I dunno if his ideology is that fanatical, though. He starts from the position that humans are a threat, which is proven time and time again. They were the ones trying to destabilize his people. They were the ones who were attempting to cause widespread famine and death. He might have thrown his lot in with a bunch of religious zealots, but only to fight a war against a race that would mostly be happy to exterminate them as surely as the Covenant nearly did.
-
Hey, guest user. Hope you're enjoying NeoGAF! Have you considered registering for an account? Come join us and add your take to the daily discourse.
Halo Lore Thread
- Thread starter Korten
- Start date
I dunno if his ideology is that fanatical, though. He starts from the position that humans are a threat, which is proven time and time again. They were the ones trying to destabilize his people. They were the ones who were attempting to cause widespread famine and death. He might have thrown his lot in with a bunch of religious zealots, but only to fight a war against a race that would mostly be happy to exterminate them as surely as the Covenant nearly did.
Captain Zyrain
Member
The issue was they never really covered any of that in the game, so most people are just thinking he's a typical Covenant asshat. They didn't even really touch on it at all with the comics either.
From what we've seen of Halo 5, seems like they're just using Jul as a foil for the Arbiter. Would be interesting to see if (ONI) Locke captures him and turns him over to Arby.. and they have a fun chat.
wesleyshark
Banned
That's what I enjoy so much about Jul's character- he's deeply vexed over what's happened to the Covenant, and how easily his own kind has thrown in with humanity to come to peace, given that he's seen how back-handed humanity can actually be. The bulk of his experience with humanity has been mostly via ONI and the UNSC, so his confusion and ire are easily understandable. ONI says one thing, and does three others. There is no honor in this.
While the Arbiter has realized the value in unity, Jul is not so easily convinced, nor even close to being so.
He's fanatical in that he still clings to the old ways and the old conflicts. Perhaps, also because he's labaled a fantatical by default, in allying with actual zealots and religious extremists. He's more-or-less a Fake It to Make It poster child, though, haha.
Captain Zyrain
Member
Would be nice to see some sort of redemption story or something, but in the games he's just seen as a big bad guy, with no other motivation than being bad and gaining power.
I think 343i's aversion to "too more lore in games" could lead to a minimized role for Jul going forward, as you really need to have read the K5 books to know his story.
I hope Jul & Halsey can bitch about ONI for a time in Escalation before she goes back to the UNSC, would think it would make them understand each other a bit more.
GringoSuave89
Banned
I thought the Kilo Five books showed that Jul didn't believe in any of the Covenant religion, and basically just used it as a front for his own goals?
wesleyshark
Banned
Yes, they did. He's viewed as an extremeist through the eyes of other character though- and to players probably, as Spartan Ops and Escalation don't go into his using of the fanatical ranks to suit his own goals.
A lot, or most, of the Spartan-II's and III's probably are, as a result of supressed sexuality due to their augmentations at early ages.
LordOfChaos
Member
Thinking of him as the 46 year old virgin just ruined Halo for me. Thanks, jerk!
But yeah, I think it was an unintentional side effect (whether or not they found it beneficial later, as they probably would have, being what Spartans are), but the augmentations suppressed sex drive. At least one spartan did want to start a family though, I'm not sure how close to canon 343 is holding that piece of lore though.
Captain Zyrain
Member
Randall-037 says "hellloooooooo!"
Granted he had most of his augmentations removed.. but that was after he had a daughter.. so.. humm. That was all 343i though.
I do think they said somewhere that the effect wasn't universal or the same for everyone. SII's likely felt that all the other SII's were more like brothers and sisters, and since that's almost exclusively who they interacted with on a daily basis it likely wouldn't lend itself to much sexytime.
wesleyshark
Banned
Their sex drive wasn't killed- it was suppressed.
The Spartan sex drive thing has always been one of those things I think fans blew up, because as far as I know the only original mention was just the list of possible side effects to augmentation procedures in The Fall of Reach. Somehow people went from that to "Spartans are sterile!"
With that said, Maria actually being given leave to retire still is one of those plot points that should never have existed, right up there with Black Team's liaisons and the other Spartans beating the eye out of one of them. None of that jives with anything we've known before or since about how the UNSC or Spartans operated.
With that said, Maria actually being given leave to retire still is one of those plot points that should never have existed, right up there with Black Team's liaisons and the other Spartans beating the eye out of one of them. None of that jives with anything we've known before or since about how the UNSC or Spartans operated.
LordOfChaos
Member
Makes sense. Some books on evolutionary biology I read said that it's who you grow up with at least as much as who you share genes with that turns on the "sibling, don't want sex" response. They were all abducted as kids, spent a lot of time together, and were augmented around puberty together, so their sex drives would have discounted each other as more like siblings, even without the augmentations further dampening their sexy feels. Spending little time with civvies probably accounts for the rest.
So basically, they can still get it on. The question is, who could survive being pounded by a spartan?
wesleyshark
Banned
I can't even imagine the nuclear fallout such a thing would cause, especially here on GAF.
wesleyshark
Banned
From what we've seen (so far), I think Palmer has been given a mini-revamp of character going into Halo 5.
I don't really think she's been given any reorientation; I think she's just been better-written, honestly.
Captain Zyrain
Member
She's definitely been given some humble pie after losing Halsey twice.
WhiteRabbitEXE
Member
Outside of people who put waaaaay too much into the "thought you'd be taller" quip, most of the hate towards Palmer comes from the fact that Spartan Ops, particularly the missions themselves, were, let's say, not very well written. As a character she's a little brash, but overall not inherently unlikeable.
Well, that's where I always say "there are no bad characters, only badly-written ones." It's fairly clear that they were pushing Palmer to be the second-string playable character. Then fans freaked out because Spartan Ops had issues, people in the universe were reacting negatively to Halsey, and honestly? I think some of it came down to Palmer being a brash woman, and threatening to replace the guy we loved. With Initiation and Spartan Assault came the charges that 343 was shoving Palmer "down our throats". And so Lo, Johnson v2.0 was born in the form of Locke, who I'm guessing will probably replace most of Palmer's role going forward.
I completely understand some of the backlash to Palmer, I just think it's misdirected and takes things a little too "personal"or as personal as you can get when you're talking about a fictional universe. I mean, yeah, it was weird that no one in the mission "Infinity" really stopped and reacted like you'd expect to seeing the greatest hero of your lifetime back from the dead, but it's also not Palmer's place or character to react that way. Yeah, Palmer could have used a thesaurus in Spartan Ops, but it wouldn't have been near as much of an issue had the mission objectives actually been varied.
wesleyshark
Banned
It seemed like she was going to be a major player in subsequent games... I was actually looking forward to it, but I can't against Spartan Ops being dry... It was super dry. The cutscenes were damn good, but the actual gameplay got stale pretty quickly. Her character suffered from that, as well as misplaced backlash in thinking she was going to replace Chief for some reason.
I'm glad to see she's back in Halo 5, but I hope she's been given better lines and meatier things to do of relevancy. I think maybe part of my liking of Palmer is less of her actual character and is more based on her voice actress, as I'm a fairly big fan of Jennifer Hale's work (femshep hello 👋.
I can understand the dislike for her, for sure. Won't fault anyone for it.
I'm glad to see she's back in Halo 5, but I hope she's been given better lines and meatier things to do of relevancy. I think maybe part of my liking of Palmer is less of her actual character and is more based on her voice actress, as I'm a fairly big fan of Jennifer Hale's work (femshep hello 👋
.I can understand the dislike for her, for sure. Won't fault anyone for it.
The Arena allows UNSC forces to simulate combat at a large scale and develop winning strategies for any kind of infantry assault.
There, now it's lore.
Captain Zyrain
Member
Can't wait to see the House of Vadam's version of The Arena!
That has to be a thing.. right? Right. Of course! Would be awesome to play some 4v4 Sanghelli arena-style action.
Just think of the cool levels.. Sorry, daydreaming.
Can't wait to see the House of Vadam's version of The Arena!
That has to be a thing.. right? Right. Of course! Would be awesome to play some 4v4 Sanghelli arena-style action.
Just think of the cool levels.. Sorry, daydreaming.
No need for holograms. The Elites just literally kill each other off.
Captain Zyrain
Member
Sounds like fun
Halo: Fleet Battles - The Fall of Reach is out now
http://shop.spartangames.co.uk/ProductDetails.asp?ProductCode=HFBB01
£80.00 or around $125 USD.. a little rich for my blood at the moment, but looks fun.
Ozzy Onya A2Z
Member
Sounds like fun
Halo: Fleet Battles - The Fall of Reach is out now
http://shop.spartangames.co.uk/ProductDetails.asp?ProductCode=HFBB01
£80.00 or around $125 USD.. a little rich for my blood at the moment, but looks fun.
Being sold by Spartan Games, LOL. Do want.
WhiteRabbitEXE
Member
Speaking of Elites fighting, 343i really needs have playable Floatfighting in a future Halo game.
Maybe as a mode in the stand-alone expansion Halo 5: Sangheili Commandos.
Floatfighting is important to the story of Broken Circle - LORE
Maybe as a mode in the stand-alone expansion Halo 5: Sangheili Commandos.
Blue Ninja
Member
The Prophets and the Elites encountered eachother and started a war. The Prophets used Forerunner relics, which the Elites felt was heresy. Elites had the numbers but the Prophets managed to fight them to a standstill: both sides then signed the Writ of Union and the Covenant was formed.
The Covenant basically misinterpreted its findings. It believes that the Forerunners ascended to Godhood by activating the Halo rings. They believe the Forerunners left the rings behind so their subjects could then follow them on the Great Journey. They conquered other species and forced their religious views upon them, all the while looking for relics that could ultimately lead them to find and activate a Halo.
When the Covenant leadership discovers humanity was chosen as the Forerunner's successor, and thus basically represent what's left of the Forerunners in the galaxy, they realize it could tear the Covenant asunder in civil war. So they decide to wipe out humanity instead.
That's it in a nutshell, really.
Thanks a lot! I actually asked this because a friend asked me while we were doing Halo CE co op and I couldn't answer him. I'm on Fall of Reach, hopefully this is expanded in other books.
FUBAR McDangles
Member
Yeah all of that is primarily covered in Contact Harvest (Joseph Staten) and Broken Circle (John Shirley).
wesleyshark
Banned
Both of which are worth the read! Especially Broken Circle.
WhiteRabbitEXE
Member
So Saint's Testimony unlocked for me a few minutes ago. Boo ya, let's do this.
soulassssns
Banned
Same here. I havent started reading it yet though.
WhiteRabbitEXE
Member
Aaaaand done.
Did not expect that ending.
Captain Zyrain
Member
Loved it.
The leaked excerpt was the whole thing, I loved it then, I love it now.
Paid my blood money as well
Good work Stinklez!
The leaked excerpt was the whole thing, I loved it then, I love it now.
Paid my blood money as well
Good work Stinklez!
Moa
Member
Where can I pick it up from?
Captain Zyrain
Member
http://www.amazon.com/dp/B00V3L92CM/?tag=neogaf0e-20
Amazon.. Or other fine digital book retailers I imagine.
Moa
Member
WhiteRabbitEXE
Member
Loved it.
The leaked excerpt was the whole thing, I loved it then, I love it now.
Paid my blood money as well
Good work Stinklez!
I stayed away from it at the time to avoid spoilers. Didn't realize it was the whole thing haha.
Yeah, I got my copy through Apple iBooks.
Why/how was Jorge-052 from the Spartan IIs on Noble Team, and never acknowledged in the novels or games as missing from the original 33 Spartans gathered at Reach (excluding the four from Black Team and three from Gray Team)?
There's no mention of him being among the dozen who survived the experiments but were disfigured physically - and I'm aware a few Spartan-II characters in the later books (which I haven't read) were among those dozen who later recovered due to advancements in medical technology and were re-deployed without the knowledge of the main group.
There's also no mention of him going mysteriously M.I.A. during the training years to get him away from the main group in a convert role, similar to Kurt.
Is there a decent canon explanation or hint of how he was separated from his fellow Spartans, or did Bungie just say "yeah, whatever, we need a random Spartan-II on the team"?
There's no mention of him being among the dozen who survived the experiments but were disfigured physically - and I'm aware a few Spartan-II characters in the later books (which I haven't read) were among those dozen who later recovered due to advancements in medical technology and were re-deployed without the knowledge of the main group.
There's also no mention of him going mysteriously M.I.A. during the training years to get him away from the main group in a convert role, similar to Kurt.
Is there a decent canon explanation or hint of how he was separated from his fellow Spartans, or did Bungie just say "yeah, whatever, we need a random Spartan-II on the team"?
WhiteRabbitEXE
Member
As far as I'm aware there are no real concrete details surrounding Jorge's move to Noble team. We do know though that Kat was one of the original members of NOBLE Team, and she left Beta Company after Operation: CARTWHEEL on May 30, 2545. So Jorge wouldn't have joined NOBLE until some point in 2545 at the very earliest, if not later. That's a big difference from 2531/2532 when Kurt and Randall respectively went M.I.A., and Jorge being reassigned at that point wouldn't be as much of a point of interest as a couple Spartans going missing outright so early on.
SmartWaffles
Member
Just keep in mind the Reach game itself is a massive retconn, a lot of the story bits that differentiates from the novel was never explained. We might be able to see how 343 handles that in the upcoming Fall of Reach animated series.
This. I'm not sure who wrote Reach but boy did they not even bother to look at source material.