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[Cindi Mayweather]

Forgive me if this has been mentioned earlier, but UDON artist Omar Dogan (always one of my favourite artists from the SF comic), drew this on his Instagram:

https://www.instagram.com/p/BIEyIbLhdYu/?taken-by=omar.dogan.5

...and he himself lamented that SFV has taken its female characters in a more crass direction, and he missed the sense of playfulness that used to be present in the series artwork.

SF has never been perfect in how it represented its women, but I always loved how there was soooo much official artwork from artbooks and such, portraying the characters in down-to-earth or even comical situations.

Chun-Li/Cammy's endings in SSFII:

Some art from artbooks:








...and it's just an atmosphere that SFIV and SFV don't seem to have, y'know? We don't ever get to see those kinds of ordinary, everyday character moments in the recent storylines or artwork. I dunno, I just feel like it's such a waste.

With Cammy especially, while the thong leotard started in Alpha and some of its victory poses, it was only SFIV that applied it to her Delta Red outfit. In SFII it had more coverage, but then IV decided to take that away and make the buttshots into a bigger focus (e.g. that infamous intro, her SSFIV artwork...).

R. Mika wasn't a blatantly sexual character in Alpha 3. She was goofy, over-designed, and provided a lot of comedy with her silly animations. But then V comes around, and it feels like all the fun and sincerity is gone and replaced with lewdness. I almost wish she was never brought back because of how much I hate how shameless the dialogue around her and her portrayal (her artwork is a damn boobs-and-butt pose) has become.

I definitely see where he's coming from and it was fascinating to see that coming from someone so involved in the series. I dunno, this is probably kind of a mess, but I think Omar really nailed why I'm bothered so much by how the classic characters and ESPECIALLY the female ones are portrayed in IV and V. There's an element of playfulness to the characters that just seems to have been lost, and some of what's replaced it comes off as pretty tasteless.

(Maybe it's just Ono's SF in general I don't care for. I hate how it feels like under him, the humourous aspects of the characters have become less subtle and more beating-you-over-the-head with them. Birdie being turned into a doughnut-loving glutton is the worst example of this to me.)

One aspect I'm sick of Ono's SF is how every stage has a crowd of people being super into it and there's a bunch of stupid goofy shit going on in the background like dancing bears. Bison's stage in V is amazing in terms of design and then you've got people chasing robots and all of this stupid quackery going on in the background. Karin's stage is fantastic but honestly no npc needs to be there but the butler. The npcs in the China, India, and Kanzuki beach stage make sense, but there's no more atmospheric stages like Ryu's in II, or the grass field/snow Japanese temple/Thaialnd stage like in Alpha 2. They exist in some form (like day/night version of the waterfall stage) but they're exceptions.

 

[Mesoian]

One aspect I'm sick of Ono's SF is how every stage has a crowd of people being super into it and there's a bunch of stupid goofy shit going on in the background like dancing bears. Bison's stage in V is amazing in terms of design and then you've got people chasing robots and all of this stupid quackery going on in the background. Karin's stage is fantastic but honestly no npc needs to be there but the butler. The npcs in the China, India, and Kanzuki beach stage make sense, but there's no more atmospheric stages like Ryu's in II, or the grass field/snow Japanese temple/Thaialnd stage like in Alpha 2. They exist in some form (like day/night version of the waterfall stage) but they're exceptions.

The best part of the PC version is being able to use a mod to turn all that shit off.

 

[JP_]

The screen moves because they have the ability to do so now thanks to it being in 3d. This kinda comes with the advancement of technology.

"well they didn't do it back then" is a shit defense. No shit they didn't do back then...they couldn't.

I'm not even arguing that Mika's lewdness has been amped up...but to act like that never was apart of the character is just silly.

A lot of things you could get away with in 2D don't always translate. Mika become more lewd is a product of that.

But to say there is no fun in the character and that she is all about sex appeal is disingenuous as fuck or shows that you aren't paying as much attention as you may think. Butt Slap and CA aside, Mika is very rarely about TnA character wise. Its actually not brought up at all silly as that may be (walking around a secret base in a wrestling costume is silly shit lol) in universe. AFAIK, she doesn't even have many provactive poses (i.e taunts and win poses) as one may think she would. And her personality is that of a loud mouth, kinda stupid, ....and just very similar to Gief overall. Yeah the design is meant for cheesecake...will not deny that. Nor do I even hold it against ESPN for their rule. Nor do I not get why some may find it to be too much. But I also think people are selling the character a bit short here...especially if the "better" version is supposed to be Alpha.

They weren't forced to zoom in. And judging by her A3 artwork, she wasn't meant to be super titillating back then even if there were 2D limitations. There's a clear shift with the SFV artwork.

Agree that moving to 3D and having that extra clarity can change how things are perceived, but that's something that Capcom should obviously consider when bringing over the character. If they wanted to maintain the same feeling, they probably would have eased up on her sexualized costume right? Instead, they exposed MORE of her ass and boobs. It's pretty clear what they were doing in SFV. You can see a pattern with the other characters getting bigger boobs and more revealing costumes. I find it really strange that there are people suggesting this isn't the case.

Also, I think you're misrepresenting NinjaCoachZ's posts. He's saying that the increased sexualization gets in the way of the playfulness, not that they specifically removed playfulness.

 

[NinjaCoachZ]

The screen moves because they have the ability to do so now thanks to it being in 3d. This kinda comes with the advancement of technology.

"well they didn't do it back then" is a shit defense. No shit they didn't do back then...they couldn't.

A lot of things you could get away with in 2D don't always translate. Mika become more lewd is a product of that.

I mean, that's not even much better, is it? Doesn't it seem telling that when they get the ability to move the screen and other such improvements in technology, their logical next step is to ramp up the lewdness or zoom in on a butt?

But to say there is no fun in the character and that she is all about sex appeal is disingenuous as fuck or shows that you aren't paying as much attention as you may think. Butt Slap and CA aside, Mika is very rarely about TnA character wise. Its actually not brought up at all silly as that may be (walking around a secret base in a wrestling costume is silly shit lol) in universe. AFAIK, she doesn't even have many provactive poses (i.e taunts and win poses) as one may think she would. And her personality is that of a loud mouth, kinda stupid, ....and just very similar to Gief overall. Yeah the design is meant for cheesecake...will not deny that. Nor do I even hold it against ESPN for their rule. Nor do I not get why some may find it to be too much. But I also think people are selling the character a bit short here...especially if the "better" version is supposed to be Alpha.

Already touched on this in my last post. Is Mika exclusively about sexuality and stuff? Nah. But the stuff that's there and surrounding it really makes those other aspects seem more insincere, and Street Fighter in general has a problem of the characters coming off that way nowadays (hollow or insincere or one-dimensional).

One aspect I'm sick of Ono's SF is how every stage has a crowd of people being super into it and there's a bunch of stupid goofy shit going on in the background like dancing bears. Bison's stage in V is amazing in terms of design and then you've got people chasing robots and all of this stupid quackery going on in the background. Karin's stage is fantastic but honestly no npc needs to be there but the butler. The npcs in the China, India, and Kanzuki beach stage make sense, but there's no more atmospheric stages like Ryu's in II, or the grass field/snow Japanese temple/Thaialnd stage like in Alpha 2. They exist in some form (like day/night version of the waterfall stage) but they're exceptions.

Yeah, I think that's the overarching problem. Street Fighter under Ono just has this overall vibe of trying too hard to be zany and carnival-like and so funny. Street Fighter X Tekken was a really bad example of this. Going in, Ono was all, "this will be such a serious game, the SF and Tekken characters hate each other", and the actual story content was 6 hours' worth of unfunny OTT nonsense. Plus the game's aesthetic was a real eyesore and the stages were unbearably busy. The game felt like a massive sensory assault on every level.

Ono's social media or PR antics are kind of amusing in themselves but it almost feels like they're being injected into the games and it's pretty overbearing.

They weren't forced to zoom in. And judging by her A3 artwork, she wasn't meant to be super titillating back then even if there were 2D limitations. There's a clear shift with the SFV artwork.

Agree that moving to 3D and having that extra clarity can change how things are perceived, but that's something that Capcom should obviously consider when bringing over the character. If they wanted to maintain the same feeling, they probably would have eased up on her sexualized costume right? Instead, they exposed MORE of her ass and boobs. It's pretty clear what they were doing in SFV. You can see a pattern with the other characters getting bigger boobs and more revealing costumes. I find it really strange that there are people suggesting this isn't the case.

Also, I think you're misrepresenting NinjaCoachZ's posts. He's saying that the increased sexualization gets in the way of the playfulness, not that they specifically removed playfulness.

Yup. Pretty much this.

 

[SolidSnakex]

lol compare that with

Not only did they make it more of a thong, a freeze frame on a tiny sprite on your screen is not really comparable to zooming in to her butt to see her slap it and watch it jiggle.

My point is that they both sexualized. That's all i'm saying. I think NinjaCoachZ picking and choosing here. Bringing up one set of Nishumura art while ignoring others is one of them. She's responsible for some of the most sexualized art in the history of the franchise. The most well known Cammy figure is based on her art. Hell the most well known Mai figure is based on her art. And both are extremely sexualized. But those poses and others are extremely popular to the point that they've been adopted into SF. Same for AKIMAN (Cammy's idle pose is based on his art).

 

[JP_]

Forgive me if this has been mentioned earlier, but UDON artist Omar Dogan (always one of my favourite artists from the SF comic), drew this on his Instagram:

https://www.instagram.com/p/BIEyIbLhdYu/?taken-by=omar.dogan.5

...and he himself lamented that SFV has taken its female characters in a more crass direction, and he missed the sense of playfulness that used to be present in the series artwork.

Wanted to embed it just in case anybody missed it.

 

[jett]

I don't think you can deny that the fan service is a bit over the top in SFV. The proportions the girls have are pretty ridiculous, as is some of their outfits. It's easy to see what Omar is saying.

 

[Wolfgunblood Garopa]

R Mika has always been a trash character and should have never been in V without a considerable design change.

That's the Ono special right there. I wonder about him.

 

[Mik317]

Mika is one of Onos favorite characters

 

[joe2187]

Forgive me if this has been mentioned earlier, but UDON artist Omar Dogan (always one of my favourite artists from the SF comic), drew this on his Instagram:

https://www.instagram.com/p/BIEyIbLhdYu/?taken-by=omar.dogan.5

...and he himself lamented that SFV has taken its female characters in a more crass direction, and he missed the sense of playfulness that used to be present in the series artwork.

Yo, nice. Omar Dogan is the artist that did my Ibuki Avatar.

I was really hoping since he was artist for Ibuki's comic run that the new SFV costume would have been his design.

 

[Fitts]

I have to concede that I can just never see the "sexualization" of characters in gaming and animation because that implies a sense of physical attraction to something that isn't a human being. I look at Mika and perceive a ridiculous personality with some ridiculous animations wrapped in a ridiculous costume -- the sum being comedy.

 

[SolidSnakex]

Yo, nice. Omar Dogan is the artist that did my Ibuki Avatar.

I was really hoping since he was artist for Ibuki's comic run that the new SFV costume would have been his design.

Their own art for her is pretty awesome. I hope that this is still in the pipeline

 

[NinjaCoachZ]

Wanted to embed it just in case anybody missed it.

Merci beaucoup.

Yo, nice. Omar Dogan is the artist that did my Ibuki Avatar.

I was really hoping since he was artist for Ibuki's comic run that the new SFV costume would have been his design.

Ah, I'd recognize Omar's art style anywhere! So good.

Man, I love the UDON comics because the people there really seem to get that spirit which made me love Street Fighter. In the years since IV came out, it seems like Capcom haven't nearly produced as much supplemental artwork and such compared to the II/Alpha/III era, and it just feels like a waste considering what a unique and iconic cast they have to work with. It made me really happy to see Omar write up that post since I always felt he had a great grasp on the characters, and I know he does have a fondness for the female ones like Ibuki. His work never fails to do them justice.

UDON's comics pretty much fill that void for me, fleshing out the characters and lore in a believable way and they do a GREAT job. It seems telling to me that one of their former artists, Arnold Tsang, became one of the lead artists for Overwatch - a game that captures that same sort of subtle but tasteful, genuine, and likable character development that they give to Street Fighter.

 

[spazchicken]

One aspect I'm sick of Ono's SF is how every stage has a crowd of people being super into it and there's a bunch of stupid goofy shit going on in the background like dancing bears. Bison's stage in V is amazing in terms of design and then you've got people chasing robots and all of this stupid quackery going on in the background. Karin's stage is fantastic but honestly no npc needs to be there but the butler. The npcs in the China, India, and Kanzuki beach stage make sense, but there's no more atmospheric stages like Ryu's in II, or the grass field/snow Japanese temple/Thaialnd stage like in Alpha 2. They exist in some form (like day/night version of the waterfall stage) but they're exceptions.

The thing I love most about the Fatal Fury and KoF games are the crowds going absolutely nuts over whats happening in front of them. Most of them are looking in the direction of the battle and it's exciting to see them so excited.

In SF most of the stages that feature people are lame. They don't seem impressed or interested in the fight. They're off doing their own thing. It doesn't make sense and detracts from how epic the battle is supposed to be.

 

[Cindi Mayweather]

The thing I love most about the Fatal Fury and KoF games are the crowds going absolutely nuts over whats happening in front of them. Most of them are looking in the direction of the battle and it's exciting to see them so excited.

In SF most of the stages that feature people are lame. They don't seem impressed or interested in the fight. They're off doing their own thing. It doesn't make sense and detracts from how epic the battle is supposed to be.

I also shocks me how they have day/night versions of stages but don't transition like in KOF. Imagine Laura's stage without npcs and round 2 it becomes nighttime and there's fireworks in the background, and then round 3 is a sunrise.

 

[JP_]

Merci beaucoup.



Ah, I'd recognize Omar's art style anywhere! So good.

Man, I love the UDON comics because the people there really seem to get that spirit which made me love Street Fighter. In the years since IV came out, it seems like Capcom haven't nearly produced as much supplemental artwork and such compared to the II/Alpha/III era, and it just feels like a waste considering what a unique and iconic cast they have to work with. It made me really happy to see Omar write up that post since I always felt he had a great grasp on the characters, and I know he does have a fondness for the female ones like Ibuki. His work never fails to do them justice.

UDON's comics pretty much fill that void for me, fleshing out the characters and lore in a believable way and they do a GREAT job. It seems telling to me that one of their former artists, Arnold Tsang, became one of the lead artists for Overwatch - a game that captures that same sort of subtle but tasteful, genuine, and likable character development that they give to Street Fighter.

Might have something to do with Capcom outsourcing a lot of the art nowadays (they seem to use the 3D sculpts to make the key art): http://www.eventhubs.com/news/2016/...-zangiefs-digital-artists-discuss-their-work/

Sad to see -- really does feel like it's lost some of the series' soul =/

 

[Sixfortyfive]

Already touched on this in my last post. Is Mika exclusively about sexuality and stuff? Nah. But the stuff that's there and surrounding it really makes those other aspects seem more insincere, and Street Fighter in general has a problem of the characters coming off that way nowadays (hollow or insincere or one-dimensional).

To be clear, we're talking about a character who, from her inception, had heart decals slapped on her tits and who slapped other people around with her ass, and who, in the latest game, also gives an earnest attempt at mimicking Dhalsim's fire-breathing techniques in story mode.

I also feel that the female characters in SF5 could stand to be more reserved, but this is a weird hill to take a stand on. Her characterization hasn't really changed at all.

 

[NinjaCoachZ]

Might have something to do with Capcom outsourcing a lot of the art nowadays (they seem to use the 3D sculpts to make the key art): http://www.eventhubs.com/news/2016/...-zangiefs-digital-artists-discuss-their-work/

Sad to see -- really does feel like it's lost some of the series' soul =/

I definitely get the impression that while Capcom milked the series for all it was worth in the 90s, the people behind it just feel like they were more passionate about it. The smaller staff, everything being done in-house, the rivalries with other companies, and of course all the artwork... Street Fighter used to feel like a labour of love.

Maybe it's just me being cynical but nowadays it feels like that spark and the creative voice the series once had is gone. Probably not helped that a lot of the significant people who contributed that voice to the series are no longer with Capcom, and the ones that are (e.g. Bengus) seem to be constrained pretty badly.

To be clear, we're talking about a character who, from her inception, had heart decals slapped on her tits and who slapped other people around with her ass, and who, in the latest game, also gives an earnest attempt at mimicking Dhalsim's fire-breathing techniques in story mode.

I also feel that the female characters in SF5 could stand to be more reserved, but this is a weird hill to take a stand on. Her characterization hasn't really changed at all.

Already covered all of this previously. This isn't some hill I'm dying on. It's one aspect of overall gripes I have with the franchise.