I haven't seen any women who come close to the size of Zangief though, when taking both muscle size & height into consideration.
Laura is actually very different in that she doesn't have a flat mid-section. She's actually quite chubby in the middle region, and lacks any sort of muscle tone in her abs. It's something none of the other female cast actually showcase that, even in their more revealing alts. Cammy also has really, really thin hips with exposed/protruding hip bones.
However, this all comes back to SFV is borrowing heavily from anime-inspired characters, which doesn't surprise me since this is coming from Japanese artists. This is just their take on anime characters in a 3D perspective. We really don't see women with outlandish designs in anime, hence why we probably won't see something thats too different from female anime character designs in SF.
The only real body type I feel the female roster in SF is truly missing is one of a heavy-set character like Birdie, or E.Honda before him. Considering how difficult it is to get fat characters in games/media regardless of gender, I don't really see when we could expect a heavy-set female character in Street Fighter. I think there would need to be a real-life fighter they could draw some inspiration from first (a heavy-set female fighter on the size Birdie or Honda) that hits big that enables them to go that route. Are there female sumos leagues in Japan or is that a male only sport?
It's ok to have a large number of characters with a traditional body type - Ryu, Ken, Nash, Guile, Urien, Alex all have pretty standard male frames and proportions. It's that you need to include the non-standard ones on top of that, and they've done a better job w/ the male cast on that front over the years, in large part due to the relatively small # of female characters.
W/ SFV having a deliberate 2:1 M/F ratio, hopefully they'll make attempts to work on that with future seasons.
W/ SFV having a deliberate 2:1 M/F ratio, hopefully they'll make attempts to work on that with future seasons.
Awesome Kong/Kharma from pro wrestling immediately comes to mind.
Garrett Hawke
Member
I agree that there are subtle tweaks like Chun's thighs and Mika's physique but I just wish they would take it further. It just bums me out that women are never allowed to appear grotesque like Fang or Birdie or Zangief because that would be unattractive, which they are not allowed to be. :/
DeepEnigma
Gold Member
costume sales. Karin Bikini was #1
The sad truth. I just think that there are some talented people out there that could make a different body type female character AND have cool costumes that people would buy for her.
"quite chubby" lol.
SFV women only have marginal tweaks to their physique. It's really strange seeing people try to act like they're totally different. Just look at the variety of proportions in both of these images -- it's night and day.
But it's not just the body shapes, either. Women in SFV aren't allowed to be weird. There's no women in SF that compare to Necro, Blanka, Dhalsim, Twelve, FANG, Oro, Q, or even Seth. There's no women that look old, but we have Gen and Gouken.
All the women look young and attractive. Sure, slight variations but c'mon -- it's just silly to suggest the female cast is diverse in the context of SF. You'd have more of a point if ALL SF characters were normal humans, but that's not SF -- it's only the women that are limited to normal.
PFFT HAHA!
Ah...::tearwipe:: no.
It's not just SF5, I'd say that women in all video games aren't allowed to be weird and prominent. The largest break from normality on both sides of the spectrum probably belong to Helga from Loadout or Hisako from KI. Unless you are a side character who doesn't matter to the overall outcome of a game, you aren't really allowed to be anything but a model in games, which makes character designs completely stifling. It's the same way in anime, which is why we have the trope of all girls in every anime being exactly the same with variable voices, hair colors and breast sizes. Even when women are supposed to be groetseque monsters, they're usually still incredibly attractive women with one giant abnormality that steals the eye away from exposed features.
Totally agree. Seeing the model swap videos -- what really stood out to me was how cool it looked to see a female character with more serious animations. I can't find the Cammy one, but this Laura one is ok too.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JGyNWMlmNys
Necali at 7:20 or so
Nash at 9:52 or so
Or even just Ryu at 3:55 or so
Seems so easy to make a bad ass female character, but it is so rare. Necali and Nash animations look so destructive and violent -- gives a sense of scary power that you almost never see in female characters. Ryu's animations show so much intent and a sense of expertise in fighting. Then pay attention to the animations for female characters, which look more like dancing or something (more apparent when a male character is mapped to them). I think that's why Makoto was so cool to see.
edit: I think it also makes the lack of diversity pretty apparent when all the women can be mapped to each other's animations with relatively few oddities, while that's not at all true for the male cast.
I mean very rarely is any main character ugly. Male or Female.
Birdie is joke character ATM. FANG is a badguy. Its not at inherently evil as people make it out to be. These creators general create characters that look cool or hot to them, and if they don't then generally those characters are either a joke or you are supposed to hate them.
Of fat dudes, Bob from Tekken is the only one who is supposed to be "cool" and even then.
Not saying that is right or good but generally those in position of actually creating things, tend to do so according to their tastes first and foremost because that's what they are passionate about.
Could you imagine, someone creating a large women and then making Birdie esque jokes about her....they'd get bodied.
I think they could have buffed up Mika a lot more or added a Makoto type to diversify the cast more for sure tho
Birdie is joke character ATM. FANG is a badguy. Its not at inherently evil as people make it out to be. These creators general create characters that look cool or hot to them, and if they don't then generally those characters are either a joke or you are supposed to hate them.
Of fat dudes, Bob from Tekken is the only one who is supposed to be "cool" and even then.
Not saying that is right or good but generally those in position of actually creating things, tend to do so according to their tastes first and foremost because that's what they are passionate about.
Could you imagine, someone creating a large women and then making Birdie esque jokes about her....they'd get bodied.
I think they could have buffed up Mika a lot more or added a Makoto type to diversify the cast more for sure tho
thats kinda how fighting in skirts work tho.
Cammy dashes, and suddenly her skirt goes upside down.
Same with Ibuki. Like, who agreed to have this in the game?
To be fair, I think that was less of a conscious decision opposed to the fact that the physics engine in the game is garbage, which was what gave us the super bouncy boobs in the early versions of the game.
There are a few mods for SF5 that reassign physics for models and costumes and suddenly, things like Chunli's insane boobs or Cammy's handstanding skirt don't happen anymore.
hey_it's_that_dog
benevolent sexism
It's not like they were surprised to find a physics engine in their game. They can't hide behind "oh every single thing a woman does shows her panties? it's just realistic physics guys we didn't know this would happen!"
Basketball
Member
When Bob was revealed during the weekend
I did the biggest facepalm.
He looks so stupid , hated the way he looks and fights in Tekken prior. I am definitely not the only one who feels this way. Fat characters are whatever it's just the ridiculousness of his fighting style vs his body. I also don't like that they changed Birdie's weight. If your a sumo wrestler like Honda then fine it makes sense but it just looks so damn dumb. That is probably why females have an athletic build because lets be honest females will be judged by the masses for their looks by the masses 9x / 10 vs Males in video games and in RL.
Also hope for no animals in Tekken 7
I did the biggest facepalm.
He looks so stupid , hated the way he looks and fights in Tekken prior. I am definitely not the only one who feels this way. Fat characters are whatever it's just the ridiculousness of his fighting style vs his body. I also don't like that they changed Birdie's weight. If your a sumo wrestler like Honda then fine it makes sense but it just looks so damn dumb. That is probably why females have an athletic build because lets be honest females will be judged by the masses for their looks by the masses 9x / 10 vs Males in video games and in RL.
Also hope for no animals in Tekken 7
Ultimadrago
Member
If it were up to me Tekken would be subtitled "Breath of The Wild Hunt"! I love me some animal characters. But alas, according to the official polls preceding the game everyone agrees with you
No more Alex, No more Roger...at least give me Kuma, Harada-san!
GeorgioCostanzaX
Member
It was really damn good, I could see myself actually watching ESPN2 regularly if presentations of that high production value become more common.
SneakersSO
Member
I fully, FULLY agree with you that its a shame that we don't see other forms of female anime-character & non-anime female personas in terms of appearance. Honestly though, thats on anime & anime artists to broaden & expand their horizons & depictions.
Even when we look at our female athletes in competitive sports, we tend to favor the ones who are more 'marketable', which is something that is very well documented when observing who gets marketing deals in women's tennis versus who is actually dominating the sport. Heck, one of the reasons Rhonda Rousey was so openly accepted was partially because she was very attractive for a female combat athlete.
In this sense, Elena is actually a pretty important character in terms of appearance diversity for a female character. She's VERY tall and has a lanky body proportion for her extremities. I'd probably push to have her in as well, although this wouldn't really fit the whole 'ugly or goofy' looking character, since Elena still relatively very attractive. Hey, its a start though.
Streaming needs to learn from how ESPN presented things. They were newcomers to this and made the veterans look like rookies. They were trying to bring new people in with terminology and stories and whatnot, while streaming is like 'you know this stuff already' when most don't.
Ugly female characters don't sell.
Asian culture is more superficial about looks. Just look at Korean women K-Pop bands
and a lot of them had a lot of plastic surgery done.
Bosman at Home episode 3: 22 minutes into the video
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=onScwrHP2g0
Paraphrasing: Notice how Nintendo male Mario universe characters have weird bozo shaped bodies, while their female princesses are slender.
Final Fantasy has only one ugly female character in the entire series and it was the villain Queen Brahne in FF9. They made her ugly to make her as unlikeable as possible:
Here is the female villain from FF13 Jihl Nabaat. Fans were upset that she was not used more in the story before she was killed off abruptly. Had she looked like Queen Brahne, nobody would care.
.
Asian culture is more superficial about looks. Just look at Korean women K-Pop bands
and a lot of them had a lot of plastic surgery done.
Bosman at Home episode 3: 22 minutes into the video
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=onScwrHP2g0
Paraphrasing: Notice how Nintendo male Mario universe characters have weird bozo shaped bodies, while their female princesses are slender.
Final Fantasy has only one ugly female character in the entire series and it was the villain Queen Brahne in FF9. They made her ugly to make her as unlikeable as possible:
Here is the female villain from FF13 Jihl Nabaat. Fans were upset that she was not used more in the story before she was killed off abruptly. Had she looked like Queen Brahne, nobody would care.
.
Mr. Poolman
Member
Sixfortyfive
He who pursues two rabbits gets two rabbits.
Chris Ceglia (FGC production guy) was basically in charge of both the streaming and broadcast parts of EVO, AFAIK. And the on-air talent was all FGC (Seth, Mike, Gootecks).
The ESPN broadcast is what happens when you give a guy like him a TV budget and crew.
I think the heart decals pushed the old design toward the more obnoxious end of the spectrum, honestly.
No, the problem is they know their physics engine is shit and their solution on a lot of the weird sexual stuff that's come up thus far has been to just shut it off rather than fix it.
Ugly female characters don't sell.
Asian culture is more superficial about looks. Just look at Korean women K-Pop bands
and a lot of them had a lot of plastic surgery done.
Bosman at Home episode 3: 22 minutes into the video
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=onScwrHP2g0
Paraphrasing: Notice how Nintendo male Mario universe characters have weird bozo shaped bodies, while their female princesses are slender.
Final Fantasy has only one ugly female character in the entire series and it was the villain Queen Brahne in FF9. They made her ugly to make her as unlikeable as possible:
Here is the female villain from FF13 Jihl Nabaat. Fans were upset that she was not used more in the story before she was killed off abruptly. Had she looked like Queen Brahne, nobody would care.
.
Yes, but that's the rub, you're not only catering to an Asian market. If you're making big games these days, you NEED to appeal to a global audience. If you don't, you get left in the dust or you find yourself under the same scrutiny that Temco or Bamco are under for DOAX or Senran Kagura.
As for Queen Brane...that's sort of a week argument because she, as a character, is supposed to be seen as greedy, slovenly and weak. I think a better examble for your argument is from the same game, Quina
Most didn't like her because she was bizzare and weird, often times ignorant to the point of stupidity, but still charming. The backlash against her was pretty sever, but that didn't stop her from being another interesting character.
And let's not get it twisted, we don't have to love every character in a game. But when you start using a single body type with adjustable boobs and hair, you're going to end up in a place where you can't grow. Everyone looks the same and you just hope that the shallowness of your audience is deep enough to keep the facade going. It's a problem that anime has in spades right now.
Jihl, people wanted her to have a more prominant role because, much like Cidney for FF15, she was featured heavily before the game was released, was talked about like she was going to be a major villain, and was then flushed, figuratively and literally, down a toilet. It made no sense and her villain replacement was a bundle of confusion that served no purpose by to keep the player second guessing until you got to the end of the game. It was wasted potential. Jihl's design was pretty great though.
I don't know how well it sold but I am guessing something like Fat Princess did not sell well worldwide.
Especially in Asian countries and France.
Especially in Asian countries and France.
I don't know how well it sold but I am guessing something like Fat Princess did not sell well worldwide.
Especially in Asian countries and France.
Well enough to get a couple sequels.
Honestly, the thing that hobbled it the most was probably the fact that they leaned real heavy on the PSP version of the game.
Hell, the last one was just a few months ago.
Fat Princess is a weird thing because it is the most real example of the idea of the female character, body types aside, being literally delegated as the ball in a game between men.
Games are fun though.
So bad ass. Don't even care about the costume when I see her kicking that much ass.
Edit: Watching this, it really reinforces what's been bugging me about SF for a while now. I always considered SF to be the "classy" fighting game franchise, but that's mostly informed by SF3, the game that got me into competitive SF. I'd mentioned how much it bugged me that there was so much cheesecake in an earlier post on another thread and someone pointed to SF alpha as proof it'd always been there.
The reality is that it has been there, but the way they animated the characters, coupled with the low resolution, made it seem so much less in your face. It was easily ignored.
But it's the animations that really bug me. The camera angles and the way the characters pose and move. SF3 just didn't have that crap. Even Elena, who has basically no clothing on, doesn't feel egregious because of how she's animated (and her body proportions in that game). She's hunched over, constantly moving, and powerful looking. But it also lives and dies on the ambiguity of the sprites and really reinforcing that sexy stuff would have taken more resources than it was worth. Now it's just so easy to swing a camera around to look at Cammy's ass or get a low angle shot of some boob jiggle.
Hi i'm Caleb
Member
Thread made me realize I need a kung fu granny in SFV asap
sixteen-bit
Member
shoutouts to Power Instinct