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[Octavianus]

Saw this just now, my dad really wanted to see it and I didn't have the heart to tell him I didn't want to go.

It's pretty pretty pretty bad. Some of the fight scenes were ok I guess but I hated everything else.
I think he hated it too as he was really quiete on the drive back home.

 

[Jack Remington]

Yeah, that Phantom Menace comparison is totally off base.

I'm really not seeing any people who are clearly trying to convince themselves the movie was good.

You're coming off as super elitist here, Garlador, not sure if that's your intention.

 

[AlteredBeast]

I think this time, however, the "against" crowd are the loudest voices. I am seeing posta on GAF and around the Internet where people are calling other people imbeciles for liking the movie.

 

[entremet]

Zack fucking Snyder.

Good God do I hate his vision for this universe.

 

[diaspora]

I usually don't agree with the "it ruins things retroactively" and I don't think Spidey does, but Mass Effect? You're goddamn right. I played ME1 7-8 times, I played ME2 three. I don't ever want to play it again, that is how much that universe is dead to me.

But the games were building to something from the start, and killed the entire universe by the end. Spiderman 3 for as bad as it was didn't do any of that.

But unlike ME1, ME3 is actually a good game even if the story went shithouse at the end, so it wouldn't make sense to say that it ruins anything.

 

[Alienous]

This is the most polarizing film ever,right? A good portion of people are seeing it for themselves and remarking about how much they enjoyed it. Another good portion are saying that Zack Snyder personally raped their childhood.

Just fascinating stuff that few people are coming out just saying "it was alright"

I find it uniquely bad. It isn't bad so much for being a awful movie, but for taking source material I really enjoy and doing a really poor job with it. Sure, the Batman v Superman fight was cool, but it was cooler when I read it in The Dark Knight Returns, or even watched it in the animated TDKR movie.

So as a movie, I'd probably watch this again before something like Thor 2, but it's still a hugely disappointing film, one that I don't have a great desire to see again outside of a few scenes that'll probably be on YouTube the week after home release, and one that I'd categorize as bad when I consider things like the botched character portrayals and messy story, which isn't helped by the film's poor editing.

 

[Dynedom]

This was a steaming pile. I couldn't find many redeeming qualities about it at all. It's like someone took 3 movies and stitched them together into a joyless mess. I agree that the editing destroyed whatever semblance of decency this movie had.

Someone please save the DCU from Snyder. Please.

 

[Dahbomb]

I thought I was in the spoiler thread and made some spoilerish statements lol.

 

[Dash_Riprock]

Honestly, this is giving me flashbacks to The Phantom Menace. A LOT of people saw it and came out of the theater praising it and getting upset with anyone who disagreed. Even most of the professional critics bought into the hype.

Only this time the critics weren't oversold on the hype and the internet age has made finding people who also disagree much easier and makes getting their voices heard much louder.

But I'm definitely reminded of The Phantom Menace from this film. So much hype riding on it, so many people who I've spoken to who don't "get" why it's bad or see any flaws, and also some people who can't acknowledge that some people really don't mind Jar-Jar Binks/Lex Luthor.

Lets not get crazy dude. Before RLM destroyed their argumnts prequel apologists were arguing that the PT was on par or better than the OT.

Even people who love BvS limit their arguments to "I was entertained immensely by it."

 

[Blader]

In Watchmen, they refer to Dr.Manhattan literally as 'The Superman'. That's interesting.
BVS even says 'The world is introduced to The Superman' on white background when the metropolis destruction scene starts. I thought that was very Watchmeny when I finished watching it.

Yeah, Snyder's take on the DC universe is very Watchmen influenced. I don't know if that's a result of doing a Watchmen movie before these other ones or that's just where his sensibilities naturally are.

My problem with that is... the DC universe isn't Watchmen. Superman isn't Dr. Manhattan. They're similar archetypes planted in different contexts, and I think trying to transplant one into the other undermines the point of both.

 

[inky]

But unlike ME1, ME3 is actually a good game even if the story went shithouse at the end, so it wouldn't make sense to say that it ruins anything.

Good game is debatable. I was never that invested with the mechanics in the first place. I mean, if you loved the shooting there's certainly a "good" multiplayer game in there for you. That was never the reason for liking this universe, just to have a F2P like horde mode experience. For me it was just serviceable.

Things like overhearing side missions, reusing mp maps as locations in wave based scenarios, turret sequences, some terrible side character missions, Chobot, the dumb galaxy map mini game, Kai Leng, all the stupid ptsd visions nonsense, galactic readiness crap, etc. drag it down. It's terribly inconsistent, and not the "everything's great but the ending" experience some people want to make it out to be.

It has some of the best sections in the trilogy, mostly character moments, but it doesn't save it from being the poorest entry in the series. I can certainly say with confidence that it ruined it for me because I can't stay invested in anything that happens anymore, and poor decisions along the way contribute to that. The ending is just the shit pit at the end of a long a pretty shit filled tunnel.

 

[Dai101]

Even people who love BvS limit their arguments to "I was entertained immensely by it."

Yeah, i also find that cutious. Most of the ones that disliked or outright HATED this have made all their points of their impresion, on the other hand you have guys with just a "i liked it".

 

[broncobuster]

I think this time, however, the "against" crowd are the loudest voices. I am seeing posta on GAF and around the Internet where people are calling other people imbeciles for liking the movie.

Observing neogaf alone, the against/hate crowd is small but loud. The love/great is small but quiet. Most fall in the it's okay/flawed camp. In fairness, a Batman Superman film shouldn't just be okay.

 

[maximum360]

Just saw it. Didn't love it, didn't hate it. I'd rank it somewhere below Iron Man 3, but above Green Lantern.

5/10

That's harsh. Iron Man 3 was terrible. I almost fell asleep during the movie [Iron Man 3].

 

[ultracal31]

Lets not get crazy dude. Before RLM destroyed their argumnts prequel apologists were arguing that the PT was on par or better than the OT.

Even people who love BvS limit their arguments to "I was entertained immensely by it."

Prequel apologists still defend the PT though. Even double down on it since Force Awakens came out.

I highly doubt we'll get a 108 page essay defending BvS

 

[call_kotaku]

if anything the only thing that really irks me about this whole situation is people fundamentally misunderstanding the role of critique and how opinions work

But alas, if this film does great for WB (it looks like it will) I think there's an interesting discussion to be had about the role filmmaking and film critique has on movies going forward, especially ones that are this big. You see it a lot in games, where a portion of the enjoyment people derive from any title is from the year-long hype cycle around release. Not just from participating in pre-release hype, but rather our actual enjoyment of games is amplified significantly by how much we've looked forward to playing them. I wonder if it's going to end up like that in movies, where post-credit stingers and teasing ensemble team-ups that build momentum for new releases years in advance make enjoying the payoff an inevitability. In that sort of world, does it matter how well the film is made according to the traditional filmmaking craft? Is BvS less the movie and more the 3 years of buildup leading to it? Could any movie with that sort of title and marketing foundation disappoint the people who matter?

 

[Firemind]

Observing neogaf alone, the against/hate crowd is small but loud. The love/great is small but quiet. Most fall in the it's okay/flawed camp. In fairness, a Batman Superman film shouldn't just be okay.

I thought TDK was okay and TDKR bad. This might be the best live-action Batman film released. It's just that a lot of people have problems with his and Clark's characterizations.

 

[Blader]

A lot of the time, the arguments tend to be, "Superman should be like this etc." Whereas to me, it's pretty clear he's headed to that point, but they're tackling other issues on the way there. And while it goes without saying others who may not read comics dislike this character, there are also plenty who do, so it's a bit of an empty statement to make. A lot of the grief I see online for him on this forum tends to compare him to the comics or what they feel his character should be.

He might be headed to that point, but I don't see him getting there as long as Snyder's in charge, if you know what I mean. I think Snyder is more interested in the younger, unsure of himself, despondent, broken Superman, the guy before he becomes the confident, inspiring, hopeful Superman -- because that's just the kind of character he prefers more. We've now had two movies where Superman isn't really Superman, he's the guy who will someday turn into Superman, and I don't see that suddenly changing for Justice League given everything we know about Snyder's superhero sensibilities over these movies and Watchmen.

 

[Verendus]

I have. I do comics for a living partially because I grew up on stuff like Superman and Batman. It might be egotistical to say, but I do believe I "get" Superman, and I know immediately when someone else doesn't.

Zack Snyder doesn't understand Superman. He gave us a guy with the same name, flying around in the same pajamas, using the same powers... but that's not what makes Superman who he is. It's why you can't just stick Jason Todd in Batman's costume and he'd be the same guy; it's why Wally West is a different breed of Flash than Barry Allen. The people UNDER the costumes, behind the powers, are what make them interesting and are what makes them heroic.

I did not see Superman in these films, and I've heard the excuse "Man of Steel was about Clark learning to become Superman" so many times that I'm sick of it, but I waited. I waited patiently. I wanted to see what this "non-Superman" in Man of Steel would become and, here we are, years later... and there was no payoff, no big plan behind Man of Steel. If anything, they doubled down on the problems I had with Clark in the first movie and amplified my issues tenfold.

Someone else already showed a scene in Captain America: The First Avenger where, in two minutes, we realize what kind of a hero Steve Rogers is, what drives him, what motivates him, and why he deserves to be a hero. TWO MINUTES.

I have now sat through FIVE HOURS of Snyder's version of Superman and, in over five hours, I have not seen "Superman" develop from any of it.

So why, tell me, should I have to wait through THREE films to see if Snyder, after around 7 and a half hours, finally "gets" Superman? Even if, miraculously, he pulls it off and "Superman" returns in the next film as the great, heroic, inspirational and aspirational hero he's always been for nigh-on eight decades straight, why should we have to endure all the awful mess preceding it? If you can't get your message across clearly in over five hours, you're probably screwing up. It's like Final Fantasy XIII fans telling me that the game "gets good after around 30 hours". The hell?! Why should I put up with 30 hours of crap just to get a peak at hypothetical goodness?

ESPECIALLY when these very same ideas you claim Snyder is trying to do have already been done, and done better, in other stories and other films in a fraction of the time. There's no shortage of Superman stories that explore his place in the world and his journey for acceptance of the world and his role in it, so why should I put my faith in Snyder's version after he's habitually and constantly demonstrated an acute and fatal misunderstanding of the most iconic superhero of all time?

Well, Man of Steel isn't about him learning to become Superman. It's about him accepting who he is and revealing himself to everyone. It doesn't resolve the implications of it all by the end of the movie, so I'd agree on that point, but it's not the one you're making. BvS is him learning what that means, both good and bad.

As for your final comments, that's honestly a bizarre thing to say. I haven't seen any Superman movies exploring this, so if you're referring to animated stuff or comics, that's kind of besides the point. I don't watch or read those, nor does 99.99% of the world. If you're saying these themes have been done better in different genre movies, so they shouldn't be tackled here, then why even watch these movies? They're mostly fluff anyway, so getting this upset about it is just weird. Especially because there are a limited number of stories to tell, and a limited number of themes to tackle. It doesn't stop millions of storytellers trying to tackle them in their own ways. You can't be elitist about it because that's just hilarious. A story isn't bad because it tries to explore those elements for longer than you want it to. It's bad if it's clunky about it, which you can certainly make the case for, but it's definitely not the angle most folks approach these movies from. It's also not the one you're approaching it from.

Your entire post is about him not "getting" Superman. It reminds me of folks who were dismissive about Nolan's Batman because that wasn't Batman apparently. The only difference is no one took them seriously because they're movies that are too critically and commercially lauded. It just reeks of idolization. It's like how folks are just irrationaly heated about Iron Man 3. And it's often because they're unhappy due to it treated their comics or whatever.

Edit:

He might be headed to that point, but I don't see him getting there as long as Snyder's in charge, if you know what I mean. I think Snyder is more interested in the younger, unsure of himself, despondent, broken Superman, the guy before he becomes the confident, inspiring, hopeful Superman -- because that's just the kind of character he prefers more. We've now had two movies where Superman isn't really Superman, he's the guy who will someday turn into Superman, and I don't see that suddenly changing for Justice League given everything we know about Snyder's superhero sensibilities over these movies and Watchmen.

He'll get there friend. It's a pretty obvious arc. Justice League will cap it off and he'll have reached that point by the end of it. Then some people will finally have the good guy Superman who has it all together, and we'll get past this stage of suffering for them. I'm sure Warner Bros. has learned one lesson from all of this though. Don't ever tackle this angle again.

 

[dancingphlower]

Alright friends, I'm going in. Wish me luck.

 

[Jack Remington]

Yeah, i also find that cutious. Most of the ones that disliked or outright HATED this have made all their points of their impresion, on the other hand you have guys with just a "i liked it".

I could give you a couple thousand words on it, if you wanted. Would prefer to see it one more time before doing so, just to consolidate my thoughts.

 

[DeathyBoy]

Lets not get crazy dude. Before RLM destroyed their argumnts prequel apologists were arguing that the PT was on par or better than the OT.

Even people who love BvS limit their arguments to "I was entertained immensely by it."

I'd go into a long spiel defending BvS beyond merely being entertaining, but it's not worth it. The anger to the film is hilariously salty at this point.

 

[moondoggerr]

I have. I do comics for a living partially because I grew up on stuff like Superman and Batman. It might be egotistical to say, but I do believe I "get" Superman, and I know immediately when someone else doesn't.

Zack Snyder doesn't understand Superman. He gave us a guy with the same name, flying around in the same pajamas, using the same powers... but that's not what makes Superman who he is. It's why you can't just stick Jason Todd in Batman's costume and he'd be the same guy; it's why Wally West is a different breed of Flash than Barry Allen. The people UNDER the costumes, behind the powers, are what make them interesting and are what makes them heroic.

I did not see Superman in these films, and I've heard the excuse "Man of Steel was about Clark learning to become Superman" so many times that I'm sick of it, but I waited. I waited patiently. I wanted to see what this "non-Superman" in Man of Steel would become and, here we are, years later... and there was no payoff, no big plan behind Man of Steel. If anything, they doubled down on the problems I had with Clark in the first movie and amplified my issues tenfold.

Someone else already showed a scene in Captain America: The First Avenger where, in two minutes, we realize what kind of a hero Steve Rogers is, what drives him, what motivates him, and why he deserves to be a hero. TWO MINUTES.

I have now sat through FIVE HOURS of Snyder's version of Superman and, in over five hours, I have not seen "Superman" develop from any of it.

So why, tell me, should I have to wait through THREE films to see if Snyder, after around 7 and a half hours, finally "gets" Superman? Even if, miraculously, he pulls it off and "Superman" returns in the next film as the great, heroic, inspirational and aspirational hero he's always been for nigh-on eight decades straight, why should we have to endure all the awful mess preceding it? If you can't get your message across clearly in over five hours, you're probably screwing up. It's like Final Fantasy XIII fans telling me that the game "gets good after around 30 hours". The hell?! Why should I put up with 30 hours of crap just to get a peak at hypothetical goodness?

ESPECIALLY when these very same ideas you claim Snyder is trying to do have already been done, and done better, in other stories and other films in a fraction of the time. There's no shortage of Superman stories that explore his place in the world and his journey for acceptance of the world and his role in it, so why should I put my faith in Snyder's version after he's habitually and constantly demonstrated an acute and fatal misunderstanding of the most iconic superhero of all time?

Amen. Agree a hundredfold.

 

[Scientist Supreme!]

I'd go into a long spiel defending BvS beyond merely being entertaining, but it's not worth it. The anger to the film is hilariously salty at this point.

Of what?
lol

 

[echoshifting]

This is the most polarizing film ever,right? A good portion of people are seeing it for themselves and remarking about how much they enjoyed it. Another good portion are saying that Zack Snyder personally raped their childhood.

Just fascinating stuff that few people are coming out just saying "it was alright"

Plenty of people are saying "it was just alright," at least in here.

 

[Wafflecakes]

I'd go into a long spiel defending BvS beyond merely being entertaining, but it's not worth it. The anger to the film is hilariously salty at this point.

Really? Yours is the saltiest post on this page.

 

[Mix Master]

How do we see the number of posts we have in a thread?

 

[CaviarMeths]

I could give you a couple thousand words on it, if you wanted. Would prefer to see it one more time before doing so, just to consolidate my thoughts.

1800 of those words would just be you repeating several times that you didn't like Iron Man 3.

 

[Alienous]

Alright friends, I'm going in. Wish me luck.

There isn't enough luck in the world.

 

[Dash_Riprock]

I'd go into a long spiel defending BvS beyond merely being entertaining, but it's not worth it. The anger to the film is hilariously salty at this point.

You won't because you can't. As with the PT, defending any aspect of the film other subjective "I was entertained" is impossible.

I could give you a couple thousand words on it, if you wanted. Would prefer to see it one more time before doing so, just to consolidate my thoughts.

If you can write this essay without mentioning Marvel once I will be very impressed.

 

[kobu]

I'd go into a long spiel defending BvS beyond merely being entertaining, but it's not worth it. The anger to the film is hilariously salty at this point.

Why wouldn't it be worth it? I hate when people do this shit. If you have valid points about the movie no one is going to tell you to fuck off.

Spoiler

I guess if spider-man kills people in civil war we're just going to tell everyone who is upset by it that they're salty.

 

[ibyea]

We're here for you.

I dunno about the hugs, though.

XD

 

[ultracal31]

Why wouldn't it be worth it? I hate when people do this shit. If you have valid points about the movie no one is going to tell you to fuck off.

Spoiler

I guess if spider-man kills people in civil war we're just going to tell everyone who is upset by it that they're salty.

This.

Its not like you're trying to defend say...the last Airbender. BvS at least has a few redeemable qualities

 

[echoshifting]

Why wouldn't it be worth it? I hate when people do this shit. If you have valid points about the movie no one is going to tell you to fuck off.

But driveby "lol haters" is so much easier!

 

[kswiston]

How do we see the number of posts we have in a thread?

Click on the post count next to the thread title on the Off-Topic board.

 

[mneuro]

It felt, to me, like the casting for Lex Luthor was a desperate attempt to recreate the dark knight joker casting. Everyone was surprised at Ledger back then, and that basically made the movie so great. Every scene of BvS with Luthor felt like "see guys, look we did it again. you never guessed Eisenberg would be so good." It didn't work this time and ruined the movie.

 

[Dahbomb]

It felt, to me, like the casting for Lex Luthor was a desperate attempt to recreate the dark knight joker casting. Everyone was surprised at Ledger back then, and that basically made the movie so great. Every scene of BvS with Luthor felt like "see guys, look we did it again. you never guessed Eisenberg would be so good." It didn't work this time and ruined the movie.

He even did the Joker's rendition of "I'm gonna tell you a story" with the "you know the oldest lie in America?"

 

[mneuro]

He even did the Joker's rendition of "I'm gonna tell you a story" with the "you know the oldest lie in America?"

Yep, I cringed when he said it.

 

[Dash_Riprock]

He even did the Joker's rendition of "I'm gonna tell you a story" with the "you know the oldest lie in America?"

I'm worried that this is what WB is gonna do with every DC film in the foreseeable future: Try to remake the Nolan trilogy again and again until it sticks.

 

[Dahbomb]

I'm worried that this is what WB is gonna do with every DC film in the foreseeable future: Try to remake the Nolan trilogy again and again until it sticks.

I don't know who said it... but the "Nolan trilogy was both the best and the worst thing to happen to the DCU" is a really accurate statement.

 

[jett]

I don't know who said it... but the "Nolan trilogy was both the best and the worst thing to happen to the DCU" is a really accurate statement.

That was so bad. It was like a parody.

Nolan might be the best and the worst thing that has happened to WB/DC in recent times.

Although I'm sure I'm not the first person to have said that.

 

[Auto-Reply]

...

Midnight Screenings - Dave and Sarah v Batman v Superman

Poor dave, dude is like he just got back from 'Nam

Did Sarah nearly broke into tears a few times there? ...if it's because of the movie then holy shit!

 

[Mix Master]

What is Jonah Nolan doing these days? Write him a black check if need be, Cause this ship needs to be righted with people who know what the fuck they're doing.

Edit

It feels like way too many people were expecting/wanting a cut and paste sterile TV Movie vibe Marvel job for DC.

I'm sorry put your post and many others in this thread show some immoral sense of insecurity that I have NEVER seen on Gaf like this before. Posts that just say "b-b-b- It's better than Iron Man, Or Thor or whatever else" people will compare this movie too. If this movie cannot stand up to it's own merits then it has failed out of the gate. If the only way to make this movie look good is to trash others than that is all I need to be told.

 

[tomtom94]

What is Jonah Nolan doing these days? Write him a black check if need be, Cause this ship needs to be righted with people who know what the fuck they're doing.

Presumably co-writing Dunkirk. Also doesn't he do TV work? I know Person of Interest got cancelled but I swear there's another show he helps run.

 

[BronsonLee]

Presumably co-writing Dunkirk. Also doesn't he do TV work? I know Person of Interest got cancelled but I swear there's another show he helps run.

He's busy fucking around with Waterworld and pissing off HBO

 

[TheSlySoul]

Did Sarah nearly broke into tears a few times there? ...if it's because of the movie then holy shit!

I think she was just tired or had allergies.
I get tears when my eyes are dry.
Sarah tends to not really get mad at anything from what I seen. Brad/Brian/Jake/Dave I seen get really emotional.

 

[Dash_Riprock]

He's busy fucking around with Waterworld and pissing off HBO

Don't you mean WESTworld?

Spoiler

Bastard you got my hopes up!

 

[echoshifting]

He's busy fucking around with Waterworld and pissing off HBO

Westworld

edit: DASH

 

[Malvingt2]

I just got home from watching this... I am so confused... I feel so empty...

 

[mreddie]

Batman v. Superman RT Thread: Home of the Sad Affleck