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[John Kowalski]

It matters because it's only being called sexist because it's regarding a woman taking a man's last name. If in a gay couple, one wants the other guy to take his last name, is that still sexist? No it's not. The majority of people like the tradition of one last name and they aren't likely doing to be sexist. It shouldn't be assumed that it's under sexist reasoning.

That still has no bearing on whether the custom of a woman taking a man's name is sexist or not, of course sexism only exists when there's sex specific discrimination happening. You're making a ridiculous comparison, frankly, and i apologize for the bluntness but that's like saying that a white slaver only having white slaves means that black slavery shouldn't be assumed to be racist, a point whose sheer inadequacy should be fairly obvious, given the historical context of slavery in the US.

Otherwise, what's the distinction between not being sexist and participating in a sexist custom, and participating while also being sexist? At the end of the day both are acting in ways that are discriminating, the same way that it doesn't matter if you're not a racist and vote for Trump, voting for Trump is actively engaging in a choice that will have racist repercussions.

 

[3N16MA]

He should take your last name and then he can feel more like family.

 

[LittleBoots]

I think that generally when two people have opposing views with no real solution that satisfies both people, it is important to look at whose demands are more reasonable than the others. When it comes to marital names, it is more reasonable to want to keep your own name than to want somebody to change their name to yours. So basically, the only real compromise is that the guy deals with it.

That's what I think he'll end up doing in the end.

Different last names in one family group isn't as big a deal as some here make it out to be.

Right. I'm not sure why some people believe it's so important for all members of a family to have the same last name. I understand the symbolism of unity, but you can still be a united family while having different last names.

 

[QuantumZebra]

WTF am I getting married for? You don't have to take my name, and if you leave me I have to fork over half my stuff, and if we have kids the female gets the benefit of the doubt and gets custody of the kids more often than not. Take my name.

I knew I shouldn't have come back to this thread.

A) If she leaves you its half of "both of your" stuff. If you have more and earn more and you marry someone that has less, WITHOUT a pre-nup, then it is known she will get half of what is established "as is".

B) If she gets custody of the kids it is on you and your lawyer, don't blame the justice system - there is favoritism just like there is unfairness in any system... if you don't like it then become a Judge.

---

None of the "She takes me name" folks have any response when it comes to the simple fact that your are demanding they do something that puts them below you (taking your name over theirs). That is sexist. That is a hypocrite (asking them to do something that you wouldn't do).

--

I wonder what y'all would say about a gay couple? If you were gay? Is it black and white then?

This world has no place for such outdated BS.

 

[SDCowboy]

That still has no bearing on whether the custom of a woman taking a man's name is sexist or not, of course sexism only exists when there's sex specific discrimination happening. You're making a ridiculous comparison, frankly, and i apologize for the bluntness but that's like saying that a white slaver only having white slaves means that black slavery shouldn't be assumed to be racist, a point whose sheer inadequacy should be fairly obvious, given the historical context of slavery in the US.

Otherwise, what's the distinction between not being sexist and participating in a sexist custom, and participating while also being sexist? At the end of the day both are acting in ways that are discriminating, the same way that it doesn't matter if you're not a racist and vote for Trump, voting for Trump is actively engaging in a choice that will have racist repercussions.

It's nothing like that. You seem to be assuming the woman taking the man's last name is sexist. What if the woman wants to take the last name (which it seems most still do. Unless I'm wrong). Is she being sexist towards herself? The point is, you shouldn't assume someone who prefers the tradition that most married couples agree to, is based on the guy being sexist.

 

[Hip Hop]

This world has no place for such outdated BS.

What was the point of this thread then?

To "weed" out people that don't follow your shit?

 

[xxracerxx]

WTF am I getting married for? You don't have to take my name, and if you leave me I have to fork over half my stuff, and if we have kids the female gets the benefit of the doubt and gets custody of the kids more often than not. Take my name.

Sounds like you should never get married.

 

[Already Torn]

I'm good with whatever. It would be super cool to marry someone who's name is too important to change, or someone who feels a strong identity to their name.

 

[John Kowalski]

It's nothing like that. You're assuming the woman taking the man's last name is sexist. What if the woman wants to take the last name (which most still do). Is she being sexist towards herself? The point is, you shouldn't assume someone who prefers the tradition that most married couples agree to, is based on the guy being sexist.

I'm not saying the guy is sexist, it doesn't matter if the guy is sexist or if the woman is sexist which is far from being impossible, i'm saying the custom is sexist and participating in it is a sexist thing to do.

Also yeah i think men who will have it no other way than the woman taking their name are sexist, but that's a note to my previous sentence which is my main position.

 

[DeaconKnowledge]

Who hurt you? I hope this is a joke.

You're getting married because you want to make a life with that person, not because you want to unload your surname on them, I hope. If you don't want to have to "fork over half of your stuff" which isn't the case in a lot of places, anyway, it's called a prenup agreement. The female may get benefit of the doubt in a custody battle if she's of sound mind and has the means, but maybe if you weren't such a mess with your opinions you'd get joint custody, or partial. Bruh.

I don't see how a woman choosing to not take your surname changes those later points in any way, and the manner in which you've phrased it makes it look as if you're too wholly focused on what you own or made rather than a relationship. Check your negative viewpoint.

------

I don't have to get married to make a life with a person.

I'm sorry, but in this day and age there is no advantage whatsoever for a man to get married (to a woman, not sure how it breaks down when two men or women get divorced.) I can share my life with a woman living common law and still enjoy all marriage has to offer.

A lot of people groaned at my post but outside of tradition there is zero purpose for a man to get married in 2016. The way I see it, if I have to buy an expensive ring, fork in for a lavish wedding and rent clothes i'll only wear once, all while risking my fortune and custody of my children WHETHER OR NOT I sign a prenup, you better be damn sure you're taking my name.

 

[Two Words]

It's nothing like that. You're assuming the woman taking the man's last name is sexist. What if the woman wants to take the last name (which most still do). Is she being sexist towards herself? The point is, you shouldn't assume someone who prefers the tradition that most married couples agree to, is based on the guy being sexist.

How can you know that most women actually want to take the man's name when they're all raised in a society that expects it? For all you know, most would rather not do so, but feel it is too much drama to fight against customary expectations.

 

[LittleBoots]

What was the point of this thread then?

To "weed" out people that don't follow your shit?

Let me be clear: by no means did I make this thread in order to have arguments regarding sexism. That's not what I expected either.

 

[tiebreaker]

It's not that important for me. But I have this idea of changing my surname into middle name and just create a new name together.

Of course, it would also depends on my SO and my family.

 

[xxracerxx]

I'm sorry, but in this day and age there is no advantage whatsoever for a man to get married (to a woman, not sure how it breaks down when two men or women get divorced.) I can share my life with a woman living common law and still enjoy all marriage has to offer.

What's the advantage of a woman getting married, half your stuff and kids?

 

[TheSchwab_7]

I made this same thread a few months ago. Do whatever you want. Names really don't matter in the long run. If you want to keep your name then your partner should support you. Having the same last name doesn't mean you're not family.

 

[SDCowboy]

How can you know that most women actually want to take the man's name when they're all raised in a society that expects it? For all you know, most would rather not do so, but feel it is too much drama to fight against customary expectations.

While that's a good point, I'd like to think in 2016 that, for most women, if they truly didn't want to change their last name, they would find a compromise (which is the biggest part of marriage).

 

[Tenebrous]

Sounds like you will never get married.

FTFY.

 

[Keri]

I kept my last name, because it's my name. My husband was completely cool with it. Our son has my last name as a middle name and his father's last name, as his last name. Totally works for us.

 

[SDCowboy]

I kept my last name, because it's my name. My husband was completely cool with it. Our son has my last name as a middle name and his father's last name, as his last name. Totally works for us.

This I would be totally cool with.

 

[Pluto]

Probably helps if people said where they were from. Countries have different takes on these sorts of things.

Germany. I didn't say because it could just be a regional thing, I didn't want to speak for the entire coumtry.

 

[Two Words]

While that's a good point, I'd like to think in 2016 that, for most women, if they truly didn't want to change their last name, they would find a compromise (which is the biggest part of marriage).

There isn't really much room for compromise. Hyphenation is one, but most people don't have a hyphenated name. If you wanted to see whether or not most women care about changing their names, you'd have to have a population that doesn't ingrain women changing their name as an expectation. Society bends people into expecting it. Why do you think men are so against changing their names while women are typically more willing? It's likely not due to some natural phenomena in men and women. Society has built that expectation into us. And it's unfair to somehow use that expectation that society embedded into women against them to say women don't mind.

 

[LittleBoots]

I'm sorry, but in this day and age there is no advantage whatsoever for a man to get married (to a woman, not sure how it breaks down when two men or women get divorced.) I can share my life with a woman living common law and still enjoy all marriage has to offer.

A lot of people groaned at my post but outside of tradition there is zero purpose for a man to get married in 2016. The way I see it, if I have to buy an expensive ring, fork in for a lavish wedding and rent clothes i'll only wear once, all while risking my fortune and custody of my children WHETHER OR NOT I sign a prenup, you better be damn sure you're taking my name.

I think we've already stated ITT why this is untrue. A legal marriage is absolutely beneficial for the people involved. As far as a wedding goes, you can go against tradition and not have one. Or you can have a small wedding that isn't so "lavish". You don't have to buy an expensive ring and fork over a ton of cash for a wedding. No one said you have to do that. Just like no one should say your partner has to take your name. It seems like you just like traditions that benefit you, and hate the traditions that don't.

 

[StylesClash]

The whole point of this thread is that there should be a CHOICE involved. That's it. You as a married couple choose what to do.

 

[SDCowboy]

There isn't really much room for compromise. Hyphenation is one, but most people don't have a hyphenated name. If you wanted to see whether or not most women care about changing their names, you'd have to have a population that doesn't ingrain women changing their name as an expectation. Society bends people into expecting it. Why do you think men are so against changing their names while women are typically more willing? It's likely not due to some natural phenomena in men and women. Society has built that expectation into us. And it's unfair to somehow use that expectation that society embedded into women against them to say women don't mind.

The other compromise could be the wife keeps just her name if she so wishes, but the kids get the dad's last name.

 

[Easton Dark]

So basically, the only real compromise is that the guy deals with it.

Though I agree the guy's demand is not worth entertaining, that's not a compromise. I think in the best kind of relationship, both people should be equally happy.

Unfortunately in this instance, a compromise would be un-doable, so just make it up with extra kindness somewhere else.

 

[StylesClash]

The other compromise could be the wife keeps just her name if she so wishes, but the kids get the dad's last name.

Why do the kids take the dad's last name when the mom carries the child around for nine months? That's a honest question. Shouldn't there be a CHOICE in that as well?

 

[Two Words]

Though I agree the guy's demand is not worth entertaining, that's not a compromise. I think in the best kind of relationship, both people should be equally happy.

Unfortunately in this instance, a compromise would be un-doable, so just make it up with extra kindness somewhere else.

But your last statement is entertaining his demands. Ultimately, sometimes people ask for too much and the only thing you can tell them is no and for them to deal with how it makes them feel.

 

[QuantumZebra]

What was the point of this thread then?

To "weed" out people that don't follow your shit?

Um, I didn't make the thread?

 

[DeaconKnowledge]

I think we've already stated ITT why this is untrue. A legal marriage is absolutely beneficial for the people involved. As far as a wedding goes, you can go against tradition and not have one. Or you can have a small wedding that isn't so "lavish". You don't have to buy an expensive ring and fork over a ton of cash for a wedding. No one said you have to do that. Just like no one should say your partner has to take your name. It seems like you just like traditions that benefit you, and hate the traditions that don't.

That's nice to say in theory, though in practice not all women subscribe to this liberated idea of small/nonexistent tradition or a continued common law relationship.

I think what i'm saying is fair. FOR ME PERSONALLY, if I decide i'm marrying my lady, a condition of that is that she's taking my name.

 

[SDCowboy]

Why do the kids take the dad's last name when the mom carries the child around for nine months? That's a honest question. Shouldn't there be a CHOICE in that as well?

Oh good grief. It's an option. One that both would have to agree on. Why do some people insist on going off the deep end on the subject? lol

 

[StylesClash]

Oh good grief. It's an option. One that both would have to agree on. Why do some people insist on going off the deep end on the subject? lol

Seriously. A lot of kids are just assumed to take the dads last name I am just asking why not the mothers name?

 

[hodgy100]

Marriage itself is an old fashioned tradition and doesn't really offer anything besides a false feeling of being closer.

It is also a legally binding union that gives you many protections and benefits.

 

[Two Words]

The other compromise could be the wife keeps just her name if she so wishes, but the kids get the dad's last name.

That isn't really a compromise in any real way. Imagine if we were going to get food and we disagreed on where we should eat. You want Chinese, I want pizza. Then you say "Fine, let's compromise. We'll just do something a bit more inconvenient and get both Chinese and pizza for ourselves. But next time we go out to eat, we get Chinese. It's a good compromise, right?" No, it's not.

 

[SDCowboy]

That isn't really a compromise in any real way. Imagine if we were going to get food and we disagreed on where we should eat. You want Chinese, I want pizza. Then you say "Fine, let's compromise. We'll just do something a bit more inconvenient and get both Chinese and pizza for ourselves. But next time we go out to eat, we get Chinese. It's a good compromise, right?" No, it's not.

It's completely a compromise if the woman thinks it's fair. A compromise is in the eyes of the two people.

 

[QuantumZebra]

Seriously. A lot of kids are just assumed to take the dads last name I am just asking why not the mothers name?

The answer, and the thing people in this thread have trouble accepting, is sexism.

Patriarchal society deems that women take the man's name.

That is a sexist system.

People can call it tradition all the want, but one could then also say that anti-Civil Rights "traditions" such as segregated bathrooms are also valid.

Both are outdated and prejudiced.

--

What blows this all up is gay marriage, most beautifully.

 

[Two Words]

Oh good grief. It's an option. One that both would have to agree on. You do know what a compromise is, right? It's an agreement between the two...

com·pro·mise
ˈkämprəˌmīz/Submit
noun
1.
an agreement or a settlement of a dispute that is reached by each side making concessions.

One side saying "Okay, fine you can keep your name" is NOT a concession.

 

[LittleBoots]

I think what i'm saying is fair. FOR ME PERSONALLY, if I decide i'm marrying my lady, a condition of that is that she's taking my name.

But you said if you had to spend all this money on a huge marriage and a ring, and adhere to all other archaic traditions, she would have to take your name. If this weren't the case, would you still insist? What if she really was okay with a small marriage? What if she really didn't mind an inexpensive ring?

 

[SDCowboy]

Seriously. A lot of kids are just assumed to take the dads last name I am just asking why not the mothers name?

Well they certainly could take the mother's. Unless they just automatically legally get assigned the dad's name. I don't have kids so I don't know.

 

[Two Words]

It's completely a compromise if the woman thinks it's fair. A compromise is in the eyes of the two people.

And here we are back to the argument of holding women accountable for being okay with things society has ingrained them to be okay with......

 

[Banglish]

Oh good grief. It's an option. One that both would have to agree on. Why do some people insist on going off the deep end on the subject? lol

But culturally, the thing that happens the most is that the mother/wife/female partner takes the husband's name. Why is that?

 

[GK86]

I have only ever thought of marriage with one of my girlfriends. Never really gave much thought to the name taking.

Honestly, I don't care if she takes my name or not. I probably wouldn't take her name since my name is unique as fuck.

 

[QuantumZebra]

But you said if you had to spend all this money on a huge marriage and a ring, and adhere to all other archaic traditions, she would have to take your name. If this weren't the case, would you still insist? What if she really was okay with a small marriage? What if she really didn't mind an inexpensive ring?

On your original question: I totally ehdorse keeping your own names and/or hyphenating kids' names (or blending the names to make new ones).

The question you're asking here won't be given a valid answer by some in this thread because they are coming from a position of "tradition" that cannot bend or flex at all.

It's like arguing God, or politics.

 

[SDCowboy]

com·pro·mise
ˈkämprəˌmīz/Submit
noun
1.
an agreement or a settlement of a dispute that is reached by each side making concessions.

One side saying "Okay, fine you can keep your name" is NOT a concession.

Sure it is. If the husband wants her to take his name, and she wants to keep hers, and they agree it's fair to have the kids take his name and she can keep hers, a concession has been made. It's up to them if it's fair or right. Not you or I.

 

[Two Words]

Sure it is. If the husband wants her to take his name, and she wants to keep hers, and they agree it's fair to have the kids take his name and she can keep hers, a concession has been made. It's up to them if it's fair or right. Not you or I.

"I want your ball."

"But I want to have my ball."

"Fine, let's compromise. You can have your ball, but I'm going to have your pokemon cards instead. It's a fair compromise where both of us are conceding things we want in favor of making the other person happy."

 

[Dominator]

I would prefer she took my last name. I would extremely disappointed if she didn't, but I wouldn't end things if she didn't want to. I'm old fashioned in that regard, but it's not an absolute deal breaker.

My girlfriend I'm planning to propose too soon is the same as me, she wants nothing more than to take my last name so that is what we are going to do.

We both come from large, traditional Italian families where taking the last name is 100% common on both sides. Not one couple didn't do it. It's just how we were raised.

 

[Stalfos]

Before my wife and I got getting married she had informed me that she wanted to keep her name. I had thought I would like her to take my name at the time. She ended up not taking my name. We have now been married six years and I have no problem with us not having the same last name now. In hindsight I shouldn't have cared if she took it or not since it was her choice. Every once in a while there is some confusion when friends figure out we have different last names but its not a big deal.

 

[SDCowboy]

"I want your ball."

"But I want to have my ball."

"Fine, let's compromise. You can have your ball, but I'm going to have your pokemon cards instead. It's a fair compromise where both of us are conceding things we want in favor of making the other person happy."

Yep, and for better or worse, that's marriage. lol

 

[EhoaVash]

I guess this is a none issue with me as I has to marry someone with the same last name as mine.

Kinda bummer, for me

 

[DeaconKnowledge]

But you said if you had to spend all this money on a huge marriage and a ring, and adhere to all other archaic traditions, she would have to take your name. If this weren't the case, would you still insist? What if she really was okay with a small marriage? What if she really didn't mind an inexpensive ring?

I told you my opinion on this. I don't want to get married. If you want to keep your name, not getting married is the perfect solution, no?

If you DO want to get married, my condition is that you take my name. Otherwise i'm not interested.

 

[Einchy]

So for families where the woman doesn't take the man's last name, what last name does the child take? Cus America isn't really suited to having multiple last-names, I always have to explain to people that one is my dad's last name and one is my mom's cus shit doesn't fit well in forms and that kinda stuff.