Hobbygaming
has been asked to post in 'Grounded' mode.
The point is that it's not just lower resolution, there are other compromises like RT it's either omitted on the XSS or it looks worse like in the case of Watchdogs Legions
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Can I be honest here...I don’t think the Xbox Series S is going to last very long into the generation.
- Thread starter Derktron
- Start date
Md Ray
Member
The developer works at a MS first-party studio, btw. These guys are the ones who'd be teaching/sharing knowledge with other devs how to implement SFS.
"How much memory is needed to run games at 1080p?"
There's no fixed amount of memory for every game at 1080p or 1440p or 4K. For example, two AAA games released on the same day -- one could be using 5GB at 1080p and the other could be using well over 7GB at the same 1080p.
Thirty7ven
Banned
Funny thing is one year on and sales aren’t picking up for the Series S, like at all, and it’s not doing anything worth mentioning in emerging markets either.
MS smartass decision to fuck over developers in hopes of a market grab has turned out to be another Sillicon Valley special.
MS smartass decision to fuck over developers in hopes of a market grab has turned out to be another Sillicon Valley special.
MrFunSocks
Banned
Just gotta hope the mods follow through with their warning and just ban all the fanboys in here console warring against the Series S. Without showing ignored content this thread is basically 5 posts per page for me haha.
THE DUCK
voted poster of the decade by bots
So if MS ends up selling 30 millions units of series S, some of which to people who would not have bought a console at a higher price, that somehow screws over developers? Last I checked they like to sell software.
THE DUCK
voted poster of the decade by bots
If you read the comments of people who actually own the machine, the vast majority can work with the size of the internal storage. I guess they should just return it because you say they should be unhappy with it and go buy a series X even though they have no issue. I have no issue with the size of the SSD on the series S for what I use it for.
THE DUCK
voted poster of the decade by bots
riiight, bethesda games haven`t been feature complete on consoles since the dawn of HD and Microsoft produces for Windows and forgets about their own console ecosystem.
And now you`re acting as if assets are the end all to game design....unfortunately asset creation and refinement are pretty far along the development chain and 10 minutes ago you literally didn`t even know there was something like asset scaling, so who are you trying to tell you`d even remotely understand what you`re talking about?
That basically dodges completely the fact that these games are made on PC and then a console version is made as an afterthought, which is the exact opposite of what you were stating that every game is designed with console in mind. Nice try.
I wasn't nor did I say that assets were the end all to game design, however you missed the point here again, that the assets are not designed for low resolutions. Just stop with the notion that games are developed with the lowest denominator as the lead platform - they lead with the most powerful platform and scale the game down.
Forza 5 would not be the game it is if that were the case. Yes of course they are still considering how to hide loading, level design, etc. as they have no choice, but they can diverge the two version to some extent. Your high horse is not that high.
Haggard
Banned
Wow, that is complete bullshit... Console version as an afterthought. What are you smoking......
The lowest common denominator always dictates the game design. That is simply how software design works, and not just in games....
so you are still going on about graphical scaling when everyone and their dog has talked about game design for 5 pages already, kudos for being able to simply ignore so much text and just write whatever pops into your head.... Is it actually too hard to understand that hardware limits go beyond graphical sliders?
To make it really...really... easy to understand:
there won't be games on the xsx that can't run on the xss, and there won't be any 3rd party games running on the PS5 that can't run on the xss either because that box is the lowest common denominator on which every game with all its game mechanics has to run.
And despite certain cretins thinking they know better than actual developers the hardware differences aren't simply cancelled out by lowering the graphical settings.....
We have the actual next gen machines struggling at 1440p with current gen games before we've even leveraged the new CPU and I/O beyond some prettier graphic effects.....
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THE DUCK
voted poster of the decade by bots
Not at all, when they started on flight sim, you can very clearly tell they were not thinking about consoles. I can't be blamed for you being in serious denial.
It's not me that can't understand the complexity of it, you've put yourself in a box and refuse to think outside of it. You saying that there won't be games that can't run on XSS is obvious, regardless of the position you take.
You act like programmers can't make changes other than "sliders". It's not hard to understand.
Thirty7ven
Banned
An Xbox Series X DE at 399$ would’ve been better for customers and developers alike.
Also, lol, 30 million series S, you on that pipe.
Haggard
Banned
You refer to that one example for the 20th time now simply because there barely are any noteworthy others and claim "others" are in denial.. kinda hilarious.
Game design is rarely ever scalable. Something like Bf2042 with different sized levels is already pretty exceptional.
We've had developers come forth about this and here we are with the armchair developers like yourself claiming they don't know what they're talking about...........
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THE DUCK
voted poster of the decade by bots
I would waste time finding more but you wouldn't get it anyhow.
If you say so, it must be so.......
Haggard
Banned
20 years of PC ports and then someone like you acts as if that never happened....... It's ridiculous
That you'd have to search should tell you something, but then that would require to actually think.
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THE DUCK
voted poster of the decade by bots
I agree that a X DE would have been nicer overall, but I don't think that would have allowed MS to target the audience it's after. I think you will be surprised at how well the S will sell at $249 or even $199 that it will eventually hit. 30 million isn't even that crazy. (they've probably sold a couple of million already, the sales will accelerate if price is dropped and they can meet demand)
THE DUCK
voted poster of the decade by bots
You keep making up stuff that was never said. Might as well end it here......it's ridiculous. You can't seem to even understand the basics of what I said.
Haggard
Banned
Your "basics" are ignoring the last 3 console generations. They are not hard to understand simply because they're horrendous nonsense.
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Hezekiah
Banned
I'm not deluded enough to pretend 364GB is fine, or that constantly moving games back and forth between the SSD and HDD isnt a pain in the arse. The real problem is that you're in your feelings about this and you're defending the Series S purely on the basis that it's Xbox. Pretending that every 'casual' just has three games over a generation, and/or that's it's a non-issue because you declare it so is a nonsense.
Again just repeating the same point. Xbox was massive here in the 360 era. Demand for the Series X is high here and it's constantly sold out. You know what isn't sold out and hasnt been for ages? I can write this down and post it to you if it will help you get it through that thick skull of yours. This really isn't complicated at all
. You just don't know anything about the European market - that's clear every time you post something in this thread.You're still running with this? 1440p support, and cloud saves outside of subscription? About 10 people in the world give a damn about this. 99.9% of gamers play on a TV. A lot of PC players hook their PCs to a TV too. How desperate are you to cling to this and talk about triggered when you've been getting emotional bringing a lot of additional nonsense into a thread specifically about the Series S, and being unable to accept that the hardware is unwanted in what is a big Xbox market, and vastly inferior to the Digital Edition PS5 despite being a mere £100 less. Smart delivery 'hur hur hur'?! Wtf is wrong with you, are you having an aneurysm while you post your console war bait lol. More talk about PS5 upgrades when it's not related to the thread topic. More deflection rubbish.
No idea why you're talking about who's winning what. I've just stated what's obvious to anybody who doesn't have their head buried in the sand regarding the Series S. You're obsessed about Xbox Vs Playstation and can't make a logical analysis of the console because you feel the need to 'protect' your favourite brand. Let me give you a clue - your emotive defence isn't going to help sales of the Series S no matter how hard you try
.
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James Sawyer Ford
Member
So have you come around on Cross-Gen not holding anything back either? Similar arguments could be made, and obviously, there's a spectrum based on titles we have seen.
The thing with XSS is that it may not hold back XSX, but it could be a case where it just becomes more of an afterthought and isn't well optimized. Not a big deal for XSX owners, but could piss off those that got an XSS. We saw that with some titles on base Xbox One or PS4 vs Pro/X versions. Eventually the less capable hardware started getting significant concessions in performance that they never used to have previously.
delirium trigger
Member
Considering it looks like it's going to take 3+ years to get games that even come close to taking advantage of the next gen consoles this might not have been that bad of a purchase.
Hoddi
Member
You aren't wrong but this is kinda true of all three systems. I haven't exactly escaped moving games on my PS5 just as I have on my XSS.
I don't really have any strong opinion on this but I think people worry too much about that memory capacity. There was a bigger difference between the PS360 and the Wii U and yet most of their games looked fairly identical. And those didn't face a 4x increase in resolution on top of everything else.
I fully expect some cutbacks though.
S0ULZB0URNE
Member
Good point.
twilo99
Member
In many ways the S is more interesting as a project than the X because its pushing the boundaries of what can be done with a console at a low price.
Just look at the power draw for that thing, its super low for the amount of graphical output you get from it, and by proxy overall entertainment.
I really think they are still ~$50 over on the price tho.. if they can get this thing down to $249 would be great, $199 price tag would be amazing but I don't think that's really possible for this holiday season, maybe next year.
Just look at the power draw for that thing, its super low for the amount of graphical output you get from it, and by proxy overall entertainment.
I really think they are still ~$50 over on the price tho.. if they can get this thing down to $249 would be great, $199 price tag would be amazing but I don't think that's really possible for this holiday season, maybe next year.
SlimySnake
Flashless at the Golden Globes
I am ok with the xss getting an inferior experience. You get what you pay for and people who bought it knew what they were buying. IF they feel they were shortchanged by MS, they can take it up with MS. I am just happy that XSX, PS5 and PC versions of games like Avatar wont be held back. Just like Doom and Witcher 3 getting ported to Switch didnt hold back the PS4/PC/X1 versions. Devs will downport and make compromises on the xss.
As for cross gen, games are being up ported. Not downported. God of war for example, looks like a PS4 game up ported to the PS5. Flight sim on the xss is downported from the xsx version which itself was downported from the PC version. That's why I was still holding out hope that GoW would look next gen even if the gameplay wouldnt take advantage of the new CPU, the IO secret sauce and the SSD. At the very least, they could have done a big graphical overhaul a la Horizon Forbidden West and Forza Horizon 5, but they seem to be doing none of that.
Several examples of cross gen done right are games like Rise of Tomb Raider, Black Ops 3 and CoD Advanced Warfare. They were designed with ps4 and x1 graphics in mind, and then ported down by other studios.
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Kagey K
Banned
How many Series S consoles were sold vs series X?
How many of each has been produced so far?
I already know you don’t have those answers, and you assume the same series S you see now is the same one that was there last week, but this is a lot of assuming without much information.
Tell us YOY how the sales splits have broke down, between the S and the X.
RainblowDash
Gold Member
I think it's doing well for how it's marketed as.
It'll be a staple for a long time.
It'll be a staple for a long time.
Kagey K
Banned
I think a bunch of people that thought it was easy to find now are going to regret not buying it when they saw it.
If that was the console they had thier eye on.
Things are about to get super scarce again.
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THE DUCK
voted poster of the decade by bots
I'd pay good money to know:
What price ms intended to launch the series S at, and how long they expected it to be there.
I feel like they intended to launch at $249 but the market allowed them to go to $299 as everything was selling out no matter what.
I also think they were thinking about 2024 when ps5 and series X are $399, and they position the S at $199. It may be along time before we know what the plan really was.
What price ms intended to launch the series S at, and how long they expected it to be there.
I feel like they intended to launch at $249 but the market allowed them to go to $299 as everything was selling out no matter what.
I also think they were thinking about 2024 when ps5 and series X are $399, and they position the S at $199. It may be along time before we know what the plan really was.
Could you link us to the sales figures? Since so far they seem to be missing in this thread.
Riky
$MSFT
Let's see these figures then.
Riky
$MSFT
It started at £249 here in the UK which was great value, when they get to £199 it will be an impulse buy for a lot of people.
Be interesting to see if they can produce any different designs over time also.
I have both X and S and I love them both. My X stays in the living room with a 65" 120 VRR TV, my S I bring it with me everywhere. At home my kids are using it, but when I travel I bring it with me. It is a gorgeous little thing. So easy and small to bring it along when I travel.
I am more surprised over the S than X. Right now I am playing Watch Dogs Legion 60 fps on the S and after playing first on X then on S it amazes me how gorgeous it looks. Most of the games that are X/S Optimized, looks gorgeous on them both.
I am thinking about getting a another S in the house so kids/friends can play along. It is a truly outstanding console, look’s gorgeous and so easy to bring along.
Games should be 60/120fps on the X with 1440p and same on S with 1080p.
I love my S
I am more surprised over the S than X. Right now I am playing Watch Dogs Legion 60 fps on the S and after playing first on X then on S it amazes me how gorgeous it looks. Most of the games that are X/S Optimized, looks gorgeous on them both.
I am thinking about getting a another S in the house so kids/friends can play along. It is a truly outstanding console, look’s gorgeous and so easy to bring along.
Games should be 60/120fps on the X with 1440p and same on S with 1080p.
I love my S
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Schmick
Member
I'm glad you like your S. Reading through this thread I've seen a lot of positive views towards the S. The majority of negative views though seem to be coming from people who, if you have been around GAF long enough to recognise people (and their alliances), there are no surprises they would be negative towards it.
The Series S is the 7th best seller currently at Amazon.uk. Seems to be doing just fine.
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Haggard
Banned
That would however be best case for gamers overall, imho. The less developers take pity on the most budget budget box the more they can do on the higher end option.
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It is truly best console I ever had. I had gaming laptop and stationary computer with best hardware up to nvidia 2080Ti and gave it up. With lots of traveling and just want to play games on my spare time I switched over to consoles. I had lots of consoles before and was very familiar with them all. Everything from Microsoft, Sony and Nintendo but I always kept going back to PC.
Since I got my X and S I never looked back. Outstanding and gives me all what I want.
Series S is so damn fine to bring along. Looks so sexy and it fits everywhere to hotel rooms, gf apartment and everywhere I go. Games looks gorgeous and it is a truly the best console it is for its price and entertainment.
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SkylineRKR
Member
At some points I agree. But PS5 DE is just 100 bucks more and ofcourse offers far more horsepower and more storage. its pound for pound a better deal. But I can't look past the compact design of the S, personally i'm all over it. Its absolutely fascinating that this company once designed the unreliable and loud Xbox 360.
But some things are just in Sony's DNA, and are jarring compared to MS in general. Like the lack of Quick Resume, the cards were cool idea but I forget cycling through them or going to them at all, I barely use them (I liked them for Astrobot and that was the last time lol). Generally the PS5 boots up slower from rest mode, and then the game doesn't instantly begin. Its slower for sure. PS5 also kicks you out of the game if you want to change system level settings. HDMI CEC is broken on PS5, it either powers off or on everything or nothing. I just disabled it. Works perfect on Series.
I had my S 2 weeks prior and it did stole some thunder from PS5 since it was fast already and has some things Sony doesn't offer in general. Another thing Sony didn't do right ofcourse is legacy games. No PS3 gen for ya, unless you pay up and stream.
PS5 also makes more noise. The Series S is the most silent console I've ever owned since the era of 3D gaming.
Fat Frog
I advertised for Google Stadia
I was joking (little finger/war/ashes).
I don't care about the Xbox VS PS5 stuffs hu hu hu.
But if you ask me ? I'll choose the Xbox BC library over the "horse power" of the PS5 digital.
SkylineRKR
Member
Nothing beats a quick round of NG2 thats for sure. And I can load up Orta on Series S. Hell, I bought Infinite Undiscovery months ago and yet have to boot it. I never played and always wanted to. I did finish Lost Odyssey this spring though. If I ever want to go back to Soul Calibur 2 or something, I can always play it on Xbox. Tough luck on Playstation 4 or 5.
I was never that much into BC and the primary focus should be new games but with all this cross gen going on and slow first year the BC option is pretty good. Some time ago I downloaded PD Zero, which was my first 360 game, just for that nostalgia kick (the game is trash I know). Those things are possible on Xbox.
I was never that much into BC and the primary focus should be new games but with all this cross gen going on and slow first year the BC option is pretty good. Some time ago I downloaded PD Zero, which was my first 360 game, just for that nostalgia kick (the game is trash I know). Those things are possible on Xbox.
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Y0ssarian
Banned
Do people still play perfect dark zero online multiplayer? I'd be down for that
Orta
Banned
Apologies for going off topic, is there any way/process of getting my physical og Xbox games onto a series s (I don't have one btw)?
Can they be ripped to a hdd on a different xbox console and registered to an Xbox live account or something like that?
I'd love to see some of my og stuff get a facelift.
Can they be ripped to a hdd on a different xbox console and registered to an Xbox live account or something like that?
I'd love to see some of my og stuff get a facelift.
Riky
$MSFT
No, you'd still need a digital licence for the game tied to your account.
Orta
Banned
So re-purchase them from the digital Microsoft store then?
Billbofet
Member
Pretty much. I have converted to 95% digital and I always take my disc games and sell them when the digital price is lower than physical.
Just keep an eye out for sales.
Hobbygaming
has been asked to post in 'Grounded' mode.
I don't think this is correct. It makes more sense to start at the lowest common denominator and build your game around it then adding more bells and whistles for the premium console. Imagine developing a game for the XSX then finding out you can't scale back enough to get it running on the XSS without severe compromises
Magnific0giganticus
Banned
The afterthought where they get the larger bulk of their sales. Lmao. You don't know what you're saying. Leave the thread and stop embarrassing yourself. To suggest the games are not developed from the very conception of them for consoles, where there's a much larger true installed-base of potential gamers and where all those publishers sell bucketloads more copies than on PC, it shows how embarrassingly ignorant you are.
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MrFunSocks
Banned
What you’re missing is that lower spec PCs exist. PC is the lower and upper bounds, not consoles.
The S is more powerful than a large percentage of the “gaming” PCs out there.
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Hobbygaming
has been asked to post in 'Grounded' mode.
That proves my point even more. You don't want to start developing a game around the Xbox Series X specs then have to get it to run on the lowest capable PC rig
PC and the XSS will be the baseline for the XSX the majority of the time then they will scale up from those