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Graphical Fidelity I Expect This Gen

GymWolf

Member
I can't get enough of this stupid fucking game :lollipop_grinning_sweat:





Yeah you saw that right, it has dynamic skin hematomes if you hit with blunt force like handles, punches or kicks, and the hematoma get darker and blodier the more you hit the same part.

It's crazy how this indie game not even in early access has already better gore than 99,99% of games...
 
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Lootlord

Member
I can't get enough of this stupid fucking game :lollipop_grinning_sweat:





Yeah you saw that right, it has dynamic skin hematomes if you hit with blunt force like handles, punches or kicks, and the hematoma get darker and blodier the more you hit the same part.

It's crazy how this indie game not even in early access has already better gore than 99,99% of games...

You should play Dead Island 2 if you haven't already :D
 

SlimySnake

Flashless at the Golden Globes
Dude if yt does a disservice to shadows, it does the same to all the games you named, i think it's way to early to say that shadows is better than crimson desert etc.

After all the great looking ue5 AA games we had you really think that only a couple of games are gonna beat shadows in an entire year??

You are way too optimistic.

p.s. also, i heard at least one dude that was invited to the event that ubisoft let the youtubers use the highest quality capture card that is also used in hollywood(?) to capture the gameplay so what you see in some previews is actually an higher quality footage than you see usually for othe videogames (for yt standards)
Avowed, KC2, Crimson Desert, GoY, and Monster Hunter all look cross gen'ish like AC shadows.

I should clarify that im not saying it looks next gen like Avatar or Outlaws. Im simply saying it looks better than those other games. Marginally perhaps, but better to me. It could go either way when the games launch and i see them on my screen. UE5 games like Avowed dont preview well either so we shall see. Ive been wrong before..... I had cooled down a lot on Hellblade 2, Black Myth, Outlaws and had completely dismissed FF16, an so im not making any definitive statements. I just think they all look PS4.5ish like Ratchet, HFW and demon souls.
 

DanielG165

Member
NG2 Black has some of the more impressive hair simulation that I’ve seen. Alexei, the playable heroines, and the werewolf fiends all have really good and natural looking hair with great physics on top.

I believe the character models in the cutscenes and during gameplay are also the same, or least VERY close to sharing parity. I honestly can’t believe TN faithfully recreated this game in UE5, it runs as good as it does, looks close to really good CGI 98% of the time, and then shadow dropped it. I wonder just how long they’d been working on this?

Definitely the best looking game of the year so far.
 
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GymWolf

Member
You should play Dead Island 2 if you haven't already :D
I did, di2 with half sword are my favourite gore models in gaming.

But i'm more impressed by half sword for a number of reasons:

The damage model is focused on humans and humans are much more delicate than zombie so doing s realistic damage model where hitting a lung instead of another organ can change the blood loss or how much time you have before dying is harder than what they do in di2 where you just whack on resistant zombies and hitting the throat or the jaw or the top of the head change nothing.

Damage change your animations and the enemy animations, so even if di2 has bone breaking tech to some extent and zombies can't use their arms and legs aswell when you break their bones, it's nowhere near as complex as half sword where you have various stage of an arm not working, an hand not working, a knee not working, a foot not working and they are not gonna be able to Flail their weapons as efficently, blood loss make you weaker and you can't swing with much force the more blood you lose, a blunt hit to your head make your whole body woobly and blur your vision (blunt hits to the body gave a similar but minor effect) etc. Etc., by the end of a gruesome duel you can have 2 dudes barely walking and barely keeping their 2 handed weapon with one hand, it's EXTREMELY dynamic amd change the combat in ways that di2 can only dream of.


Althought di2 has better fidelity for gore and it doesn't glitch nearly as much (final game vs something that is free and not even in early access) the gore in half sword is much more dynamic, it barely has any fixed point so you can dinamically cut any part from any angle, you can even cut something small like feets depend on where you strike, it still has some wonky stuff like when you bisect a torse but i swear to god every time i think the system is not actually fully dinamic, i discover another possible cut angle that i never seen before so it is like 95% dynamic, 5% fixed.


This is not really relative to gore, but the game even has a realistic layered armour system where only some weapons can make a dent on a full plate armour and the dents are in real time and it's a fucking pleasure to see.

The sound design of the screams, anguish and gargle of death are on par or better than tlou2, and that game had the most realistic sound design when it comes to realistic violence, i have lower the volume or my neighbours can think that i'm actually torturing people that are asking to be spared :lollipop_grinning_sweat:


I know the game can look silly in videos because ALL the animations are dynamic and phisycs based but i don't think i ever played a melee game where killing people was more satisfying than this game, and i played for the past 35 years.

You even have nut kicks that can immediately ko someone

 
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Gonzito

Gold Member
Man, how can a triple A game have these graphics, the lighting is just horrendous lol

What a joke

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Alex11

Member
Posted this also in the PC thread, guess there the game is flawless, anyone know why the hair looks like complete ass vs. Remake? Is it because of DLSS and the game not being at native res?

These are at 4K max, DLSS, Dynamic Res max 100%, Dynamic Res min 66%, cutscene and gameplay:



This is Remake, also 4K max:

 

Lethal01

Member
Posted this also in the PC thread, guess there the game is flawless, anyone know why the hair looks like complete ass vs. Remake? Is it because of DLSS and the game not being at native res?

These are at 4K max, DLSS, Dynamic Res max 100%, Dynamic Res min 66%, cutscene and gameplay:



This is Remake, also 4K max:


yeah most obvious reasion it would look bad is REbirth being heavier in general making the dynamic resdrop lower causing worse quality hair, i dunno though.
 

Gonzito

Gold Member
I am also playing Rebirth on PS5, trying to finish it one last time, and I cant stop taking screenshots.

Bad screenshots that is lol

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I don't understand it, what happened to the lighting in this game? Everything looks so flat, the Remake looked much better. It doesn't make sense to me
 
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SlimySnake

Flashless at the Golden Globes
Man, how can a triple A game have these graphics, the lighting is just horrendous lol
How? The game is rated 93 on metacritic and was included in many GOTY lists, and DF's own GOTY video for best graphics of the year.

the industry on a whole, from developers to critics AND the audience have let it get to this point. We praise garbage. We reward complacency. Complacency in graphics, gameplay systems, and developer ambition. We trash games and developers who actually try and give us next gen visuals. Every week, we have an UE5 sucks ass thread on gaf. Thats why the forum and twitter melts down every time a game is announced to as requiring Ray traced compatible cards. Even though the technology is literally 6 years old by now. Because PC gamers are cheap and dont want to upgrade PCs and jump on guys like Todd howard who ask them to upgrade their 10 year old systems.

So yeah, that's how we got to this point.
 

PeteBull

Member
How? The game is rated 93 on metacritic and was included in many GOTY lists, and DF's own GOTY video for best graphics of the year.

the industry on a whole, from developers to critics AND the audience have let it get to this point. We praise garbage. We reward complacency. Complacency in graphics, gameplay systems, and developer ambition. We trash games and developers who actually try and give us next gen visuals. Every week, we have an UE5 sucks ass thread on gaf. Thats why the forum and twitter melts down every time a game is announced to as requiring Ray traced compatible cards. Even though the technology is literally 6 years old by now. Because PC gamers are cheap and dont want to upgrade PCs and jump on guys like Todd howard who ask them to upgrade their 10 year old systems.

So yeah, that's how we got to this point.
Game is great, just not a looker so i can understand metacritic scores/winning all kinds of rewards, definitely cant come to terms with DF praising it for the graphics tho, coz it simply isnt one of its strong points.
 

SlimySnake

Flashless at the Golden Globes
I don't understand it, what happened to the lighting in this game? Everything looks so flat, the Remake looked much better. It doesn't make sense to me
it's too big. Game is literally 100 hours long with 200 GB of locations. massive open worlds which actually dont look that bad in comparison to these linear indoor levels.

Baking in lighting is an expensive process. It's easier for linear games and you can have devs go in and place hidden lights in every single corridor, cave, and room. It just takes time because the baking process could take days if not weeks. At least according to insomniac who were able to reduce time to bake the whole city from weeks to just days thanks to engine optimizations.

These idiots also used their own streaming system instead of using UE4's which is partly why you see such poor LOD transitions and rock LODs. they are incompetent buffoons so its possible that they simply misused the UE4 engine.
 

Alex11

Member
I am also playing Rebirth on PS5, trying to finish it one last time, and I cant stop taking screenshots.

Bad screenshots that is lol

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Man, I thought you were joking when you said that it can look worse than what I've seen, Jesus.
This shit is horrendous, and it's not that I'm looking to get bad screens, it's everywhere you go, even the cutscenes are worse than Remake.






yeah most obvious reasion it would look bad is REbirth being heavier in general making the dynamic resdrop lower causing worse quality hair, i dunno though.
Yeah, I put Dynamic Res max and min both at 100% and it's much better, but that's no solution, can't run that, it's basically 4K DLAA then, no?
I mean isn't DLSS supposed to help reduce this grainy stuff?
 

SlimySnake

Flashless at the Golden Globes
Game is great, just not a looker so i can understand metacritic scores/winning all kinds of rewards, definitely cant come to terms with DF praising it for the graphics tho, coz it simply isnt one of its strong points.
Its great but 93 great?

besides, going back to this game after a year just opened my eyes to how many bullshit ubisoft style check box open world design. I am doing my third open world and it is literally identical to the first two. There are 5 different side missions. Each are repeated 5 times in every open world. One is a simple 3 QTE. The other has you memorize 5 QTEs. Third mission type is a small random combat encounter featuring 2-3 enemies. 4th is a tower climb. 5th is a moogle collector side mission you run behind 5 teddy bears until you catch them all.

That's it. Again, they are all repeated over 5 times in each area. I have never played a ubisoft game this bad. But we are in the praise anything Japanese phase while we trash ubisoft, sony and western studios for doing the same thing but with better visuals.
 

Myuni

Neo Member
Dying Light is now 10 years old.

I still love this game to this day and fondly remember when I played it at release on my 2GB VRAM GTX770 on a cold but sunny weekend.
If I had to describe Dying Light in one word, it would be 'Immersion'. The unique 1st person parkour system, atmospheric music/sfx, as well as the convincing graphics, which captured the stormy Mediterranean-like setting splendidly, got my hooked. :messenger_kissing_smiling: Harran :messenger_heart:

Except for some NPC-animations and low-res textures here and there, the visuals are still quite nice.
During gameplay, I even like the chromatic aberration, which, admittedly, doesn't look too good in static screenshots.

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Alex11

Member
Its great but 93 great?

besides, going back to this game after a year just opened my eyes to how many bullshit ubisoft style check box open world design. I am doing my third open world and it is literally identical to the first two. There are 5 different side missions. Each are repeated 5 times in every open world. One is a simple 3 QTE. The other has you memorize 5 QTEs. Third mission type is a small random combat encounter featuring 2-3 enemies. 4th is a tower climb. 5th is a moogle collector side mission you run behind 5 teddy bears until you catch them all.

That's it. Again, they are all repeated over 5 times in each area. I have never played a ubisoft game this bad. But we are in the praise anything Japanese phase while we trash ubisoft, sony and western studios for doing the same thing but with better visuals.
This is exactly how I feel playing this right now, can't believe it, I'm in Junon and everything is deja vu, the bad kind.

What irks me is that it could have truly deserved that score or even higher if the exploration was natural, more quality side quests instead of mini games, no unnecessary segments, like here in Junon, why would I ever need to have that dolphin mini game, slowly walk to that cabin, then hold the thumbstick to lower and -- cutscene between -- lift that ship and finally a 1 min CGI cutscene, Jesus Christ.
All while looking like this, guess they wanted to simulate the overexposure or whatever, but it's burning my eyes.

 

Gonzito

Gold Member
This is exactly how I feel playing this right now, can't believe it, I'm in Junon and everything is deja vu, the bad kind.

What irks me is that it could have truly deserved that score or even higher if the exploration was natural, more quality side quests instead of mini games, no unnecessary segments, like here in Junon, why would I ever need to have that dolphin mini game, slowly walk to that cabin, then hold the thumbstick to lower and -- cutscene between -- lift that ship and finally a 1 min CGI cutscene, Jesus Christ.
All while looking like this, guess they wanted to simulate the overexposure or whatever, but it's burning my eyes.


I think the game is great personally. I dont judge the game as a game itself, but the graphics are just unacceptable. There is so much uneven quality, some areas are great and look good. Others are atrocious, they almost feel unfinished.

I honestly dont think modders will be able to fix it, I hope I am wrong tho, but this version of UE4 does not have support for global illumination or raytracing so I dont see how this is fixable in the future
 

Gonzito

Gold Member
Also, dont forget 6+ year dev time.

I dont know why we have to make excuses for some devs.

I am not making excuses. But no matter how many devs they have now, I absolutely refuse to believe that these guys have the same amount of money, budget and resources as Sony, I think its plainly ridiculous to think this

These guys used Kickstarter to make the first game for god's sake
 
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SlimySnake

Flashless at the Golden Globes
I am not making excuses. But no matter how many devs they have now, I absolutely refuse to believe that these guys have the same amount of money, budget and resources as Sony, I think its plainly ridiculous to think this
Intergallatic is being made by 250 devs. SSM teams are also around 250 devs.

100 devs made Ghost of Tsushima and Days Gone. Bluepoint, Housemarque are also smaller sub 100 dev teams. only GG, Insomniac and nowadays SSM are approaching 400-500 devs but they all work on multiple projects.

At the end of the day, resources in video games = artists, engineers and developers + time. KC2 devs had 6+ years and the same amount of devs, and blew it.
 
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Gonzito

Gold Member
Intergallatic is being made by 250 devs. SSM teams are also around 250 devs.

100 devs made Ghost of Tsushima and Days Gone.

At the end of the day, resources in video games = artists, engineers and developers + time. KC2 devs had 6+ years and the same amount of devs, and blew it.

Man I think you a bit over dramatic no offense. The game looks incredible and its a rpg with a lot of depth, different outcomes, many different characters etc. For the type of game KCD2 is, it looks really good. You should compared it with games like Fallout, Starfield, Dragon Age, Baldurs Gate and Mass Effect. I think that the comparison and the point you made in your initial post is just not fair, because you cannot expect to have that level of quality with linear games like TLOU2.

I normally agree with you but on this point I think you are wrong papi
 
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SlimySnake

Flashless at the Golden Globes
Man I think you a bit over dramatic no offense. The game looks incredible and its a rpg with a lot of depth, different outcomes, many different characters etc. For the type of game KCD2 is, it looks really good. You should compared it with games like Fallout, Starfield, Dragon Age, Baldurs Gate and Mass Effect. I think that the comparison and the point you made in your initial post is just not fair, because you cannot expect to have that level of quality with linear games like TLOU2.

I normally agree with you but on this point I think you are wrong papi
not dramatic enough. the game is about to get released to a high metacritic, along with rave reviews by fans and massive steam concurrent users.

i think we should be harsher on these so-called industry darlings. especially when they phone in graphics like this. but thats just me.
 

SlimySnake

Flashless at the Golden Globes
MLB The show has dropped last gen support this year. (Still shipping on Nintendo Switch but thats a completely different version of the game)

We are also thrilled to announce that MLB The Show 25 will launch on March 18, 2025 on PlayStation 5, Xbox Series X|S, Nintendo Switch. The game will not be on platform subscription services in 2025. Early Access begins on March 14, 2025 for anyone who purchases the Digital Deluxe Edition.

I wonder if this means a big visual upgrade this year after 4 years of last gen visuals.

I am just glad i got to play the Konami UE5 baseball game. Not only is it a great fucking game, but the visuals are amazing.

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Hugare

Member
this shit is just depressing.

2025. Next Gen Exclusive.
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2020. last gen game.

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2019 last gen game.
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2018 last gen game.
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Calling Warhorse "lazy devs" for not being able to match TLOU Part II, DS and Detroit visuals is kinda ignorant

One was made by Naughty Dog, arguibly the most talented dev studio, with Sony's infinite money backing their project (not to mention their mocap studios), sharing tech with other Sony studios etc.

Same for DS: infinite Sony money, mocap studios, crazy good engine and experienced/talented devs,

Quantic Dreams have been focusing on human models for decades now. They were ahead of the curve since Heavy Rain and have been improving their tech ever since, more and more.

Games are more complex to make than they've ever been. There's no magic button on UE 5 (or any other engine) that devs can press to make games look good.

More and more we will have cases of new games being beaten graphically by older games, 'cause newer tech can only do so much to help developers to achieve good graphics.

Hell, in TLOU Part II there was a team only focused on ambient lighting. Nothing more. For 7 years.

This is also why RDR 2 is still one of the most beautiful open world games available. Forbbiden West "looks better", but doesn't have 10% of that game's attention to detail and overall ambience.

Kojima's tech for scanning actors must be way out of Warhorse's budget, for example.

You have to put all of this into perspective, imo
 
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SlimySnake

Flashless at the Golden Globes
Do you count the 250 sub-contracted artists ?
every single developer contracts out work to india, singapore and other third world studios. including warhorse.

they dont get to design the main character models. at best, they work on some pots and pans no one ever sees.

At the end of the day, its about talent. Some devs try. Others are lazy and phone in the visuals. Some devs are criticized for being lazy like the Star Wars outlaws devs last year. Some arent because they are in good standing with the gaming audience. I criticize them all regardless of their political stance.
 

Alexios

Cores, shaders and BIOS oh my!
"I'm an idiot 100% of the time, not just some times with my stupid accusations of laziness when something isn't made exactly how I want it to be made prioritizing exactly the things I deem important that should btw be apparent in every random thumbnail I may decide to pretend is all its best".
I can't get enough of this stupid fucking game :lollipop_grinning_sweat:





Yeah you saw that right, it has dynamic skin hematomes if you hit with blunt force like handles, punches or kicks, and the hematoma get darker and blodier the more you hit the same part.

It's crazy how this indie game not even in early access has already better gore than 99,99% of games...

Was excited for a sec (not because of graphics, it has attention to detail with the gore but that doesn't make the overall result next gen or anything) but I don't want a small scale fighting game.

The Mount & Blade studio should buy these guys to finally upgrade the combat engine, it's been largely the same game for aeons, cool as it was when the first game came out in its first betas...
 
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walter568

Neo Member
every single developer contracts out work to india, singapore and other third world studios. including warhorse.

they dont get to design the main character models. at best, they work on some pots and pans no one ever sees.

At the end of the day, its about talent. Some devs try. Others are lazy and phone in the visuals. Some devs are criticized for being lazy like the Star Wars outlaws devs last year. Some arent because they are in good standing with the gaming audience. I criticize them all regardless of their political stance.

I know independents who work on the main characters of AAA.
I dare to say it, it is mainly independents who make the main characters from big franchises.
I know big games whose characters are entirely made by independents... or cinématique contractors.

More than a question of talents, it's a question of time, therefore mainly of money to make quality.
And making realism takes a lot of time...

Stop your condescension dude, a little respect for developers, they are far from being lazy.
 

GymWolf

Member
Was excited for a sec (not because of graphics, it has attention to detail with the gore but that doesn't make the overall result next gen or anything) but I don't want a small scale fighting game.

The Mount & Blade studio should buy these guys to finally upgrade the combat engine, it's been largely the same game for aeons, cool as it was when the first game came out in its first betas...
Nah, the amount of physics in the game would make impossible making large scale battles, stuff like chivarly is nowhere near the level of physics of half sword, the devs asked veterans of the gaming industry if if it was possible and they got laughed in the face, even a 1vs1 online is gonna be a juggernaut task to include, unless they completely botch the physics, and the game is quite unique because of its physics.
I literally watched a dev interview some days ago, they know that they could make big ass money with a chivarly style or multyplayer but it is physically impossible for now, people are ready to throw money at this game.

They said that they are gonna make the game obviously much bigger with progressions, rpg elements, new arenas etc. But it always gonna stay a one vs one or just royal rumble with max 5 charas or like the demo with a roguelite experience.

The game has definitely some nextgen systems in play, you have to play to understand it, in a world where people throw the term nextgen for every little shit, this game fully deserve it just for trying to have their own euphoria engine or for the blood spill tech or damage system, it is frankly incredible for such a small project.

Don't even trust the video online, many people play with the damage slider changed so the enemy can sustain more damage than a normal human could ever be just for fun.
 
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Alexios

Cores, shaders and BIOS oh my!
Well I didn't mean it should be done in the multiplayer like Chivalry. I play M&B for the campaign. Nor that it should be exactly this with the hundreds of troops in a siege simulated in all that detail, though it could probably be reasonably close for those you personally engage with. M&B did a lot of simy stuff with its combat 15 years ago too with how trajectories and overall movement, on foot or on horse, affected the damage output etc., it just needs an upgrade already. I wouldn't mind if that also meant a reduction in the total troops, late game huge battles with multiple armies are a chore.
 
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SlimySnake

Flashless at the Golden Globes

SlimySnake

Flashless at the Golden Globes
Calling Warhorse "lazy devs" for not being able to match TLOU Part II, DS and Detroit visuals is kinda ignorant

One was made by Naughty Dog, arguibly the most talented dev studio, with Sony's infinite money backing their project (not to mention their mocap studios), sharing tech with other Sony studios etc.

Same for DS: infinite Sony money, mocap studios, crazy good engine and experienced/talented devs,

Quantic Dreams have been focusing on human models for decades now. They were ahead of the curve since Heavy Rain and have been improving their tech ever since, more and more.

Games are more complex to make than they've ever been. There's no magic button on UE 5 (or any other engine) that devs can press to make games look good.

More and more we will have cases of new games being beaten graphically by older games, 'cause newer tech can only do so much to help developers to achieve good graphics.

Hell, in TLOU Part II there was a team only focused on ambient lighting. Nothing more. For 7 years.

This is also why RDR 2 is still one of the most beautiful open world games available. Forbbiden West "looks better", but doesn't have 10% of that game's attention to detail and overall ambience.

Kojima's tech for scanning actors must be way out of Warhorse's budget, for example.

You have to put all of this into perspective, imo
I am not comparing KC2 to RDR2. RDR2 and GTA6 are one off games that take 5-7 years to make with the entire 3,000 person 7 studio strong teams.
I am comparing a 250 dev team to other similar and smaller studios.
I am comparing 6+ year dev cycles.
I am comparing last gen games designed around 1.8 tflops while this game is a next gen only game build around 10 tflops with RT capable consoles.
I am comparing cinematic games with a cinematic RPG that is full of mocapped cutscenes. Just like the first game.

Of course they have access to mocap. Have you played the first game? The cutscenes are massive and fully mocapped and animated. If anything, they are even bigger in the sequel. They just didnt do a great job updating the character models. The CG trailer they revealed just shows how dated it looks.

I never compared KC1 to Detroit or TLOU2 because that wouldve been unfair. But they have access to at least 7x more GPU power now. They are no longer a small kickstarter studio. They had 6+ years of dev time. They dont get to make excuses anymore.
 
not dramatic enough. the game is about to get released to a high metacritic, along with rave reviews by fans and massive steam concurrent users.

i think we should be harsher on these so-called industry darlings. especially when they phone in graphics like this. but thats just me.
Would you rather have a 100+ hour sprawling RPG, or a shorter, less ambitious title with cutting edge graphics? Studios have budgets, and unless you are Rockstar games or CDPR, you are going to have to find ways to balance everything. Gameplay>>>>>Graphics

Also, KCD2 is not a bad looking game at all. Pretty much every previewer has said the game looks damn good when playing
 
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