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Next-Gen PS5 & XSX |OT| Console tEch threaD

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ZywyPL

Banned
To be fair, they also considered PS4 Pro a 4K machine...

True, but even though then can mimic 8K resolution, it's impossible to fake FPS, and if the devs themselves openly talk about 120 or even 240FPS (for a game as graphically stunning as GT), then you simply have to ask the question, would it be really possible with just 9TF?
 

Gavin Stevens

Formerly 'o'dium'
source.gif


I REALLY cant wait for the inevitable 'Next gen vs PC' Youtube game comparison vids when the consoles launch lol.

You might want to get comfy then, because nothing will take advantage of SSDs on console for quite a while that just won’t physically be possible with a traditional drive.

Foe the first year or so, at least i would say, they won’t be using the SSD to its full potential.

But the sooner we ditch mechanical drives the better. I switched and I never looked back, and the times I’ve had to use mechanical drives, it’s been PAINFUL to me 🤣 I mean from a cold boot to windows in 2 seconds, stick my password in and everything is THERE. Click the Internet? It’s there. Open after burner? It’s there. Open my C drive? It’s there. Do all the above at once? No delay, hanging around, no waiting for shit to load in the background and that awkward moment where you ask “did I actually double click that icon?” ITS THERE.

Seriously people if you don’t have an SSD yet, just do yourself a favour and buy one. I stuck a 2080ti and 2700x into my rig and I STILL think my SSD is the best thing i got for it lol...
 
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Gavin Stevens

Formerly 'o'dium'
True, but even though then can mimic 8K resolution, it's impossible to fake FPS, and if the devs themselves openly talk about 120 or even 240FPS (for a game as graphically stunning as GT), then you simply have to ask the question, would it be really possible with just 9TF?

Yes. You could load PS4 GT on a 9tf PS5 with updated architecture and improvements and yes, it could run at 240fps. (But that’s an old ass PS4 game, not a PS5 one)

But that doesn’t matter because the ps5, and say it with me kids...

ITS NOT GONNA BE 9tf!!! 🤣
 
On the one hand, the pastebin that I have quoted is one that someone put here, not me. And on the other hand, I don't know if I understood correctly, you suggest that what is published in Pastebin has the same security as my direct and personal opinions and experiences? If I misunderstood you then excuse me. I understand your frustration, but imagine mine that worked without knowing dates and without knowing if it will be canceled at any time because of the blessed SARS-CoV-2.
Do you think it is a possibility that Sony has 2PS5 models with different specs for launch? I’m not asking if they are doing it, just if you think it is possible. Thanks.
 

Stuart360

Member
You might want to get comfy then, because nothing will take advantage of SDDs on console for quite a while that just won’t physically be possible with a traditional drive.

Foe the first year or so, at least i would say, they won’t be using the SSD to its full potential.

But the sooner we ditch mechanical drives the better. I switched and I never looked back, and the times I’ve had to use mechanical drives, it’s been PAINFUL to me 🤣 I mean from a cold boot to windows in 2 seconds, stick my password in and everything is THERE. Click the Internet? It’s there. Open after burner? It’s there. Open my C drive? It’s there. Do all the above at once? No delay, hanging around, no waiting for shit to load in the background and that awkward moment where you ask “did I actually double click that icon?” ITS THERE.

Seriously people of you don’t have an SSD yet, just do yourself a favour and buy one. I stuck a 2080ti and 2700x into my rig and I STILL think my SSD is the best thing o got for it lol...
Oh i'm with you on all that, and i have 2 SSD's myself. I was replying to your PC's wont be able to match next gen console performence'. That is laughable, and the youtube comparison vids of launch games will show that. I mean yeah people with shitty PC's it will be true, but people with high end PC's, no.
 
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xool

Member
Sony Shu filmed the second hand games video on site and uploaded to YT hours after Xb1 presser.

No 13tflops tweet, pure silence = bad news.
Im trying to lower expectations for ultimate ps5 disappointment

..and all those people are gone. Except shu who's in some indie game limbo we don't know if is an insult or a reward ..
 

DrDamn

Member
I think we have to end a misconception. If an architecture is x % more efficient, that doesn't mean it's x % more powerful. It means it can do the same task with less power consumption. 12 TF RDNA aren't performing as 16 TF GCN. They are as efficient. A floating point operation is just that. A game built for 16 teraflops GCN simply doesn't run on 12 TF RDNA. So no, a 9.2 TF RDNA console is not three times more powerful than a PS4 Pro. It's two point something more powerful and can achieve the same task with less energy consumption.

I think you are confusing a few things. Power in terms of energy usage and power as in graphical output. Yes RDNA is more energy efficient than GCN, but RDNA is also more efficient than GCN at turning raw theoretical graphical power into output. So in actual real world tests a 9TF RDNA card will out perform a higher TF GCN card. This is proven in benchmark tests.
 
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base

Banned
Do you think it is a possibility that Sony has 2PS5 models with different specs for launch? I’m not asking if they are doing it, just if you think it is possible. Thanks.
Definitely not. Look back at PS4 Pro. Did every dev studio make a patch for the Pro version? No. And Sony can't force them to do it.
 

Stuart360

Member
I think you are confusing a few things. Power in terms of energy usage and power as in graphical output. Yes RDNA is more energy efficient than GCN, but RDNA is also more efficient than GCN at turning raw theoretical graphical power into output. So in actual real world tests a 9TF RDNA card will equal or out perform a higher TF GCN card. This is proven in benchmark tests.
Well Nvidia vs AMD gpu's have shown that plenty of times over the years, with lower TF Nvidia gpu's often producing better results than higher TF AMD cards.
 

mitchman

Gold Member
AMD continues to play it safe with clock speeds. 2 Ghz PS5 sounds so unlikely unless they are watercooling it (which nobody would do in a console).

But the power consumption is interesting. This is RDNA2 at 350 TDP. Going by the other data the XSX GPU will be roughly 60 % of this monster. Or 210 TDP. Add a Zen 2 at around 15 Watt and I/O and you are probably looking at a 250 Watt machine.
210W TDP means a typical power draw of up to 300W (+30-50% of TDP for the power draw is not uncommon) just for the GPU alone, then add other components. Very unlikely.
 
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ethomaz

Banned

Seems like 7nm+ doesn’t make the chip small like people expected.
Neither cool for 2Ghz commercial desktop card.

Interesting to compare the 380-400mm2 of Xbox One Series X with that 550mm2 desktop chip.
X include CPU, I/O, cache and add units of an APU.

Is that BigNavi with RT already?
 
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ThisIsMyDog

Member
I have a theory.

Sony canceled the scheduled conference "thanks" to virus. Imagine several hundred journalists from around the world in one room when we are practically on the threshold of a global pandemic. That would be PR shot in the foot. One sick person without symptoms could infect dozens of others, imagine what bad press it would be when we will have later cases around the world connected to the Sony press conf.

On the day when Sony opened the PS5 website where they wrote that they are not ready for the show, i think they truly and in frist place wanted to show conference date for us, but that didint happend.

They are currently wondering how to make a large presentation but without any external guests.
 

hemo memo

You can't die before your death
You might want to get comfy then, because nothing will take advantage of SSDs on console for quite a while that just won’t physically be possible with a traditional drive.

Foe the first year or so, at least i would say, they won’t be using the SSD to its full potential.

Spider Man is taking advantage of that. That’s even before the console launch. Eliminating load times alone is big.
 
Definitely not. Look back at PS4 Pro. Did every dev studio make a patch for the Pro version? No. And Sony can't force them to do it.
Sony doesn't need to force them, they are going to do it because they want to sell the game to the hardcore gamers. Also, they can force them, Lockheart proves it.

Just asking if we can discard the PS5 Pro at launch or not.
 

Gamernyc78

Banned
Do you think it is a possibility that Sony has 2PS5 models with different specs for launch? I’m not asking if they are doing it, just if you think it is possible. Thanks.

Anything is possible. Remember this was the Sony that came out with different ps3's at launch. A phat with more storage and few diff features and one with less storage. Also bc was non existent in one version.
 
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DrDamn

Member
Was this posted already:

Rumor: First PS5 External SSD to be Shown and Demoed at PAX East


It's been posted a couple of times. Interesting but the conclusions seem quite a stretch to be honest.
 
Anything is possible. Remember this was the Sony that came out with different ps3's at launch. A phat with more storage and bc and one with less storage and no bc.
Both PS3 models had BC. The differences were wifi, card reader and hdd capacity. Not the same case as differences in GPU.

Anyways I'm asking just to know if we can discard that possibility or not. Because I don't like it.
 
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Darklor01

Might need to stop sniffing glue
Mark my words Sony is about to reveal something related to the PS5 that's why Phil Spencer dropped that info randomly. I'm pretty sure it's gonna be in March.

Maybe, but I’m pretty sure Phil Spencer said it’s was the plan all along to reveal what they did when they did in a tweet somewhere. Also, no offense, but having 31 days to be right or wrong, as time draws closer to launch, eventually someone’s words saying something g similar will be right. I hope they reveal in March just as much as I’ll hope they reveal in April if they don’t. The wait is awful, but I’m starting to care less and less about it.
 

JAMMA

Last warning for console wars
If the PS5 is actually stronger than Xbox Series X, are you all going to defend it and come up with any justifications possible or will you all accept it simple as that?

If the PS5 has the better hardware it’s the better hardware. Period.

I’d buy a PS5 until we hear about the mid-Gen refreshes. I go where the superior multiplats are. I collect physical media, and I like to own the definitive physical version of games when available.
 
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Gamernyc78

Banned
Both PS3 models had BC. The differences were wifi, card reader and hdd capacity.
Both PS3 models had BC. The differences were wifi, card reader and hdd capacity. Not the same case as differences in GPU.

Anyways I'm asking just to know if we can discard that possibility or not. Because I don't like it.

👌 And yes we know not the same case as gpus but the point still stands it's possible since Sony has released models with different features at different price points.

For the record I also don't like the low end gpu idea just like I don't like the lockhart idea for obvious reasons.
 
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BGs

Industry Professional
Do you think it is a possibility that Sony has 2PS5 models with different specs for launch? I’m not asking if they are doing it, just if you think it is possible. Thanks.
Short answer:

It would be an absurd decision for me.

Long answer:

In my opinion, I don't think it's smart to get two output models with different power. The logical thing would be to reduce things like storage capacity or physical reader, or even the quality of external material. That would reduce the cost without sacrificing power. But if you start already sectioning the market with two powers, we will enter the PC philosophy. And I don't think that's good for the console market. The ideal for us is to be able to develop based on a single configuration to squeeze the most out of a technology. If there are two options better than with subtle or merely irrelevant changes with respect to each other. Even thinking logically, if you decide to take two versions, one with bluray and another without bluray thinking about digital content or streaming, I don't know if it really would cost costs, since a console designed for digital content needs more storage space, and that space is more expensive than the bluray unit. We would have to study all possibilities very well.
 

Darklor01

Might need to stop sniffing glue
This is kind of what I remembered.
Same! And, I owned both. ;)

“The 40GB had no backward compatibilityat all. In 2008, Sony scrapped the backward-compatible 80GB altogether and replaced it with a version that does not play PS2 games. Today, the two PS3 models in production are the 40GB and 80GB versions, both of which only play PS1 games.”
 
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darkinstinct

...lacks reading comprehension.
You might want to get comfy then, because nothing will take advantage of SSDs on console for quite a while that just won’t physically be possible with a traditional drive.

Foe the first year or so, at least i would say, they won’t be using the SSD to its full potential.

But the sooner we ditch mechanical drives the better. I switched and I never looked back, and the times I’ve had to use mechanical drives, it’s been PAINFUL to me 🤣 I mean from a cold boot to windows in 2 seconds, stick my password in and everything is THERE. Click the Internet? It’s there. Open after burner? It’s there. Open my C drive? It’s there. Do all the above at once? No delay, hanging around, no waiting for shit to load in the background and that awkward moment where you ask “did I actually double click that icon?” ITS THERE.

Seriously people if you don’t have an SSD yet, just do yourself a favour and buy one. I stuck a 2080ti and 2700x into my rig and I STILL think my SSD is the best thing i got for it lol...

I'd even go a bit further and say starting in 2023 we will see games built specifically for SSDs. The first two years of any new generation are mostly crossgen games. And they need to be built with HDDs in mind. The SSD in next gen consoles will give a benefit, but not a revolution. After that transition phase, when there are 50 million next gen consoles and it makes sense to develop exclusively for them, then you will see SSD centric games.
 

Gavin Stevens

Formerly 'o'dium'
Spider Man is taking advantage of that. That’s even before the console launch. Eliminating load times alone is big.

I really don’t want to answer this same thing again but here we go...

Spider man is a game that loads it’s world data first at base lod/mips, and in this situation will load very fast, in seconds. Once your main data is loaded it will then load in extra data such as increased LODs and mips, effects and the like, and using a priority based proximity lookup will load them in as required so that objects next to you load first, further away loads last. Basic stuff.

This same speed increase will be seen on a bog standard SSD on a bog standard pc. Or on SX.

The reason spider was chosen, was because of the above. It loads very quickly in these cases and calls data even quicker because you don’t need to load all your assets up front. NOTHING the Spiderman demo did, is not possible on a conventional SSD on a pc.

This isn’t saying that it’s bad, or wrong, it’s simply saying it’s not as important as you may think. The demo could have been on a base ps4 and would have been much the same, *with a little tinkering*, using some modified calls and the SSD.

Most games do NOT load this way. They load their data up front, and have a much larger memory requirement on load. For example, stick an SSD only a top range pc and you wot be loading CoD instantly, instead it will be quicker but not much.

SSDs do NOT eliminate loading. They simply make the loading of assets into and out of memory quicker because they randomly read data faster. So if your base game has a requirement of loading low memory assets first, then putting you ingame, then calling higher mips and LODs once there, it will do that extremely fast compared to a game that requires a large sized bsp be loaded, then all it’s assets called into memory.

Unless you game is specially built for this purpose you won’t see much speed increase, and it certainly won’t be instant. Now that’s not to say that next gen this won’t change. In fact I would bet my house on it. But that change requires a substantial rewrite to how your game engine works and quite frankly most don’t do that. It also requires a faster memory access speed to work in conjunction with it.

Another issue... Spiderman is a very low quality game in a high quality suit. If you actually look at it, it’s world is low detail, it’s textures are low resolution for the most part but masked with high frequency detail blending. It’s a gorgeous game yes, but it’s also a very basic game from a TEXTURE stand point. This means it’s also very easy on memory requirements. Open world games are usually built this way because you tend to move around the environment quickly and assets need to be swapped in and out of memory quickly on the fly. But next gen? Those textures will double, quadruple in not only size, but also in quantity. You will be seeing higher polygon models, with higher resolution textures, and in a higher quantity - this shits not free, and takes up a substantial amount of memory. In fact, textures wise, it’s an exponential increase just to go up in quality. Textures are not created as a normal image (inthat they can be any resolution). They have set resolutions. If you want a higher res texture than 2048x2048 then your only option is 4096x4096 (or 2048x4096). That’s four times the memory requirement for a jump in texel density. If you want to go higher it’s another 4x the previous increase. This is why it’s very common to see base textures that look fine use detail normal mapping to increase up close minute surface detail - for example on Spider-Man’s suit.

So what does it all mean, Basil?

It means Spiderman was picked because it was a best case scenario to show the feature off. It means not every game will work that way and some will load the same they do now. It means that even with all these advancements in loading asset speed, you will still see massive jumps in how much you have to load, making them have even less of an impact.

Don’t get me wrong, SSD tech is brilliant. But some of you really do think you’re getting instant loading for everything. You’re not going to get that in moat cases. You will get masked loading working better, I.e pre-caching of assets in set cases in special ways without any large interruption to the player. Other wise known as loading behind a menu, or a cinematic, or an elevator, or a forced waking section. But these can be minimised now

Remember that this will apply to BOTH consoles. And PC.

There is no physical way around this barrier. If you want instant loading, you will need to load all data that will be called during gameplay upfront into memory, and 16gb/32gb memory isn’t going to cut it.(And no, you can’t just use the SSD as virtual ram, because even with a rumoured peak SSD speed on ps5 of 5.8gb/sec you’re still far far slower compared to gddr6)

So best case scenario is that most games will load a bit quicker, some will load instantly with masked loading or, if they are simple games, just there and then. But tricks will still be used, of course, to minimise all this.
 

darkinstinct

...lacks reading comprehension.
Yes. You could load PS4 GT on a 9tf PS5 with updated architecture and improvements and yes, it could run at 240fps. (But that’s an old ass PS4 game, not a PS5 one)

But that doesn’t matter because the ps5, and say it with me kids...

ITS NOT GONNA BE 9tf!!! 🤣
Do you know that it's not going to be 9 TF? Then what is it?
 

Gamernyc78

Banned
We are talking about launch models. 40 GB version was released at a later date.

David thts not true I just looked it up some regions had 40gb model at launch. It's OK to be wrong 🤦‍♂️

"At launch, the PlayStation 3 was available with either a 20, 40, 60, or 80 GB hard disk drive in the US and Japan, priced from US$499 to US$599; and with either a 40, 60, or 80 GB hard disk drive in Europe, priced from £299 to £425.[1]"

Either way the point still stands.
 
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