Codeblew
Member
well according to Albert it's 218 and been verified by people in his office.And that 204 is wrong.
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I didn't know PR departments ran benchmarks. MS may have something here.
well according to Albert it's 218 and been verified by people in his office.And that 204 is wrong.
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Long time reader, first time poster...I'm going to preface this post by saying that I am not pulling for either platform to be a clear winner, I am going to purchase both because gaming is my hobby and both will have exclusives worth playing.
This forth coming console 'war' won't be decided on stats alone, Microsoft, for better or worse has much more they can gamble on their console winning. One of their chips that they have played which I haven't seen discussed here is the fact that Windows 8.1 and the X1 will have exclusive rights to future (directx 11.2 and beyond). I see the first few years of this cycle going like this: developers make ps3/xbox 360 versions, they make a PC version which gets ported to next gen. Here is a quote from DICE:
Frostbite 3 Supports DirectX 11.1 API – Faster GPU/CPU Performance on PCs and Xbox One
Now this is the interesting bit, DICE confirms that the Frostbite 3 engine supports DirectX 11.1 API as revealed by DSOGaming.
“We use DX11.1, there are some optimizations in it (constant buffer offsets, dynamic buffers as SRVs) that we got in to the the API that improves CPU performance in our rendering when one runs with DX11.1. This will be in BF4.”
This means that PC and Xbox One versions of Battlefield 4 would be more optimized than PlayStation 4.
The API's in the beginning will be a huge player in early next gen content regardless of power...even though there has been comments of SONY's libraries being better developed these are the same software engineers who couldn't make cross game chat in their last OS. Developers have been programming next gen(beyond ps3/360 capability) content on PC's for the last 6 years and they have been doing it with directX as the primary library.
They both have their strengths and they both have their weaknesses, they both will have gems that will most likely be titles developed exclusively for their respective console.
You're probably right...but there's something important to keep in mind. "More efficient" is a comparison, which impels the question "More efficient compared to what?"According to all of them yes the esram and system with dedicated hardware chips...all combine to lead me to believe that it HAS THE POTENTIAL TO POSSIBLY be more efficient than many are expecting.
You're probably right...but there's something important to keep in mind. "More efficient" is a comparison, which impels the question "More efficient compared to what?"
Because compared to a hypothetical One without eSRAM or the dedicated processors, Microsoft's current design will indeed be far more efficient. But compared to a PS4, the eSRAM has the exact opposite effect: it makes the One less efficient. That's because developers must manage the memory architecture in ways that aren't required on Sony's machine.
This isn't purely a theoretical, on-paper claim either; we have real-world numbers that support it. Regarding the memory system, the PS4 has a max bandwidth of 176 GB/s. The Oddworld devs recently said they're actually seeing "around 172 GB/s", which is ~97% efficiency. The One has a max bandwidth of 204 GB/s, and Microsoft said certain operations can actually hit 133 GB/s, which is ~65% efficiency.
Once the dev tools are ironed out, I think we'll see some One graphics that'll really surprise cynical doubters. But that's not because One is more efficient than PS4; it's because some people's expectations are too low.
Tricking people isn't really that hard and they don't even have to trick everybody. They just have to trick enough to get some momentum and marketshare shifted in their favor. And they don't have to bribe every AAA publisher, just certain publishers for key titles. Functionally it would be little different than the exclusive DLC packages both they and Sony already pay for which are arguably just as ineffective, yet they both still pay for them.Yeah, it would be.
In order for Microsoft to trick people into thinking that the consoles are equal in power they would have to bribe almost every AAA publisher. Only bribing EA and Activision while Ubisoft, 2K games, Bethesda, Square Enix, and Capcom are consistently releasing better looking ps4 versions won't trick anyone. Not only that, but the power difference will become easily apparent when Sony first party developers start getting used to the hardware.
It would be much easier and cheaper for Microsoft to let the ps4 versions of games have better AA and a higher resolution and then try to downplay that difference with broad PR statements when questioned about it. And then talk about gameplay, blockbuster experiences, and Halo when questioned about first party differences.
Firstly, welcome.
Secondly, post a source when you post direct quotes. Thirdly, your justification in diminishing the credibility of those devs that have stated the PS4's tools are currently more mature than the Xbox One's is that they couldn't make cross game chat in their last game? Really? Sony themselves couldn't get cross game chat to work on their system properly (stated reason being a lack of available ram), and they have some of the best talent in the industry.
I was under the impression there was a PS4 tech slide deck that showed PS4 supported DX11.2?
Edit: Perhaps I was thinking of DX11.1
as I said. DX11.1 is win8 exclusive...
dont think BF4 will utilize DX11.1 though just 11.0.
We use DX11.1, there are some optimizations in it (constant buffer offsets, dynamic buffers as SRVs) that we got in to the the API that improves CPU performance in our rendering when one runs with DX11.1. This will be in BF4.
Long time reader, first time poster...I'm going to preface this post by saying that I am not pulling for either platform to be a clear winner, I am going to purchase both because gaming is my hobby and both will have exclusives worth playing.
This forth coming console 'war' won't be decided on stats alone, Microsoft, for better or worse has much more they can gamble on their console winning. One of their chips that they have played which I haven't seen discussed here is the fact that Windows 8.1 and the X1 will have exclusive rights to future (directx 11.2 and beyond). I see the first few years of this cycle going like this: developers make ps3/xbox 360 versions, they make a PC version which gets ported to next gen. Here is a quote from DICE:
Frostbite 3 Supports DirectX 11.1 API Faster GPU/CPU Performance on PCs and Xbox One
Now this is the interesting bit, DICE confirms that the Frostbite 3 engine supports DirectX 11.1 API as revealed by DSOGaming.
We use DX11.1, there are some optimizations in it (constant buffer offsets, dynamic buffers as SRVs) that we got in to the the API that improves CPU performance in our rendering when one runs with DX11.1. This will be in BF4.
This means that PC and Xbox One versions of Battlefield 4 would be more optimized than PlayStation 4.
The API's in the beginning will be a huge player in early next gen content regardless of power...even though there has been comments of SONY's libraries being better developed these are the same software engineers who couldn't make cross game chat in their last OS. Developers have been programming next gen(beyond ps3/360 capability) content on PC's for the last 6 years and they have been doing it with directX as the primary library.
They both have their strengths and they both have their weaknesses, they both will have gems that will most likely be titles developed exclusively for their respective console.
They have to be able to trick the people who would notice those differences (people like us). And tricking a gamer who knows about the power difference and follows news regarding it won't be tricked into thinking the consoles are the same power wise by a small percentage of games looking the same on both consoles.Tricking people isn't really that hard and they don't even have to trick everybody. They just have to trick enough to get some momentum and marketshare shifted in their favor. And they don't have to bribe every AAA publisher, just certain publishers for key titles. Functionally it would be little different than the exclusive DLC packages both they and Sony already pay for which are arguably just as ineffective, yet they both still pay for them.
HA found the source. It seems this line "This means that PC and Xbox One versions of Battlefield 4 would be more optimized than PlayStation 4. " was NOT part of the quote but added latter.. Lol I wonder why lol
GAF>Internet > GAF
http://www.dsogaming.com/news/battl...e-dx11-1-dx11-1-will-improve-cpu-performance/
This is why....this is why...lol.
First post here and he's already spreading FUD. Le sigh....
Third party devs will develop their IP to look similar to protect their own interests, not the platform holders, and to make sure they dont alienate one side or other. Differences will be slight, mostly resolution stretches, framerate locks or other subjectives. This is done at design/preprod to develop your scenes with this is mind and use graphical effects to maximise its look/impact. Think GOW3.
The MOST important aspect is the time taken to produce your basic complete - Faster complete means more time to polish, add extras etc. Will MS have direct control? Unlikely, even at the most pro-MS studios. There are too many tech-savvy fans out there and studios need all the goodwill they can get.
HA found the source.
It seems this line "This means that PC and Xbox One versions of Battlefield 4 would be more optimized than PlayStation 4. " was NOT part of the quote but added latter..
Lol I wonder why lol
So I'm not that technical but what does it mean for the PS4 exactly?
PS4 supports DX11.1 and the important parts that make up DX11.2 but not the standard itself?
So I'm not that technical but what does it mean for the PS4 exactly?
PS4 supports DX11.1 and the important parts that make up DX11.2 but not the standard itself?
...snip...
The API's in the beginning will be a huge player in early next gen content regardless of power...even though there has been comments of SONY's libraries being better developed these are the same software engineers who couldn't make cross game chat in their last OS. Developers have been programming next gen(beyond ps3/360 capability) content on PC's for the last 6 years and they have been doing it with directX as the primary library.
...snip...
Actually what is it with the sudden juniors spreading misinformation in this thread? I'm a fairly new member too of course but still...
Actually what is it with the sudden juniors spreading misinformation in this thread? I'm a fairly new member too of course but still...
THIS!!!!! Notice how the juniors who spread misinformation & FUD are all Pro-Xbox.I'm guessing they are the troops that signed up after the PS4 specs was shown to be more powerful than the Xbox One & all the other stuff that was going on with the new consoles & they was on the outside looking in as the good PS4 news spread & the bad Xbox One news spread & they just wanted to get in to fight the good fight because in their minds Neogaf is filled with Sony fanboys when really that's not the case it's just that Sony happen to be doing things a lot better than MS with the new consoles so far, and since they can't fight using the truth they take any misinformation they can find & try to use it to even things up.
I'm guessing they are the troops that signed up after the PS4 specs was shown to be more powerful than the Xbox One & all the other stuff that was going on with the new consoles & they was on the outside looking in as the good PS4 news spread & the bad Xbox One news spread & they just wanted to get in to fight the good fight because in their minds Neogaf is filled with Sony fanboys when really that's not the case it's just that Sony happen to be doing things a lot better than MS with the new consoles so far, and since they can't fight using the truth they take any misinformation they can find & try to use it to even things up.
So I'm not that technical but what does it mean for the PS4 exactly?
PS4 supports DX11.1 and the important parts that make up DX11.2 but not the standard itself?
This is something i've been noticing for months.
wasn't bish complaining about recent juniors too?
On a side note, this thread has nearly half a million views....WTH.
No, that's not who they have to trick, but it's beside the point anyway since the argument isn't about whether the strategy is effective or not but whether companies regularly engage in bad judgment that might lead to ineffective strategies . Are your really going to argue to the contrary? There's no conspiracy theory on that count.They have to be able to trick the people who would notice those differences (people like us). And tricking a gamer who knows about the power difference and follows news regarding it won't be tricked into thinking the consoles are the same power wise by a small percentage of games looking the same on both consoles.
Third party devs will develop their IP to look similar to protect their own interests, not the platform holders, and to make sure they dont alienate one side or other. Differences will be slight, mostly resolution stretches, framerate locks or other subjectives. This is done at design/preprod to develop your scenes with this is mind and use graphical effects to maximise its look/impact. Think GOW3.
The MOST important aspect is the time taken to produce your basic complete - Faster complete means more time to polish, add extras etc. Will MS have direct control? Unlikely, even at the most pro-MS studios. There are too many tech-savvy fans out there and studios need all the goodwill they can get.
PS4 has some sort of DX 11.2 feature set. As shown by this image from their recent development conference.
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But they're really pushing their own shader language too, PSSL which supposedly has features and advantages over the others.
Anyone can engage in bad judgement. Does that mean we should assume that they are always using bad judgement?No, that's not who they have to trick, but it's beside the point anyway since the argument isn't about whether the strategy is effective or not but whether companies regularly engage in bad judgment that might lead to ineffective strategies . Are your really going to argue to the contrary? There's no conspiracy theory on that count.
Thanks that was the slide I was thinking of
So we have yet to see what that really means but Sony is clearly aware of DX11.2 and won't lose any advantages of it, it would seem
The PSSL sounds interesting as I've heard it discussed before
I suppose at the end of the day the word coming from Devs is the most telling and that's been all positive thus far
It is how neogaf made money, sell abandoned member accounts to the marketing people.This is something i've been noticing for months.
Well, that was quick.Jackel7406
Banned
(Yesterday, 10:55 PM)
There is info about P4 PSSL in this PDF.
http://www.gdcvault.com/play/1019252/PlayStation-Shading-Language-for
I posted some of the images from the PDF in another thread
http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showpost.php?p=82256025&postcount=104
So I'm not that technical but what does it mean for the PS4 exactly?
PS4 supports DX11.1 and the important parts that make up DX11.2 but not the standard itself?
Actually what is it with the sudden juniors spreading misinformation in this thread? I'm a fairly new member too of course but still...
THIS!!!!! Notice how the juniors who spread misinformation & FUD are all Pro-Xbox.
The API's in the beginning will be a huge player in early next gen content regardless of power...even though there has been comments of SONY's libraries being better developed these are the same software engineers who couldn't make cross game chat in their last OS. Developers have been programming next gen(beyond ps3/360 capability) content on PC's for the last 6 years and they have been doing it with directX as the primary library.
Dude lasted one post! Is that a new record?Well, that was quick.Jackel7406
Banned
(Yesterday, 10:55 PM)
The crossgame chats was a ram split issues. They hadn't reserved enough for the OS to make it work. Either they had to trim their already bare OS features or break games that used the entire allotment.
Ugh, I still remember how long it took to get the menu up during game when hitting the PS button, Sony went quite a ways with their OS over the PS3 life span, and they were quite aware of users wanting CGC.
They had to officially state that it just wasn't possible given the PS3's RAM allotment for the OS, which was unfortunate.
Ugh, I still remember how long it took to get the menu up during game when hitting the PS button, Sony went quite a ways with their OS over the PS3 life span, and they were quite aware of users wanting CGC.
They had to officially state that it just wasn't possible given the PS3's RAM allotment for the OS, which was unfortunate.
http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/2011-08-19-why-the-ps3-cant-do-cross-game-voice-chat
Well, that was quick.Jackel7406
Banned
(Yesterday, 10:55 PM)
There is info about P4 PSSL in this PDF.
http://www.gdcvault.com/play/1019252/PlayStation-Shading-Language-for
I posted some of the images from the PDF in another thread
http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showpost.php?p=82256025&postcount=104
We're only arguing because you misinterpreted what I said in the first place. I wasn't arguing whether MS is paying anyone off, just that you don't need a conspiracy theory to account for the possibility that they (or anyone else) are.Anyone can engage in bad judgement. Does that mean we should assume that they are always using bad judgement?
Either way, Gopher has spoken. And it sounds like Microsoft isn't paying pubs to gimp ps4 multiplatforms. So I have no idea why we are still arguing.
Kindly knock off the hive-minding / console warrior B.S., our latest batch of juniors are, shall I say, a diverse potpourri that seem to have no particular leaning in their groupthink, I can promise you that![]()
Now I want to know if there are any zero post bans.Dude lasted one post! Is that a new record?
Oh you fancy, huh.Kindly knock off the hive-minding / console warrior B.S., our latest batch of juniors are, shall I say, a diverse potpourri that seem to have no particular leaning in their groupthink, I can promise you that![]()