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[neorej]

The MCU never had this awkward "pre-Avengers" vibe. Yes there was some table setting in the individual films but that was mostly relegated to post-credits stingers. Each film was still a whole self-contained story.

Why try to jam all the Justice League set up in one film There'd be plenty of time to do that in the JL film itself.

You're right, except for one film: Iron Man 2. That was so hamfisted with Avengers, it forgot to be an actual movie.

 

[Piku_Ringo]

The MCU never had this awkward "pre-Avengers" vibe. Yes there was some table setting in the individual films but that was mostly relegated to post-credits stingers. Each film was still a whole self-contained story.

Why try to jam all the Justice League set up in one film There'd be plenty of time to do that in the JL film itself.

It's possible he thought he could do it better and faster than Marvel did.

Seems he might've been wrong.

 

[Hystzen]

The thing with marvel is that you actually don't need all the films before Avengers. The avengers first half is just introduction for each character then end climax. Many people I know didn't bother with rest of marvel films til the avengers came out

 

[Cromat]

Just wanted to say holy shit at the number of pages in this thread.

 

[Slayer-33]

So basically no one is in charge of the DC universe?

 

[Dash_Riprock]

34% now, hope lives???

 

[ThoseDeafMutes]

Are you people discussing details of the movie again?

 

[neorej]

So basically no one is in charge of the DC universe?

Zack Snyder is.




The entire DCEU is the great Zack Snyder show.

 

[kmag]

I don't think it's a terrible movie, it's just a movie with a terrible, badly put together, overlong, horrible convoluted and dull first act. I think a lot of the reviewers couldn't get over that. 2nd act is great, 3rd act is pretty standard comicbook fare. They stuffed the takeoff not the landing.

 

[ElyrionX]

I love the fact that Batfleck is seemingly the best thing in this movie. I still remember the epic meltdown fanboys had when Batfleck was announced. The irony is absolutely delicious.

 

[Fliesen]

The thing with marvel is that you actually don't need all the films before Avengers. The avengers first half is just introduction for each character then end climax. Many people I know didn't bother with rest of marvel films til the avengers came out

Yup. You're getting a bag of chex mix and you're free to watch the origin stories of the characters you enjoyed as "prequels"

 

[Mikey Jr.]

These title changes are fucking comedy gold.

 

[ArtHands]

i prefer Kryptonite over "hah, we're holding person_x_who_is_close_to_you hostage!", which pretty much EVERY Superhero movie EVER includes. (which, usually, is a lady or a girl ...)
(Pepper Potts, Mary Jane Watson, Gwen Stacy, Aunt May, ...)

Which is why i found Joker's Game of prisoner's dilemma in TDK so much more interesting than him strapping Rachel Dawes to a bomb.

Which is why straight up Kryptonite based weaponry against Superman is so much more exciting than the 20th time we hear the phrase "who are you gonna save, thousands of innocent lives, or the life of the woman you love?!"
(which leads to those dumb "we can't be together, i'm putting you in danger" storylines in the sequel)

Oh man, i got news for you for this movie.

 

[Fliesen]

Spoiler

Oh man, i got news for you for this movie.

i watched it yesterday, don't worry
also, you're kinda spoiling by referring to my rather general example of a trope

 

[CaviarMeths]

A lot of complaints are against the middle boring part of the movie.

First 30 minutes are great, last 30 minutes are also good enough for an action movie.... but there's a good one hour thirty minute in the middle that is a big meh for most people. Totally knee capped the pacing of the movie.

I don't think it's a terrible movie, it's just a movie with a terrible, badly put together, overlong, horrible convoluted and dull first act. I think a lot of the reviewers couldn't get over that. 2nd act is great, 3rd act is pretty standard comicbook fare. They stuffed the takeoff not the landing.

This will be the most divisive movie until the next Zack Snyder movie.

 

[effzee]

The thing with marvel is that you actually don't need all the films before Avengers. The avengers first half is just introduction for each character then end climax. Many people I know didn't bother with rest of marvel films til the avengers came out

I've said this in like 100 threads now. I'm shocked by how wrapped up people are by the Avengers and as if it is the only way to ever make a movie with multiple characters. Which is even dumber when you look only into the recent past to see movies like LOTR and XMen1 succeed.

More than anything you need a competent director and a well done script. I don't think Avengers is amazing, and certainly not my fav superhero movie by a mile, but its well made, paced, and presented in a way that works. None of which has anything to do with the each individual origins movies before it.

Did those movies help build up hype? Yes! Excitement? Yes! Awareness? Of course!

But those factors help the box office return more than anything else. They didn't help make the Avengers into a good movie. If the script was bad or the direction complete shit, guess what? All those origin movies wouldn't mean shit and the reviews would have been bad.

So when people keep bringing up DC is going to fail because they do it 100% like Marvel, I am shocked. If BvS is bad, its cause the script, direction, and acting all add up to it being bad. Not because it didn't have origin stories. Audiences aren't dumb. They can be introduced to new characters and multiple new characters in one sitting without years and years of build up.

And what is DC going to fail at? Making money? I am pretty sure even with the bad reviews, the movie is going to make tons (especially with international gross factored in) and cross the all validating $B mark. Does that make it a good movie? How is success measured?

We have seen other bad movies, Transformers for example, make so much money they keep making more sequels while the reviews kill it. So BvS is as bad as the reviews claim, it will still make enough money, that for now DC and its extended plans aren't in peril.

Green Lantern was different. That movie bombed financially and critically. This won't bomb at the box office. And they still have time to fix the direction of the rest of the movies if they care for the movies to be critical darlings.

 

[Neoxon]

From what I'm hearing, the Extended Cut may fix some of the pacing issues. I'll pass final judgement for when I see this myself.

 

[Fliesen]

And what is DC going to fail at? Making money? I am pretty sure even with the bad reviews, the movie is going to make tons (especially with international gross factored in) and cross the all validating $B mark. Does that make it a good movie? How is success measured?

This movie is the foundation of a DC cinematic universe. If it fails to create fan trust and get people excited for said universe, i'd call that a failure. The MCU wouldn't be where it is today if the first 2 movies had been Thor 2 and Age of Ultron.

Generally, franchises get slightly worse the longer they're being milked. (People got Hobbit fatigue, Hunger Games fatigue, Divergent fatigue, ... even the MCU universe is like 50/50 hit-or-miss)
It's hard to keep a fire burning that wasn't burning that brightly to begin with.

 

[ArtHands]

Dont worry, they will continue the cinematic universe regardless of the movie quality.

Wonder Woman, SS production etc has started already

 

[CaviarMeths]

We have seen other bad movies, Transformers for example, make so much money they keep making more sequels while the reviews kill it. So BvS is as bad as the reviews claim, it will still make enough money, that for now DC and its extended plans aren't in peril.

There are actually far fewer criticproof movies than you imply. Unless your movie is called Transformers or Pirates of the Caribbean, it probably isn't going to make megabucks if it gets thrashed by critics. Even in the case of both of those, the highest grossing movie domestic was the 2nd, with the 3rd and 4th having heavy drop-offs. They only did as well worldwide because of the rapidly growing economies in foreign markets.

Also, all 3 Transformers sequels are in the bottom 15 of the century in terms of opening week/final gross ratio. Even "criticproof" movies have terrible legs.

We can't forget that Man of Steel... really wasn't that big of a hit. Especially considering its unprecedentedly colossal marketing campaign. It performed marginally better than Thor 2.

 

[Fliesen]

Dont worry, they will continue the cinematic universe regardless of the movie quality.

Wonder Woman, SS production etc has started already

continue, yes. But risky projects like the DC equivalent of Dr. Strange, Black Panther - hell - even Ant-Man, will never see the light of day.

We wouldn't have gotten the wonderfully charming heist movie that was Ant-Man if Avengers hadn't been such a huge commercial as well as critical success.

I don't think that DC would have the confidence of getting the 'niche' heroes right, if they already struggle to do the core heroes justice (... heh, justice)

 

[Kenzodielocke]

continue, yes. But risky projects like the DC equivalent of Dr. Strange, Black Panther - hell - even Ant-Man, will never see the light of day.

We wouldn't have gotten the wonderfully charming heist movie that was Ant-Man if Avengers hadn't been such a huge commercial as well as critical success.

I don't think that DC would have the confidence of getting the 'niche' heroes right, if they already struggle to do the core heroes justice (... heh, justice)

Nah, it entirely dependa on the budget. Not every DC movie will have 250m dollar budget.

 

[CaviarMeths]

continue, yes. But risky projects like the DC equivalent of Dr. Strange, Black Panther - hell - even Ant-Man, will never see the light of day.

We wouldn't have gotten the wonderfully charming heist movie that was Ant-Man if Avengers hadn't been such a huge commercial as well as critical success.

I don't think that DC would have the confidence of getting the 'niche' heroes right, if they already struggle to do the core heroes justice (... heh, justice)

Well, we just came off of nearly 40 years of Batman and Superman movies, rebooted a couple times each. What's another 40? We don't really need a Flash movie, do we?

:|

 

[Pop-O-Matic]

Dont worry, they will continue the cinematic universe regardless of the movie quality.

Wonder Woman, SS production etc has started already

Suicide Squad & Wonder Woman are too far along to jettison, yes. But, if BvS stumbles out of the gate, then you can be damned sure they're gonna put the filming on Justice League on hold at least until they can properly assess the damage BvS has done. And, if both SS & WW underpreform, then there's a good chance they might just abort the whole damned thing.

 

[Grazzt]

Just came back. It was bad...well, worse than I expected. MoS was better than this IMO.
The pacing was the biggest issue, the first one and half hour was so boring I saw some people took out their phones to play with, and I rarely saw this kind of behaviour in cinemas. And those

Spoiler

two dream scenes

were so strange, I don't know why they were there. 5.5/10

 

[ArtHands]

continue, yes. But risky projects like the DC equivalent of Dr. Strange, Black Panther - hell - even Ant-Man, will never see the light of day.

We wouldn't have gotten the wonderfully charming heist movie that was Ant-Man if Avengers hadn't been such a huge commercial as well as critical success.

I don't think that DC would have the confidence of getting the 'niche' heroes right, if they already struggle to do the core heroes justice (... heh, justice)

To be honest i don't see them taking risks on low-tier superheroes like Marvel at all like Guardians of the Galaxy or Inhumans etc. They will probably focus on salvaging the core JL members and also bank on spinoff characters like Suicide Squad or Teen Titans

 

[Busty]

Suicide Squad & Wonder Woman are too far along to jettison, yes. But, if BvS stumbles out of the gate, then you can be damned sure they're gonna put the filming on Justice League on hold at least until they can properly assess the damage BvS has done. And, if both SS & WW underpreform, then there's a good chance they might just abort the whole damned thing.

Justice League is too far along to just pull the plug on it. They have their UK production rebate set and I'm sure that Affleck and Snyder have 'pay or play' deals which means that even if WB were to pull the plug it would cost them at least $100m which is unthinkable.

 

[HeartlessNobody213]

Justice League won't be halted but I definitely believe there will be some changes that go on during production.

 

[Hystzen]

continue, yes. But risky projects like the DC equivalent of Dr. Strange, Black Panther - hell - even Ant-Man, will never see the light of day.

We wouldn't have gotten the wonderfully charming heist movie that was Ant-Man if Avengers hadn't been such a huge commercial as well as critical success.

It took Marvel 10 years before getting the balls to make Antman they had script for ages but didn't have guts to make it.

 

[boiled goose]

Man. Those comments to me show that Snyder is simply not that smart of a guy. He doesn't get what makes characters like Superman and Batman interesting.

He just wants dumb loud action and drama!

Heck look at what he did to watchmen. The only reason the movie isn't a complete stinker is because he followed the source material very closely, EXCEPT he changed the tone it went from goat to meh. Instead of the self aware criticism of superheroes and their silly fetishes he makes characters like the nightowl complete batman like bad asses.

He JUST DOESN'T GET IT.

 

[MattKeil]

Suicide Squad & Wonder Woman are too far along to jettison, yes. But, if BvS stumbles out of the gate, then you can be damned sure they're gonna put the filming on Justice League on hold at least until they can properly assess the damage BvS has done. And, if both SS & WW underpreform, then there's a good chance they might just abort the whole damned thing.

Justice League will still happen, but if BvS really stumbles on opening weekend and plummets on the second, WB might start the process of replacing Snyder on JL. If JL doesn't make Avengers/IM3 money, then I think they might pull the plug entirely and just make Batman movies.

Man. Those comments to me show that Snyder is simply not that smart of a guy. He doesn't get what makes characters like Superman and Batman interesting.

He just wants dumb loud action and drama!

Heck look at what he did to watchmen. The only reason the movie isn't a complete stinker is because he followed the source material very closely, EXCEPT he changed the tone it went from goat to meh. Instead of the self aware criticism of superheroes and their silly fetishes he makes characters like the nightowl complete batman like bad asses.

He JUST DOESN'T GET IT.

Every single creative or directorial choice Snyder has ever made in every single one of his movies comes down to a single phrase: "Wouldn't it be cool if..." There is no evidence of any more thought being put into anything beyond that.

 

[LiK]

Watchmen is the only Zack Snyder film I've seen, though Man of Steel is on my "well, eventually" backlog list. I'm just craning my neck for a better look at the train wreak as I drive by. It's fascinating.

Check out 300. Some real fantastic action scenes.

 

[Garlador]

Justice League is too far along to just pull the plug on it. They have their UK production rebate set and I'm sure that Affleck and Snyder have 'pay or play' deals which means that even if WB were to pull the plug it would cost them at least $100m which is unthinkable.

WB did this with Superman Lives and also lost a huge chunk of money on that aborted film.

 

[Plasticine]

Would WB be tempted to release the director cut to theaters to try and get a bit more money if week 2 has a huge drop off?

Is the director's cut being re-shot by Christopher Nolan?

 

[CaviarMeths]

WB did this with Superman Lives and also lost a huge chunk of money on that aborted film.

Yep, and that expense was absorbed into the budget of Superman Returns. Singer went over budget, but he didn't come anywhere near the $270mil figure that WB reported.

This thread is actually making me nostalgic. I might do a Superman 1/2/Returns marathon this weekend.

 

[Screaming Meat]

Heck look at what he did to watchmen. The only reason the movie isn't a complete stinker is because he followed the source material very closely, EXCEPT he changed the tone it went from goat to meh. Instead of the self aware criticism of superheroes and their silly fetishes he makes characters like the nightowl complete batman like bad asses.

He JUST DOESN'T GET IT.

He really doesn't. The real problem is that he thinks he does.

 

[okdakor]

To be honest i don't see them taking risks on low-tier superheroes

What about Cyborg ?

 

[TheSlySoul]

He just wants dumb loud action and drama!

Pretty much. Have no issues if he wants to have big action but the allure of Superman and Batman is how subtle they can be. Not everything has to be spectacle.

 

[SCULLIBUNDO]

Up until they actually started fighting... it wasn't bad. It wasn't great, but I was enjoying it for what it was. Then the film got really, really dumb.

And did Peter Jackson edit this thing or what? Lingering on the most pointless bullshit so often.

Anyway. I didn't hate it. It was certainly a lot more of an interesting mess than Man of Steel. But good fucking god did they not know when to stop.

Try just telling a clear, concise story. They more than had their cake. They gorged that motherfucker down.

 

[Busty]

WB did this with Superman Lives and also lost a huge chunk of money on that aborted film.

While this did happen the two situations are not directly comparable.

 

[justjohn]

Can't say I'm surprised really. You can usually feel how good a movie will be from the trailers, and none of the trailers did it for me. The more trailers they showed, the worse it got. I will still see it because I'm a huge fan of both characters but they really need to get rid of Snyder and bring someone else in before he ruins the rest.

 

[Sblargh]

Man. Those comments to me show that Snyder is simply not that smart of a guy. He doesn't get what makes characters like Superman and Batman interesting.

He just wants dumb loud action and drama!

Heck look at what he did to watchmen. The only reason the movie isn't a complete stinker is because he followed the source material very closely, EXCEPT he changed the tone it went from goat to meh. Instead of the self aware criticism of superheroes and their silly fetishes he makes characters like the nightowl complete batman like bad asses.

He JUST DOESN'T GET IT.

He is asking the philosophical why, the religious why, the political why.
It just so happens that the answer is always "because they are super violent people!"

 

[Fliesen]

i wonder if the general bad reception of the DC universe movies is also going to 'creatively' hurt future DC movies, beyond the budgetary.

I wonder if there's good actors who're going to decline being cast for a role in the DC franchises because they don't wanna be 'stuck' in that universe.

i wouldn't wanna be stuck on the same side of the fence as Jai Courtney, to be quite frank and i'm quite sure that, by now, Ryan Reynolds is super happy he was able to switch universes.

 

[Dash_Riprock]

While this did happen the two situations are not directly comparable.

WB's entire situation right now has never happened before (Sony's comes close but they always had Marvel to fall back on in case things went to shit, unlike WB). It'll be very interesting seeing what direction they take.

 

[ArtHands]

Man. Those comments to me show that Snyder is simply not that smart of a guy. He doesn't get what makes characters like Superman and Batman interesting.

He just wants dumb loud action and drama!

Heck look at what he did to watchmen. The only reason the movie isn't a complete stinker is because he followed the source material very closely, EXCEPT he changed the tone it went from goat to meh. Instead of the self aware criticism of superheroes and their silly fetishes he makes characters like the nightowl complete batman like bad asses.

He JUST DOESN'T GET IT.

I think the problem with this movie isnt loud action or drama. The main problem is that the movie is pretty disjointed and messy, and there are scenes which are not needed.

 

[Zzoram]

Hell no. Barring fant4stic which I never finished the thors are the worst superhero franchise out

I would be incredibly upset if I leave the theaters of this movie feeling like I did when I watched Thor

I'm pretty convinced I won't tho. I've read enough well reasoned reviews of this to know just what kind of trainwreck this film likely is and it certainly isn't the bland kind.

I liked the first Thor movie. Unfortunately, it made Loki a more sympathetic character than Thor himself.

 

[George Oscar Bluth II]

It all makes sense now.

Damn it, Cavill. You seemed like such a cool bloke.

I hope this is all just out of context to make him look bad. Wouldn't surprise me knowing the reputation of certain websites... Those quotes are pretty damning though.

Edit:

“I’m slightly wary of saying this, because it can be frowned upon, certainly by members of my community and people outside my community, but I’m not just doing this for the art. The money’s fantastic and that’s something which I deem — and again, it is frowned upon — very important.

“...You’ve got to enjoy life! I mean, you’ve got to. When I’m making money I’m spending it on nice stuff, whether that be lavish holidays for me and my friends or just seeing something and going in a shop and saying, ‘Yeah, I want that for the house,’ I’m buying it. Spending money on my friends, buying dinner for everyone, drinks for everyone, it’s a nice place to be, and I like people to feel cared for.

“People will be calling me a cock as they’re reading this, but travel’s great as long as you’re going first class. I mean, traveling to New Zealand in economy, it sucks. Especially if you’re over six feet. But first class? I’m not going to ever pretend to be coy about that. I love it.”

Well, there's no problem with this.

“If a girl shouts something like ‘Oi love, fancy a shag?’ to me as I walk past, I do sometimes wonder how she’d feel if a builder said that to her,” he told the Sunday Times Style magazine. “Although I wouldn’t feel physically threatened, as she might.”

Uh... Huh.

"I honestly believe that every year there are people passed over who should have been nominated, and that there are people who shouldn't have been nominated who are. And I don't think anything has ever changed in that respect…But, that said, this year in particular, there seems to be a serious lack of black guys and girls being nominated."

“Maybe the solution is to have more diversity in the members. But does that mean we are saying that to have more black academy members would result in more black nominations? Is that not racist itself?”

Dang it, Cavill.

 

[Blade30]

i wonder if the general bad reception of the DC universe movies is also going to 'creatively' hurt future DC movies, beyond the budgetary.

I wonder if there's good actors who're going to decline being cast for a role in the DC franchises because they don't wanna be 'stuck' in that universe..

Well I do feel bad about Affleck since this is his second major portrayal of a superhero in a movie and even though he was good in the movie, the movie itself not so much.

 

[gamz]

Well I do feel bad about Affleck since this is his second major portrayal of a superhero in a movie and even though he was good in the movie, the movie itself not so much.

Don't feel bad. He's a two time oscar winner and his batman is getting raves.

 

[Dash_Riprock]

It all makes sense now.

So he took the role just for the money? What a surprise, I'm sure the vast majority of superhero actors do the same.

That Catcalling comment and the Oscars comment, though...

Edit: Whoops nevermind, wrong actor