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EuroGamer: More details on the BALANCE of XB1
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luca_29_bg
Member
The point about clothing weight finally made me realize what impressed me so much about the animation in that trailer. The clothes seem heavy. I guess I only realized it on a subconscious level. Couldn't articulate it before now.
Angelus Errare
Banned
I think the biggest take away from this is the hardware scaler and dynamic resolution scaling. I expect later games to utilize it very well.
luca_29_bg
Member
nothing!
luca_29_bg
Member
YES!!! it's something that i have perceived immediately ! And it's, at least for me, incredible, because it's the first time that characters in video game seems completely real, their clothes seems to fit their bodies realistically! It's amazing!
Ever since the display plane info came out I was expecting MS to encourage devs to use 1080p HUDs to counter one of the most obvious issues with sub-native res. They knew 1080p wasn't always going to happen and planned ahead to at least make it less distracting. XBO shouldn't wind up with anything like the annoyingly stretched HUDs in the PS3 versions of the Crysis games.
Angelus Errare
Banned
Agreed
flying dutchman
Neo Member
Just like last gen the level of developer will determine which console has the best looking games on it. After been a 100% MS guy through xbox and then 360 I will be going ps4 this time, due to MS and its Kinect rubbish.
But I like to think I am pretty unbiased about this stuff. To me Ryse looks every bit as impressive as KZ and Infamous. But hello, its Crytek making it. They are one of the best developers alive. Just like when ND put out Uncharted and TLOU on PS3..again, hello its ND.
So out of the hundreds of developers out their how many are top elite level? Maybe 10? They will make both consoles sing, and the others will do their best. And even when I was an xbox man, you have to admit that Sony has the best stable of in house developers that will make amazing graphics. That is MSs biggest heal in their foot. They should have bought up Crytek, epic, id etc.
But I like to think I am pretty unbiased about this stuff. To me Ryse looks every bit as impressive as KZ and Infamous. But hello, its Crytek making it. They are one of the best developers alive. Just like when ND put out Uncharted and TLOU on PS3..again, hello its ND.
So out of the hundreds of developers out their how many are top elite level? Maybe 10? They will make both consoles sing, and the others will do their best. And even when I was an xbox man, you have to admit that Sony has the best stable of in house developers that will make amazing graphics. That is MSs biggest heal in their foot. They should have bought up Crytek, epic, id etc.
SenjutsuSage
Banned
Well, I'm done worrying about it. I'm just glad I got to read a decent write-up on the hardware from the people that worked on it and know more about the technical details.
7790 has 96GB/s of memory bandwidth, Xbox One has access to much more memory bandwidth, for the record.
IAmRandom31
Banned
Anyone else get the feeling that if MS falls way behind on the Xbox One, it does not sell near like they thought it would, the developers turn on them, etc MS will release a new system within 4-5 years time?
I have a funny feeling since MS is owned 100% by suits and controlled by very impatient shareholders they will not stand by and watch the Xbox One get hammered in sales and in the media for the next 7 years.
I think from here on we are back on the 5 year gaming cycle personally.
Umm .. no. 32MB of the X1 has access to a little more bandwidth then that. You cannot lump the entire system architecture together just because 32MB of EMBEDDED memory is fast .... er. You still have that 8GB of DDR3 trudging along as slow as a 3 legged turtle. Nothing can save that gigantic mistake. This generation, since we have RAM out of the way thankfully and the devs have more then enough to do what they need to do, it is all about bandwidth. I have owned a 6770 for 4-5 years now, that thing has 78GB/s of memory bandwidth pulled from 2GB of GDDR5. And I am needing to upgrade the thing to get the best quality of current gen games even at my monitors 1600x900 resolutions. You think I am going to go out and buy ( if I could ) a chip with embedded RAM and call it a day? Hell no. I'm going after the higher ROP's, higher memory bandwidth, higher CU's, higher stream processors, higher this .. higher that. My next GPU purchase will very likely be the 7870. It is just the right price range to do what I need my PC to do.
I have a funny feeling since MS is owned 100% by suits and controlled by very impatient shareholders they will not stand by and watch the Xbox One get hammered in sales and in the media for the next 7 years.
I think from here on we are back on the 5 year gaming cycle personally.
Umm .. no. 32MB of the X1 has access to a little more bandwidth then that. You cannot lump the entire system architecture together just because 32MB of EMBEDDED memory is fast .... er. You still have that 8GB of DDR3 trudging along as slow as a 3 legged turtle. Nothing can save that gigantic mistake. This generation, since we have RAM out of the way thankfully and the devs have more then enough to do what they need to do, it is all about bandwidth. I have owned a 6770 for 4-5 years now, that thing has 78GB/s of memory bandwidth pulled from 2GB of GDDR5. And I am needing to upgrade the thing to get the best quality of current gen games even at my monitors 1600x900 resolutions. You think I am going to go out and buy ( if I could ) a chip with embedded RAM and call it a day? Hell no. I'm going after the higher ROP's, higher memory bandwidth, higher CU's, higher stream processors, higher this .. higher that. My next GPU purchase will very likely be the 7870. It is just the right price range to do what I need my PC to do.
if X1 underperform, it would be MS last console.
EDIT: seems like the company is little divided on Xbox divison, any missteps would end it.
The Abominable Snowman
Member
I have no clue what Balance is supposed to mean in this context.
The CPU is weak, so the GPU is closer to the weak CPU instead of being a powerful GPU?
Edit: Even if the XBO is MS' last console, it will be on the market for upwards of 10 years or more.
I don't think it will do bad at all. A lot of my gamer friends are talking about it moreso than the PS4
The CPU is weak, so the GPU is closer to the weak CPU instead of being a powerful GPU?
Edit: Even if the XBO is MS' last console, it will be on the market for upwards of 10 years or more.
I don't think it will do bad at all. A lot of my gamer friends are talking about it moreso than the PS4
crazygambit
Member
Dude, Ryse stands right now as, imo, the most amazing looking game on either system. I don't need to focus on all these multi-platforms that I haven't seen yet. Dude, I've seen Fifa on both PS4 and Xbox One. Do you see a huge difference there, either? That's one game we can talk about that's multi, right? Oh, but there's a catch, I know. It's FIFA
Whatever the case, I'm not living and dying on the numbers. We already know sony's kicking MS ass on the raw numbers. Nobody denies. Nobody is even denying that it will have an impact. Sony's console is stronger, period. But just how much will that show up in the real world is the question. That's all I'm saying. Personally, I would love if the PS4's advantage shows up every bit as much as the raw numbers indicates, because I'm going to own the system. However, realistically, I don't think it's going to happen. Call me one of those stubborn people that have to see it before I believe it. Is that so wrong?
From what we've seen maybe, but everything we've seen of the game has been rendered at 1080p and we know for a fact the game renders at 1650x900. It even says right there in every screenshot "Not representative of final quality". One would assume this means quality would get better, but in this case, specially with regard to resolution, it probably won't be the case.
With the relatively modest specs for both consoles, I expect this cycle will be shorter.
Dat anecdotal evidence.
Speaking of anecdotal evidences, my friends who owned a 360 dont even know that MS did a 180 on the DRM. They think that the draconian policies are still in place are set to buy PS4s.
BruiserBear
Banned
2dshmuplover
Banned
Oh come on now, what is the point of them going to the effort to showcase the X1 and PS4 builds on the same PC?
Unknown One
Member
The only PS4 exclusive under 1080p.
Practicality. They've only ever shown the game on PC, even the "current gen" version, and never said that the game was running on console hardware in either demo. A playable demo takes several people nearly a month to get up and running to be ready to show. Do you really think they would dedicate double the man power to get two separate builds up and running instead of just being able to swap out controller prompts?
So certain, yet could be wrong.
I've only seen Ryse look good in bullshots and cut scenes. Actual gameplay always looked pretty dull and not-next-gen to me.
2dshmuplover
Banned
I think it's safe to assume the game is up and running on devkits for both consoles by now so the whole PC thing seems redundant and pointless. Did they also program different button prompts on the same version just for this demo as well?
I don't see why it would be difficult to cater for two demos considering they making so many versions of the game in the first place.
2dshmuplover
Banned
Yes, multiplayer's not looking too hot as of now, we are aware of that. Single player on the other hand..
Ryse - An inside look at combat
Teletraan1
Banned
The reason this console cycle was so long was the inability to get the consoles BOM down and were never able to sell them at a mass market price. The fact that the PS360 are still so expensive and they had to rely on value added bundles speaks to this. These new consoles were designed to be able to drop prices faster. Neither of these companies if they are even going to be in the console space next time around want a repeat of the last 2 years that we have seen from NPD. Just imo but it makes sense to me.
shinra-bansho
Member
So have the last few pages just been a pissing match between Killzone and Ryse? That's the gist of it I got from a brief skim.
Really not seeing it. Nice lighting in some places but the character models are not so hot. A bunch of bald enemies with bland armor. It's the whole package that's off. The animations really throw everything off. They are all around bad.
Ryse is going to be one of those launch games that are quickly forgotten because it was rushed. It's the Xbox One's Untold Legends or Kameo. I feel the same way about Knack, FWIW.
2dshmuplover
Banned
I think it looks really impressive but I don't think we've seen anything that is to come, that also goes for a number of PS4 games too though. The original E3 demo is still the best showcase for the game (button prompts aside).
However, personally speaking no game that I've seen from either console compares to Forza Motorsport 5, Turn 10 are nothing short of tech wizards. Great things are coming.
BruiserBear
Banned
You're right. I could have worded that better.
Then don't post in threads like this.
So does not quoting them. Click an unquoted image and it will also scale to full size.
That what I said. The Xbox one has 14 CUs with 2 disabled for redundancy, thus using a Bonair in comparison to the PS4 makes the One look more favorable as than it will perform in reality.
Forza 5 is considerably less technically proficient than Ryse, and compared to many next gen titles in fact including KZ, DriveClub, BF4 etc. In terms of lighting (GI and fully dynamic vs baked), shadows, ssao, textures, geometrical complexity, volumetric clouds, smoke etc, particles and post processing, some of the shaders and so on, it falls under par comparatively. Though the overall visuals are still really nice either way (nice art, good track design, high poly cars etc). But I certainly wouldn't call Turn 10 tech wizards based on F5.
Absolutely not. Best case scenario is that Ryse 'wastes' a lot of polygons on inefficiently individually modelling bits of armor completely separately from the 'body'. I mean does it really look that much better than these?
There was what seemed to be an LOD issue in the shot you quoted. The rest of the scene looks exactly like the models in the carriage as you can see in this post.
http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showpost.php?p=83214293&postcount=986
You can't just 'stream it in' it's not as if simply having something not being rendered means you can spend 100% of the hardware in any given scene only on that scene. The heavier your streaming load in general (like with a massive and detailed open world game) the bigger an impact it will have of the game as a whole.
If you're dealing with a smaller area, and your overhead for streaming is mostly just fancy looking things in the background that don't have to have collision and what not, you're free to spend more of your budget on what's in the here and now. In general working in a more linear game design lets you better optimize what it is that the player is actually interacting with.
Especially in a game like Ryse where you aren't moving around at the speed of Sonic the Hedgehog, of flying in a jet and jumping out with your parachute.
eddfromtheriver
Banned
He did indeed, i had nothing but respect for DF, but after his articles... well... not so much.
LukasTaves
Member
The first one is included on the CU count. and 2 and 3 are cause and consequence (Though with the upclock xbone's gigapixel count would be a bit higher).
I do wonder if the ROP difference will matter as performance go... At 1080p xbone has more fillrate power per pixel than 360, and assuming nice esram usage the ROPs will have all the bandwidth they need to achieve close to peak performance... With features like PRT can greatly reduce the number of pixels drawn on intermediate buffers (for instance shadow maps. And I say shadow maps because that was one of the demos Ms showed when they talked about tiled resources)...
Perhaps Sony is focusing on 1080p 3D gaming, or 4k, but for pure and simple 1080p it does look like it's much more than needed (not that this is a bad thing).
In static shots perhaps not, but in movement seeing individual parts of the armor and cloth moving properly with the characters movements is a nice visual effect on Ryse... I wouldn't say that they are wasting polys...
LukasTaves
Member
It's not 50% more performance, that was the whole point of the article XD
And even on that quote he mentioned that the performance (as in framerate) was matched on a lower resolution.
I really don't see what's so outrageous with those claims XD
Kleegamefan
K. LEE GAIDEN
I am very much looking forward to F5 but on a technical level its not that impressive. With non-dynamic baked lighting, it is a last gen game running at 1080p and a high frame rate......
Like me, you fell for. "Good Art"
Titan - 3840x2160 @ 30fps
Intel Iris Pro - 1024x768 @ 30fps
Performance is matched, what's so outrageous about this claim.
That entire comparison was rubbish, and very skewed in order to raise the Xbox Ones comparative GPU to a higher ceiling of diminishing returns, in order to more closely match the higher end PS4 GPU to a greater degree than it ordinarily would. The GPU they used is closer to the PS4's than that of the Xbox Ones, and has far more raw performance than the XOs as well as several other key performance additions too. And at the time the article was written, yes it was a 50% performance difference, Leadbetter trying to obfuscate that with a disingenuous and illogical comparison does not change that.
Garrett 2U
Member
Smiley face? What? Are you proud of your friends' ignorance? Why don't you just like... inform them...?With the relatively modest specs for both consoles, I expect this cycle will be shorter.
Dat anecdotal evidence.
Speaking of anecdotal evidences, my friends who owned a 360 dont even know that MS did a 180 on the DRM. They think that the draconian policies are still in place are set to buy PS4s.
Garrett 2U
Member
It's absolutely ridiculous. New levels of fanboyism.
Having such an agenda to allow friends to remain ignorant on something they very well might be interested in, seeing how they owned 360s.
I'm not proud just find it hilarious the sort of messaging from MS has been since May. And I dont think my friend circle (despite being anecdotal) is not the only ones in the dark. Informing them wont change much since it was a large group switch and I doubt they'll all somehow cancel their PS4 pre-orders and switch back to the Xbone ..
We're getting sidetracked though.
I've never convinced anyone IRL to buy either of the consoles last gen, why should I start now? You can keep calling me names though ..
LukasTaves
Member
Yeah, because he completely ignores the resolution differences and claims that they are both dealing with the exact same load.
I haven't checked his facts, but he says that while both target speced gpus have higher flops count that their console counterparts that he tried the best to keep the same proportion that is seen on xbone vs Ps4.
And again, specs != performance. That's the whole point of the article. To show that a X% number of CUs will yield a lower than X% performance advantage.
And what about the articles prior to that, where he said that Ms focus on the cloud was to deviate attention to the fact their specs were lower? Did he had a pro-Ms agenda back then? For me, seeing the articles in series, it's clear how he first though Ps4 would wipe the floor with xbone, but once he tested he started changing his mind, and started hearing from developers that their performance is actually close only reinforced that...
eddfromtheriver
Banned
Eh, if i was in the same position i wouldn't go out of my way to tell them... HEY!!!... MS just said they were kidding with all the nasty stuff!!!, it's ok to buy one now!!!.
Unless they'd ask me about it, or the convo came up, i wouldn't. And it's not just me... i'm sorry but that's how it goes... bad gossip travels faster than good gossip.