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[Topher]

artifacts and upscaling

some games still running below 1080p native is ridiculous

Ray tracing (mainly the global illumination part) makes a huge difference in the look of a world, but the consoles are not ready to use it yet without destroying the overall look of a game, but devs push it and you end up with a blurry, smeary, half real time half baked solutions that look worse

Jedi Survivor is a good example of this. They could have made Survivor using the exact same tech as Jedi Order and it would have looked better and at 60fps.

 

[Moriarty1889]

Wrong priorities, wasted resources, bloated engine etc...

This 100%!

 

[Fbh]

Diminishing returns.
Devs are using new tech that makes the games look 20% better but needs like 100% more power than the true and test approach of previous generations. So we end up with games where the visual improvements are usually offset by awful performance and resolution unless you are on a high end PC. .

You'll see graphics whores being like "last gen they had to use smoke and mirrors to make stuff look good but now it's doable for real"...and it's like yeah, but the smoke and mirrors still looked great and didn't murder the performance.

Also, stronger tech doesn't eliminate the need for good art direction. Arkham Knight is a good example of a game that looks great because of a strong art direction and not really because it has particularly amazing character models, geometry, textures, etc.

Jedi Survivor is a good example of this. They could have made Survivor using the exact same tech as Jedi Order and it would have looked better and at 60fps.

Yup.
In fact they vastly improved the resolution and performance (from under 720p to slightly under 1080p and 40-60fps to 50-60fps) on console by simply removing RT from the performance mode. And in most scenes/locations the visual difference from no RT is minimal.

Even with the improvements though, I think the game doesn't look good enough to justify the poor IQ.

 

[Euler007]

Playing Avowed currently. Floored by the graphics. On Series S, no less.

Not sure if serious. Killzone Shadow Falls put these screens to shame on a PS4 Pro.

 

[vaibhavpisal]

Not sure if serious. Killzone Shadow Falls put these screens to shame on a PS4 Pro.

Lumen ray tracing. No pop in.

Performance mode on Series S.

I think its quiet a bit more advanced title than that.

 

[Black_Stride]

I primarily play on PC.

In the last two years alone my RTX4080 has been eating.

• Final Fantasy 16
• Rogue City
• Alan Wake 2
• CyberPunk Overdrive/Phantom Liberty
• Avatar
• Hellblade 2 - Its become my "Techdemo" for good graphics whenever my console only family visits.
• Outlaws - Yes Star Wars Outlaws.
• Silent Hill 2
• Avowed
• Black Myth Wukong
• FF7 Rebirth
• Indiana Jones
• Even VeilGuard is actually a good looking game.

These doom and gloom grifters really need to shut the fuck up.
And GAF users need to start using some critical thinking and not fall for the rage bait.
These videos are making money off you by keeping you angry at something that isnt actually there.

 

[justiceiro]

Funny you used Arkham as example when that games performed horribly at launch on amd cards. Last gen suffered a lot with bullshots and broken games at launch. Actually that was the generation where broken games at launch started. Some blamed on the Apu, but was more likely developers underestimating how resources were necessary to get some stuff running.

 

[T4keD0wN]

This is not even close to the truth. Person from the video cherrypicks heavily stylized games with extremely dated graphics and good artstyle, despite that the only thing from the video that doesnt look aged is Metro Exodus.

I primarily play on PC.

In the last two years alone my RTX4080 has been eating.

• Final Fantasy 16
• Rogue City
• Alan Wake 2
• CyberPunk Overdrive/Phantom Liberty
• Avatar
• Hellblade 2 - Its become my "Techdemo" for good graphics whenever my console only family visits.
• Outlaws - Yes Star Wars Outlaws.
• Silent Hill 2
• Avowed
• Black Myth Wukong
• FF7 Rebirth
• Indiana Jones
• Even VeilGuard is actually a good looking game.

These doom and gloom grifters really need to shut the fuck up.
And GAF users need to start using some critical thinking and not fall for the rage bait.
These videos are making money off you by keeping you angry at something that isnt actually there.

I think this thread is purely about console experience because none of this holds true if you have even a low tier gpu like 2080 and run games without dynamic resolution on at least high settings.

 

[rodrigolfp]

I think this thread is purely about console experience

So maybe don't play on consoles.

 

[K' Dash]

Not sure if serious. Killzone Shadow Falls put these screens to shame on a PS4 Pro.

you might want to pop in that piece of shit game, it's a fucking PS4 launch game. Black Flag looked miles better than KSF.

 

[RCX]

Its true. Something like Gotham Knight represents the "more than good enough" standard.

So much energy is expended on tech and art that looks amazing in slow/static scenes but once its all in motion it doesn't make a real difference.

I wish the focus would be on high framerates and new gameplay mechanics. Sadly its easier to sell the notion of "shiner and prettier".

 

[T4keD0wN]

So maybe don't play on consoles.

Nah, playing there is fine, but dont cry about visuals and say games look bad if you dont play them at max settings and high enough resolution with good pixel density, that is not valid criticism.

Its like me putting graphics on low in some game just to say it looks bad, id have no credibility to speak about that since i wouldnt know how the game looks. Same as driving car in the first gear and complaining it goes slow.

 

[mayham2199]

Not sure what games you are playing but the games I'm playing look better than old gen stuff.

 

[analog_future]

Is UE5 crud my friends? upscale low res stuff? blue hair devs? Why? I drooled when I saw UE3 first. Maaaany AAA games now like bad movies special fx something is weerd

best graphics are like the old stuff remastered tlou 2 tiny bit better demons souls RDR2 PC Arkham Knight X

This guy's an idiot and anyone who thinks Arkham Knight looks better than the top modern AAA games is an idiot too.

Arkham Knight maxed out @ 6K on my PC:

Looks pretty good. Fantastic for it's time.


Now RoboCop:

Or Immortals of Aveum:

Or Suicide Squad:

Or Final Fantasy XVI:

Or Silent Hill 2:

Or Control:

Or Star Wars Outlaws:

..... or virtually endless other AAA that shit all over Arkham Knight in virtually every way.


So sick of this stupid fucking "argument" from people who have no clue what they're talking about.

 

[rodrigolfp]

playing there is fine

dont cry

Pick one. The thread is about avoiding the second one.

 

[mayham2199]

I wish the focus would be on high framerates and new gameplay mechanics. Sadly its easier to sell the notion of "shiner and prettier".

The focus is on high framerates. Where the hell have you been? We've never had so many games with a 60 FPS option on console in my life.

As far as new gameplay mechanics. Well that's easier said than done. It's not like game devs don't try but coming up with new gameplay mechanics isn't something you just need to focus on and then you can do it. It's hard and even if you do come up with something new is it going to

 

[T4keD0wN]

Pick one. The thread is about the avoid the second one.

I dont understand what youre trying to say.

 

[RCX]

The focus is on high framerates. Where the hell have you been? We've never had so many games with a 60 FPS option on console in my life.

As far as new gameplay mechanics. Well that's easier said than done. It's not like game devs don't try but coming up with new gameplay mechanics isn't something you just need to focus on and then you can do it. It's hard and even if you do come up with something new is it going to

I don't mean 60fps. I mean 120 as an expected norm.

"Feel" is harder to market than "pretty"

 

[yamaci17]

most of the problems are caused by ps5 and xbox series x not having a proper upscaling solution. when my friend gave his PS5 to me for a while, I did a lot of comparisons. almost all nextgen games looked MUCH better at 1440p/dlss performance than they did on PS5 and its performance modes. sometimes even the quality modes actually

FSR 3 just cannot handle anything below 1440p properly and leads to frustration for many. thankfully FSR 4 fixed this. and I believe ps5 pro will eventually get fsr 4 or maybe similar image quality with PSSR

then people will hopefully stop complaining about "PS3" resolutions

 

[adamsapple]

So maybe don't play on consoles.

 

[rodrigolfp]

I dont understand what youre trying to say.

All the games Black_Stride mentioned looks at least a little better in general than PS4 games. The problem with some of those is the console versions with crap IQ, as per OP (upscale low res stuff?). So how is playing there fine??

 

[TintoConCasera]

I think I prefer the look of older games myself. Blocky geometry and no volumetric effects means that I get a clear look at what's going on. Plus older games had to be more creative which often means more unique or just plain better looking games. Fuck realism.

 

[GymWolf]

Arkham Knight and GTA V visuals holding up to modern standards.....

Clickbait nonsense video. Art is subjective, tech isn`t.

Surprised they used gta5 instead of ac unity, you still have to cherry pick that shit out of it to make it look as good as modern games but it would be definitely simpler than freaking gta5

 

[Kotaro]

DEI hires

 

[Wildebeest]

I think we can all look at the messy visual spew that games are now and agree that 3d graphics were a mistake all along.

 

[TintoConCasera]

I think we can all look at the messy visual spew that games are now and agree that 3d graphics were a mistake all along.

Nah old 3D games look amazing. I think the turning point was when bloom got popular, it's all been downhill ever since.

 

[rodrigolfp]

Then enjoy "upscale low res".

 

[adamsapple]

Then enjoy "upscale low res".

 

[rodrigolfp]

Optimized low res games are not optimized enough while also having worse frame rates.

 

[Black_Stride]

This guy's an idiot and anyone who thinks Arkham Knight looks better than the top modern AAA games is an idiot too.

Arkham Knight maxed out @ 6K on my PC:

Looks pretty good. Fantastic for it's time.


Now RoboCop:

Or Immortals of Aveum:

Or Suicide Squad:

Or Final Fantasy XVI:

Or Silent Hill 2:

Or Control:

Or Star Wars Outlaws:

..... or virtually endless other AAA that shit all over Arkham Knight in virtually every way.


So sick of this stupid fucking "argument" from people who have no clue what they're talking about.

And someone on here was telling me Arkham Knight looks better than Suicide Squad.
Say what you will about the game, but its not lacking in graphics and animations.
And most certainly in performance.
Even on Console Suicide Squad is a practically locked 60.



EDIT: Found him:

Batman Arkham Knight. Decade old game that look and run better than their modern sequel.

Miss me with that shit!!!!




P.S Poignant GIF by the way.
Cuz people also say Tekken 7 looks better than Tekken 8.
Nostalgia goggles are strong with some people.

 

[yamaci17]

P.S Poignant GIF by the way.
Cuz people also say Tekken 7 looks better than Tekken 8.
Nostalgia goggles are strong with some people.

rdr 2 hit me like a truck. going back to that game... after star wars outlaws. outlaws just looks MUCH better in actual gameplay, in terms of how graphics made me feel. you look at comparisons and people be like "it looks worse and runs worse!"

some nextgen games have so much detail and geometry that they actually look horrible on youtube. while most older games have simpler geometry, textures and graphics that low bitrate helps them. it is quite ironic actually

 

[T4keD0wN]

All the games Black_Stride mentioned looks at least a little better in general than PS4 games. The problem with some of those is the console versions with crap IQ, as per OP (upscale low res stuff?). So how is playing there fine??

Well playing there is fine because not everyone who plays there is complaining about the graphics.

But then playing there and also complaining about the graphics at the same time isnt because thats an opinion on graphics from someone who didnt use the highest graphics setting and used compromised ones carries little weight.

 

[Pandawan]

I noticed it too. Some games from 10 years ago still look better than some modern. Dunno why. Modern devs just lazy i guess. Or just don't have enough passion
2016

2023

2007 (dunno if this remastered, still indicative)

 

[rodrigolfp]

Well playing there is fine because not everyone who plays there is complaining about the graphics.

Peoples like OP are thinking it is not fine.

 

[Madflavor]

This guy's an idiot and anyone who thinks Arkham Knight looks better than the top modern AAA games is an idiot too.

Arkham Knight maxed out @ 6K on my PC:

Looks pretty good. Fantastic for it's time.


Now RoboCop:

Or Immortals of Aveum:

Or Suicide Squad:

Or Final Fantasy XVI:

Or Silent Hill 2:

Or Control:

Or Star Wars Outlaws:

..... or virtually endless other AAA that shit all over Arkham Knight in virtually every way.


So sick of this stupid fucking "argument" from people who have no clue what they're talking about.

These are all shots taken under the best of circumstances at 4k/6k on whatever Batcave Computer you're running on. Most gamers can't afford the luxury of 4k PC gaming, especially with GPUs getting more expensive. I think the point people are making is that Arkham Knight managed to do more with the technology they had at the time, than a lot of games these days, and it looks better overall. Anyone running on a high end PC can take cherry picked shots to show how graphically pretty a game is. But whether or not the game still looks that good in motion is another thing.

You posted Star Wars Outlaws. Most of the time the game doesn't look nearly that good, especially on consoles.

 

[Nankatsu]

Welcome to the AI gen.

 

[viveks86]

best graphics are like the old stuff remastered tlou 2 tiny bit better demons souls RDR2 PC Arkham Knight X

Let's break this down shall we?
tlou 2 - Studio hasn't released a game this generation yet
demons souls - Studio hasn't released a game since 2020
RDR2 - Studio hasn't released a game this generation yet
Arkham Knight - Studio went to shit

On top of that, Santa Monica and GG have only released cross gen titles.

And there are plenty of stunning games this generation that others have already listed in this thread with screenshots. Can't wait for GTA, DS2, Yotei and Intergalactic to come out so we can stop with these rose tinted looks at the past. There is nothing wrong with the technology. We just need to wait a bit longer.

 

[TintoConCasera]

We just need to wait a bit longer.

PS5 came out in November 2020. At this rate you'll be waiting till next-gen.

 

[bender]

Dragged down by the platforms without FSR or DLSS.

 

[viveks86]

PS5 came out in November 2020. At this rate you'll be waiting till next-gen.

Unfortunately, yeah! But that's not because graphics aren't getting better. It's because the ones leading the way are taking longer to make their games.

 

[rodrigolfp]

Most gamers can't afford the luxury of 4k PC gaming, especially with GPUs getting more expensive. I think the point people are making is that Arkham Knight managed to do more with the technology they had at the time, than a lot of games these days, and it looks better overall.

A potato PC can run Batman AK better than the PS4.

 

[Killer8]

I primarily play on PC.

In the last two years alone my RTX4080 has been eating.

• Final Fantasy 16
• Rogue City
• Alan Wake 2
• CyberPunk Overdrive/Phantom Liberty
• Avatar
• Hellblade 2 - Its become my "Techdemo" for good graphics whenever my console only family visits.
• Outlaws - Yes Star Wars Outlaws.
• Silent Hill 2
• Avowed
• Black Myth Wukong
• FF7 Rebirth
• Indiana Jones
• Even VeilGuard is actually a good looking game.

These doom and gloom grifters really need to shut the fuck up.
And GAF users need to start using some critical thinking and not fall for the rage bait.
These videos are making money off you by keeping you angry at something that isnt actually there.

The other point that is constantly getting lost is that many of these games are lower budget. Rogue City is a AA game and others like Silent Hill 2 and Avowed were made on modest budgets.

Unreal Engine 5 is the great equalizer and has allowed even no-name studios to make games that look better than even last gen's best. How is that not progress?

 

[yamaci17]

These are all shots taken under the best of circumstances at 4k/6k on whatever Batcave Computer you're running on. Most gamers can't afford the luxury of 4k PC gaming, especially with GPUs getting more expensive. I think the point people are making is that Arkham Knight managed to do more with the technology they had at the time, than a lot of games these days, and it looks better overall. Anyone running on a high end PC can take cherry picked shots to show how graphically pretty a game is. But whether or not the game still looks that good in motion is another thing.

You posted Star Wars Outlaws. Most of the time the game doesn't look nearly that good, especially on consoles.

you need 4K if you have a 4K TV...

jump from ps3 to ps4 was big. jump from ps4 to ps5 is not as big.
jump from 720p to 1080p was not that big. yet jump from 1080p to 4K is bigger

maybe jump to 4K was the actual mistake. ps6 should and will probably fix this (with high quality upscaling)

there's also the problem of remasters and ps4 pro versions of games. most people compare ps5 only games to ps4 games that are enhanced to run on PS5. practically the best versions of PS4 games. take last of us part 2 for example. it looks incredibly BLURRY on PS4 to a point it actually ruins the image quality... ONLY, of course, if you've seen the best version of it. I'm serious. go play that game at 4k/30 or 1440p/60 on PS5, then go play with actual ps4 at 1080p/30 FPS

it is why it is actually rather unfair to compare ps5 enhanced ps4 games to ps5 only games. native ps5 games should be compared to native ps4 games. for example compare how star wars outlaws holds up compared to how rdr 2 held up on base PS4. let me tell you, it just looks horrible on PS4 if you've seen rdr 2 on a ps4 pro or xbox one x. even if you didn't, if you compare them side by side, both look amazingly blurry to a point you will the notice in what ways outlaws actually looks better

with that in mind, arkham knight on ps4 doesn't really look THAT great at 1080p. it doesn't use TAA, so it is not blurry to begin with. so this gives it a massive advantage over modern games that rely on TAA. but without TAA, game shimmers all the time. why is this being overlooked?

 

[bad guy]

I've said it years ago; The bottleneck isn't really the hardware anymore, its the developers brain.

 

[rodrigolfp]

I've said it years ago; The bottleneck isn't really the hardware anymore, its the developers brain.

It's both.

 

[SlimySnake]

Jedi Survivor is a good example of this. They could have made Survivor using the exact same tech as Jedi Order and it would have looked better and at 60fps.

They did remove ray tracing for the 60 fps mode after launch so technically the RTGI isnt the reason for its issues.

I think the consoles are simply not able to do 60 fps while pushing graphics. Sony and MS need to have standards for resolutions. if it dips below 1080p, you cannot ship a 60 fps mode. But they allowed them to dip to 720p and some even below that.

Survivor looks amazing in the 30 fps mode. But when 75% of the PS5 owners are playing the watered down, low res disaster, people get upset. Not realizing the very games they are praising from the PS4 and PS3 era were running at 30 fps.

 

[viveks86]

The other point that is constantly getting lost is that many of these games are lower budget. Rogue City is a AA game and others like Silent Hill 2 and Avowed were made on modest budgets.

Unreal Engine 5 is the great equalizer and has allowed even no-name studios to make games that look better than even last gen's best. How is that not progress?

Agreed! Add Clair Obscur to that.

And if people really want to understand progress, they should at least compare games from the same studio over time. So bizarre to see Forspoken being compared against Uncharted or Crysis. I don't even...

Even if you compare Monster Hunter, which is widely panned for looking ugly, you will see that it has gotten better than its predecessor.

The only exception to this would be Suicide Squad. But even there, the game exceeds Arkham Knight in cutscenes. They just ruined the world and characters with awful creative direction.

 

[GymWolf]

This guy's an idiot and anyone who thinks Arkham Knight looks better than the top modern AAA games is an idiot too.

Arkham Knight maxed out @ 6K on my PC:

Looks pretty good. Fantastic for it's time.


Now RoboCop:

Or Immortals of Aveum:

Or Suicide Squad:

Or Final Fantasy XVI:

Or Silent Hill 2:

Or Control:

Or Star Wars Outlaws:

..... or virtually endless other AAA that shit all over Arkham Knight in virtually every way.


So sick of this stupid fucking "argument" from people who have no clue what they're talking about.

I primarily play on PC.

In the last two years alone my RTX4080 has been eating.

• Final Fantasy 16
• Rogue City
• Alan Wake 2
• CyberPunk Overdrive/Phantom Liberty
• Avatar
• Hellblade 2 - Its become my "Techdemo" for good graphics whenever my console only family visits.
• Outlaws - Yes Star Wars Outlaws.
• Silent Hill 2
• Avowed
• Black Myth Wukong
• FF7 Rebirth
• Indiana Jones
• Even VeilGuard is actually a good looking game.

These doom and gloom grifters really need to shut the fuck up.
And GAF users need to start using some critical thinking and not fall for the rage bait.
These videos are making money off you by keeping you angry at something that isnt actually there.

Some gaffers live in an alternative reality.

 

[Zacfoldor]

Optimized low res games are not optimized enough while also having worse frame rates.

Stutter and hitches keeping people up at night. Has UE5 been a huge win on PC too?

UE5 is the best thing to ever happen to console gaming because of what it is doing to PC gaming. Why do UE5 games seem work so much worse on PC than PS5? Time for a new graphics API gents. Perhaps when we all get rid of our current gaming rigs and get new ARM rigs we will be eating well. Good thing the prices are so reasonable. I'm excited to see the price on the new ASUS Xbox handheld PC. Knowing what Asus charges for other premium products, I think this will really be an eye opener for a lot of people when it comes to Xboxes partnership program and how they are able to afford to run steam on the next xbox. It's an exciting time for the industry!

 

[yogaflame]

I notice that most 3rd party multiplatform games has this problem. But exclusives 1st and 2nd party games like for example from, PlayStation, looks great.