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[Kilau]

epic isn’t a huge publisher

Now it’s publishing? Epic has tried despite doing all you mentioned and more, but please let Sony go down that path, they like to follow dumb moves others have made.

 

[Physiognomonics]

It's hilarious that they raised this because the answer is one of the most decisive statements by Sony in favor of PC ports. Just setting themselves up for the biggest self-own:

https://www.sony.com/en/SonyInfo/IR/library/presen/er/pdf/24q2_qa.pdf

We have neither confirmed any such trend is underway

Even in that statement here they are gaslighting! It's a statement made by lawers. Read it carefully.

What they are really saying is that the trend of users opting for PCs is happening (they just haven't confirmed it) and they are saying that it's not a major risk. But they are not saying how they are defining "major", it could be anything those accountants want it to be.

 

[bitbydeath]

Lol no. Activision and EA ring a bell? Also MS now absolutely dwarfs Sony's game publishing branch and they'll still not try to go fully Xbox store exclusive for good reason....

Isn’t Activision mostly just a CoD studio now?

 

[HogIsland]

Even in that statement here they are gaslighting! It's a statement made by lawers. Read it carefully.

What they are really saying is that the trend of users opting for PCs is happening (they just haven't confirmed it) and they are saying that it's not a major risk. But they are not saying how they are defining "major", it could be anything those accountants want it to be.

yeah it's probably because they'd prefer if PC-based consoles replaced the need for them to make hardware.

 

[Mibu no ookami]

epic isn’t a huge publisher

People continue to push false comparisons. Obviously it isn't working out for Epic because they have to run into the minus to even get games on their storefront. They have no steady stream of exclusives.

Sony unlike Epic can provide a steady stream of exclusive games throughout the year AND they have more leverage for exclusive 3rd party titles than Epic does.

Just having a place to publish their GaaS games royalty-free will be massive for Sony, but I think it'll be telling that if Marathon launches on Steam the PC storefront/launcher probably isn't close to release, but I imagine games like Helldivers 3 will not be on Steam and probably a big reason we haven't seen GT7, and possibly Demon's Souls, or Bloodborne drop on Steam yet.

Isn’t Activision mostly just a CoD studio now?

Exactly. People like the idea that Microsoft is now a bigger publisher than Sony and yeah, they might publish more games than Sony does annually, but their games do not have the same level of impact.

 

[James Sawyer Ford]

Now it’s publishing? Epic has tried despite doing all you mentioned and more, but please let Sony go down that path, they like to follow dumb moves others have made.

Nothing dumb about it. It’s just adding their own store while still releasing on steam later.

If some gamers don’t want day 1 unless on steam, wait like they currently do

 

[Mibu no ookami]

Even in that statement here they are gaslighting! It's a statement made by lawers. Read it carefully.

What they are really saying is that the trend of users opting for PCs is happening (they just haven't confirmed it) and they are saying that it's not a major risk. But they are not saying how they are defining "major", it could be anything those accountants want it to be.

Hilarious when you set your own agenda and no matter what you hear, it reaffirms your conclusions.

Sony hasn't confirmed i.e. seen any such trend and we know that because their MAUs are still high. Any evidence of people migrating to PC would come in the form of decreased MAUs.

 

[Topher]

yeah it's probably because they'd prefer if PC-based consoles replaced the need for them to make hardware.

That doesn't make any sense. The entire point of PC ports, according to Sony, is lure PC gamers to PlayStation. Beyond that, why in the world would Sony want to abandon the PlayStation platform in favor of other devices? I think you are confusing Sony with Microsoft.

 

[BennyBlanco]

The way to maximize this concept is Day and Date on PS launcher only

Steam release 2 years later

You get the benefit of unified marketing, while enticing 100% of sales

I’ve been saying this since they started doing ports. We already know they’re making a launcher so this is probably what theyll do eventually. Would also get double dippers. Rockstar got my dumb ass to buy RDR2 on their barebones launcher.

 

[Mibu no ookami]

That doesn't make any sense. The entire point of PC ports, according to Sony, is lure PC gamers to PlayStation. Beyond that, why in the world would Sony want to abandon the PlayStation platform in favor of other devices? I think you are confusing Sony with Microsoft.

That is not what Sony said was the purpose of their PC Ports. That was a quick mention as to what could be a possible benefit, which shouldn't be confused with the entire point.



Their goal is to sell more copies of games, period. They didn't port Day's Gone to PC because they were hoping PC fans would buy a non-existent sequel.

 

[Topher]

That is not what Sony said was the purpose of their PC Ports. That was a quick mention as to what could be a possible benefit, which shouldn't be confused with the entire point.



Their goal is to sell more copies of games, period. They didn't port Day's Gone to PC because they were hoping PC fans would buy a non-existent sequel.

Not the "entire point", true, but it is a stated goal. The point I'm making is that this doesn't jive with Sony preferring "if PC-based consoles replaced the need for them to make hardware"

 

[HogIsland]

I’ve been saying this since they started doing ports. We already know they’re making a launcher so this is probably what theyll do eventually. Would also get double dippers. Rockstar got my dumb ass to buy RDR2 on their barebones launcher.

we don't actually know this. there were vague "references" in the insomniac leak which is content from 2022

Sony may be working on its own PC game launcher

A reference to "PlayStation PC launcher" was found in the PC version of Marvel's Spider-Man.

www.pcgamer.com

what they've actually done since is an in-game Playstation overlay, not a separate launcher app:

Sony’s new PlayStation PC overlay and shared Trophies arrive with Ghost of Tsushima

Sony continues to invest in PlayStation PC features.

www.theverge.com

 

[Fess]

Is that what matters?

Revenue selling on PSN = 100%

Revenue selling on Steam = 70%

End of story, losing a sale on PSN to sell on Steam is stupid. The day that PCs have physical media, with used resale and exchange, you come back here and say "but what about physical media"

Games in external launchers don’t sell nearly as much as on Steam.

 

[Mibu no ookami]

Not the "entire point", true, but it is a stated goal. The point I'm making is that this doesn't jive with Sony preferring "if PC-based consoles replaced the need for them to make hardware"

I think that point is largely confused.

There's value in selling on PC games without having to sell console hardware, but that doesn't mean console hardware is deprioritized or that Sony is even thinking about moving away from consoles.

PC releases are about dealing with the rise in game development costs. If Sony can sell their games on PC with no tangible impact to their console sales, why not? Especially Live Service games.

It's clear that Sony isn't just looking to get people to buy sequels on console though. If that were the case Spider-Man 2 and TLOU2 wouldn't hit PC until sequels were out on console first. The same with Horizon. Instead they're trying to make their IP as well known as possible and the more people who talk about PlayStation IP the more console they'll sell. That's why Hermen mentions transmedia projects like TLOU on HBO and Gran Turismo.

Console warriors have such a black and white view of business that they can't begin to see Sony's strategy or even Microsoft's. Or Why Nintendo doesn't have a similar one.

 

[Mibu no ookami]

Games in external launchers don’t sell nearly as much as on Steam.

Fortnite, Roblox, and Minecraft seem to do just fine...

 

[HogIsland]

Fortnite, Roblox, and Minecraft seem to do just fine...

minecraft and roblox are just apps. they don't require you to build a new digital library with a new store.

fortnite, similarly was just its own app until Epic decided to make it their whole storefront. and other software sold through egs is NOT doing fine. Alan Wake 2 was a financial failure largely because of EGS exclusivity.

 

[Mibu no ookami]

minecraft and roblox are just apps. they don't require you to build a new digital library with a new store.

fortnite, similarly was just its own app until Epic decided to make it their whole storefront. and other software sold through egs is NOT doing fine. Alan Wake 2 was a financial failure largely because of EGS exclusivity.

So you think individual games can be successful but more than one game can't? Make that make sense... where is the logic there?

Again, Epic isn't a big publisher. PlayStation Studios is.

How many games has Epic made in the last 4 years? How many has Sony made?

The bet Sony will be making on PC with a storefront is that they can generate more revenue selling more copies of software than the cut they're giving Steam and have more control over the environment in which they're selling.

Alan Wake 2 was on consoles too. Why are we only pointing to EGS as a reason for it not selling well?

Genshin Impact on PC is also through EGS isn't it?

 

[Topher]

I think that point is largely confused.

There's value in selling on PC games without having to sell console hardware, but that doesn't mean console hardware is deprioritized or that Sony is even thinking about moving away from consoles.

Exactly my point

 

[YeulEmeralda]

Does anyone honestly think that a PC gamer is going back to playstation for a few Sony exclusives?

 

[Danknugz]

That doesn't make any sense. The entire point of PC ports, according to Sony, is lure PC gamers to PlayStation. Beyond that, why in the world would Sony want to abandon the PlayStation platform in favor of other devices? I think you are confusing Sony with Microsoft.

imagine being lured to playstation from PC because of a spider-man game

 

[Fess]

Fortnite, Roblox, and Minecraft seem to do just fine...

Sony don’t have any game like that. And even those ginormous successes would most likely do even better on Steam.

 

[Mibu no ookami]

Sony don’t have any game like that. And even those ginormous successes would most likely do even better on Steam.

There are a lot of problems with your general thinking, I'll try to illustrate all of them

• Sony doesn't have any game like that presently, but it doesn't mean they won't in the future
• The games Sony currently have could also benefit from the lack of profit sharing
  • MLB The Show, Gran Turismo, Demon's Souls, Bloodborne, Destiny, Marathon, Helldivers, and future FromSoftware titles
• There's no real evidence to suggest that not being on Steam is in anyway a real hindrance to any of these games. In fact you could probably argue that they're all bigger than Steam itself. Steam is not a monolith and there is no real evidence to suggest that there is this massive contingent of Steam users holding out for steam access to play any of these games
  • You'd like look at CoD, but CoD was never biggest on PC, it was always bigger on console and still is
  • This again brings forth the reality that PC doesn't actually run through Steam and it's entirely possible to be successful outside of Steam and if you can be successful outside of Steam you're better off by doing so

If I'm Sony, I'd also make a deal with T2 to host GTA6 on PC with no revenue sharing required. That combined with their 1st party offerings and some exclusivity deals would certainly place it on a larger footing than EGS.

 

[Fess]

There are a lot of problems with your general thinking, I'll try to illustrate all of them

• Sony doesn't have any game like that presently, but it doesn't mean they won't in the future
• The games Sony currently have could also benefit from the lack of profit sharing
  • MLB The Show, Gran Turismo, Demon's Souls, Bloodborne, Destiny, Marathon, Helldivers, and future FromSoftware titles
• There's no real evidence to suggest that not being on Steam is in anyway a real hindrance to any of these games. In fact you could probably argue that they're all bigger than Steam itself. Steam is not a monolith and there is no real evidence to suggest that there is this massive contingent of Steam users holding out for steam access to play any of these games
  • You'd like look at CoD, but CoD was never biggest on PC, it was always bigger on console and still is
  • This again brings forth the reality that PC doesn't actually run through Steam and it's entirely possible to be successful outside of Steam and if you can be successful outside of Steam you're better off by doing so

If I'm Sony, I'd also make a deal with T2 to host GTA6 on PC with no revenue sharing required. That combined with their 1st party offerings and some exclusivity deals would certainly place it on a larger footing than EGS.

There are many examples why it’s hurting sales to not be on Steam and other launchers are bringing their games to Steam now for that reason.

And if they would go day 1 on a PS launcher it would be the same scenario as now on Steam with little hype from being a late release. There are many examples of that too.

As for a reason to wait for a Steam release. I’m booting my PC in the living room into Steam’s Big Picture mode, makes it a Steam console basically, only use a controller. So it’s not like I even notice that other launchers exist in my daily life on that PC. And if I buy a game in another launcher, which is extremely rare, I have to exit Steam and pull out a mouse/keyboard and it instantly break the console experience. With some fiddling I can add other launcher games into Steam, then use the controller again, but it’s not perfect with no playtime shown or achievements on non-Steam games. As it is I basically just go outside Steam to add Gamepass games a couple times per year.

 

[Felessan]

Sony don’t have any game like that. And even those ginormous successes would most likely do even better on Steam.

Delusional PC fans....
Fortnite is the size of Steam, why it would want to share revenue, what latter can offer to Epic?

There are many examples why it’s hurting sales to not be on Steam and other launchers are bringing their games to Steam now for that reason.

Yeah, Mihoyo is so sad it's not on Steam

 

[Xyphie]

The only successful non-Steam launchers are the ones with top-tier GaaS games (Minecraft, Roblox, Riot, Battle.net etc). I could see something like Destiny 3 doing fine on its own, but trying to launch Wolverine or whatever on their own store is just a futile exercise.

 

[Fess]

Delusional PC fans....
Fortnite is the size of Steam, why it would want to share revenue, what latter can offer to Epic?


Yeah, Mihoyo is so sad it's not on Steam

And Roblox has almost twice the mau. Nobody cares, unless you’re heavily mp focused and already big enough to be your own brand like those giants you need to be on Steam. It’s just how it is. As said, when you boot into Steam you don’t even know when games on other launchers are out unless you look it up on the internet. How do think it’ll be if SteamOS devices gets popular?

 

[Felessan]

And Roblox has almost twice the mau. Nobody cares, unless you’re heavily mp focused and already big enough to be your own brand like those giants you need to be on Steam. It’s just how it is.

The majority of PC market are heavily mp focused. Fairytales about SP games market be huge and dominant on PC are you know... fairytales.

How do think it’ll be if SteamOS devices gets popular?

IF. A very big if.
Steamdeck maybe popular amongst some niche PC enthusiasts, but it's nowhere near a mass-market device.

 

[Fess]

Does anyone honestly think that a PC gamer is going back to playstation for a few Sony exclusives?

I think it’s an absurd idea. Could possibly work for GTAVI. Not for Ragnarök, Forbidden West, Spider-Man 2. But Sony should have those numbers now, the late port strategy on those games has gone full circle now.

 

[Gaiff]

The majority of PC market are heavily mp focused. Fairytales about SP games market be huge and dominant on PC are you know... fairytales.


IF. A very big if.
Steamdeck maybe popular amongst some niche PC enthusiasts, but it's nowhere near a mass-market device.

MP is dominant everywhere, troll.

 

[Zathalus]

The majority of PC market are heavily mp focused. Fairytales about SP games market be huge and dominant on PC are you know... fairytales.

Everything is multiplayer focused, just check the monthly most popular games on PS5 for example. That doesn’t mean that single player can’t thrive on PC either, as dozens of games CCU counts on Steam over the past few years have proven.

 

[Hudo]

Does anyone honestly think that a PC gamer is going back to playstation for a few Sony exclusives?

Not even Sony think that, hence the reason why they port shit over. I can guarantee you that they've done extensive number crunching, market analysis and projection on this before they launched this strategy. They wouldn't do this if it meant a negative impact on their bottom line.

I know that armchair experts on GAF and on the internet in general like to think that they know better. But the reality is that shit isn't done because one retard (Hermen) had this idea while sniffing Aloy's armpits one day. That shit gets pitched, discussed and analyzed before it gains tangible traction.

 

[Mibu no ookami]

There are many examples why it’s hurting sales to not be on Steam and other launchers are bringing their games to Steam now for that reason.

Note that Minecraft, Roblox, and Fortnite are not bringing their games to Steam. Nor is Genshin Impact or Valorant.

Seems they're happy enough dominating the PC market outside of Steam.

What you're referring to is publishers realizing it's pretty difficult to manage a platform, but Sony isn't just a publisher, it's a platform holder.

A top publisher and a top platform holder... they're uniquely qualified to do a PC storefront successfully.

And if they would go day 1 on a PS launcher it would be the same scenario as now on Steam with little hype from being a late release. There are many examples of that too.

Not sure what you're referring to here, in your scenario is it day 1 or is it a late release... Are you referring to GTA6? Not sure there would be little hype for GTA6 on PC.

As for a reason to wait for a Steam release. I’m booting my PC in the living room into Steam’s Big Picture mode, makes it a Steam console basically, only use a controller. So it’s not like I even notice that other launchers exist in my daily life on that PC. And if I buy a game in another launcher, which is extremely rare, I have to exit Steam and pull out a mouse/keyboard and it instantly break the console experience. With some fiddling I can add other launcher games into Steam, then use the controller again, but it’s not perfect with no playtime shown or achievements on non-Steam games. As it is I basically just go outside Steam to add Gamepass games a couple times per year.

I'm sorry for your loss...

 

[Fess]

The majority of PC market are heavily mp focused. Fairytales about SP games market be huge and dominant on PC are you know... fairytales.


IF. A very big if.
Steamdeck maybe popular amongst some niche PC enthusiasts, but it's nowhere near a mass-market device.

It’s the same on console, the majority of all gaming is heavily mp focused. But there are still lots of single player games doing well on PC. If they are on Steam…..
There is a reason why Ubi, EA, MS all started releasing games on Steam after being exclusive to their own launchers.

 

[Rawbutt Jellybean]

Note that Minecraft, Roblox, and Fortnite are not bringing their games to Steam. Nor is Genshin Impact or Valorant.

Seems they're happy enough dominating the PC market outside of Steam.

What you're referring to is publishers realizing it's pretty difficult to manage a platform, but Sony isn't just a publisher, it's a platform holder.

A top publisher and a top platform holder... they're uniquely qualified to do a PC storefront successfully.

Even if Sony stumbled into a megahit like Fortnite or Minecraft and built a launcher for it, their SP games would still be better off on Steam and it's gigantic userbase.

 

[Felessan]

MP is dominant everywhere, troll.

It was not my idea to brush mp away if you would have spend 2 min to read topic

Everything is multiplayer focused, just check the monthly most popular games on PS5 for example. That doesn’t mean that single player can’t thrive on PC either, as dozens of games CCU counts on Steam over the past few years have proven.

Yeah, yeah, 400k CCU is already a very high plank for SP game on Steam and thats roughly 4m sales on PC, good result but nothing to brag about by console standards.

It’s the same on console, the majority of all gaming is heavily mp focused. But there are still lots of single player games doing well on PC. If they are on Steam…..
There is a reason why Ubi, EA, MS all started releasing games on Steam after being exclusive to their own launchers.

The point is that you brushed away heavy mp games. But mp games ARE the majority and many of them, including most popular ones, skipping Steam altogether. Making whole notional that Steam somehow pivotal for success of games on PC looks strange when 2/3 of PC market is off Stram and this part of market doing just fine.

 

[ArtHands]

Does anyone honestly think that a PC gamer is going back to playstation for a few Sony exclusives?

The most hilarious part is they think Sony can use their '3rd party relationships' as a selling point to make people use their hypothetical launcher, when practically every 3rd party console games, including Sony's exclusive titles like Stellar Blade, FF7 Rebirth or Rise of Ronin, are all heading to Steam.

 

[Mibu no ookami]

Even if Sony stumbled into a megahit like Fortnite or Minecraft and built a launcher for it, their SP games would still be better off on Steam and it's gigantic userbase.

When Sony puts out a tv show like The Last of Us or a movie like Gran Turismo, people start pouring in to buy it across platforms. This is true whether it's on Steam or not.

Sony recognizes that they're ideally positioned and don't necessarily need Steam. A lot of PC fans aren't happy about this, but that's not really Sony's problem or anyone else's.

You overrate how successful these single player games perform on Steam in the first place.

It's not going to be an overnight success, but yes, over time, they'll erode Steam's userbase and market position. Which isn't even to say Sony's going to become the market leader in PC or anything close to it, but even if they're able to catch 10-20% of the market, that will be a major expansion of their business even as it relates to peripheral sales. Another thing that companies like EA and Activision never had.

 

[Gaiff]

It was not my idea to brush mp away if you would have spend 2 min to read topic


Yeah, yeah, 400k CCU is already a very high plank for SP game on Steam and thats roughly 4m sales on PC, good result but nothing to brag about by console standards.

As stupid as stupid gets.

 

[kaizenkko]

Epic is (or was) trying so fucking hard to get more space in PC, but I don't think they are even close to Steam numbers (besides Fortnite).

I doubt Sony will try to use a proprietary store front on PC. And if they try, it's obvious that they will fail. Some people here are just delusional. lol

 

[Rawbutt Jellybean]

When Sony puts out a tv show like The Last of Us or a movie like Gran Turismo, people start pouring in to buy it across platforms. This is true whether it's on Steam or not.

They wouldn't if it was a Sony PC launcher. They'd go search to see if it was on Steam and if it wasn't they'd move on.

Sony recognizes that they're ideally positioned and don't necessarily need Steam. A lot of PC fans aren't happy about this, but that's not really Sony's problem or anyone else's.

They need Steam if they want to sell SP games on PC, which they obviously do.

You overrate how successful these single player games perform on Steam in the first place.

Because they aren't day and date, aren't advertised, and are often in poor shape.

It's not going to be an overnight success, but yes, over time, they'll erode Steam's userbase and market position. Which isn't even to say Sony's going to become the market leader in PC or anything close to it, but even if they're able to catch 10-20% of the market, that will be a major expansion of their business even as it relates to peripheral sales. Another thing that companies like EA and Activision never had.

You say this like it's a certainty it'll happen. They don't even have a game you can build a launcher around and have never had a game like that. Then they have to hope the people playing that megahit actually want to play the rest of their library. Thinking they'd "erode Steam's userbase" with Spiderman and Horizon is silly.

 

[Mibu no ookami]

They wouldn't if it was a Sony PC launcher. They'd go search to see if it was on Steam and if it wasn't they'd move on.

They need Steam if they want to sell SP games on PC, which they obviously do.

Because they aren't day and date, aren't advertised, and are often in poor shape.

You say this like it's a certainty it'll happen. They don't even have a game you can build a launcher around and have never had a game like that. Then they have to hope the people playing that megahit actually want to play the rest of their library. Thinking they'd "erode Steam's userbase" with Spiderman and Horizon is silly.

Sony is putting out more and more live service games. They already have a massive hit with Helldivers 2. They'll have even more as we move forward.

I'm willing to bet that the vast majority of people playing PC games globally aren't steam fanboys and are willing to play even single player games outside of Steam.

Nice strawman there. Spider-Man and Horizon obviously wouldn't erode Steam, but a multitude of 3rd party publishers putting their titles on Steam could. Steam isn't nearly as big as many on GAF think it is. There is this constant refrain of PC PC PC, but Steam isn't PC. When comparing revenues of PC gaming and PS5 for example, people are lumping in revenue from outside of Steam.

And I'm not trying to discredit Steam here at all. It's obviously a large marketplace and a key place for long term sales, but I don't see it as this impregnable fortress. We've seen marketplaces rise and fall since the beginning of history.

It's like saying Facebook Marketplace or Etsy will fail because eBay exists.

 

[Zathalus]

Yeah, yeah, 400k CCU is already a very high plank for SP game on Steam and thats roughly 4m sales on PC, good result but nothing to brag about by console standards.

400k CCU would likely mean far higher then 4 million in sales. Horizon Zero Dawn had a CCU of 56k and passed 3.3 million units sold on PC 2 years ago. Or Manor Lords, which peaked at 173k CCU last year and just now passed 3 million sold.

 

[Rawbutt Jellybean]

Sony is putting out more and more live service games. They already have a massive hit with Helldivers 2. They'll have even more as we move forward.

They are cancelling* more and more live service games. Helldivers 2 already down to under daily max 70k ccu on PC a year after release. It was a financial success but it doesn't have mass pull.

I'm willing to bet that the vast majority of people playing PC games globally aren't steam fanboys and are willing to play even single player games outside of Steam.

That'd be a horrible bet.

Nice strawman there. Spider-Man and Horizon obviously wouldn't erode Steam, but a multitude of 3rd party publishers putting their titles on Steam could. Steam isn't nearly as big as many on GAF think it is. There is this constant refrain of PC PC PC, but Steam isn't PC. When comparing revenues of PC gaming and PS5 for example, people are lumping in revenue from outside of Steam.

Not a strawman.

The only comparison that matters on PC is MP vs SP. MP is occasionally viable in a separate launcher but not SP.

And I'm not trying to discredit Steam here at all. It's obviously a large marketplace and a key place for long term sales, but I don't see it as this impregnable fortress. We've seen marketplaces rise and fall since the beginning of history.

It's on top and growing.

It's like saying Facebook Marketplace or Etsy will fail because eBay exists.

Maybe Aloy can start knitting for Etsy if Sony wants a storefront on PC.