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[Topher]

They did remove ray tracing for the 60 fps mode after launch so technically the RTGI isnt the reason for its issues.

I think the consoles are simply not able to do 60 fps while pushing graphics. Sony and MS need to have standards for resolutions. if it dips below 1080p, you cannot ship a 60 fps mode. But they allowed them to dip to 720p and some even below that.

Survivor looks amazing in the 30 fps mode. But when 75% of the PS5 owners are playing the watered down, low res disaster, people get upset. Not realizing the very games they are praising from the PS4 and PS3 era were running at 30 fps.

I only played the RT version so I can't speak first hand out about it, but removing RT increased the base resolution and that improved image quality in performance mode according to DF. The fact that the game fell to 720p highlights why RT should not have been included in the performance mode. Jedi Order was patched for this gen and had even better resolution at 60fps. Personally, I'd rather have clean visuals with less effects thrown in for better performance and image quality.

 

[ChorizoPicozo]

what if.... it is your are eyes that are getting shittier?

 

[SlimySnake]

These are all shots taken under the best of circumstances at 4k/6k on whatever Batcave Computer you're running on. Most gamers can't afford the luxury of 4k PC gaming, especially with GPUs getting more expensive. I think the point people are making is that Arkham Knight managed to do more with the technology they had at the time, than a lot of games these days, and it looks better overall. Anyone running on a high end PC can take cherry picked shots to show how graphically pretty a game is. But whether or not the game still looks that good in motion is another thing.

You posted Star Wars Outlaws. Most of the time the game doesn't look nearly that good, especially on consoles.

Arkham ran at 1080p 30 fps. If you try to play it on a 4k tv today, it looks like garbage with all the shimmering and aliasing that the 1080p sets were able to hide.

The problem today is that 75% of consoler gamers expect 60 fps modes to look next gen, but you cant expect $399 consoles (digital PS5 is literally $399) to play these next gen games at higher resolutions for their 4k tvs and 60 fps.

Most UE5 games, Snowdrop games, and even third party stuff like Starfield and FF16 look just fine on consoles at 1440p 30 fps. But people play those games at 720p and then complain about not getting the best experience.

I mostly game on PC because i too want 60 fps, but ive played a ton of games at 30 fps on consoles and they all look remarkable compared to Batman AK and other games last gen. People just need to stop this 60 fps madness.

Here are some of my own screenshots and gifs on consoles, mixed in with some gifs from PS5 reviews by Digital Foundry which despite being compressed showcase a generational leap over what this guy is talking about. The key is that aside from the baseball gif, everything else was taken from the 30 fps modes which are much higher res with PC equivalent high settings instead of the medium to low shit you get in 60 fps modes.

 

[RyRy93]

The obsession with RT and the fact that Naughty Dog, CDPR, Rockstar and SMS haven’t made anything to try and push this generation of hardware.

 

[rodrigolfp]

Stutter and hitches keeping people up at night. Has UE5 been a huge win on PC too?

UE5 is the best thing to ever happen to console gaming because of what it is doing to PC gaming. Why do UE5 games seem work so much worse on PC than PS5? Time for a new graphics API gents. Perhaps when we all get rid of our current gaming rigs and get new ARM rigs we will be eating well. Good thing the prices are so reasonable. I'm excited to see the price on the new ASUS Xbox handheld PC. Knowing what Asus charges for other premium products, I think this will really be an eye opener for a lot of people when it comes to Xboxes partnership program and how they are able to afford to run steam on the next xbox. It's an exciting time for the industry!

Stutters and hitches are almost all patched already and also happen on consoles. Almost every single UE5 game work far better on PC now vs PS5.

 

[SlimySnake]

Agreed! Add Clair Obscur to that.

And if people really want to understand progress, they should at least compare games from the same studio over time. So bizarre to see Forspoken being compared against Uncharted or Crysis. I don't even...

Even if you compare Monster Hunter, which is widely panned for looking ugly, you will see that it has gotten better than its predecessor.

The only exception to this would be Suicide Squad. But even there, the game exceeds Arkham Knight in cutscenes. They just ruined the world and characters with awful creative direction.

Yeah, the cutscenes in suicide squad are amazing.

But Forspoken is actually a rare exception in that it actually does look worse than its predecessor in many ways. FF15 wasnt perfect, but at least it looked good. Forspoken looks ugly as fuck.

 

[SlimySnake]

Some gaffers live in an alternative reality.

the youtuber in the OP literally brought up Bulletstorm (the ps3 version) to show how it looks better than modern games lol.

 

[GymWolf]

the youtuber in the OP literally brought up Bulletstorm (the ps3 version) to show how it looks better than modern games lol.

Even more of a trash video than i thought.

 

[dgrdsv]

Can't think of any games from this gen which look "worse" than on the previous gen.
When making such comparisons it is important to select games from the same team / studio instead of comparing a AAAA old release with a AA new one.
In such comparison literally all games from this gen would look better than the games from previous gen.
The differences which you may see as them looking "worse" would stem from changes to the art direction.

 

[TintoConCasera]

Can't think of any games from this gen which look "worse" than on the previous gen.
When making such comparisons it is important to select games from the same team / studio

Monster Hunter.

 

[bender]

Even more of a trash video than i thought.

Bulletstorm is the pinnacle. Now, you festering asshole either make with one sweet and sloppy apology or I will fuck up your life.

 

[GymWolf]

Bulletstorm is the pinnacle. Now, you festering asshole either make with one sweet and sloppy apology or I will fuck up your life.

 

[bender]

Look, sushi dick, you aren't bender

 

[SlimySnake]

Can't think of any games from this gen which look "worse" than on the previous gen.

It's not just that they look worse, the youtuber states that they also run WORSE.

Graphics In Gaming Today Look and Run Worse​

he literally chose Max Payne 3 and Bulletstorm both of which struggled to run at 30 fps on PS360. Nowadays, 60 fps is the norm and games shipping with only 30 fps modes are the exception.

 

[ShadyAcshuns]

Too many cooks in the kitchen.

 

[rofif]

Arkham Knight and GTA V visuals holding up to modern standards.....

Clickbait nonsense video. Art is subjective, tech isn`t.

Yeah I agree. Art aside, dragons dogma 2 wipes the floor with most ps4 games. Ff16 also. Even stellar blade at some points. It’s like a refined ps4 game that might actually be impossible on ps4.
Or Hogwarts? Compare the ports and it’s clear

 

[viveks86]

But Forspoken is actually a rare exception in that it actually does look worse than its predecessor in many ways. FF15 wasnt perfect, but at least it looked good. Forspoken looks ugly as fuck.

Good point! I wonder what the real factors were. It was a different art director, I believe. The lighting actually looked worse

 

[rofif]

Arkham ran at 1080p 30 fps. If you try to play it on a 4k tv today, it looks like garbage with all the shimmering and aliasing that the 1080p sets were able to hide.

The problem today is that 75% of consoler gamers expect 60 fps modes to look next gen, but you cant expect $399 consoles (digital PS5 is literally $399) to play these next gen games at higher resolutions for their 4k tvs and 60 fps.

Most UE5 games, Snowdrop games, and even third party stuff like Starfield and FF16 look just fine on consoles at 1440p 30 fps. But people play those games at 720p and then complain about not getting the best experience.

I mostly game on PC because i too want 60 fps, but ive played a ton of games at 30 fps on consoles and they all look remarkable compared to Batman AK and other games last gen. People just need to stop this 60 fps madness.

Here are some of my own screenshots and gifs on consoles, mixed in with some gifs from PS5 reviews by Digital Foundry which despite being compressed showcase a generational leap over what this guy is talking about. The key is that aside from the baseball gif, everything else was taken from the 30 fps modes which are much higher res with PC equivalent high settings instead of the medium to low shit you get in 60 fps modes.

Good man.
I will also add, setting reactions to dd2 graphics , some people can’t differentiate tech from art. Dd2 lighting is one of best in it’s class

 

[TintoConCasera]

Bulletstorm is the pinnacle

Indeed, most fun and funny FPS game back then. Even more so since all we were getting where military shooters on modern warfare settings.

 

[rofif]

Yeah, the cutscenes in suicide squad are amazing.

But Forspoken is actually a rare exception in that it actually does look worse than its predecessor in many ways. FF15 wasnt perfect, but at least it looked good. Forspoken looks ugly as fuck.

I don’t even think that’s true. Forspoken Carries the same tech and looks great at some points. Ff xv got worse lods, vegetation etc.
I suggests actually looking closer at forspoken. Looks great with hdr.
That said ff xv is immortal and looks better overall but tech in forspoken is better.
I am really surprised booting it on pro in graphics 40fps mode. And remember it was patched with better ao.
Honestly it felt like one of first this Gen games pushing ps5 on release.
I won’t share any screenshots…

 

[Wolzard]

One of the reasons that probably doesn’t get talked about enough, is that a lot of the best developers and engineers leave the gaming industry as it is a pretty shit place to work for. Why stick it out when your job security is low, working conditions suck, pay is mediocre, and you might get stalked online by fanboys? Just go do development work for a bank or other safe/boring job. Games will never lack for developers due to it being a passion industry, but most of the really good ones will eventually up and leave.

A graphic programmer can earn 3x more working with AI. Those who went to Nvidia became millionaires. Those who stayed in the gaming industry were laid off.

 

[Black_Stride]

I noticed it too. ome games from 10 years ago still look better than some modern. Dunno why. Modern devs just lazy i guess. Or just don't have enough passion
2016

2023

2007 (dunno if this remastered, still indicative)

Pick one of the worst graphical games of this gen, to go up against one of the best?????

 

[Pandawan]

Pick one of the worst graphical games of this gen, to go up against one of the best?????

So what? Seven years apart. Different generations. It is very indicative indeed. The best PS4 game still looks better than the average PS5 game.

A PS4 game looks better than a PS5 game. Just think about it. Imagine PS1 games compared to PS2 games. Even the best PS1 games compared to the average PS2 games. Imagine PS2 games compared to PS3 games. Imagine PS3 games compared to PS4 games.

And now we have current-gen PS5 games that look worse than the PS4 previous ones. Much worse. Not just a little. Much worse.

 

[kiphalfton]

Did you play this through a potato?

Brb quotes three sentence long post.
Brb manages to miss part about playing on XSS.

Bro...

 

[darrylgorn]

Can't say I would agree, really.

The only game that genuinely looks bad to me is MHW. And truthfully, it's only because the game lacks colour.

 

[Black_Stride]

So what? Seven years apart. Different generations. It is very indicative indeed. The best PS4 game still looks better than the average PS5 game.

A PS4 game looks better than a PS5 game. Just think about it. Imagine PS1 games compared to PS2 games. Even the best PS1 games compared to the average PS2 games. Imagine PS2 games compared to PS3 games. Imagine PS3 games compared to PS4 games.

And now we have current-gen PS5 games that look worse than the PS4 previous ones. Much worse. Not just a little. Much worse.

Forspoken most certainly is NOT the average PS5 game when Unreal Engine 5 is the most popular engine right now.
And I can show you some AA games that match or exceed Uncharteds basically blank check level budget. (This gives them the money to burn through outsourcing and hiring talent)

^^Might as well have been an Indie game.

^^Small studio without the same resources as Naughty Dog.





And to counter your point one of the best looking games of 2013 was The Last of Us......a PS3 game
Halo 4 was an absolute stunner of game even after the XB1/PS4s came out

 

[Rhazer Fusion]

Lack of talent and priorities.

DEI hires

Caring more for profits than quality.

Hardly anything is exclusive anymore so I doubt porting the games everywhere is truly taking advantage of hardware capabilities. No coincidence Nintendo first party games usually look and perform the best on Switch compared to other offerings on the same console.

 

[Hawk The Slayer]

The graphics are advance but just companies deciding to make their characters disgusting and ugly.

Still great looking current gen games like Stellar Blade, Rebirth, RE4 Remake, Space Marine 2, Wukong, Tekken 8 etc.

 

[Pandawan]

Forspoken most certainly is NOT the average PS5 game when Unreal Engine 5 is the most popular engine right now.
And I can show you some AA games that match or exceed Uncharteds basically blank check level budget. (This gives them the money to burn through outsourcing and hiring talent)

^^Might as well have been an Indie game.

^^Small studio without the same resources as Naughty Dog.





And to counter your point one of the best looking games of 2013 was The Last of Us......a PS3 game
Halo 4 was an absolute stunner of game even after the XB1/PS4s came out

You're going too far.

I compared AAA game with AAA game. AAA 2023 game looks worse than AAA 2016 game.

This whole argument is completely pointless.

Of course there are some modern games that look on par with Unch 4, some maybe even better.

But the point of my screenshots was to show how some modern games graphics struggle to even reach the level of some old games, which is insane for me, because 7 year difference is a lot and graphics should evolve so much, but in such examples it looks like it only devolved.

 

[Schmendrick]

Yeah I agree. Art aside, dragons dogma 2 wipes the floor with most ps4 games. Ff16 also. Even stellar blade at some points. It’s like a refined ps4 game that might actually be impossible on ps4.
Or Hogwarts? Compare the ports and it’s clear

Not the examples I'd have chosen but yeah.

 

[Deerock71]

Diminishing returns comes to mind. It's not that the games look worse, it's that you've journeyed further down the uncanny valley.

 

[Bojji]

The obsession with RT and the fact that Naughty Dog, CDPR, Rockstar and SMS haven’t made anything to try and push this generation of hardware.

CDPR already did that with CP in 2020 on PC and then again with PT update.

Rockstar will show big leap in GTA6 with RTGI and high quality assets, maybe even this year!

 

[Buggy Loop]

Good man.
I will also add, setting reactions to dd2 graphics , some people can’t differentiate tech from art. Dd2 lighting is one of best in it’s class

Fucking hell I thought you were about to say “I will also add Forspoken” there for a second.

 

[Black_Stride]

Well, damn, you compared Forespoken and Indie games.

You're going too far.

Production of Forspoken Reportedly Cost Over $100 Million. Forspoken is AAA game.
I googled Uncharted 4 budget: "The budget for Uncharted 4: A Thief's End was estimated to be around $100 million"

In short, your arguments are your personal delusion, which for some reason you really want to prove. Phh. Forespoken and indie games he compared. I tell him about the 7 year difference, how a game from 2023 looks worse than a 2016 game, he compares the games of 2013 and 2012 and brings this as an argument.

You'll probably start to rub in that 100 million 10 years ago was a different amount of money or some other nonsense, or will argue about Unch budget, which I won't comment on. It doesnt matter.

I compared AAA game with AAA game. AAA 2023 game looks worse than AAA 2016 game.

This whole argument is completely pointless.

Preempting the argument doesnt negate it.
Uncharted 4s budget was astronomical for the time.
Naughty Dogs technical know how, Sony backing and Outsourcing connections make them a completely different league.
Forspoken is closer to a AA game than it is to a AAA game.

If you want to bring Uncharted 4 as a baseline, then you would have to use a game with access to similar resources.

And again Forspoken is NOT the average looking AAA PS5 game, most people agree that it isnt a particularly good looking game....hell it launched with broken Ambient Occlusion
No one ever even claims its the average AAA experience except you, yet you say i have personal delusions?

 

[TintoConCasera]

Dd2 lighting is one of best in it’s class

It sure is. Fighting against a spell casting enemy inside a cave or outside at night was pure spectacle.

 

[rofif]

Fucking hell I thought you were about to say “I will also add Forspoken” there for a second.

I would never do that....

Spoiler: but look at it!!! (I only have base ps5 shots sadly)

Copy link
...

 

[Pandawan]

Preempting the argument doesnt negate it.
Uncharted 4s budget was astronomical for the time.
Naughty Dogs technical know how, Sony backing and Outsourcing connections make them a completely different league.
Forspoken is closer to a AA game than it is to a AAA game.

If you want to bring Uncharted 4 as a baseline, then you would have to use a game with access to similar resources.

And again Forspoken is NOT the average looking AAA PS5 game, most people agree that it isnt a particularly good looking game....hell it launched with broken Ambient Occlusion
No one ever even claims its the average AAA experience except you, yet you say i have personal delusions?

WTF is this garbage i even read. You set some standards yourself. What is considered AAA, what is closer to AA, you bring some "most people agree" wich is again you trying to prove you personal delusion as fact (who are this most people? you and the voices in your head? there are millions of people with different takes on this matter).

And you sit here and tell me your nonsense and demand me to stick to this your standarts what to consider what and to compare to what. Just insane. Some schizo has pestered my screenshots and wants me to prove to him that they meet his delusional standards of comparison.

 

[Little Chicken]

I've been pretty happy with Avowed's visuals, especially at night

 

[Achelexus]

not enough DEI

 

[HeWhoWalks]

This guy's an idiot and anyone who thinks Arkham Knight looks better than the top modern AAA games is an idiot too.

Arkham Knight maxed out @ 6K on my PC:





Looks pretty good. Fantastic for it's time.


Now RoboCop:


Or Immortals of Aveum:




Or Suicide Squad:




Or Final Fantasy XVI:




Or Silent Hill 2:


Or Control:




Or Star Wars Outlaws:






..... or virtually endless other AAA that shit all over Arkham Knight in virtually every way.


So sick of this stupid fucking "argument" from people who have no clue what they're talking about.

P R E A C H !

Unless you live in LaLa Land, graphics have continued to get better and better. And no, raytracing doesn't make games look worse. That comes from someone who either can't truly appreciate it (lacking the hardware) or, again, in LaLa Land.

 

[analog_future]

Arkham ran at 1080p 30 fps. If you try to play it on a 4k tv today, it looks like garbage with all the shimmering and aliasing that the 1080p sets were able to hide.

The problem today is that 75% of consoler gamers expect 60 fps modes to look next gen, but you cant expect $399 consoles (digital PS5 is literally $399) to play these next gen games at higher resolutions for their 4k tvs and 60 fps.

Most UE5 games, Snowdrop games, and even third party stuff like Starfield and FF16 look just fine on consoles at 1440p 30 fps. But people play those games at 720p and then complain about not getting the best experience.

I mostly game on PC because i too want 60 fps, but ive played a ton of games at 30 fps on consoles and they all look remarkable compared to Batman AK and other games last gen. People just need to stop this 60 fps madness.

Here are some of my own screenshots and gifs on consoles, mixed in with some gifs from PS5 reviews by Digital Foundry which despite being compressed showcase a generational leap over what this guy is talking about. The key is that aside from the baseball gif, everything else was taken from the 30 fps modes which are much higher res with PC equivalent high settings instead of the medium to low shit you get in 60 fps modes.

Yep, pretty much this.

Too many gamers demand:

• Consoles at $499 or less
• 4k visuals
• 60 fps gameplay
• next-gen lighting/shadows/physics/atmospheric effects/textures/LOD/etc...

This is a generalization, but just to bring Arkham Knight from 1080p/30 to 4k/60, without changing anything else, requires a machine that's 8x more powerful than the PS4 that the game released on.



It's not reasonable to expect all of that from a single console generation and never has been. The $699 PS5 Pro gets closer but even that's not going to quite get there.

 

[RoboFu]

One of the reasons that probably doesn’t get talked about enough, is that a lot of the best developers and engineers leave the gaming industry as it is a pretty shit place to work for. Why stick it out when your job security is low, working conditions suck, pay is mediocre, and you might get stalked online by fanboys? Just go do development work for a bank or other safe/boring job. Games will never lack for developers due to it being a passion industry, but most of the really good ones will eventually up and leave.

Some of them are old and retiring. There is a lack of many real developers left that fully understand what's going on not just knowing how to use unreal's movement template

 

[mayham2199]

I don't mean 60fps. I mean 120 as an expected norm.

"Feel" is harder to market than "pretty"

It would just be a waste of time to do 120 when most people cant even use that option.

 

[Scrawnton]

This is exactly what I thought when I played Uncharted: Legacy of Thieves collection on my pc. While I wasn't a huge fan of the game, the graphics from this 2016 release are actually easily keeping up with most currently released games.

Those games are extremely linear set piece designed games that operate more as eye candy than any type of interaction or player pushback. I'm not defending modern graphics at all, but Naughty Dog games only look that good because they're sterile as hell.

 

[Fbh]

Yep, pretty much this.

Too many gamers demand:

• Consoles at $499 or less
• 4k visuals
• 60 fps gameplay
• next-gen lighting/shadows/physics/atmospheric effects/textures/LOD/etc...

This is a generalization, but just to bring Arkham Knight from 1080p/30 to 4k/60, without changing anything else, requires a machine that's 8x more powerful than the PS4 that the game released on.



It's not reasonable to expect all of that from a single console generation and never has been. The $699 PS5 Pro gets closer but even that's not going to quite get there.

I think this is sort of true.
I DO want 60fps and decent resolutions (ideally 1440p or more) as a standard but I also don't expect next-gen lighting/shadows/physics/atmospheric effects/textures/LOD/etc.
But I do think some people are unrealistic with their expectations. Current gen consoles could offer a more consistent visual improvement over last gen if everyone was willing to go back to 900-1080p at 30fps as a standard. Expecting a 5 years old $499 machine to provide a massive visual leap while increasing the resolution and doubling the framerate of last gen is unrealistic.

That said, I do believe in diminishing returns and these days I vastly preffer performance and IQ over "graphics".
Visuals like Arkham Knight at, say 1440-1800p and 60fps are vastly preferable to me vs "next gen" graphics at 1080p 30fps.

 

[FukuDaruma]

Guy drooling over Batman Arkham Knight, a game that ran like shit and was an unfixable stutterfest for YEARS...

I always liked Ass Creed Unity, but similar case: also ran like dogshit, and even 10 years later still has unsolved issues, even with modding.

 

[SlimySnake]

I think this is sort of true.
I DO want 60fps and decent resolutions (ideally 1440p or more) as a standard but I also don't expect next-gen lighting/shadows/physics/atmospheric effects/textures/LOD/etc.
But I do think some people are unrealistic with their expectations. Current gen consoles could offer a more consistent visual improvement over last gen if everyone was willing to go back to 900-1080p at 30fps as a standard. Expecting a 5 years old $499 machine to provide a massive visual leap while increasing the resolution and doubling the framerate of last gen is unrealistic.

I think in that case Sony first party games are for you. They are higher resolution, mostly 1440p 60 fps, and still look great. I think spiderman 2 is the only game that drops to 1080p in its performance mode, everyone else is 1440p. Looks like DS2 and Ghosts 2 will be the same. Intergallactic was also 4k 60 fps so it will likely be 1440p 60 fps or higher when it does come out.

Not for me though, the way I see it, games only get an upgrade once every 7-8 years, and if that upgrade is basically 1440p 60 fps of the same last gen graphics then that $499 i spent on the new console no longer feels like a good value.

BTW, Suicide Squad also did what you're asking, 1440p 60 fps on consoles, and people couldnt care less. It actually has its moments and looks rather good by last gen standards but people wanted more.

 

[adamsapple]

BTW, Suicide Squad also did what you're asking, 1440p 60 fps on consoles, and people couldnt care less. It actually has its moments and looks rather good by last gen standards but people wanted more.

Graphics were probably near the bottom of the game's problems. Hell, the graphical presentation of the game was well praised from what I recall. Especially things like cut-scene direction and detail on character models.

 

[EverydayBeast]

Games like ac, cod graphics feel familiar. Cyberpunk, GT7, Gears 5 graphics are beast.

 

[KungFucius]

DEI

Why do idiots think it is due to some conspiracy to hire low performers instead of leadership chasing dollars? FFS nothing in business is done to intentionally lose money, especially hiring people to fill a quota. What the fuck do you people think the stock market and investors actually are? Charities that donate to companies to hire the wrong people? They are fucking investors. If a company does not perform, they sell their shares and go to a company that actually performs. It is moronic to not consider this basic fact about our economic system when you have to decide if your DEI is ruining things model makes a lick of sense. Hiring bad people on purpose is what you DEI criers think is happening. That's what you clowns think DEI is, companies blowing billions by putting the wrong people in critical roles. The fuck?