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Halo Lore Thread
- Thread starter Korten
- Start date
LordOfChaos
Member
That would be cool. And I'd like Chakas and the Lord of Admirals to come into play at some point, given the isoDidact connection.
Zvonimir Boban
Banned
So I've finished reading Cole Protocol and am just going through Evolutions right now. Should I get started on the Forerunner saga next or the Kilo-Five books?
GringoSuave89
Banned
want hard sci-fi? Forerunner trilogy. want black ops? Kilo-Five
Zvonimir Boban
Banned
I don't know what I want 
Mostly I wondered if there was a "correct" order but because they're set so far apart I guess it doesn't make any difference?
Mostly I wondered if there was a "correct" order but because they're set so far apart I guess it doesn't make any difference?
GringoSuave89
Banned
I don't know what I want
Mostly I wondered if there was a "correct" order but because they're set so far apart I guess it doesn't make any difference?
One is about as prequel as you can get, considering it happens thousands and thousands of years before Halo. Kilo-Five takes place after the war, before Halo 4, and the first book also picks up right after Ghosts of Onyx. So, whatever you want at this point.
Zvonimir Boban
Banned
Hmmm, might go with the Forerunner saga as a change of pace from everything else in that case.
Thanks dude.
Thanks dude.
GringoSuave89
Banned
Happy to assist!
WhiteRabbitEXE
Member
Good choice. The Forerunner Saga are probably my favorite books in the series. At the very least they're extremely close to the Nylund novels.
Kilo-Five's... alright. Lot of really great stuff, but a lot of not-so-great stuff too.
The Forerunner trilogy is much better than the Kilo-Five Trilogy. The Kilo-Five books are the Halo books I enjoyed the least. There are stuffs in it that move the overall Halo story forward but by and large, some of the characters are not very good. And its not really a sequel to GoO. It just informs us on the state of its characters and concludes the story in the first chapter or so.
Caayn
Member
Kilo-five are strange books. They tell an interesting story but lack something that I can't put my finger on. I like what Karin Traviss tried to do with the relationship between Naomi and Staffan but on the other side I don't like the shallowness of the books (you're either with us or you're against us, how everyone seems to view Halsey for example).
And to be honest I couldn't keep Vaz and Mal from each other, I kept mixing them up.
And to be honest I couldn't keep Vaz and Mal from each other, I kept mixing them up.
wesleyshark
Banned
There are so many new and excellent characters introduced in the Kilo-Five books, though.
BB
Osman
Naomi
Vaz
Mal
Jul M'dama
Requires Adjustment
Just to name a few...
The characters in and of themselves are not bad, its just that....the logic of their thinking and actions are....illogical to say the least.
wesleyshark
Banned
The Forerunner books will put Halo 4 into an entirely new context for you, as it sets up everything that brought the Ur-Didact to where he was when he's released by the Chief inadvertently.
There's a whole wealth if information in those books which foreshadow what's to come in the next few Halo games, as well. They are very, very good.
The Kilo-Five books help bridge the gap between Halo 3, Ghosts of Onyx and Halo 4. It's focused on a secret ONI mission being ran by a rag tag group of various characters. They help establish the rift between ONI and the UNSC, and lay down a lot of backbone for just how far ONI will go to achieve their own means to an end. It'll come back into play for Halo 5, when they setup Locke with his mission to track down Chief.
Halo: Broken Circle is focused on the political and cultural disparity within the Prophets, and how that led to their eventual collapse as the Convenant fell apart. It also gives a lot of cultural insight on the Sanghelli as well. It's a great read.
Honestly, don't believe the hate or the hype, here on GAF. Read them for yourself and decide what you will.
Captain Zyrain
Member
Finally broke down and bought & read "Halo: New Blood" yesterday. I figured it'd be released in print with another book down the line.. but after the new trailers over the weekend I couldn't wait any longer...
Not sure if I need spoiler tags or not but I will anyway.
Not sure if I need spoiler tags or not but I will anyway.
Wow! Loved all the call-backs and references. Glad they tied up a lot of loose ends as well.
The pacing and structure was a little hard to get into at first. until I figured out it was basically just him rambling his story. Would have made an amazing Audio Book with Nathan Fillion!
Definitely seems like Romeo & Buck could be two of the Spartans with Locke in the H2A trailer, especially with Buck's ongoing ONI ties w/ Dare.
It was curious at the end, as Musa and the rest were really pushing hard that Spartan IV's are better all-around people/soldiers/etc than Spartan II's (& III's I guess), since they were "heroes" already, and then became Spartans.
I am guessing this will be the theme presented going forward? On it's face it seems profoundly wrong to me, considering all the SII's did and died for, but in the end I suppose there is some truth to it, the SII''s (& III's) were manufactured weapons created with a singular purpose.
That being said, I can't see John-117 ever deviating from being the protector of Earth and all her colonies no matter the cost.
The pacing and structure was a little hard to get into at first. until I figured out it was basically just him rambling his story. Would have made an amazing Audio Book with Nathan Fillion!
Definitely seems like Romeo & Buck could be two of the Spartans with Locke in the H2A trailer, especially with Buck's ongoing ONI ties w/ Dare.
It was curious at the end, as Musa and the rest were really pushing hard that Spartan IV's are better all-around people/soldiers/etc than Spartan II's (& III's I guess), since they were "heroes" already, and then became Spartans.
I am guessing this will be the theme presented going forward? On it's face it seems profoundly wrong to me, considering all the SII's did and died for, but in the end I suppose there is some truth to it, the SII''s (& III's) were manufactured weapons created with a singular purpose.
That being said, I can't see John-117 ever deviating from being the protector of Earth and all her colonies no matter the cost.
MrGreencastle
Member
Haven't read new blood yet. What about Dare? There is a pink visor (not that I wouldn't rock a pink visor) and I mean, it would kind of retroactively explain why she wore a Mjolnir recon helmet way back when in ODST. Early field testing for ONI Spartan IV?
Just think how stacked Halo 5 would be with all those characters. Steve Downes, Mike Colter, Nathan Fillion, Tricia Helfer, Nolan North... And of course Jen Taylor as Dr. Halsey.
Just think how stacked Halo 5 would be with all those characters. Steve Downes, Mike Colter, Nathan Fillion, Tricia Helfer, Nolan North... And of course Jen Taylor as Dr. Halsey.
Captain Zyrain
Member
Oh
man
starting
Official
There was a lot of Veronica Dare in the book, which was nice, as you get a good grasp of her and Buck's history, as well as a LOOOONG recap of ODST. I think that chapter was as long as the rest of the book, but it was actually nice as I haven't played ODST since launch.
It doesn't explain her recon helmet, but it does paint the picture that she's VERY ONI AND DON'T TALK ABOUT IT. So anything goes I suppose. But Jun actually comes to Buck to recruit him for SIV duty, and makes Dare leave the room
They also introduced ODST/Spartan Palmer *covers ears from hisses* and did a find job of it, nothing big, but she wasn't offensive in any way, so I guess that's a positive!
It doesn't explain her recon helmet, but it does paint the picture that she's VERY ONI AND DON'T TALK ABOUT IT. So anything goes I suppose. But Jun actually comes to Buck to recruit him for SIV duty, and makes Dare leave the room
They also introduced ODST/Spartan Palmer *covers ears from hisses* and did a find job of it, nothing big, but she wasn't offensive in any way, so I guess that's a positive!
wesleyshark
Banned
Caayn
Member
Sure she
will be back
one of those
fanfics where she returns as
Okay one more for fun
samurai1226
Member
Ancilla!
I still think 343i must have a reason to make a whole novel trilogy spending a lot of pages about precursor (flood origins) and crazy forerunner AI technology for a bigger reason
wesleyshark
Banned
Sure she. Just not aswill be backcrazyone of thosehuman. I hope.fanfics where she returns as
Okay one more for fun
I don't always
redact
I redact all the things
Definitely. And we may already have hints of some ancilla harboring right under our noses.
There's also the other fragment of Cortana that possibly hitchhikes into the Ur-Didact's ancilla repository:
I mean it always seems like they kept their ancilla dumb on purpose. But this is the race that build medicantbias...so i wouldn't say they were behind
wesleyshark
Banned
"Is this the secret you've kept from me? This... evolved ancilla?"
While the Forerunner ancillas were dumb AIs, the Forerunner construct AIs were certainly not. 343GS, Mendicant Bias, Offensive Bias, etc... They were highly advanced AIs. Ancient Humanity made use of Servitors, which were more akin to dumb AIs.
Remember, though Cortana is currently far more evolved than other AI that modern humanity has created, the Metastability state is still something to be achieved. Forerunner AIs can last for millenia. Human AIs last for ~seven years.
I think we are going to see Cortana reach some sort of Metastability, or something even greater than that, within the next couple games. Hell, BB might even factor into this somehow as well.
Yeah, but Mendicant and Offensive Bias are specifically described as "Contender-class", unlike anything the Forerunners have built before. Aside from not having a de facto lifespan, I don't think we've seen anything that implies they are more capable than human latter-generation AIs (as for their metastability, they're clearly humanly fallible if 343 is any indication.)
MrGreencastle
Member
It was described that MB and OB weren't exactly contained in one unit, either. More like an array of many, many AI that were paralleled together under one routine designed by Didact. At least, that's how I've always taken it. Then again... what's the difference, really? BB is probably closer to MB than Cortana.
That's what I'm asking
I need to reread Glasslands again, though. I know BB is a newer AI model, but they don't necessarily elucidate what advances were made with the fourth-gen smart AIs. The only thing I can think of is how BB spins off "dumb" copies of himself, which sort of sounds like a safer version of Cortana's copying and partitioning methods.
wesleyshark
Banned
That's what I'm asking
I need to reread Glasslands again, though. I know BB is a newer AI model, but they don't necessarily elucidate what advances were made with the fourth-gen smart AIs. The only thing I can think of is how BB spins off "dumb" copies of himself, which sort of sounds like a safer version of Cortana's copying and partitioning methods.
Mortal Dictata is quite excellent as well for the inner musings and intricacies of BB.
wesleyshark
Banned
Well, 343GS was originally human, and it wasn't until what had been wiped from his memory began to resurface that we see his AI stability begin to fluctuate. It's like there's suddenly another intelligence in your own brain, and even though it's also you, you don't remember yourself, and it begins to break you down. The consciousness of Chakas kind of bleeds through when 343GS first meets Chief, through subconscious recognition of the IsoDidact's geas. And it isn't until 343GS is found by ONI after the events of Halo 3 that he begins to actually remember who he used to be.
While 343 and others like him are certainly not on the same level as Contender Class AIs, and though they are certainly fallible, human AIs still have some catching up to do...perhaps not in ability, but in longevity itself.
Caayn
Member
This is what I would say as well. Limit the knowledge and capabilities of artificial intelligence to stimulate the growth of your own species and maintain control over everything.
The Forerunners, for all their wisdom and ages spent researching the universe and looking after it, aren't show as a species that do things without a purpose.
wesleyshark
Banned
Definitely. This is said outright in Broken Circle. The monitors were given limited bandwidth, persay, in what they were able to know. It was mostly contained to the construct and/or location they were stationed.
My favorite poster wows' me again
Am really reading or all your posts when I can.
Could you tell me why GS got the Chief confused with someone else? Or does the Chief have some DNA imprinted on him?
Also I was reading some thoughts about whether or not the Chief clone have survived. Where can we go from here if he did? Is it possible that ONI took him? To do some crazy plan or something?
MrGreencastle
Member
I'm doubting the clone actually survived very long. More likely that the "teacher" talking about John's clone is full of it and ONI are trying to "retcon" Chief's actual past from age 6 on in the Spartan II program. My guess is they're going to spin it so that Halsey's program was completely unsanctioned and paid for by insurrectionists with stolen plans from ONI or something along those lines. Making Chief savior, yes, but illegal egotist and in possession of stolen Mjolnir and Cortana - maybe even charge him for losing one of the most advanced AI in the UNSC. Who knows.
Caayn
Member
Thanks for confirming that
Still reading Broken Circle so I should come across that soon.wesleyshark
Banned
My favorite poster wows' me again
Am really reading or all your posts when I can.
Could you tell me why GS got the Chief confused with someone else? Or does the Chief have some DNA imprinted on him?
Also I was reading some thoughts about whether or not the Chief clone have survived. Where can we go from here if he did? Is it possible that ONI took him? To do some crazy plan or something?
There are possible plot beats to be imagined with his clone still being alive and at the service of ONI or something like that, but I find it more likely that most of the interviewees in Benjamin's roster are ONI plants. They are trying to create a narrative for the public to accept, that will come into play against what they are actually doing and have done in the past.
I think that whatever it is that causes Chief to become a target is something that we aren't aware of yet. It'll either be something that happens prerelease (in Escalation or in one of the upcoming novels/novellas) or it'll be something on a massive scale that occurs at or near the beginning of Halo 5.
wesleyshark
Banned
Thanks for confirming that
Enjoy!!! I am quite fond of that book. The political intrigue is handled so well, and it's quite curious that 343 gave us such a wide window into learning more about the Prophets*. I was a bit sad when I got to the end because I wanted more!
*they will come into play down the road, mark my words.
MrGreencastle
Member
Also I think some of us lore nerds are at a bit of a disadvantage here with #huntthetruth. I think it's more geared toward those not that familiar with the whole backstory of the Spartans and what not - kind of like the general population of civilians would be. We should be operating from the position that we don't know anything beyond "Master Chief is a mysterious super-soldier that saved humanity". Most people, even in the UNSC, have no clue where Spartans actually came from, who Dr. Halsey is, etc. I wouldn't be surprised if this "truth" that is being uncovered is simply going to play out to be a tabloid-style blowout explaining the grimy details of the Spartan II program to the general population in-universe - initially seeded as a ONI-fed spread, and this Mr. Giraud guy discovers the "truth" among ONI's bs and goes for the more juicy story of the whole coverup, etc.
wesleyshark
Banned
343GS is a composed construct from the human known as Chakas. Chakas was imprinted with the geas of the Lord of Admirals, who was the supreme ruler of Ancient Humanity, and relentless enemy of the Ur-Didact.
Master Chief is a theorized long-term descendant of Riser, Chakas' friend, who was imprinted with the geas of the IsoDidact.
Master Chief is not aware of any of this just yet, as his geas has not yet full awakened to a conscious level of awareness, but one geas can sense another geas when they are in close proximity, and 343GS, who was once Chakas, who had the geas of the Lord of Admirals subconsciously recognized the geas of the IsoDidact in Master Chief upon meeting him. He wasn't aware of this outright, but it caused him to simply assume that Chief knew what he was doing with the Halo, as his brain was misfiring between what he was seeing on two different levels of consciousness.
This is why 343GS says to Chief, "Last time, you asked me, if it were my choice, would I do it? Having considerable time to ponder your query, my answer has not changed. There is no choice. We must activate the ring."
It's a question, but also an answer, millenia in the making, to when IsoDidact says to Chakas, "Tell me Chakas, after all we have seen and survived, would you fire the rings?"
It's a question, but also an answer, millenia in the making, to when IsoDidact says to Chakas, "Tell me Chakas, after all we have seen and survived, would you fire the rings?"
Now, this assumption about Master Chief isn't literally factual. It's a theory based on hints and clues and other breadcrumbs. But it's the best we can gather so far until we learn more about the Librarian's plan and what IsoDidact foresaw in Riser.
wesleyshark
Banned
I'm inclined to agree with you. That seems more likely than an actual clone plot being introduced into the story beyond flash clone replacements that were meant to hide the atrocities of what Halsey did in the name of insurrectionist suppression. It'll be good for people who aren't caught up to speed on that piece of the lore, and a fun new angle for those of us who lose hours of sleep thinking about this Hahaha.
The problem I have with that attitude is that by Halo 4, everyone seems to know the Chief's origins--even if we assume not everyone heard about it shortly after Parangosky let it be known, it's been years. "OMG he was kidnapped" seems like a pointless plot point to bring up now.
wesleyshark
Banned
Maybe I'm not remembering correctly, but did she ever carry that out... The declassification of the Spartan program? I can't recall if she did or not by the end of the Kilo Five trilogy.
Rightful Chaos
Neo Member
She said she wanted everything declassified after her death I believe, if memory serves. She died sometime after Kilo-Five and before Spartan Ops, or at the very least retired. We were never told if they were declassified though.
wesleyshark
Banned
I'm thinking Osman may have different ideals and plans. Perhaps the declassification never happened like she had wished. That would be a better fit with what ONI is doing with the Hunt the Truth strawman.
Thank you bro. Appreciate it.
Wasn't the Spartan II program founded by and blessed by ONI? Seems like they are against it now, Right?
Thank you Wesley
really appreciate it You guys make me more attached to Halo Lore.
Did the ISO didact know about Chakas being lord of admirals?
ISO didact is good right?
Rightful Chaos
Neo Member
Entirely possible. But Osman seemed to feel like Parangosky was her mother. Whether or not that may have had a roll in it, i'm unsure. If the files were declassified, Parangosky's name would've been shredded, right? Perhaps Osman is trying to rewrite history.
wesleyshark
Banned
Also possible. There's a lot of gaps between Kilo Five and Halo 5 so there's some things that may lead to things never being declassified... Especially if whatever Chief ends up doing to piss ONI off makes Osman change her mind about the whole thing. Just tossing dimes into the fountain here lol.
Rightful Chaos
Neo Member
wesleyshark
Banned
Wasn't the Spartan II program founded by and blessed by ONI? Seems like they are against it now, Right?
Thank you Wesley
You guys make me more attached to Halo Lore.
Did the ISO didact know about Chakas being lord of admirals?
ISO didact is good right?
- It was founded by Catherine Halsey, and ONIs involvement is kinda greyed out. But it was mostly Halsey's doing, with the help of others, as they worked under the radar of the UNSC.
- No problem! I love this stuff and I love to talk about it haha.
- IsoDidact knew of Chakas' geas, yes. Is IsoDidact a good guy? I'd say so, yes, but not in the black and white ideals that we try and constrain characters to. There's a lot of moral grey in the Forerunner structure, and while Ur-Didact's pride certainly led to his downfall and the downfall of his species, IsoDidact opted to follow the will of the Mantle in giving it up for humanity to claim at some point, when they are ready. So yeah, I'd say he's good. But should he return, I'm not sure what will have changed, or what will drive him this way or that.
Poodlestrike
Banned
That's a bit of a Traviss semi-retcon; Paragonsky and ONI was involved from the very beginning, going off of Fall of Reach. Hell, the Spartans officially operated under... I think ONI section 3?