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Fighting Games Weekly | March 3-9 | Edition Edition

D

Dahbomb

Member
Conceited said:
Oh cool, so Alioune has to fight Xian and then Sanford.
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That's a really weird rule change... because then Infiltration would have to had played Mike Ross/FChamp last season.

Not that I mind but they should be more consistent with their ruleset.
 
chriskun

chriskun

Member
Deckard Cain said:
Anyone who is against edition select being tournament standard is a scrub. SF will always have top tiers and bad match ups cause that's how the character archtypes are built. Ultra SFIV will have it's Cammy and Akuma. Top Tiers and Top players will still dominate. So who cares if past powerful characters come back? Vanilla SFIV was the funnest version of SF because of how strong everyone was. You guys love Marvel and 3S so much yet you deny SFIV the very thing that makes those games fun and entertaining . The knowledge that the match could turn on it's head instantly from a poor decision or a great one.
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I don't like it when people bring up the "there will always be top tiers" argument because it's not a question of if there will be top tiers, but rather how spread apart the tiers are. Is the tier spread S+ to F or A to C. The goal is there not to be characters that are S and especially not S+, as in the case with Yun in AE or arguably Cammy/Akuma in 2012.
 
K

kirblar

Member
I love heavily matchup-based games. They allow for someone to overcome a general skill deficit through counter-picking or exploiting a knowledge gap. If we wanted all 5-5s we'd play Chess.
That's a really weird rule change... because then Infiltration would have to had played Mike Ross/FChamp last season.

Not that I mind but they should be more consistent with their ruleset.
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It's a good way to get more episodes out of it as well as making each Fight Night self-contained.
 
D

Dahbomb

Member
Chavelo said:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5QJ0SJaRTnY

NLBC/TeamSpooky vs House of Crack.... possibly no more UMVC3 there anymore.

:(
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FtocM.jpg



ROSE BOWL ON ESGN!!!!!
 
T

Tik-Tok

Member
casperOne said:
I've reached out to SRK to see what the licensing is. The aggregate data isn't worth anything, it's the individual entries that are the real meat of things.

That said, if the raw data is available, it would be a good starting point for something like this.

And, I just got the data. Working on importing it.
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Missed this post, but you are the man!

I know it's a lot of database work but it would be cool if you made it so you could customize the data to show you stuff like time frames, specific tournaments, top 32/16/8/Winners/Losers/Grand Finals.

If you're really ambitious you could have some sort of feature that searched youtube for the videos of the specific matches.
 
B

BakedYams

Slayer of Combofiends
Chavelo said:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5QJ0SJaRTnY

NLBC/TeamSpooky vs House of Crack.... possibly no more UMVC3 there anymore.

:(
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jbug617 said:
Spooky letting it be known if players don't show up this week they are going to drop Marvel from NLBC. He also spoke about the rumors that the players from House of Crack might be boycotting Next Level.

https://www.youtube.com/embed/5QJ0SJaRTnY
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This is crazy. I don't even know what to say. The only reason I don't go to NL is cause its a 2 hour train ride from place. Way too far for some Marvel and SF. Don't either go to HOC cause around my area, being out at 2 in the morning means you want to get robbed. Justin Wong knows whats up when he said he doesn't wanna be in the Bronx past 12.
 
B

Beckx

Member
Did Vampire Chronicle for Matching Service have the edition select for online play?

I know that Chaos Tower was based on that version and has edition select for characters, but haven't gotten around to picking up VC yet.
 
K

kirblar

Member
Parallax Scroll said:
I wasn't aware of any actual next level boycott, just less people showing up recently.
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Like, who wants to play a game they always lose at? SF's matchups/more approachable skill curve make it a much friendlier game to learn. I wish we could get Project MvC3 some day.
 
O

Omega

Banned
Parallax Scroll said:
I wasn't aware of any actual next level boycott, just less people showing up recently.
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Players will probably say they're not boycotting, but there was an increase in $5 (i think I heard one of them say) to play and people were using that as an excuse.

If you can't afford $5 extra to enjoy your hobby you need to find your ass a new hobby or something.

but that's not the real reason and everyone knows it
 
E

enzo_gt

tagged by Blackace
kirblar said:
Like, who wants to play a game they always lose at? SF's matchups/more approachable skill curve make it a much friendlier game to learn. I wish we could get Project MvC3 some day.
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So how does this apply to all those people who have been playing forever Chris-or-not or all the new jacks that started while Chris was dominating and still showed up to Next Level?

Omega Rex said:
Players will probably say they're not boycotting, but there was an increase in $5 (i think I heard one of them say) to play and people were using that as an excuse.

If you can't afford $5 extra to enjoy your hobby you need to find your ass a new hobby or something.

but that's not the real reason and everyone knows it
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That's a pretty legit reason, if you're not from the silver spoon. Which it seems like much of the FGC isn't.
 
S

SloaneRisette

Member
kirblar said:
Like, who wants to play a game they always lose at? SF's matchups/more approachable skill curve make it a much friendlier game to learn. I wish we could get Project MvC3 some day.
Click to expand...

Isn't the whole point of fighting games to play more and get better even if you may lose?

Because shit I must be doing things wrong.
 
D

Dahbomb

Member
kirblar said:
Like, who wants to play a game they always lose at? SF's matchups/more approachable skill curve make it a much friendlier game to learn. I wish we could get Project MvC3 some day.
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That's the dumbest thing I have heard all day.

I mean the first part was dumb enough but then you added the project MVC3 line. A project MVC3 would make it even harder for people to win. All those Zero/Vergil/Missiles players who get their scumbag wins would have to work much harder in a more normalized game.
 
K

kirblar

Member
So how does this apply to all those people who have been playing forever Chris-or-not or all the new jacks that started while Chris was dominating and still showed up to Next Level?
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People play for different reasons. You can get away with more stuf/discover things with a newer/rebalanced game. Problem is that it doesn't last, and you need a refresh to keep the game growing. Like in business, growth is life. If you're not growing your scene/game, it's dying, and Marvel, unfortunately, is hitting that phase. People who love it and can hang to some degree will still play. We're just in the "inexorable decline" part at this part. Hopefully whatever their next-gen IP is will fill the hole (All-Stars, VS, MvC4) and keep that part of Capcom's scene growing.
Isn't the whole point of fighting games to play more and get better even if you may lose?

Because shit I must be doing things wrong.
Click to expand...
You can get better, but the list of BS/tricks that you can leverage ahead of the people who are fundamentally stronger (reaction times, etc.) diminishes over time. It's why balance updates help so much- blowing up the world gives you that discovery phase again when a game's progressed into maturity.
 
D

Deckard Cain

Banned
chriskun said:
I don't like it when people bring up the "there will always be top tiers" argument because it's not a question of if there will be top tiers, but rather how spread apart the tiers are. Is the tier spread S+ to F or A to C. The goal is there not to be characters that are S and especially not S+, as in the case with Yun in AE or arguably Cammy/Akuma in 2012.
Click to expand...

Like I said the character archtypes of SF will make it so that will always happen. Every version of SFIV has had S Ranked characters. Funny thing is orignal SFIV had the most. Viper, Seth, Gen, Rufus, Balrog, Sagat, Akuma, Ryu, and Gief were all ridiculously strong. Why not add in even more S tier characters so people can actually have fun and varity in the S tier. I want to see strong characters vs strong characters. Not weak characters vs weak characters.
 
A

alstein

Member
Trying to make everyone S tier will result in some chars no longer being S tier, and perhaps some ending up S+/SS/Kokonoe.
 
B

BakedYams

Slayer of Combofiends
Omega Rex said:
Players will probably say they're not boycotting, but there was an increase in $5 (i think I heard one of them say) to play and people were using that as an excuse.

If you can't afford $5 extra to enjoy your hobby you need to find your ass a new hobby or something.

but that's not the real reason and everyone knows it
Click to expand...

There are a multitude of reasons. The best players from the East live in the Bronx and Brooklyn is too far. However, I find it odd that there is beef between Spooky and the rest of the guys since they all looked like they were having fun... Maybe it was all smoke and mirrors to the monsters.

Smedwicks said:
Isn't the whole point of fighting games to play more and get better even if you may lose?

Because shit I must be doing things wrong.
Click to expand...

You just realized that you're doing things wrong?

mesmerMAN said:
what the hell i got banned from chat? i only posted PogChamp
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That's twitch for ya.
 
K

kirblar

Member
Deckard Cain said:
Like I said the character archtypes of SF will make it so that will always happen. Every version of SFIV has had S Ranked characters. Funny thing is orignal SFIV had the most. Viper, Seth, Gen, Rufus, Balrog, Sagat, Akuma, Ryu, and Gief were all ridiculously strong. Why not add in even more S tier characters so people can actually have fun and varity in the S tier. I want to see strong characters vs strong characters. Not weak characters vs weak characters.
Click to expand...
You realize that all Tier Lists are relative, right? There will always be a "best" character on paper, simply because there's no way to make 5-5 matchups across the board, but if they're all close enough, it starts becoming more of a metagame/personal choice issue than anything else.
That's the dumbest thing I have heard all day.

I mean the first part was dumb enough but then you added the project MVC3 line. A project MVC3 would make it even harder for people to win. All those Zero/Vergil/Missiles players who get their scumbag wins would have to work much harder in a more normalized game.
Click to expand...
The games are their most exciting/fun in the discovery phase. See: KUSORU! When the game's pretty much figured out, you lose the ability to level people with out-of-nowhere BS. That's when you grab all the dice and shake up the boggle cube again.
 
D

Deckard Cain

Banned
alstein said:
Trying to make everyone S tier will result in some chars no longer being S tier, and perhaps some ending up S+/SS/Kokonoe.
Click to expand...

So all of a sudden previously used characters are going to turn into Kokonoe? We know what these characters are capable of already man. They are not some out of the box broken dlc crap.
 
D

Dahbomb

Member
You can get better, but the list of BS/tricks that you can leverage ahead of the people who are fundamentally stronger (reaction times, etc.) diminishes over time. It's why balance updates help so much- blowing up the world gives you that discovery phase again when a game's progressed into maturity.
Click to expand...
You act like a balance patch is a full game reset/rework. It's not... the skills/knowledge you learned in one version carry over to the next. Beginners will always be at a disadvantage... the players with more knowledge and experience will win.

People act like if they released a Marvel update tomorrow your average joe will have a higher chance of winning... yea right. The Justin Wongs, ChrisGs, FChamps would still stomp everyone.


The games are their most exciting/fun in the discovery phase. See: KUSORU! When the game's pretty much figured out, you lose the ability to level people with out-of-nowhere BS. That's when you grab all the dice and shake up the boggle cube again.
Click to expand...
In one post you state that you don't like how extra BS/tricks are used by long time players to beat fundamentally strong players which is the reason why people are leaving the game...

... and then in another post you say that BS/tricks are good for the game because it allow some people to win the game due to others having lack of knowledge about said BS/tricks.

So what do you have to say about yesterday's Apologyman win who put the first major win for Firebrand/Skrull on the board? Was that a good thing or a bad thing? Because I can't tell anymore.
 
K

kirblar

Member
Dahbomb said:
You act like a balance patch is a full game reset/rework. It's not... the skills/knowledge you learned in one version carry over to the next. Beginners will always be at a disadvantage... the players with more knowledge and experience will win.

People act like if they released a Marvel update tomorrow your average joe will have a higher chance of winning... yea right. The Justin Wongs, ChrisGs, FChamps would still stomp everyone.
Click to expand...
Oh, of course. But it still gives you that Senor Taxi chance to do it. You will always lose players over time. You have to work to attract newbies and retain current ones and entice older ones to come back.
 
D

Deckard Cain

Banned
kirblar said:
You realize that all Tier Lists are relative, right? There will always be a "best" character on paper, simply because there's no way to make 5-5 matchups across the board, but if they're all close enough, it starts becoming more of a metagame/personal choice issue than anything else.

The games are their most exciting/fun in the discovery phase. See: KUSORU! When the game's pretty much figured out, you lose the ability to level people with out-of-nowhere BS. That's when you grab all the dice and shake up the boggle cube again.
Click to expand...

Balance is overrated & SFIV will never be balanced so why bother? Fundimentally it's not possible. Again, I'd rather see a clash of Titans any day over two children slap fighting.

I want to see everyone at Maximum power and potential, Daigo with SFIV Ryu, vs. Mago with AE Fe Long, vs. Kazunoko with AE Yun, vs. Bonchan with SFIV Sagat, vs. Tokido and Infiltration with SFIV Akuma, vs. Poongko with SFIV Seth, vs. Justin and Ricku with SFIV Rufus, vs. PRRog with SFIV Balrog, vs. SnakeEyes with SFIV Gief, vs. Hitani with AE Makoto & so on and son.


Fuck the scrubs I wanna see the best at their best!
 
D

Dahbomb

Member
kirblar said:
Oh, of course. But it still gives you that Senor Taxi chance to do it. You will always lose players over time. You have to work to attract newbies and retain current ones and entice older ones to come back.
Click to expand...
So like Apologyman beating FChamp yesterday?

You can still have these moments when lesser players step up to the challenge. By most accounts, the "age of discovery" for the game is actually not over. I still saw new stuff at SCR in the game.

In any case... my point is that a low level player "always losing at a game" is not a legitimate reason for a game's continued decline. Bad players will lose, good players will win.. this is the circle of life in fighting games. Balance patches don't actually change this... they change what characters win, not what players.
 
P

Parallax Scroll

Banned
edition select could make for some good money matches.

Dahbomb said:
So like Apologyman beating FChamp yesterday?

You can still have these moments when lesser players step up to the challenge. By most accounts, the "age of discovery" for the game is actually not over. I still saw new stuff at SCR in the game.
Click to expand...

I had never seen that triple Zero TAC before.
 
K

kirblar

Member
In one post you state that you don't like how extra BS/tricks are used by long time players to beat fundamentally strong players which is the reason why people are leaving the game...
Click to expand...
Where did I say this? What I was saying is that the field gradually levels out over time. The tricks become known, the tech is universally adopted, etc. There are less and less unusual/new things to be found to blindside people with. Raw skill starts to matter more and more as the game progresses from Discover->Maturity. You of course can never reset it to Square one- experience carries over from game to game.

Apologyman winning was awesome. Games are more fun when "anyone can be killed."
 
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