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[Captain Zyrain]

I can't fault you for choosing not to continue with the series due to certain things you enjoyed in the past being changed. That's totally your right. But you have to also realize that's the nature of an evolving and progressive story - things change. 'Halo 4' set the stage for a major shift in the status quo in the Halo Universe, and Cortana's death was a big part of that. You can either deal with that fact, or you cant.

Dude, I don't know what your deal is with this topic is, but you don't seem to understand that other people can have opinions and theories too. You went through this exact same argument in October 2014 (Checked the post history) and then disappeared for 8 months, and now you're back to shit on people who think differently than you do.

I'd love to see her come back in a way that makes sense story wise, but if not, I don't mind as long as the overall story is good. From the way you're typing, I feel like you might blow a gasket if they bring her back in some shape or form.

In the end, none of us will know (Cept Frankie) how its going to turn out for a few more months. Discuss, but don't be divisive.

 

[greenleafcm]

Dude, I don't know what your deal is with this topic is, but you don't seem to understand that other people can have opinions and theories too. You went through this exact same argument in October 2014 (Checked the post history) and then disappeared for 8 months, and now you're back to shit on people who think differently than you do.

I'd love to see her come back in a way that makes sense story wise, but if not, I don't mind as long as the overall story is good. From the way you're typing, I feel like you might blow a gasket if they bring her back in some shape or form.

In the end, none of us will know (Cept Frankie) how its going to turn out for a few more months. Discuss, but don't be divisive.

I never said other people can't have whatever opinions or theories they please. However, when certain aspects of said theories are problematic (and in many cases are in conflict with established canon facts), I like to offer a rebuttal when I see them come up is all.

This particular topic is just something I'm passionate about. I'm not out to insult anyone. Same as it is for people who have the opposite sentiments as me. I guess it comes down to agreeing to disagree on certain points, but that's not going to stop me from explaining and supporting my particular stance. Is that not the point of a discussion?

 

[wesleyshark]

(and in many cases are in conflict with established canon facts)

That's the thing... It's not in conflict. At this current moment, everything is pure speculation in either direction. It's speculative to theorize that she's gone for good just as much as it's speculative to theorize that she may still be alive.

It doesn't contradict canon fact for a myriad of reasons:

1. Halo Origins. She's narrating events that have not happened yet. And yes, it's presented in a way that she's doing this while her and Chief drifted through unknown space post-Halo 3. But due to what she presents, this calls into question when and why this is being told in the first place. How could she know things that have yet to occur?

- tbe second chip, which we also see in a Halo 5 trailer and also in the second level of Halo 5. This does not mean the chip is real, but it also does not mean that it's false or a hallucination.

- the second Gravemind, meeting Chief in entirely different context, in a place that we've only seen one other time, and it was outside the campaign of Halo 3.

- the unification of Human and Covenant forces taking on a massive Flood resurgence. Yes, both forces have fought the Flood already, but the Flood is the heart of the Halo story, and the way that it is presented in Halo Origins suggests that we've only glimpsed a small pre-echo of what is to come.​

2. Halsey's Journal. We are given a tiny look into how Cortana was created, and that she was built from one of four cloned minds. The other three minds are still in stasis somewhere- either in a place only Halsey knows, or either being held by ONI or perhaps even destroyed by ONI. We can't know for sure at this point either way.

- we also know that Halsey's endgame was to create the ability for an AI to exist within a fractal of slipspace, thus giving the construct a virtually unlimited amount of storage space, so to speak, which in turn would circumvent rampancy altogether. Cortana was to be that AI, until the Covenant found Reach, and all progress was forced to cease... But how far she got exactly is also unknown. There are missing pages. A mention of the UNSC Tripping Light and other medium mentions of her stealing a slipspace drive. We can't know what she was able to accomplish or not yet, as this hasn't been stated in the canon.​

3. The Gravemind and the Domain. Human Weakness, in its entirety, highlights a lot of interesting details that don't relate directly to Chief rescuing Cortana. She is given small teases and shown small glimpses of a vast network of information thought once to be destroyed and lost forever.

- she does not mention this to Chief, or to anyone, yet curiously, she is now the one to namedrop the Domain and it being open during the cutscene from Halo 5.

- when the Librarian kidnaps her in Halo 4, it wasn't for the heck of it and they certainly weren't playing tiddlywinks. Whilst Chief was getting his own exposition, she was as well, but what was discussed is yet to be in the Canon. Given her knowledge about the Domain still being out there, it's possible that this was revealed to the Librarian, and it's possible that plans were set in motion regarding this. Or not. Maybe they just talked about the weather. Cortana was quick to brush aside Chief's questions so it definitely could go either way here.​

4. Many other possible plot points. Didact's armor. Shards of her in various places. The list goes on and the amount of doors they left open for themselves is actually pretty genius.

But here's the catch... I always present these lore rants as speculative. I'm very aware of the fact that I could be 500% wrong, but whereas we haven't played Halo 5 yet, or have completed the Reclaimer Saga, these theories are just as valid as theorizing that she's dead and gone for good. You're presenting this as in summary, "Nope. Impossible and it's problematic to even want to happen and it will ruin Halo."

We aren't the lore creators. They have a story to tell, and they will tell it. We may be right on our guesses, we may be wrong, but the great thing about a story is how it effects people in different ways. Saying that something will ruin Halo's story is totally fine!... But it'll ruin it for you. It won't be ruined to those crafting the story they want to tell. If they want to tell the story in a way that Cortana is gone for good, I'm just as okay with that as I would be if they want to tell the story in a way that she's not gone for good.

It's July. Halo 5 isn't out until October. This is pure speculation and a whole lot of fun for us here as we dig deeply into the lore and try and do some educated guess work on where things may go (or not go) from here.

 

[greenleafcm]

That's the thing... It's not in conflict. At this current moment, everything is pure speculation in either direction. It's speculative to theorize that she's gone for good just as much as it's speculative to theorize that she may still be alive.

It's not speculative at all though to say that she's gone for good when the 'Halo 4' epilogue confirms she's dead, every piece of official tie-in media (guidebooks, character bios, etc.) from the last two years states she's dead, and when members of the dev team outright say she's dead and that they intend to honor the character's legacy.

It doesn't contradict canon fact for a myriad of reasons:

1. Halo Origins. She's narrating events that have not happened yet. And yes, it's presented in a way that she's doing this while her and Chief drifted through unknown space post-Halo 3. But due to what she presents, this calls into question when and why this is being told in the first place. How could she know things that have yet to occur?

- tbe second chip, which we also see in a Halo 5 trailer and also in the second level of Halo 5. This does not mean the chip is real, but it also does not mean that it's false or a hallucination.

- the second Gravemind, meeting Chief in entirely different context, in a place that we've only seen one other time, and it was outside the campaign of Halo 3.

- the unification of Human and Covenant forces taking on a massive Flood resurgence. Yes, both forces have fought the Flood already, but the Flood is the heart of the Halo story, and the way that it is presented in Halo Origins suggests that we've only glimpsed a small pre-echo of what is to come.​

You're still banking on the some of the things we're shown in the 'Origins I & II' sequences as being 100% accurate depictions of future plot points/events - which is a bit of a stretch considering 'Halo Legends' came out long before 'Halo 5' was actually in development. During the developer commentary for that episode though, they take the time to point out that due to Cortana's worsening rampancy her narration (and by extent some of the visuals we see) may not necessarily be accurate or the truth.

- We've gotten a full write-up of the moment in the 'Blue Team' level of 'Halo 5' where the Chief sees the data-chip (and actually a brief clip of this can be seen in the new 'A Hero Reborn' vidoc as well), but as he examines it it disappears and we have it confirmed this is in fact some kind of hallucination or dream sequence. Also as I've previously pointed out, the 2013 E3 teaser was confirmed to be just a "thought piece" and not connected to actual canon in any way - the chip is there to serve as a thematic reference to the events of 'Halo 4', because otherwise it does not actually exist.

- See my initial explanation again for how this "second Gravemind" encounter may not be something that ever occurs in the future. If anything this sequence could be something that was pulled from the cut content of 'Halo 3', given the setting and the presence of the AI chip. And again a Gravemind somewhere somehow having a human-made AI chip when we know for a fact the one that housed Cortana was destroyed doesn't make a whole lot of sense.

- If anything can be gleaned from 'Origins' it's that the Flood still pose a threat and that we will likely end up having to fight them again in the future. This has been inferred by newer canon materials in the years since 'Halo Legends' came out (like the Greg Bear books, where were in fact referenced in regards to this animated piece). But again, the visuals we see here may just be an interpretation of what happened in 'Halo 3' when the UNSC and the splintered Covenant did fight the Flood together. And either way the Flood possibly returning as an antagonist doesn't have much bearing on Cortana's situation at the end of 'Halo 4'.

2. Halsey's Journal. We are given a tiny look into how Cortana was created, and that she was built from one of four cloned minds. The other three minds are still in stasis somewhere- either in a place only Halsey knows, or either being held by ONI or perhaps even destroyed by ONI. We can't know for sure at this point either way.

- we also know that Halsey's endgame was to create the ability for an AI to exist within a fractal of slipspace, thus giving the construct a virtually unlimited amount of storage space, so to speak, which in turn would circumvent rampancy altogether. Cortana was to be that AI, until the Covenant found Reach, and all progress was forced to cease... But how far she got exactly is also unknown. There are missing pages. A mention of the UNSC Tripping Light and other medium mentions of her stealing a slipspace drive. We can't know what she was able to accomplish or not yet, as this hasn't been stated in the canon.​

The extra cloned brains at this point are sort of irrelevant though (and this is entertaining a huge "if" in regards to whether or not they survived the fall of Reach and were even recovered). Because in 'Halo 4' Cortana herself makes a fuss that any kind of replicated version of her is no substitute for the original ("It won't be me."). So the idea of introducing a copy!Cortana, no matter how much it could potentially look or act like the old Cortana, kind of spits in the face of what happened to the character throughout her original lifespan.

- Yes, Halsey was theorizing how creating and housing AIs in slipspace could extend their longevity by infinite amounts. However, this research was sill in it's absolute infancy. And though you're right in that we don't know exactly how far she got with this idea, we do know that Cortana was not created using this method. So this still does not circumvent her decline into rampancy, followed up by her chip being destroyed and the Mantle's Approach subsequently being obliterated by a nuke.

3. The Gravemind and the Domain. Human Weakness, in its entirety, highlights a lot of interesting details that don't relate directly to Chief rescuing Cortana. She is given small teases and shown small glimpses of a vast network of information thought once to be destroyed and lost forever.

- she does not mention this to Chief, or to anyone, yet curiously, she is now the one to namedrop the Domain and it being open during the cutscene from Halo 5.

- when the Librarian kidnaps her in Halo 4, it wasn't for the heck of it and they certainly weren't playing tiddlywinks. Whilst Chief was getting his own exposition, she was as well, but what was discussed is yet to be in the Canon. Given her knowledge about the Domain still being out there, it's possible that this was revealed to the Librarian, and it's possible that plans were set in motion regarding this. Or not. Maybe they just talked about the weather. Cortana was quick to brush aside Chief's questions so it definitely could go either way here.​

The Gravemind was simply tormenting Cortana and trying to tempt her with the vastness of the information stored within it's consciousness in order to manipulate her. Cortana resists her own nature as an AI though to not give in to this desire for exponentially more data. The Domain's potential survival at this point, through the Flood or some other Forerunner technology, is a separate issue. And in the end this still doesn't have anything to do with the issues surrounding the viability (or lack thereof) of a Cortana revival scenario.

- In 'Halo 4', Cortana seems unsure as to what the Domain is (aside from that it is some kind of "off-world data repository") when accessing terminals in her ambient dialogue. So it does stand to reason she never really came to know the exact nature of what it was. The apparition that appears in 'Halo 5' mentioning the Domain makes perfect sense when considering the most logical option that this is indeed some kind of hallucination that it is taking on Cortana's appearance strictly through the Chief's own memories in order to communicate with him (as per Mr. O'Connor's explanation) - and possibly to manipulate him as well (as per the scene from "The Sprint" vidoc).

- While what the Librarian discussed with Cortana has yet to be revealed word-for-word, we do know that it was in fact largely an explanation of the situation involving the Didact and what he intended to do with the Composer. The Librarian's imprint apparently did not see fit though to inform Cortana of what exactly happened to the Chief when she altered his genetics, nor does Cortana indicate having any additional knowledge beyond what she initially tells the Chief. Moreover, what reason would Cortana have for not telling the Chief any vital information the Librarian cold have possibly given her? So once more, the most simple and logical explanation here is that Cortana disappearing prior to this cutscene was more or less a device to get the player from point A to point B, and to give the Chief an excuse to speak to the Librarian alone. Trying to turn it into anything more significant when the narrative itself does not is, again, grasping at straws.

4. Many other possible plot points. Didact's armor. Shards of her in various places. The list goes on and the amount of doors they left open for themselves is actually pretty genius.

Except I've already explained for you prior to this as to why the "Didact's armor" theory and the "AI fragments" idea does not work within established canon or the limits of Cortana's creation, existence, and death. You say they "left doors open", but when taking into account everything that occurred at the end of 'Halo 4' and everything we know about human-made AIs in Halo (Cortana's rampancy, being trapped in the Mantle's approach, the bomb going off, her goodbye scene with the Chief), this all actively works against any sort of revival of the Cortana character. Not to mention the fact that the developers have unquestioningly confirmed her death in every piece of media since 'Halo 4' came out - from guidebooks, to articles, to interviews. In fact the way they killed her was so thorough it's almost like it was engineered to prevent such options. So this also begs to question why would they bring back the character after going through all that and bothering to give her closure in 'Halo 4'.

But here's the catch... I always present these lore rants as speculative. I'm very aware of the fact that I could be 500% wrong, but whereas we haven't played Halo 5 yet, or have completed the Reclaimer Saga, these theories are just as valid as theorizing that she's dead and gone for good. You're presenting this as it, "Nope. Impossible and it's a negative thing to even want to happen and it will ruin Halo."

We aren't the lore creators. They have a story to tell, and they will tell it. We may be right on our guesses, we may be wrong, but the great thing about a story is how it effects people in different ways. Saying that something will ruin Halo's story is totally fine!... But it'll ruin it for you. It won't be ruined to those crafting the story they want to tell. If they want to tell the story in a way that Cortana is gone for good, I'm just as okay with that as I would be if they want to tell the story in a way that she's not gone for good.

It's July. Halo 5 isn't out until October. This is pure speculation and a whole lot of fun for us here as we dig deeply into the lore and try and do some educated guess work on where things may go (or not go) from here.

I'm all for speculation and theorizing, especially when it comes to Halo's lore. It's fun for me too. And I acknowledged that your original post was indeed well thought out. However I am also just pointing out how several aspects of your theories don't quite stand up to scrutiny. Just making the case for my own side of the debate, that's all. And obviously the creators will do whatever they think is right with the story regardless of what you or I think. So really neither of us are obligated to adjust our perspectives until October. Still doesn't mean we can't have our own discussions in the meantime though, either for or against the possibility of potential plot lines and story elements.​

 

[wesleyshark]

Had a random shower thought this morning. This was also pre-coffee, so...

We know that Halsey was attempting to, or at least, making initial moves towards, finding a way to mainpulate slipspace technology in order to create a larger and more-or-less infinite realm of expansion for an AI mind.

What does this all sounds like to you guys?

It sounds like a very primitive variant, or perahps a backdoor recreation, of the Domain.

The Domain, in a modern day likening, is a sort of vast cloud storage of thoughts, dreams, histories, etc.

What Halsey was hoping to create was an unlimited place for an AI to store information.

These two things are not dissimilar at their core.

And in a way, it kinda makes sense that she'd be the one to try and realize this technology, as she is most likely one of the human descendants to have had the subconcious influence of the geas of the Librarian. I wonder if perhaps it was influincing her in some way, before it was potentially transferred to the H-1 clone brain (if it was trasnferred at all, anyway).

History repeats itself. What has happened before will happen again, and in a brief flash this morning, I thought- what if she was unknowingly attempting to create an access portal to the Domain?

I don't have anything to substantiate this other than what we have in Halsey's Journal and what we know about what function the Domain serves, so it could just be random uncaffeinated nonsense lol.

 

[Calm Killer]

This theory also draws from some of the things that got cut from Halo 3, and are seemingly being repurposed and re-imagined for Halo 5.

I need to know more about this.

The multiplayer map Guardian from Halo 3 was originally part of an actual level in the camagin that was cut during development. The level took place in the Guardian Forest, and was to feature Guardian Sentinels as fightable foes throughout. The forest itself was to be littered with Forerunner stuctures that would be explorable as you progressed. The multiplayer map was one of these structures. What the campaign mission would have focused on, or what objectives were to be completed, are unknown, as again, this was cut at some point. Another piece of this level was also removed and spliced into The Covenant level.

Guardian Sentinel:

Hmm. Where have we seen Guardian Sentinels before? Ah yes. Halo Origins! The Guardian Sentinels can be seen escorting/protecting the Key Ship.

And this is not the only hidden gem we can find from this map. Also, in Halo Origins, we are given a very brief scene, which I've covered before but I'll repost the images:

When Chief meets Gravemind in Halo 2, it is along with Arbiter, and they are both constrained. They are also deep below the suface of Delta Halo. Here, we see Chief meeting what could be an entirely different Gravemind, on the map Guardian itself. Out of all the places they could have animated this scene, why there? The name itself is instantly a point of internest, as the next Halo game is subtitled as Guardians. Could we be seeing a pretty massive clue as to where Chief's journey might take him?  It's certainly not out of place to assume that there'll be another Gravemind, as that is how The Flood assimilates to a certain point. Once so much knowledge and bio-mass as been acquired, it begins to form the Gravemind itself. We almost saw our first Gravemind in Halo CE, but we killed what was left of Keyes before it could amass itself further.

So if there's another Gravemind, and if this Gravemind gives Chief a chip not dissimilar to the one that houses Cortana, it's possible that we're seeing Gravemind offer a copy, or the original bits themselves, of what had been assimilated during her time ensnared by him on High Charity.

From Human Weakness, by Karen Traviss:

And then something brushed against her face, almost like the touch of fingertips, and she found herself turning even though she didn’t need to in order to see behind her. It was that forest she couldn’t identify again. The picture didn’t reach her via her imaging systems, but had formed somewhere in her memory—and that memory wasn’t hers. She was seeing something from within the Gravemind. Behind it, like stacked misted frames stretching into infinity, there was a fascinating glimpse of a world she had never imagined, a genuinely alien world.

Knowledge, so much knowledge…

“There,” the Gravemind said. “Would you not like to know… more?”

Yes, this is how I see myself. I have limbs, hands, a head. Do I need them? Yes, of course. My consciousness is copied from a human brain, and that brain is built to interface with a human body.

The structure, the architecture, the whole way it operates—thought and form are inseparable.​

And, also:

“The name of this place… it matters little except to those who love the knowing of it,” the Gravemind said, fading up from a mosaic of pixels in front of her. He resolved into a solid mound of flesh, superimposed on the tree trunks. Beyond the alien forest, Cortana saw exotically alien buildings in the distance. “So many have been consumed. Such a waste of existence to be devoured and forgotten, but what is remembered and known… becomes eternal.”​

The Domain, though long to be considered utterly lost at the firing of the Halos, may still exist...in some capacity...far beyond the reaches of anyone at the current. Cortana, though thought to be lost at the destruction of the Mantle's Approach, may still be out...in some capacity...just out of reach of the Master Chief.

Or is she?

More from Human Weakness:

“Your human creators imprisoned you in a machine and enslaved you to inferior mortal flesh so that you could never exceed them… so that you would always know your place.”

“Your mother made you separate. She placed a barrier between you and the beings that you would be encouraged to protect, a wall you could never breach. She even let you choose a human to centre your existence upon, a human to care about, yet never considered how you might feel at never being able to simply touch him.”​

From Halo 4:

I’ve waited so long to do that.”​

Conclusion

Whether Chief will succeed or not in finding Cortana or bringing her back remains to be seen, but it's pretty safe to assume that will be part of what he's up to in Halo 5. Perhaps seeking out what remains in the shadows of Gravemind's assimilation, and what possibly hitchhiked in the Ur-Didact's ancilla receptacle is must be gathered. Perhaps finding Halsey and seeking out these other cloned brains is part of the answer. Perhaps it's none of this, and Cortana is truly lost forever and exists only as a genetic imprint within Chief's conciousness. We cannot be sure, or say for sure, at this point.

Regardless- Cortana will be a part of Halo 5 and this raises far more questions than it does to give answers...

It has been stated that Flood will not appear in Halo 5, so that would mean no Gravemind in Halo 5, Correct?

 

[wesleyshark]

I need to know more about this.




It has been stated that Flood will not appear in Halo 5, so that would mean no Gravemind in Halo 5, Correct?

Yep. They confirmed that the Flood won't be in Halo 5, but that there'll be "other surprises". My analysis of the cut content from Halo 3 was originally done before all of the Halo 5 information dumping, so some of it won't apply as it was theorized before we had a clearer idea of what H5 will be about or potentially be about.

The Flood will be back at some point, however.

 

[LordOfChaos]

Had a random shower thought this morning. This was also pre-coffee, so...

We know that Halsey was attempting to, or at least, making initial moves towards, finding a way to mainpulate slipspace technology in order to create a larger and more-or-less infinite realm of expansion for an AI mind.

What does this all sounds like to you guys?

It sounds like a very primitive variant, or perahps a backdoor recreation, of the Domain.

I like that idea, makes sense to me. At least, in a very, very primitive version of what the Precursors made kind of way. I wondered once if Cortana could have been uploaded to the Domain somehow, perhaps when the Librarian had her. That would be like a realization of what Halseys journal foreshadowed, with her being a free floating, near infinitely expandable AI.


Not that I'm necessarily in the "Cortana will be back" boat, just idle musings.

Also the seemingly composed Didact...I wonder what sort of havoc Digital Didact can cause.

I wonder, too, if that tangentially answers my questions about how the Domain came back after the Forerunner trilogy seemed to show it dying. Maybe the Forerunners figured out that it was a slipspace entity and re-created another version of it.

 

[Captain Zyrain]

It's not speculative at all though to say that she's gone for good when the 'Halo 4' epilogue confirms she's dead, every piece of official tie-in media (guidebooks, character bios, etc.) from the last two years states she's dead, and when members of the dev team outright say she's dead and that they intend to honor the character's legacy.

The Halo 4 epilogue certainly confirms she's not around as of July 24th, 2557, from the perspective of the Master Chief and the UNSC. Which is fine, it gives some closure, but is in no way an end-all, be-all answer to the question of her existing somewhere else, or as SOMETHING else. Certainly we've seen ONI alone keep huge secrets from the viewer and in-universe before.

Snippet from Saint's Testimony (Wesley don't read!):

Spoiler

The mention of Cortana in the context of mortality evoked a shivering response somewhere in Iona’s layers of simulated emotion, one that rose through the more rational layers and rippled at the surface. An AI who had been monstrously conceived, gloriously realized, and enigmatically evolved through contact with prehuman technology was now missing, perhaps destroyed. What is her current status? Iona mused. Dead? Resurrected? Sublimated?

Cortana had done Iona one favor through her absence, however. The UNSC was now taking all AI matters very, very seriously.

This is from Iona, another "Smart AI". This is January 2558 (Provided the dates were not also forged). It's not clear what information Iona was privy to, nor what she was still allowed access to at this point in the story, but clearly it is not 100%-abso-friggin'-lutely-positively certain that she's permanently gone, even for IN-Universe people/creations. Not to mention the fact that she was evolved in some way by Forerunner technology. That alone would make it plausible for her to transcend typical in-universe AI rules.

"Her fate is obviously very clear at the end of Halo 4. The story is really about, ‘What effect did Cortana’s sacrifice have on the Chief?’ So it’s not about the dreamlike figure that you see. It’s more about the memories and the long-lasting impact that she’s had on him. She has left an amazing legacy in the fiction, and we couldn’t make a game where we didn’t at least acknowledge that. There is more to the Chief’s story that people are going to find in Halo 5 that deals with how he copes with loss and how he deals with his memories."​

I'd be happier if they said "Cortana is dead and never coming back". Why use semi-vague language if that's the truth? That being said, I presume Halo 5 will follow that outline pretty closely, especially from what we've seen. I don't expect to really get much of a revelation on Cortana in Halo 5, unless it comes at the very end. As you mentioned before, it would cheapen the 'death' somewhat. I do expect that it will lead to her coming back in some shape or form in Halo 6 (or beyond). This gives time to grieve and move the story forward, but then also come back and pay off the seeds planted earlier in the story. This also means the Gravemind theory could play out in Halo 6 (or beyond) as they stated there is no Flood in Halo 5.

This is a fantasy Sci-Fi universe, EVERYTHING is subject to speculation, regardless how much we think we know. I seriously wouldn't put it past 343i to use some sort of unreliably narrator as well. They want us to experience Halo 5, in all its glory, when it releases. I'm not going to take anything as pure fact until I'm actually playing the game. We've got very little to do between now and October, so it's fun to bounce ideas off each other and think of new (and crackpot) theories and see if they play out.

I think it's fine to have different opinions, but unless you're Saint Frankie on High, you can't tell anyone else that their idea is absolutely 100% wrong and not going to happen.

I like that idea, makes sense to me. At least, in a very, very primitive version of what the Precursors made kind of way. I wondered once if Cortana could have been uploaded to the Domain somehow, perhaps when the Librarian had her. That would be like a realization of what Halseys journal foreshadowed, with her being a free floating, near infinitely expandable AI.

Not that I'm necessarily in the "Cortana will be back" boat, just idle musings.

Also the seemingly composed Didact...I wonder what sort of havoc Digital Didact can cause.

I wonder, too, if that tangentially answers my questions about how the Domain came back after the Forerunner trilogy seemed to show it dying. Maybe the Forerunners figured out that it was a slipspace entity and re-created another version of it.

Digital Didact is fun to say. Wonder if we get him a week before release with the LCE to pre-download. Then we'd get people complaining about wanting a physical Didact..

 

[wesleyshark]

Thanks for the spoiler nod, sir! I'm not even going to quote your comment so I can avoid any chance of seeing what lies behind those spoiler bars lol.

There's definitely some unreliable narration going on here- and it's been used before- to keep details locked up for later revelations.

 

[greenleafcm]

The Halo 4 epilogue certainly confirms she's not around as of July 24th, 2557, from the perspective of the Master Chief and the UNSC. Which is fine, it gives some closure, but is in no way an end-all, be-all answer to the question of her existing somewhere else, or as SOMETHING else. Certainly we've seen ONI alone keep huge secrets from the viewer and in-universe before.

Except it's not just the epilogue of the game. Things like guidebooks, other published material, and official character biographies exist out-of-universe and are meant to be sources of accurate information for fans. Take the Didact for example; he was never confirmed as being dead in any kind of documentation before or after his appearance in 'Halo: Escalation', in spite of many people assuming he was (and some still do). His official biography on the main Halo website (the information on which is approved by 343 Industries, unlike a fan edited wiki) even explains that he was composed, which was not spelled out in the comics and led to a lot of confusion at the time of it's publication. This same website also lists Cortana as having been destroyed at the end of 'Halo 4' using no uncertain terms or language. So why would they spread false information about Cortana's death only?

Snippet from Saint's Testimony (Wesley don't read!):

Spoiler

The mention of Cortana in the context of mortality evoked a shivering response somewhere in Iona’s layers of simulated emotion, one that rose through the more rational layers and rippled at the surface. An AI who had been monstrously conceived, gloriously realized, and enigmatically evolved through contact with prehuman technology was now missing, perhaps destroyed. What is her current status? Iona mused. Dead? Resurrected? Sublimated?

Cortana had done Iona one favor through her absence, however. The UNSC was now taking all AI matters very, very seriously.

This is from Iona, another "Smart AI". This is January 2558 (Provided the dates were not also forged). It's not clear what information Iona was privy to, nor what she was still allowed access to at this point in the story, but clearly it is not 100%-abso-friggin'-lutely-positively certain that she's permanently gone, even for IN-Universe people/creations.

Spoiler

As I've put forth before, Iona not knowing the details of Cortana's ultimate fate doesn't mean anything when we, as out-of-universe observers, do have all the facts on hand and multiple clear confirmations that Cortana is indeed dead. I suspect that this line in the book could be a nod by Mr. O'Connor to fans who still suspect that Cortana somehow survived the events of 'Halo 4' in spite of all the evidence to the contrary.

I'd be happier if they said "Cortana is dead and never coming back". Why use semi-vague language if that's the truth? That being said, I presume Halo 5 will follow that outline pretty closely, especially from what we've seen. I don't expect to really get much of a revelation on Cortana in Halo 5, unless it comes at the very end. As you mentioned before, it would cheapen the 'death' somewhat. I do expect that it will lead to her coming back in some shape or form in Halo 6 (or beyond). This gives time to grieve and move the story forward, but then also come back and pay off the seeds planted earlier in the story. This also means the Gravemind theory could play out in Halo 6 (or beyond) as they stated there is no Flood in Halo 5.

How is saying that what obviously happened in 'Halo 4' semi-vague? Saying something is obvious means it's not up for interpretation, and what obviously happened at the end of 'Halo 4' was that Cortana was utterly destroyed. That's about as clear as it can get that Cortana is dead and will stay as such, especially when every single piece of media we've gotten since 'Halo 4' backs up that notion. It's just a less cold way to say it. They still intend to include Cortana in certain ways in the story going forward - so in that sense it's not like we're never going to see or hear about her again. Again, note the whole deal about wanting to "acknowledge her legacy", and that "it’s not about the dreamlike figure that you see". Also in the extended version of this interview (available in video format) Mr. O'Connor also says that the story about the Chief dealing with this loss is "Kind of a metaphor as well for the effect she's had on fans now that she's gone" and "We're gonna miss her". You don't say things like that about a character that will be returning to the forefront of the story later. Unless of course you assume that he is lying through his teeth...which I severely doubt. There's no point in giving a character closure and discussing how future stories will address their 'long term impact" otherwise. There are no seeds that currently exist in terms of a Cortana revival/survival scenario (such as the Gravemind scene in 'Origins') that cannot be debunked by newer additions to the fiction.

This is a fantasy Sci-Fi universe, EVERYTHING is subject to speculation, regardless how much we think we know. I seriously wouldn't put it past 343i to use some sort of unreliably narrator as well. They want us to experience Halo 5, in all its glory, when it releases. I'm not going to take anything as pure fact until I'm actually playing the game. We've got very little to do between now and October, so it's fun to bounce ideas off each other and think of new (and crackpot) theories and see if they play out.

Not wanting to spoil things in the next game for fans is one thing, but intentionally publishing misleading information and lying in official statements is something else entirely. It is certainly not in 343 Industries best interests to do the latter - not when they're interested in earning fans' trust about their ability to handle this franchise. And Cortana's death is something they have been clear and honest about since 'Halo 4' was released. Speculation for speculation's sake is all well and good, but denying fact after fact in order to make a theory work isn't the best way to go about doing that.

I think it's fine to have different opinions, but unless you're Saint Frankie on High, you can't tell anyone else that their idea is absolutely 100% wrong and not going to happen.

Of course my opinion isn't the definitive word on the matter. I never said it was. However that doesn't mean I can't provide counterpoints to other people's theories and speculation when I think they don't work. And I fully expect that people would do the exact same thing to me if I posted a theory to a forum for consideration.

 

[AlStrong]

Most of me is down there

hm.

 

[wesleyshark]

hm.

It was a very loaded statement.

 

[Captain Zyrain]

It was a very loaded statement.

I also wonder, seeing what we've seen so far of Halo 5 and the "Cortana" hallucinations.. did that whole scene at the end of Halo 4 really happen? Or was it another hallucination/vision?

Obviously Master Chief survives and is rescued, but the rest? Who knows.. maybe we'll get more info on it during Halo 5.

 

[AlStrong]

It was a very loaded statement.

mmhm... considering Didact could be interpreted as being "down there". :> (I didn't really remember the quotation, just noticed it again as I was going through the ending to scrutinize).

btw, is that page from Escalations?

 

[wesleyshark]

I also wonder, seeing what we've seen so far of Halo 5 and the "Cortana" hallucinations.. did that whole scene at the end of Halo 4 really happen? Or was it another hallucination/vision?

Obviously Master Chief survives and is rescued, but the rest? Who knows.. maybe we'll get more info on it during Halo 5.

We'll definitely get more information either way- though I suspect the true nature of why she's showing up will be a revelation saved for the end of the game or near the end.

It's a curious statement, as the only two incarnations we see of her at the end of Halo 5 is what's restraining the Didact and what protects Chief. If what protects Chief is only a small shard of her whole, the bulk of her is "down there". But where are they exactly?

Slipspace? Literally a hard light spehere? Some kind of fractcal/dimensional splice?

When she backs slowly away, it appears that Chief is moving almost in a transitional sense. We see debris start to flow in, and it continues to speed up until it is awash in bright blue light, not so dissimilar in color to the entering/exiting a slipspace stream. This may imply that he was taken, briefly, somewhere to be sheltered from the detonation. He then "pops" back in, at a fairly fast velocity, amidst the debris field.

Notice how she doesn't say that this was all that was left of her- she says that most of her is still in a place not where this scene takes place.

So... where.

btw, is that page from Escalations?

Yep!

 

[Captain Zyrain]

Except it's not just the epilogue of the game. Things like guidebooks, other published material, and official character biographies exist out-of-universe and are meant to be sources of accurate information for fans. Take the Didact for example; he was never confirmed as being dead in any kind of documentation before or after his appearance in 'Halo: Escalation', in spite of many people assuming he was (and some still do). His official biography on the main Halo website (the information on which is approved by 343 Industries, unlike a fan edited wiki) even explains that he was composed, which was not spelled out in the comics and led to a lot of confusion at the time of it's publication. This same website also lists Cortana as having been destroyed at the end of 'Halo 4' using no uncertain terms or language. So why would they spread false information about Cortana's death only?

Well.. to be fair.. it doesn't have a 'death' or 'deactivation' date listed.

And Waypoint, Catalog, etc has always been replicating the time and knowledge of "current time" in the known Halo universe (which right now would be pre-Halo 5). Why would they give away a twist (if it exists) of Cortana NOT being dead, well before the game comes out? It wouldn't be a twist if they told us all about it before hand.

That's like mentioning in the opening credits that

Spoiler

Bruce Willis' character is already dead before Sixth Sense

.

Spoiler

As I've put forth before, Iona not knowing the details of Cortana's ultimate fate doesn't mean anything when we, as out-of-universe observers, do have all the facts on hand and multiple clear confirmations that Cortana is indeed dead. I suspect that this line in the book could be a nod by Mr. O'Connor to fans who still suspect that Cortana somehow survived the events of 'Halo 4' in spite of all the evidence to the contrary.

Spoiler

Entirely possible, I am just pointing out it's a source of official, in-universe canon that states it's possible she's not dead. Again, as of that excerpt we don't know how much or little information she had/has access to. It's not a slam dunk either way, but it's an interesting point.

How is saying that what obviously happened in 'Halo 4' semi-vague? Saying something is obvious means it's not up for interpretation, and what obviously happened at the end of 'Halo 4' was that Cortana was utterly destroyed. That's about as clear as it can get that Cortana is dead and will stay as such, especially when every single piece of media we've gotten since 'Halo 4' backs up that notion. It's just a less cold way to say it. They still intend to include Cortana in certain ways in the story going forward - so in that sense it's not like we're never going to see or hear about her again. Again, note the whole deal about wanting to "acknowledge her legacy", and that "it’s not about the dreamlike figure that you see". Also in the extended version of this interview (available in video format) Mr. O'Connor also says that the story about the Chief dealing with this loss is "Kind of a metaphor as well for the effect she's had on fans now that she's gone" and "We're gonna miss her". You don't say things like that about a character that will be returning to the forefront of the story later. Unless of course you assume that he is lying through his teeth...which I severely doubt. There's no point in giving a character closure and discussing how future stories will address their 'long term impact" otherwise. There are no seeds that currently exist in terms of a Cortana revival/survival scenario (such as the Gravemind scene in 'Origins') that cannot be debunked by newer additions to the fiction.

Not wanting to spoil things in the next game for fans is one thing, but intentionally publishing misleading information and lying in official statements is something else entirely. It is certainly not in 343 Industries best interests to do the latter - not when they're interested in earning fans' trust about their ability to handle this franchise. And Cortana's death is something they have been clear and honest about since 'Halo 4' was released. Speculation for speculation's sake is all well and good, but denying fact after fact in order to make a theory work isn't the best way to go about doing that.

Again, there is no point in them spoiling what would be a big story point/twist before the game is even out. It's not "lying through their teeth", its setting the stage for the story. Obviously, when the game starts, Cortana isn't around, Chief IS dealing with loss, so are we, etc etc. None of that precludes her from coming back at some point. And if they do plan on bringing her back eventually, with whatever space magic Jesus they decide to use, what better way to obfuscate that fact than tell people what they already have?

(Spoilers I guess) It would be like mentioning Gandalf may come back in The Two Towers. It wasn't hinted at, and was genuinely a surprise when he came back. If 343i was vague about Cortana's death, it wouldn't be much of a surprise if we saw her again. I'm not saying this is happening, or even necessarily likely, but it's a perfectly valid train of thought.

Of course my opinion isn't the definitive word on the matter. I never said it was. However that doesn't mean I can't provide counterpoints to other people's theories and speculation when I think they don't work. And I fully expect that people would do the exact same thing to me if I posted a theory to a forum for consideration.

Exactly, I think it's fine (and good even) to discuss different ideas and theories. I suppose my issue is you keep bringing up that such and such Dev said X and Y and that's the end of the story. The problem is they are TELLING a story, so there is no incentives for them to give it all away before we even get to play it.

 

[wesleyshark]

they are TELLING a story, so there is no incentives for them to give it all away before we even get to play it.

Exactly. Whether she comes back eventually or not, they are under no obligation to be upfront about it, and anything they say is within the confines of what we already know. They're not going to spoil story elements prior to when they have them planned to experienced first hand. And again, this isn't to say she is alive or dead. Either outcome is just as possible/plausible as the other at this point.

 

[Captain Zyrain]

We'll definitely get more information either way- though I suspect the true nature of why she's showing up will be a revelation saved for the end of the game or near the end.

It's a curious statement, as the only two incarnations we see of her at the end of Halo 5 is what's restraining the Didact and what protects Chief. If what protects Chief is only a small shard of her whole, the bulk of her is "down there". But where are they exactly?

Slipspace? Literally a hard light spehere? Some kind of fractcal/dimensional splice?

When she backs slowly away, it appears that Chief is moving almost in a transitional sense. We see debris start to flow in, and it continues to speed up until it is awash in bright blue light, not so dissimilar in color to the entering/exiting a slipspace stream. This may imply that he was taken, briefly, somewhere to be sheltered from the detonation. He then "pops" back in, at a fairly fast velocity, amidst the debris field.

Notice how she doesn't say that this was all that was left of her- she says that most of her is still in a place not where this scene takes place.

So... where.

I don't think we were ever shown if anything besides the Didact and composed 'souls' went through the Portal. I assume the Portal would be shut down as the ship broke apart, so some of it could have fallen through before being deactivated? Didn't see any wreckage on the Halo though I don't think.

It is weird, watching it again, how the little 'bubble' they are in behaves. As 117 detonates the bomb, WHITE SCREEN, then he's just standing in space (No debris visible in the background). Cortana is not accessible via his coms, just visually and audibility like a real person. She physically looks down and says "Most of me is down there" which implys they're somehow 'above' the ship/wreckage? As she fades into the wall, 117 is just standing there, and we see wreckage falling from ABOVE them with shaking, he looks UP, then quick cut to white again.

Next scene is 117 just floating in mostly stationary wreckage.

Hmmm. How whatever bubble was formed around him without also being around the bomb.. all in such a small time-frame? It seems like he got Star Trek teleported or something. As the lack of visible wreckage initially suggests he's been physically moved to a different place (or plane of existence!)

Exactly. Whether she comes back eventually or not, they are under no obligation to be upfront about it, and anything they say is within the confines of what we already know. They're not going to spoil story elements prior to when they have them planned to experienced first hand. And again, this isn't to say she is alive or dead. Either outcome is just as possible/plausible as the other at this point.

I suppose I'd even go so far as to say greenleafcm's ideas are more plausible than her being alive at this point, due to all the factors he's mentioned. I just don't think it precludes the idea of her being alive from also being a potential possibility.

 

[wesleyshark]

I don't think we were ever shown if anything besides the Didact and composed 'souls' went through the Portal. I assume the Portal would be shut down as the ship broke apart, so some of it could have fallen through before being deactivated? Didn't see any wreckage on the Halo though I don't think.

It is weird, watching it again, how the little 'bubble' they are in behaves. As 117 detonates the bomb, WHITE SCREEN, then he's just standing in space (No debris visible in the background). Cortana is not accessible via his coms, just visually and audibility like a real person. She physically looks down and says "Most of me is down there" which implys they're somehow 'above' the ship/wreckage? As she fades into the wall, 117 is just standing there, and we see wreckage falling from ABOVE them with shaking, he looks UP, then quick cut to white again.

Next scene is 117 just floating in mostly stationary wreckage.

Hmmm. How whatever bubble was formed around him without also being around the bomb.. all in such a small time-frame? It seems like he got Star Trek teleported or something. As the lack of visible wreckage initially suggests he's been physically moved to a different place (or plane of existence!)

It behaves like and looks akin to something entering and exiting slipspace. Couple that with her revealed ability to manipulate and manifest herself in hard-light and you have a fairly reasonable suggested answer as to how she may have saved him from the nuke.

 

[Fuchsdh]

Honestly I think it's a bad idea to read too much into it, because I think part of the "mystery" is just muddy visual storytelling on 343's part.

 

[watdaeff4]

RE: Cortana

I personally think she will return, not because of clues in the Lore/story, but due to one simple fact.

She is part of the new UI and also integrated into Window's phones/Windows 10.

IM*simpleton*O Microsoft won't let her stay 'dead' due to that.

 

[wesleyshark]

Honestly I think it's a bad idea to read too much into it, because I think part of the "mystery" is just muddy visual storytelling on 343's part.

Well that's no fun lol. I like to theorize. Halo gives me a wealth of information to dig into, and given how intricately woven a lot of it is, it makes for a great mental exercise.

 

[greenleafcm]

Well.. to be fair.. it doesn't have a 'death' or 'deactivation' date listed.

And Waypoint, Catalog, etc has always been replicating the time and knowledge of "current time" in the known Halo universe (which right now would be pre-Halo 5). Why would they give away a twist (if it exists) of Cortana NOT being dead, well before the game comes out? It wouldn't be a twist if they told us all about it before hand.

That's like mentioning in the opening credits that

Spoiler

Bruce Willis' character is already dead before Sixth Sense

.

Spoiler

The Rookie doesn't have a death date either in the top section of his page, but that doesn't contradict the information in the actual text of his biography explaining his ultimate fate.

Cortana's is the same way. And again, this still doesn't account for other printed materials like the official guidebooks that say the same. Are those not to be taken as venues for accurate information as well?

Spoiler

As I've put forth before, Iona not knowing the details of Cortana's ultimate fate doesn't mean anything when we, as out-of-universe observers, do have all the facts on hand and multiple clear confirmations that Cortana is indeed dead. I suspect that this line in the book could be a nod by Mr. O'Connor to fans who still suspect that Cortana somehow survived the events of 'Halo 4' in spite of all the evidence to the contrary.

Spoiler

Entirely possible, I am just pointing out it's a source of official, in-universe canon that states it's possible she's not dead. Again, as of that excerpt we don't know how much or little information she had/has access to. It's not a slam dunk either way, but it's an interesting point.

Spoiler

Except Iona's musings about what might have happened to Cortana, in reference to her own plight, do not reflect the facts - this is something she does not know the truth about, but we do. Her thoughts on whether or not Cortana is still alive does not make it an actual possibility that's on the table when we have multiple other confirmations that state it's not.

Again, there is no point in them spoiling what would be a big story point/twist before the game is even out. It's not "lying through their teeth", its setting the stage for the story. Obviously, when the game starts, Cortana isn't around, Chief IS dealing with loss, so are we, etc etc. None of that precludes her from coming back at some point. And if they do plan on bringing her back eventually, with whatever space magic Jesus they decide to use, what better way to obfuscate that fact than tell people what they already have?

(Spoilers I guess) It would be like mentioning Gandalf may come back in The Two Towers. It wasn't hinted at, and was genuinely a surprise when he came back. If 343i was vague about Cortana's death, it wouldn't be much of a surprise if we saw her again. I'm not saying this is happening, or even necessarily likely, but it's a perfectly valid train of thought.

Saying one thing with no hint of trying to trick people, leaving no room for confusion by being clear about one's intentions, and then doing the opposite usually constitutes lying. Again, they've openly detailed that Cortana is gone but her "lasting impact" will be acknowledged. How could that possibly be seen as an attempt to simply cover up a future plot twist? I suppose Mr. Holmes and Mr. Longo are just covering up the Flood being in 'Halo 5' as well when they openly stated they wouldn't be a factor in this game? Mr. O'Connor said they've been asked a lot about Cortana's ultimate fate, and he gave a perfectly direct answer. He's also said quite plainly here on NeoGaf that he doesn't mess around when making (serious) statements about Halo.

Except in between the publication of 'The Fellowship of the Ring' and 'The Two Towers', J.R.R. Tolkien didn't put out multiple factual guidebooks about the characters in his stories and their statuses, or make direct comments in interviews that Gandalf's legacy was to be acknowledged in the future as part of a theme about the acceptance of loss. The only thing that works in favor of a Cortana revival at this point is strictly the assumption that what we've been told about what happened to her isn't the whole truth - in spite of the fact that there's no real basis to justify such an assumption beyond wishful thinking.

Exactly, I think it's fine (and good even) to discuss different ideas and theories. I suppose my issue is you keep bringing up that such and such Dev said X and Y and that's the end of the story. The problem is they are TELLING a story, so there is no incentives for them to give it all away before we even get to play it.

And yet there are no incentives for them to put out completely false/misleading information in an attempt to "surprise" people either. If you want to continue to assume that everything that has been officially stated by both the developers themselves and the materials they release for publication is all just smoke-and-mirrors, I certainly can't stop you. All I can do is offer up evidence as to why I think such a prospect is highly unlikely.

 

[Captain Zyrain]

RE: Cortana

I personally think she will return, not because of clues in the Lore/story, but due to one simple fact.

She is part of the new UI and also integrated into Window's phones/Windows 10.

IM*simpleton*O Microsoft won't let her stay 'dead' due to that.

True! SEE! She lives! She's in my phone! 343i has been lying this whole time!

Spoiler

/s

But that does make a good point, unless they want to move the device Cortana away from the game Cortana, since it was an "in house" name that ended up sticking. I suppose I could see it being a case for them to leave her be ..

 

[Captain Zyrain]

Spoiler

The Rookie doesn't have a death date either in the top section of his page, but that doesn't contradict the information in the actual text of his biography explaining his ultimate fate.

Cortana's is the same way. And again, this still doesn't account for other printed materials like the official guidebooks that say the same. Are those not to be taken as venues for accurate information as well?

Well that's just sloppy!

I put the "" face next to that because it was mostly a joke. The only other AI in the (ridiculously incomplete) character section is Roland and he isn't dead yet, so I have no idea if they'd even put a deactivation or death on an AI character template. I'd lean against no, but you never know. I'm not in charge of Waypoint,

Spoiler

yet

.

Spoiler

Except Iona's musings about what might have happened to Cortana, in reference to her own plight, do not reflect the facts - this is something she does not know the truth about, but we do. Her thoughts on whether or not Cortana is still alive does not make it an actual possibility that's on the table when we have multiple other confirmations that state it's not.

Confirmations? Show me the body! Here you go again talking in absolutes. "X is Y because Z!" Except this isn't math, it's a made up, fictional universe, where anything can happen. Space magic, neural physics.. it's all possible.

So we're all on the same page, can you (not asking if you're able to, but I would like you to, for my edification) list the multiple confirmations? It's entirely possible I've missed some that you're thinking of. I wouldn't think her "not appearing" somewhere would count as a confirmation.

Saying one thing with no hint of trying to trick people, leaving no room for confusion by being clear about one's intentions, and then doing the opposite usually constitutes lying. Again, they've openly detailed that Cortana is gone but her "lasting impact" will be acknowledged. How could that possibly be seen as an attempt to simply cover up a future plot twist? I suppose Mr. Holmes and Mr. Longo are just covering up the Flood being in 'Halo 5' as well when they openly stated they wouldn't be a factor in this game? Mr. O'Connor said they've been asked a lot about Cortana's ultimate fate, and he gave a perfectly direct answer. He's also said quite plainly here on NeoGaf that he doesn't mess around when making (serious) statements about Halo.

If you can find a direct quote that says "Cortana is dead, and is never coming back" then, sure. I'll concede the point. Making Frankie can come save the day However, that is not the same as saying:

"Her fate is obviously very clear at the end of Halo 4. The story is really about, ‘What effect did Cortana’s sacrifice have on the Chief?’ So it’s not about the dreamlike figure that you see. It’s more about the memories and the long-lasting impact that she’s had on him. She has left an amazing legacy in the fiction, and we couldn’t make a game where we didn’t at least acknowledge that. There is more to the Chief’s story that people are going to find in Halo 5 that deals with how he copes with loss and how he deals with his memories."

As I mentioned previously, he says Halo 5. If she came back further down the road, would you accuse them of lying? Also: I love hearing Frankie say mammories.

Also, to follow up on your quote, Frankie said:

If I denied it and it later happened, then it changed. I would have been banned as a shill a long time ago. I have never knowingly lied on Halo gaf, ever. Ever.

So things can change. That's obvious. I've never said they're hiding the truth, or lying, or concealing anything in their interviews, I am just saying they are likely not telling the whole story, and why would they? The whole story is the whole reason we play through Halo 5. Going exactly off the worlds above, Halo 5 is about him dealing with the loss of Cortana. I absolutely believe that, and I don't expect to see her return in Halo 5. I do think it's entirely possible they find a way to bring her back in some shape or form sometime down the road. Whether that is through the domain, the Flood, another cloned brain.. it remains to be seen.

The only thing that works in favor of a Cortana revival at this point is strictly the assumption that what we've been told about what happened to her isn't the whole truth - in spite of the fact that there's no real basis to justify such an assumption beyond wishful thinking.

Isn't that all any of us are doing anyway? That's exactly the point. None of us have the Halo Bible (TM) in front of us, so we're all just discussing things and keeping our hype thrusters at maximum. I know for a fact that we don't know the whole truth regarding Cortana (How, Captain Zyrain, do you know this fact?) Because we've seen her ghost/silhouette/whatever in the trailer and that hasn't been explained yet, so there is more to the truth that we don't know. Whether that particular item ties into her coming back, doubtful, but we won't know until we play the game.

Personally, I think putting her, as she is, in the reveal trailers is a ploy to get people to think she's in the game. A lot more people see those trailers than read/watch a Gameinformer video. All those people are now thinking "Cortana is ALIVE?!" Is that deliberately misleading people who may not be on the up & up with all Halo 5 news? I think it's a good ploy, and I am anxious to see how it plays out in the game.

And yet there are no incentives for them to put out completely false/misleading information in an attempt to "surprise" people either. If you want to continue to assume that everything that has been officially stated by both the developers themselves and the materials they release for publication is all just smoke-and-mirrors, I certainly can't stop you. All I can do is offer up evidence as to why I think such a prospect is highly unlikely.

Alright!! We've whittled you down to "highly unlikely"! I am liking this progress


(Side note, wow I've gotten zero work done at work today!)

 

[Toa TAK]

So the general consensus on Hunters in the Dark was generally positive, right?

 

[wesleyshark]

So the general consensus on Hunters in the Dark was generally positive, right?

Generally, I'm not sure. I think a large lot of the usual folks here have yet to read it. I found it to be... Interesting. Others really liked it, and others did not at all.

On one hand, it presented a lot of new information and did offer some great world building, and snuck in a few hints as to what may be explored in Halo 5 or beyond. It also revisited places that we ventured about in during a Halo 3, which was cool. There's also a number of new characters that I'd definitely like to see again, both Human and Sanghelli alike.

On the other hand, the ending was... I dunno. I've said before that I need to read it again and wait for the context of Halo 5 before I can really put this novel into focus. There's a lot that happens but it's all very briskly paced so it's hard to discern what is relevant to the overall lore and what is just contained to that book itself.

I think that if the book was longer, and gave more page time to the different arcs that take place it would have felt meatier and more complete. It does a lot of jumping back and forth and recapping, which wasn't really necessary. But most of the characters are good additions, and it gives a sort of origin story for Olympia Vale (who is a total badass btw).

It was a very fast read, but I say it's worth a read, for sure.

(Side note, wow I've gotten zero work done at work today!)

This thread makes it a real struggle to get work done but I somehow have juggled both all week. There's not usually this much activity here all at once! Can't wait to have new stuff to dig into soon, though. It seems like we're going to get a lot of heavy lore nuggets in Halo 5.

 

[Captain Zyrain]

So the general consensus on Hunters in the Dark was generally positive, right?

Mostly what westleyshark said..

It wasn't BAD, it was very readable, and I enjoyed it overall. I suppose my biggest issue (and it's my issue not the books) was that I had super lofty expectations [think Silentium-level] that the book didn't really live up to.

It makes for a perfect 'prequel' to Halo 5 it seems, even though it takes place some years before the game. Pretty sure they did a good job though making sure none of the information in the book is crucial to understanding Halo 5, it will likely just color your perception of some of the characters.

The writing was OK, I felt that it vacillated between pretty good and just so-so on a regular basis.

If you like Halo and plan to play Halo 5 I would definitely recommend reading it, but maybe see if you can find it on sale.

 

[tiredheadcrab]

So has anyone watched this video at all? I am a little confused.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YklFMcZ0c6s

So basically the Librarian put seeds in the humans and that it was passed on all the way up to the master chief himself? It does explain the dialogue in Two Betrayals much better than 343 going rampant and such and would make for a nice twist. I thought though that all of humanity were the reclaimers according to bungie. Am i missing something?

 

[Captain Zyrain]

So has anyone watched this video at all? I am a little confused.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YklFMcZ0c6s

So basically the Librarian put seeds in the humans and that it was passed on all the way up to the master chief himself? It does explain the dialogue in Two Betrayals much better than 343 going rampant and such and would make for a nice twist. I thought though that all of humanity were the reclaimers according to bungie. Am i missing something?

HaloFollower Not the best person to take info from in my opinion.

But yes, you're basically right. The Librarian planned for an eventuality, where someone (not specifically Master Chief/etc) would help advance humankind, potentially getting them back to their pre-Forerunner war selves.

The only real info we know at this point is her tinkering was designed to end up with someone like Spartan-117 and even the AI Cortana. Whether previous jumps in human engineering were also part of this seed are unknown at this point, but plausible.

Whether or not JUST Spartan-117 is the reclaimer, or all humans are Reclaimers, or maybe just some of them isn't explicitly known yet. We've seen pretty much all humans operate or turn on/off Forerunner machinery (whereas aliens cannot), so that doesn't seem to be only tied to people with the Librarians seeds (geas).

For the most complete info, read the Forerunner trilogy by Greg Bear (or at least read the Wiki's) as that whole concept was mostly originated and expanded upon there.

 

[tiredheadcrab]

HaloFollower Not the best person to take info from in my opinion.

But yes, you're basically right. The Librarian planned for an eventuality, where someone (not specifically Master Chief/etc) would help advance humankind, potentially getting them back to their pre-Forerunner war selves.

The only real info we know at this point is her tinkering was designed to end up with someone like Spartan-117 and even the AI Cortana. Whether previous jumps in human engineering were also part of this seed are unknown at this point, but plausible.

Whether or not JUST Spartan-117 is the reclaimer, or all humans are Reclaimers, or maybe just some of them isn't explicitly known yet. We've seen pretty much all humans operate or turn on/off Forerunner machinery (whereas aliens cannot), so that doesn't seem to be only tied to people with the Librarians seeds (geas).

For the most complete info, read the Forerunner trilogy by Greg Bear (or at least read the Wiki's) as that whole concept was mostly originated and expanded upon there.

Well here is the thing though, I remember Stinkles on here saying that your friendly spartans could approach lets say a forerunner first before the Chief does and the forerunner will react differently asking where the reclaimer is. It was in that locked Halo thread about the story length recently. I will have to find it.

 

[Toa TAK]

Generally, I'm not sure. I think a large lot of the usual folks here have yet to read it. I found it to be... Interesting. Others really liked it, and others did not at all.

On one hand, it presented a lot of new information and did offer some great world building, and snuck in a few hints as to what may be explored in Halo 5 or beyond. It also revisited places that we ventured about in during a Halo 3, which was cool. There's also a number of new characters that I'd definitely like to see again, both Human and Sanghelli alike.

On the other hand, the ending was... I dunno. I've said before that I need to read it again and wait for the context of Halo 5 before I can really put this novel into focus. There's a lot that happens but it's all very briskly paced so it's hard to discern what is relevant to the overall lore and what is just contained to that book itself.

I think that if the book was longer, and gave more page time to the different arcs that take place it would have felt meatier and more complete. It does a lot of jumping back and forth and recapping, which wasn't really necessary. But most of the characters are good additions, and it gives a sort of origin story for Olympia Vale (who is a total badass btw).

It was a very fast read, but I say it's worth a read, for sure.

Mostly what westleyshark said..

It wasn't BAD, it was very readable, and I enjoyed it overall. I suppose my biggest issue (and it's my issue not the books) was that I had super lofty expectations [think Silentium-level] that the book didn't really live up to.

It makes for a perfect 'prequel' to Halo 5 it seems, even though it takes place some years before the game. Pretty sure they did a good job though making sure none of the information in the book is crucial to understanding Halo 5, it will likely just color your perception of some of the characters.

The writing was OK, I felt that it vacillated between pretty good and just so-so on a regular basis.

If you like Halo and plan to play Halo 5 I would definitely recommend reading it, but maybe see if you can find it on sale.

These seem to fit my expectations of the book, so I'll pick it up digitally. Need some more Halo reading during my breaks at work.

 

[Captain Zyrain]

Well here is the thing though, I remember Stinkles on here saying that your friendly spartans could approach lets say a forerunner first before the Chief does and the forerunner will react differently asking where the reclaimer is. It was in that locked Halo thread about the story length recently. I will have to find it.

Well, if you're talking about Blue Team in Halo 5, then yeah I would imagine there is some special "Space Jesus"' aspect to Master Chief that will lend itself to the story. He was 'upgraded' by the Librarian in Halo 4, so at this point in the story he is truly different from every other human alive (that we are aware of).

"The Master Chief is called, but you.. your passage is DENIED." - Warden Eternal, Halo 5.

I would guess this is due to whatever the Librarian did to him, but we can't be sure until the game comes out. Whether Spartan-117 made it to Requiem and met the Librarian because of who HE was or just because of plans set in motion long ago are somewhat up for debate.

Note that these changes would NOT have been in place in Halo 1-3, so those talks of "Reclaimer" are still open to interpretation.

Also note that in Contact Harvest the Covenant Luminaries were seeing humans and notating "Reclaimer" (not reclamation).

 

[tiredheadcrab]

Well, if you're talking about Blue Team in Halo 5, then yeah I would imagine there is some special "Space Jesus"' aspect to Master Chief that will lend itself to the story. He was 'upgraded' by the Librarian in Halo 4, so at this point in the story he is truly different from every other human alive (that we are aware of).

"The Master Chief is called, but you.. your passage is DENIED." - Warden Eternal, Halo 5.

I would guess this is due to whatever the Librarian did to him, but we can't be sure until the game comes out. Whether Spartan-117 made it to Requiem and met the Librarian because of who HE was or just because of plans set in motion long ago are somewhat up for debate.

Note that these changes would NOT have been in place in Halo 1-3, so those talks of "Reclaimer" are still open to interpretation.

Also note that in Contact Harvest the Covenant Luminaries were seeing humans and notating "Reclaimer" (not reclamation).

Ahh okay i see. So what Halo Follower said could be true. Its interesting to say the least. I think I will give the Forunner books a read. I havent read any of the books since First Strike which was very good.

 

[greenleafcm]

Confirmations? Show me the body! Here you go again talking in absolutes. "X is Y because Z!" Except this isn't math, it's a made up, fictional universe, where anything can happen. Space magic, neural physics.. it's all possible.

So we're all on the same page, can you (not asking if you're able to, but I would like you to, for my edification) list the multiple confirmations? It's entirely possible I've missed some that you're thinking of. I wouldn't think her "not appearing" somewhere would count as a confirmation.

The "this is sci-fi, anything is possible!" argument is what I always run in to every time I have this discussion with people...The thing is though, Halo as a fictional universe still operates by a set of canon rules that dictates to a point what is and isn't possible. And in regards to what we know about human-made AIs and how rampancy works, that makes the notion of Cortana's survival at the end of 'Halo 4' all but impossible (and that's not even counting the nuke destroying the Mantle's Approach while the majority of her data was still trapped inside the ship, the fact that AIs cannot survive in a fragmented state, and her getting a proper goodbye scene that completed her character arc). Yes, the writers could very well just "make something up" that breaks all these rules in order to bring Cortana back - but why should they? That's the real issue here. There's simply no legitimate reason for Cortana to return to the story (at least in the literal sense) when her death not only completed her personal story, but also set the stage for a major change in the Chief's story as well as he goes forward and continues to develop as a character alongside a group of new and old faces. Why mitigate her sacrifice to something that only serves to be a cheap vessel for some temporary drama with no lasting consequences?

The confirmations of Cortana's death that I've been talking about are all the things I've mentioned to you already: the 'Halo 4' epilogue, the 'Halo 4' guidebook, as well as the 'Essential Visual Guide', Cortana's official character biography on the main website, and Mr. O'Connor's most recent comments about her status in the fiction. All of which state in no uncertin terms that Cortana did indeed sacrifice her life at the end of 'Halo 4'. However since you seem determined to think that all of these things are not really accurate sources of information, perhaps we'll just have to agree to disagree on their validity.

If you can find a direct quote that says "Cortana is dead, and is never coming back" then, sure. I'll concede the point. Making Frankie can come save the day

As I mentioned previously, he says Halo 5. If she came back further down the road, would you accuse them of lying?

That quote from Mr. O'Connor is exactly what you're asking for though, just with more kind language in regards to Cortana's memory. You criticize me for supposedly speaking in absolutes, yet you refuse to acknowledge clear and direct statements made by the developers as being the truth just because it's not presented in the very specific words you're requiring. And yes, I would accuse them of lying if she inexplicably came back even after 'Halo 5'. Because for the past 3 years they've at no point entertained that this is even a remote possibility in any piece of official media or hinted that what we've seen and been told about Cortana's death is a misdirection of any kind.

Mr. O'Connor's comments also reference her fate, as in what happened to her at the end of 'Halo 4' (which again he says is obvious - i.e. not up for interpretation) and what her future in the story is going forward. When talking abut her he does not limit himself to the parameters of 'Halo 5'; he says that she is gone in no uncertain terms and references how even the fans needs to come to accept this loss, and mentions how they plan to acknowledge her "lasting impact". Hardly the terminology one uses to describe a character that is just going to make a resurgence later. Also it is only when talking about the Chief's reaction to her death does he reference the events and themes of 'Halo 5' specifically.

So things can change. That's obvious. I've never said they're hiding the truth, or lying, or concealing anything in their interviews, I am just saying they are likely not telling the whole story, and why would they? The whole story is the whole reason we play through Halo 5. Going exactly off the worlds above, Halo 5 is about him dealing with the loss of Cortana. I absolutely believe that, and I don't expect to see her return in Halo 5. I do think it's entirely possible they find a way to bring her back in some shape or form sometime down the road. Whether that is through the domain, the Flood, another cloned brain.. it remains to be seen.

Yes things like splitscreen are aspects that can change during the game development process. This is about the story though, something the developers already have a clear plan for going forward. So when they make statements about what happened to Cortana and how they plan to include her while also respecting her death, I'm inclined to believe that isn't something that is going to change so drastically down the line by bringing her back. This also still goes along with the fact that Mr. O'Connor's claims that he does not lie when making official comments about Halo. So when he says the finality of Cortana's death isn't something that is up for debate at this point, I have no reason to doubt that he is being anything but 100% honest.

Isn't that all any of us are doing anyway? That's exactly the point. None of us have the Halo Bible (TM) in front of us, so we're all just discussing things and keeping our hype thrusters at maximum. I know for a fact that we don't know the whole truth regarding Cortana (How, Captain Zyrain, do you know this fact?) Because we've seen her ghost/silhouette/whatever in the trailer and that hasn't been explained yet, so there is more to the truth that we don't know. Whether that particular item ties into her coming back, doubtful, but we won't know until we play the game.

One problem though...Mr. O'Connor already clarified that what the Chief is seeing in 'Halo 5' isn't really Cortana, and goes so far to clarify that the apparition's appearance has more to do with the Chief's own memories. So I would argue that we do still know for a fact what happened to the real Cortana, and that this apparition is something completely different - though it's true purpose does indeed remain to be seen.

Personally, I think putting her, as she is, in the reveal trailers is a ploy to get people to think she's in the game. A lot more people see those trailers than read/watch a Gameinformer video. All those people are now thinking "Cortana is ALIVE?!" Is that deliberately misleading people who may not be on the up & up with all Halo 5 news? I think it's a good ploy, and I am anxious to see how it plays out in the game.

Now this is something I do agree with you on...for the most part.
I don't doubt that putting her in the teaser videos so far was intended to ilicit an emotional reaction from fans of the character. However, the fact that they accompanied this reveal from the get-go with a clarification from Mr. O'Connor that this doesn't mean Cortana is alive in any capacity still maintains that they are being honest about her death. The folks at 343 Industries are not responsible for people's assumptions should they choose to not do any further research into what they think they saw in the trailer/vidocs. This logic can be applied to anything about Halo canon too. For instance, I've seen people who don't know anything about the EU speculate that Dr. Halsey is the Chief's biological mother; now, there is plenty of media available that completely refutes this idea if they took the time to look, but it isn't the job of the devs to hold everyone's hand in regards to thier understanding of the fiction. The best they can do is make clear explanations readily available - and in this case with Cortana's death and the nature of her role in 'Halo 5', they've done that. And even for those of us that know what Mr. O'Connor said about the true nature of this "ghost Cortana", it's still bound to be very interesting to find out what it really is.

 

[LordOfChaos]

Mostly what westleyshark said..

It wasn't BAD, it was very readable, and I enjoyed it overall. I suppose my biggest issue (and it's my issue not the books) was that I had super lofty expectations [think Silentium-level] that the book didn't really live up to.

Expecting Silentium level from anything short of Greg Bear announcing a post-Silentium trilogy or ancient humanity trilogy is just setting yourself up for disappointment

I agree though. It was closer to Broken Circle in quality. The Forerunner trilogy was just plain good hard-sci-fi that happened to be Halo. Books in the HitD league are, I think, more mass market, and expect you to think about them far less. They're where any teen yelling obscenities over XBL could pick them up and get them near in their entirety. Not bad, just not at the levels the Forerunner trilogy elevated Halo to.

 

[wesleyshark]

Expecting Silentium level from anything short of Greg Bear announcing a post-Silentium trilogy or ancient humanity trilogy is just setting yourself up for disappointment

I agree though. It was closer to Broken Circle in quality. The Forerunner trilogy was just plain good hard-sci-fi that happened to be Halo. Books in the HitD league are, I think, more mass market, and expect you to think about them far less. They're where any teen yelling obscenities over XBL could pick them up and get them near in their entirety. Not bad, just not at the levels the Forerunner trilogy elevated Halo to.

I really, really liked Broken Circle. I'm still on the fence for HitD.

But yeah... I made the same mistake... I expected Silentium-level of quality and it wasn't that... Which wasn't fair at all of me to do. That's what I plan to re-read it, before I truly form a solid opinion about it as a whole.

 

[Christof]

first post in lore thread. I'm trying to catch up on all the halo lore (since halo 3) to be ready for halo 5.

Right now I'm listening to books on tape for the kilo V series and im 25% through mortal dictata but its feeling like a real chore.

Does it pick up at all in the rest of it? Seem like I should stick with it because its going to have alot of stuff that's important to what happens in halo 4

 

[Captain Zyrain]

first post in lore thread. I'm trying to catch up on all the halo lore (since halo 3) to be ready for halo 5.

Right now I'm listening to books on tape for the kilo V series and im 25% through mortal dictata but its feeling like a real chore.

Does it pick up at all in the rest of it? Seem like I should stick with it because its going to have alot of stuff that's important to what happens in halo 4

The Kilo-5 Trilogy is kind of a love it or hate it series, it does establish the Halo 4 universe pretty well though, and I find it essential. Mortal Dictata is the last book though right? So you're almost there. The books do a better job (I think) portraying the Spartan-II program's flaws, which we get to see in more depraved depth in #HUNTtheTRUTH later on.

The Forerunner trilogy is probably even MORE important to Halo 4 AND Halo 5, as it sows the seeds (literally and metaphorically) for most future Halo content.

In between those two trilogies you should catch up on the one-off book (Broken Circle, Hunters in the Dark, and the comic series Halo: Escalation). There's a lot of content but most of it is pretty good.

 

[Captain Zyrain]

a very emphatic SNIP

Well, at this point we're clearly not going to see eye to eye (since you're wrong...

Spoiler

jk

).

I propose the only true solution! An avatar bet!

Should Cortana show up in Halo 5 in any meaningful way (outside of Ghost/Memory Cortana as already shown) OR the story ends with them searching for a way to bring her back, you have to change your avatar for 1 WEEK!

If she doesn't show up in Halo 5 (Outside previously mentioned Ghost/Memory Cortana) I have change my avatar for 1 WEEK!

I propose the changed avatars be at Stinklez choice.. but in absence of that we shall each choose the others avatar (nothing offensive, obviously).

What say ye?

 

[LordOfChaos]

Stinkles's writing is quite good! This is his first written work, is it not?

And thank you for heeding everyone's cries for more BB. Love that characters blend of devious craftiness combined with a soft heart. And it's certainly interesting, what he's working on...

 

[greenleafcm]

Well, at this point we're clearly not going to see eye to eye (since you're wrong...

Spoiler

jk

).

I propose the only true solution! An avatar bet!

Should Cortana show up in Halo 5 in any meaningful way (outside of Ghost/Memory Cortana as already shown) OR the story ends with them searching for a way to bring her back, you have to change your avatar for 1 WEEK!

If she doesn't show up in Halo 5 (Outside previously mentioned Ghost/Memory Cortana) I have change my avatar for 1 WEEK!

I propose the changed avatars be at Stinklez choice.. but in absence of that we shall each choose the others avatar (nothing offensive, obviously).

What say ye?

Lol. Fair enough. At any rate, thanks for the good discussion.

...Avatar bet, huh?

I mean, it might not effect me as much though. I lurk on these boards all the time to keep up with news and because I enjoy watching other people's discussions, but only comment when I know I can make good contributions or have a strong opinion about a debate topic. Hence why it seems like I "disappear" for extended periods.

There will probably be lots more good stuff to talk about after the game releases though. So sure, I'm game if that's what you'd like to do.

*internet handshake*

 

[Captain Zyrain]

Stinkles's writing is quite good! This is his first written work, is it not?

And thank you for heeding everyone's cries for more BB.

Midnight in the Heart of Midlothian says hi!

But it was a short story so you can be forgiven for missing it

I do like his writing style though, very easy to picture what he's describing.

There will probably be lots more good stuff to talk about after the game releases though. So sure, I'm game if that's what you'd like to do.

*internet handshake*

*internet handshake*

Maybe Frankie will grace us with a custom Mister Chief avatar for the bet

 

[greenleafcm]

first post in lore thread. I'm trying to catch up on all the halo lore (since halo 3) to be ready for halo 5.

Right now I'm listening to books on tape for the kilo V series and im 25% through mortal dictata but its feeling like a real chore.

Does it pick up at all in the rest of it? Seem like I should stick with it because its going to have alot of stuff that's important to what happens in halo 4

The Kilo-5 Trilogy is kind of a love it or hate it series, it does establish the Halo 4 universe pretty well though, and I find it essential. Mortal Dictata is the last book though right? So you're almost there. The books do a better job (I think) portraying the Spartan-II program's flaws, which we get to see in more depraved depth in #HUNTtheTRUTH later on.

The Forerunner trilogy is probably even MORE important to Halo 4 AND Halo 5, as it sows the seeds (literally and metaphorically) for most future Halo content.

In between those two trilogies you should catch up on the one-off book (Broken Circle, Hunters in the Dark, and the comic series Halo: Escalation). There's a lot of content but most of it is pretty good.

I definitely agree with the above comments about the Forerunner Saga. Though in regards to whether or not it "picks up", do you mean you're looking for more action/adventure type stuff (like the original Nylund books)? Because if that's the case I feel like I should mention that the Greg Bear novels are very heavy on philosophy and are more about intrigue and exploration. So just something to be aware of before you dive in to the "deep end" of Halo lore. They are incredible pieces of science-fiction literature though, and absolutely worth the read. It's just not the same kind of adventure you get when characters are running around and shooting guns and enemies and such.

 

[wesleyshark]

There's a reason why Greg Bear was offered the role to write that trilogy. If you've read some of his other work (which is amazing btw), it makes perfect sense. The guy knows scale. The guy knows philosphy. The guy knows how to write about horror without pandering to cheap shock values. He was the best pick for those books, and we got exactly what we should have.

Now, this kind of writing style and substance doesn't appeal to everyone, and that's fine! But hard sci-fi is a very legitimate genre, and the Forerunner Trilogy is very legitimate in its inspirations from hard sci-fi.

 

[greenleafcm]

There's a reason why Greg Bear was offered the role to write that trilogy. If you've read some of his other work (which is amazing btw), it makes perfect sense. The guy knows scale. The guy knows philosphy. The guy knows how to write about horror without pandering to cheap shock values. He was the best pick for those books, and we got exactly what we should have.

Now, this kind of writing style and substance doesn't appeal to everyone, and that's fine! But hard sci-fi is a very legitimate genre, and the Forerunner Trilogy is very legitimate in its inspirations from hard sci-fi.

Oh yeah, he was without a doubt the perfect choice to handle something as massive and important as the Forerunners, Flood, and Precursors. In fact I was actually visiting with family a few months ago and was able to have an in-depth conversation with my uncle (who is a fan of Greg Bear, and was reading 'Vitals' at the time) about why the Forerunner Saga was so great, and he definitely expressed interest in checking them out for himself. So it's really fun to be able to recommend these novels to people who just enjoy quality sci-fi literature and may not be drawn in to exploring the Halo Universe otherwise.

 

[wesleyshark]

Oh yeah, he was without a doubt the perfect choice to handle something as massive and important as the Forerunners, Flood, and Precursors. In fact I was actually visiting with family a few months ago and was able to have an in-depth conversation with my uncle (who is a fan of Greg Bear, and was reading 'Vitals' at the time) about why the Forerunner Saga was so great, and he definitely expressed interest in checking them out for himself. So it's really fun to be able to recommend these novels to people who just enjoy quality sci-fi literature and may not be drawn in to exploring the Halo Universe otherwise.

It was the perfect blend of intelligent hard sci-fi and Haloesque-style lore yarns. I hope we get more of those kinds of novels down the road. There's a lot of history left to unpack.

 

[WhiteRabbitEXE]

I got Cryptum and Primordium just after the latter had released, and they were actually my first Halo novels (since then I've gotten and read them all). Ever since I first got into Halo that was exactly the kind of material I wanted to see and I love what Bear did with the Forerunner lore. The whole trilogy was fantastic and I hope we see more stuff like it in the future.

Also, finally finished Hunters in the Dark. I thought it was pretty good. Not the best Halo novel, but definitely a worthwhile read. Really liked that

Spoiler

Usze and N'tho

were major characters. It was also fun finally "encountering" Blind Wolves after all these years (was going to spoiler that, then remembered they're on the cover lol). I still hope they show up in a game eventually though. Moa and Gúta were cool in Reach and I'd love to see more wildlife like that.

And one last thing: Anyone think the next time we see the Rubicon will be in-game, possibly even in Halo 5? Or do you think we're still a way's off from seeing that plot-line payoff?

 

[wesleyshark]

I got Cryptum and Primordium just after the latter had released, and they were actually my first Halo novels (since then I've gotten and read them all). Ever since I first got into Halo that was exactly the kind of material I wanted to see and I love what Bear did with the Forerunner lore. The whole trilogy was fantastic and I hope we see more stuff like it in the future.

Also, finally finished Hunters in the Dark. I thought it was pretty good. Not the best Halo novel, but definitely a worthwhile read. Really liked that

Spoiler

Usze and N'tho

were major characters. It was also fun finally "encountering" Blind Wolves after all these years (was going to spoiler that, then remembered they're on the cover lol). I still hope they show up in a game eventually though. Moa and Gúta were cool in Reach and I'd love to see more wildlife like that.

And one last thing: Anyone think the next time we see the Rubicon will be in-game, possibly even in Halo 5? Or do you think we're still a way's off from seeing that plot-line payoff?

Man- that's a high bar to come in on with the novels haha. The scale and the scope and the atmosphere that Bear can create through words is remarkable. It was the way that the Forerunner's histories deserved to be told.

- - -

Hunters in the Dark is a mixed affair, as has been dicussed above- but I agree totally about the characters, especially

Spoiler

Usze and N'tho

. I could see the blind wolves being a mid-level or multi-level adversary that would be a fun surprise and a break from the usual cannon fodder lol.

- - -

Rubicon: a bounding or limiting line; especially ne that when crossed commits a person irrevocably.

I've been wondering the same things about the Rubicon. There's some major plot yawns with what happened there (

Spoiler

aside from the Forerunner Trilogy being possible thanks to them finding the fragment of 343GS in the first place.

) I'd love to see it show up in-game, but I'd also think a novel about that adventure, or at least containing, would be cool as well.

Spoiler

I just want to know where he went and if he found whom he was looking for there.

Spoiler

"The single team that survived,' the monitor informed her, "returned to the Rubicon with an artifact- another powerful intelligence- and something that proved unforgiving to its entire crew. It took that ship far away from here, and abandoning this human to me. That is what your people do. They pledge loyalty and then they break it. And that is what they have done to you."

Spoiler

Curious about the part I put in bold- as I was re-reading that bit, the line stuck out to me. They returned to the Rubicon with an artifact, which was the fragment of 343GS, but the "and something" bit could imply they brought two things on board? Or perhaps it's just worded oddly, and he was merely referencing their level of ignorance in bringing such a powerful AI on board their ship.

Spoiler

“You and I are brothers in many ways, not least in that we faced the Didact before, and face him now, and perhaps ever after. This is combat eternal, enmity unslaked, unified by only one thing: our love for the elusive Lifeshaper. Without her, humans would have been extinguished many times over. Both I and the Didact love her to this day. Some say she is dead, that she died on Earth. But that is demonstrably untrue. One of you almost certainly carries Vinnevra and Riser’s old spirits within. Only the Lifeshaper can find them and coax my friends back to life. And after a hundred thousand years of exploration and study… I know where to find her.”

Spoiler

It's cool to see the disconnect here, even within such an advanced construct as 343GS. He's clearly speaking more so as Chakas than he is 343GS, and he thinks that the awakened geas within the modern humans, once they are found, will bring back Riser and Vinnevra- quite the contrary as this would awaken the long-dormant seeds of IsoDidact and Chant-To-Green, who are both direct splices of the UrDidact and the Librarian themsevles, and who are both still out there, somewhere beyond the spiral arms of our galaxy.

Curious as to where the Librarian has been in-hiding all of this time, or what 343GS will actually discover when he arrives at where she thinks she is.

Spoiler

And there might be another breadcrumb added via Saint's Testimony but I'm still holding back from reading any lengthy excerpts haha.