NemesisPrime
Banned
Not sure if I ever will touch another DA. After DA2 and EA I am done with it.
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The Future Of Dragon Age PAX Panel (More Dragon Age 3 Information) [Updated]
- Thread starter Nirolak
- Start date
GrandHarrier
Member
Massa said:
We need to just start ignoring them and focus on the points raised in the OP.
Last Hearth
Member
I just have one question for the people on this thread who's hates Bioware as if Bioware stole their girlfriend and killed their dog, what are the awesome RPGs that you are playing that's much better and has none of the flaws, because I really would like to play these vastly superior games.
lastplayed
Member
Actually, in DA2 they did steal my girlfriend and killed my dog.
But they came back.
HP_Wuvcraft
Banned
Ysiadmihi said:
As good as they used to, or as good as they were when there wasn't anything on the market like them?
Fimbulvetr
Member
HP_Wuvcraft said:
There weren't any other isometric RPGs in the past?
Now what am I gonna play after BG2?
ShockingAlberto
Member
Does it matter? Dragon Age 2 isn't a good game to me or the many others that think so.Last Hearth said:
Stamping your foot and going "WELL START LISTING THINGS TO PROVE TO ME THAT YOU'RE CAPABLE OF JUDGING GAMES" is really goddamn childish.
WanderingWind
Mecklemore Is My Favorite Wrapper
Fimbulvetr said:There weren't any other isometric RPGs in the past?
Now what am I gonna play after BG2?
Dragon Age 3!
Demoncarnotaur
Member
Wow, it really doesn't sound like they are going to take their time with this. DA2 was a huge disappointment. They need to revamp, again. Its hard to say, but this seems like its not the best news for DAO fans..
To be clear, I dont mind DA2's concepts and changes, just how they were implemented.
To be clear, I dont mind DA2's concepts and changes, just how they were implemented.
HP_Wuvcraft
Banned
ShockingAlberto said:
Why is it childish to ask for substance to an opinion? This is a public discussion forum.
Fimbulvetr
Member
WanderingWind said:
Laidlaw: "Just as planned."
lastplayed
Member
I just hope there are more hilarious bugs like this...
HadesGigas
Member
If anything it'll be interesting to see how few of these ideas and promises actually end up in the game that comes out.
It also doesn't really sound like they plan on making an actual ending to Hawke or any of his companion's stories as DLC. Which would be bad enough I guess, but considering the way the game just ends with no conclusion... now you probably have to wait for DA3 to see what happens to them, hopefully with cameos handled better than the DAO ones in DA2...
It also doesn't really sound like they plan on making an actual ending to Hawke or any of his companion's stories as DLC. Which would be bad enough I guess, but considering the way the game just ends with no conclusion... now you probably have to wait for DA3 to see what happens to them, hopefully with cameos handled better than the DAO ones in DA2...
bigboss370
Member
the need to improve the graphics. somehow DA2 was overall worse in that department than DA1, at least on PC, wasn't it?
universalmind
Member
This game is going to be so bad but people will buy the shit out of it anyway.
lastplayed
Member
I dunno about consoles, but the textures in DA2 PC are sharper than DA:O at least.
HadesGigas
Member
bigboss370 said:
They tried to fake having large crowds by the crowds looking like characters out of an N64 game. Most of the game was pretty solid graphically (though of course VERY repetitive).
Last Hearth said:
Isn't it a part of the problem that Bioware was still making some of those awesome RPGs like, let's say, Dragon Age: Origins, then fucked it up by making DA2 which they so heavily defend as a step in the right direction for the series? But I like how you worded your statement so as to preemptively invalidate any one list someone might produce by setting some standards that will allow you to criticize anyone's decisions by simple means of comparison.
Better games than DA2? Not hard to find I'd say. Better RPG's? few, but there are some imo: TW2, Deus EX, Fallout NV, Divinity II, Skyrim seems like a contender right now, there might be others I have not played yet (I'd even add Alpha Protocol, which I ave played, but understandably one might consider it not such a good game). As for flawless games? Yeah, good luck with that...
I don't remember a single comment stating: "Hey Bioware, gee, I guess your games suck because now I am playing all these vastly superior games". It's been more like: "I don't like where Bioware is headed, least of all when they seem to be abandoning the potential that their own series had for some reasons I don't understand/I dislike". Is it unfair criticism?
Could it also be that there are few RPG devs right now (especially big teams) so every one of these titles lost to marketing strategies and focus groups hurts more and more? But yes, Bioware stole my girlfriend, that is why I am Oh so mad!
It's a little early to be talking about DA3 isn't it? One of DA2's biggest flaws was that it seemed like priority number one was to finish the game up as fast as possible. If we get 2+ years of development AND BW going back to what made DA1 great, then I might give this series another chance.
bigboss370 said:
I'm pretty sure it was worse on both. I mean I guess the character models in DA2 were a bit more detailed than DA:O, but not by much. The environments were worse.
But NOBODY is asking about the real change that needs to happen in DA3. If I am in a wide open outdoor area with no trees or any overlay of any kind, if I have a group of giant spiders rappel down out of thin air, I'ma kidnap one of the bioware developers, tie that fucker down, and drop a barrel full of spiders (poisonous ones at that) on the motherfucker.
HadesGigas
Member
JDAWGZZZ said:
Unless it's gonna be a launch window title for new Sony/MS consoles, it seems like early 2013 is the latest it'd come out.
truly101 said:
It's mentioned in the OP that they are going to do away with "another wave!!!". We'll see how that actually goes...
HadesGigas said:
I don't even care about the wave combat. I don't want to be an a damn mountaintop and be attacked by spiders that literally rappel down out of thin air. It reeks of awful lazy programming. If I see that shit, I'll know DA3 was designed to be a cash grab like DA2 was.
lastplayed
Member
Maxed out DA:O
I think they both look good, but DA:O has a softer, more natural look about it.
I think they both look good, but DA:O has a softer, more natural look about it.
AlimNassor
Banned
DAII gets a lot of hate on Gaf. It really does. Dragon Age wasn't even that amazing. I see less hate for IW on gaf, at least people are willing to consider it a decent game. But with DAII, nope. With DAII it's apparently the worst game ever made. DAII was just another bad sequel out of hundreds of terrible sequels to good games.
Stallion Free
Cock Encumbered
DAO had the worst fucking depth of field I have ever seen and it couldn't be toggled off.
I think they reduced poly counts on characters in DA2 which is why in spite of some of the neater DX11 features, the game looked noticeably worse than DA1. Not to mention the heavily recycled backgrounds. Whether the art direction is worse is debatable though.
Honestly, the reason for my dislike for DA2 is purely due to the completely uninteresting story, the uninspired level design, and the huge waste of time that was Act 1. Act 1 sapped any enthusiasm I had for the game and curb stomped it to oblivion. Which is why I have yet to play the game past the beginning of Act 2. I just can't force myself to do it, and I've forced myself to beat some bad games in the past (Shinobi and Spider-Man the Movie on the PS2 among them).
Honestly, the reason for my dislike for DA2 is purely due to the completely uninteresting story, the uninspired level design, and the huge waste of time that was Act 1. Act 1 sapped any enthusiasm I had for the game and curb stomped it to oblivion. Which is why I have yet to play the game past the beginning of Act 2. I just can't force myself to do it, and I've forced myself to beat some bad games in the past (Shinobi and Spider-Man the Movie on the PS2 among them).
AlimNassor said:
I don't think it can be understated just how lazy and uninspired DA2 is. Its not so much a bad sequel, lots of sequels choose directions that just don't work for the franchise in question, the game becomes a trainwreck because of it. I'd be a lot more forgiving on DA2 if that was the case. What seals DA2 for me is that it was obviously rushed to capitalize on an IP to boost 4th quarter earnings. Its the type of shit you expect out of Activision, not Bioware.
WanderingWind
Mecklemore Is My Favorite Wrapper
DA2 = DMC2
Okay? Clear? We good here? Great. Dragon Age 2 fucking sucked.
Okay? Clear? We good here? Great. Dragon Age 2 fucking sucked.
Last Hearth
Member
The reason I ask for other games is that without it we don't have a basis for comparison.
Old games are not a good barometer, because the market has changed, the technology has changed, etc. The only realistic way to compare games is against other games that released around the same time, because that's what the developer of the game is competing against, his goal is to make a game that beats the competition.
To fail to see these, and criticize the game, is to compare the game against the standard of some abstract "ideal game", in which case of course the game is going to look like an abysmal failure. Because no game can live up to that standard.
And if you're going to tell me that Alpha Protocol is a better game than DA2, then I'm not sure what to say, except that I would have loved to have seen a thread on GAF about Alpha Protocol that puts that game through the grinder like DA2 was put through.
Old games are not a good barometer, because the market has changed, the technology has changed, etc. The only realistic way to compare games is against other games that released around the same time, because that's what the developer of the game is competing against, his goal is to make a game that beats the competition.
To fail to see these, and criticize the game, is to compare the game against the standard of some abstract "ideal game", in which case of course the game is going to look like an abysmal failure. Because no game can live up to that standard.
And if you're going to tell me that Alpha Protocol is a better game than DA2, then I'm not sure what to say, except that I would have loved to have seen a thread on GAF about Alpha Protocol that puts that game through the grinder like DA2 was put through.
That, and I think Ion Storm has the excuse of being new to games designed with consoles in mind, and overestimated how much streamlining was actually necessary. Bioware got off to a great start with Knights of the Old Republic on Xbox and nailed it again with Mass Effect and even the console port of Dragon Age it seems, so they don't have as much excuse.truly101 said:
I seriously hope that's also an indicator of how good DA3 will be in comparison.WanderingWind said:
AlimNassor
Banned
truly101 said:
I dunno. I've seen worse sequels. Like Fallout Brotherhood of Steel. Now that was downright bad. DAII to me just seems like another rushed cash-in sequel. *shrugs*
Well, that sounds all well and good, but I think I'll wait for DA3 to hit 20 bucks before I pick it up. If it is roundly panned I might pick it up at all.
As for Origin stories or a set character, I personally would like multiple main protagonists - meaning multiple viewpoints ala Suikoden 3. I would think that would be a pretty sweet idea since I loved the concept in Suikoden 3 and would work quite well in a DA game, especially if they are making the game setting huge.
As for Origin stories or a set character, I personally would like multiple main protagonists - meaning multiple viewpoints ala Suikoden 3. I would think that would be a pretty sweet idea since I loved the concept in Suikoden 3 and would work quite well in a DA game, especially if they are making the game setting huge.
SatelliteOfLove
Member
Last Hearth said:
This wouldn't be a cheap fishing for mudslinging targets as a defense, would it? Nawwww...
Bioware's handling and output of DA and their PR team's spin of it is a trainwreck; it is night and day compared to the ME team. This shows no sign of abating, so DA3 is only a source of mirth for me for the trainwreck factor. Horseshit kills goodwill. Horseshit and average games kill it faster.
HP_Wuvcraft
Banned
truly101 said:
It was a rushed game, no doubt about it. Should they have taken more time? Sure. Is it lame that video games are now reliant on first quarter sales? Yes. But when people start talking about the financial aspect as if they have some sort of insight into that business' earnings and losses, that's what gets my goat.
Complistic
Member
K.Jack said:
Those things don't matter when half of your game is covered with the same texture.
Yes the texture is "sharp", but the texturing is lazy. And this is just one example. The art style change was done to cut corners. Like most every other design decision in the game.
Last Hearth said:
Sure we do. It is a sequel after all and one that was released not too long after the first one. What you are implying is that games like Uncharted 3, Batman AC and Dark Souls couldn't be compared against their predecessors either then and only to games released close to them. If you are going for the "it can only be compared to games in the same genre, i.e. party based real time action/strategy RPGs" well then, what can I say? DA2 can be compared to very few things then, really. If your "basis" is only "good games", well DA2 doesn't do well at all. Define "old games" then. Is DA:O old? Is TW1 old? I guess the ones I named are acceptable. Also, you can't really expect people to throw overboard certain expectations when the series was touted the "spiritual successor to BG". I understand they are flying away from that pretty swiftly.
Is anyone really comparing DA2 to some abstract ideal of a game? Care to point me there?
The game is criticized within itself, especially when some expectations were created around it (being a sequel of a successful game) and where many of the flaws mentioned are pretty jarring for a studio with a history such as Bioware's. People are not saying DA2 isn't Crysis 3 and it is a fallacy to imply there is some unattainable standard used to judge this and only this game.
Well I did, and did not, but there is a difference. I say both games should be judged differently, and I guess is what many people do. I believe DA2 is put through the grinder much so than other games for a reason, one which not only involves the mere quality of the final product, but the mentality and discourse around it, the way that Bioware pushed preorders and cut them out just before any real reviews hit, the one where the release date wasn't set in benefit of the game, the one in which Bioware's representatives expressed their opinions and failed to admit the game's shortcomings for a very long time. Are these unique to this game? Maybe not, but certainly they can't all be judged the same.
I get you are trying to establish a false objective line of measurement for the game, in order to invalidate the much more emotional response, but I tell you, there is an emotional response for a reason that won't necessarily accommodate to the idea that because there are other games that suck more than DA2, the backlash for the game is unjustified.
HP_Wuvcraft
Banned
inky said:
Not really comparing it to an abstraction as much as condemning it for not being the ideal BioWare game, more specifically the sequel everyone seemed to want or something.
There's plenty of that going around.
And it's nothing new, really.
Bioware sets the bar -> people like it
Bioware lowers the bar -> people hate it
Bioware fumbles to fix what it broke while keeping it the same for the vocal minority -> well no one knows yet because technically they've never made a third game in a series (expacs don't count)
This is surprising how?
Bioware lowers the bar -> people hate it
Bioware fumbles to fix what it broke while keeping it the same for the vocal minority -> well no one knows yet because technically they've never made a third game in a series (expacs don't count)
This is surprising how?
LiquidSolid
Member
If you really weren't interested in Bioware anymore, you probably would never have even opened this thread. You know, because you're not interested in DA3. But you have, so clearly there is something for you in Bioware's future. Complaining.Vaporak said:
Of the two games, I can comfortably say I prefer DA2. Why? Because I don't think either game were particularly great. I'd probably rate them both around 6 or 7 out of 10, but DA2 didn't have mind numbingly boring dungeons so that's the one I lean towards.
Legacy, on the other hand, is the best thing that's come out of the series so far. If they really do build off of that for future DLC and DA3, I'll be very happy.